Price Difference - Why? (1ct G VS2/VS1)

[Dan__2]

Hi all,

I posted a thread last week and massively appreciate the advice. The past few days spent thinking I've decided to increase my budget a little (this forum is dangerous!).

Can anyone help me understand the price difference between the two stones below. It seems a big difference for only a marginal increase in weight and VS1 vs VS2 clarity. Maybe the comments regarding clouds/surface graining? Or is the cut more ideal on the 2nd stone?

Diamond | 1.022 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4406923

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.022 carat G color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4406923

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.033 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4455683

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.033 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4455683

www.whiteflash.com

 

[DejaWiz]

Both are cut to extremely strict ACA criteria and human vetting, so you can rule out one being cut better than the other.

Looking at the stock numbers, the reason may be because the VS1 could have entered inventory more recently, thus cost more to procure with the ongoing price increases.
The clarity difference plays a role for sure, but I feel that the time that the diamonds were procured and priced for retail sale may be a factor...but that largely depends on how often WF adjusts their retail price tags in the face of constant changing market conditions.

 

[kenny]

Good points from DejaWiz.

Also perhaps the VS2 is (understandably) slightly less eye-clean - though I think you'd have to be an adolescent eagle to detect the difference without a loupe.
Whiteflash's macrophotography is excellent, and we are seeing the diamonds greatly enlarged.
When a perhaps-noticeable inclusion is under the table it impacts the clarity grade more than if it were near the edge.

Disclaimer: It's possible the white thing we see at 3:00 in the VS2 is just a spec of dust on the table.
It is notoriously difficult to keep a diamond perfectly clean, especially at this magnification.

 

[Dan__2]

Both are cut to extremely strict ACA criteria and human vetting, so you can rule out one being cut better than the other.

Looking at the stock numbers, the reason may be because the VS1 could have entered inventory more recently, thus cost more to procure with the ongoing price increases.
The clarity difference plays a role for sure, but I feel that the time that the diamonds were procured and priced for retail sale may be a factor...but that largely depends on how often WF adjusts their retail price tags in the face of constant changing market conditions.

Thank you. From memory, you had actually recommended the 1.022ct early in the previous thread.

I presume the clouds/surface graining is not usually something to be concerned with?

Some one at White Flash has been very eager to help. Would these points be worth checking - I guess there's Limited to no impact on light performance given the ASET.

Finally, that strong yellowish tint at around 7 o'clock on the VS2 is I'm guessing most likely camera angle?

 

[marymm]

Looking at all of Whiteflash's G VS2 and VS1 diamonds between 1.0-1.05 carats, it seems that the two VS1 ACAs (1.013ct and 1.033ct) are priced $10,8XX as compared to the VS2 diamonds, which WF has priced at $9,250 for the one 1.022ct ACA and at $9,655 for the three 1.030ct ACAs --- so yes, WF is pricing the VS1s appreciably higher.

Did you already rule out the 1.024ct G-SI1 ACA, price at $8,353 ... usually twinning wisp inclusions are not readily eye visible ... if you have time and inclination, I'd suggest buying that one and checking it out in person

 

[DejaWiz]

6.77mm spread at about the same price as the smaller G VS1 with about a 6.5mm spread...this increase will be discernable.
Looking at the side profile in the brilliance video, there is very little tint depicted, which could mean quite a bargain.
No wrong answer here...go with whichever one calls out to you most.

Diamond | 1.173 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4406919

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.173 carat G color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4406919

www.whiteflash.com

 

[kenny]

Maybe @Texas Leaguer from Whiteflash cares to comment.

 

[Dan__2]

Looking at all of Whiteflash's G VS2 and VS1 diamonds between 1.0-1.05 carats, it seems that the two VS1 ACAs (1.013ct and 1.033ct) are priced $10,8XX as compared to the VS2 diamonds, which WF has priced at $9,250 for the one 1.022ct ACA and at $9,655 for the three 1.030ct ACAs --- so yes, WF is pricing the VS1s appreciably higher.

Did you already rule out the 1.024ct G-SI1 ACA, price at $8,353 ... usually twinning wisp inclusions are not readily eye visible ... if you have time and inclination, I'd suggest buying that one and checking it out in person

Thanks for the sense check.

I did see that one. I'm a just a bit hesitant to order something more likely to require checking just to avoid the 'fun' I'm currently experiencing exporting back to the US & more so claiming back custom charges.

 

[Dan__2]

6.77mm spread at about the same price as the smaller G VS1 with about a 6.5mm spread...this increase will be discernable.
Looking at the side profile in the brilliance video, there is very little tint depicted, which could mean quite a bargain.
No wrong answer here...go with whichever one calls out to you most.

Diamond | 1.173 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4406919

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.173 carat G color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4406919

www.whiteflash.com

Very interesting too.

The busy clarity plot scares me a bit, particularly on the table, but probably just me not knowing what to look for. Is it fair to say this could be borderline VS2/SI1?

 

[peterpan112]

This is not related to your question, but I was interested in the G VS1 diamond you linked as well, and WF sent me a video of the actual diamond compared with two others (D & F color). Hope this is helpful in your decision making.

 

[DejaWiz]

Very interesting too.

The busy clarity plot scares me a bit, particularly on the table, but probably just me not knowing what to look for. Is it fair to say this could be borderline VS2/SI1?

Go with the VS1...you will have that peace of mind from day one.

Unless you feel you'd be ok with a slightly wispy SI1 that has a fairly clean table.

Diamond | 1.233 ct F SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4430028

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.233 carat F color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4430028

www.whiteflash.com

 

[peterpan112]

Go with the VS1...you will have that peace of mind from day one.

I agree!

 

[marymm]

Hadn't realized you are overseas --- then I recommend this 0.956ct H-VS1 ACA priced at $8156 -- faces up 6.32mm -- lovely diamond, completely totally clean and stellar performance -- https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4476790.htm -- this ACA is in keeping with your original budget, still larger than the one you originally bought, larger than her friends (even if she is unlikely to compare) and you say she is very petite -- sometimes bigger is just more dollars and not actually better per se -- in the end, whatever ACA you pick out will be a stunning diamond -- good luck to you and your GF!

 

[Kim N]

If you were in the US, I would have recommended going for the cheaper one, but since you're in the UK, I agree with the others on going for the safe choice.

This one looks to be a cleaner VS2 to my eye.

Diamond | 1.030 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4460748

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.030 carat G color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4460748

www.whiteflash.com

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Maybe @Texas Leaguer from Whiteflash cares to comment.

Hi Kenny,
Thanks for the call out. It is generally frowned upon for vendors to be commenting on their own stones. But I can say this about pricing in general- it is not an exact science! (especially in a volatile market). But VS1 in certain size and color combinations can be significantly higher than VS2.

As @DejaWiz suggests, the time at which a diamond comes into stock sometimes can have an impact on pricing, though we attempt to normalize prices across our entire inventory based upon current market realities. Obviously if prices are too high, the diamonds will not sell. But prices that are too low will also give customers pause! Prices need to make sense to rational shoppers in order for them to have confidence in their choices. Since price adjustments are not automated and do not happen on a continual basis, sometimes anomalies exist.

Hope that is helpful!

 

[Dan__2]

Thank you all. I'm closing in on a stone now thank goodness.

I'm absolutely certain I'll be purchasing from WF. Along with here, I've found them really helpful.

A final question, the H VS1 below is in my final shortlist. I know the cut is fantastic (ACA), but need to convince myself of H being acceptable (lots of sellers here recommended sticking with G or above).

Diamond | 1.092 ct H VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4445435

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.092 carat H color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4445435

www.whiteflash.com

I am however intrigued from experts here. Would you personally slightly lean towards the G VS1 for the smaller table / higher crown?

 

[caolsen]

Good points from DejaWiz.

Also perhaps the VS2 is (understandably) slightly less eye-clean - though I think you'd have to be an adolescent eagle to detect the difference without a loupe.
Whiteflash's macrophotography is excellent, and we are seeing the diamonds greatly enlarged.
When a perhaps-noticeable inclusion is under the table it impacts the clarity grade more than if it were near the edge.

Disclaimer: It's possible the white thing we see at 3:00 in the VS2 is just a spec of dust on the table.
It is notoriously difficult to keep a diamond perfectly clean, especially at this magnification.

I would agree, and add the caveat about dust, but there is something between 8-9 o’clock near the girdle on the VS2. Now, normal humans won’t see that. That said, I like the VS2 but we’re talking opinions here - both stones are superbly cut

 

[Kim N]

Thank you all. I'm closing in on a stone now thank goodness.

I'm absolutely certain I'll be purchasing from WF. Along with here, I've found them really helpful.

A final question, the H VS1 below is in my final shortlist. I know the cut is fantastic (ACA), but need to convince myself of H being acceptable (lots of sellers here recommended sticking with G or above).

Diamond | 1.092 ct H VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4445435

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.092 carat H color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4445435

www.whiteflash.com

I am however intrigued from experts here. Would you personally slightly lean towards the G VS1 for the smaller table / higher crown?

I think you'd be hard-pressed to see the difference in table and crown with the naked eye, so I would save the money and get the H.

As for G vs. H, can you ask WF for side-by-side photos of the two stones to compare the color for yourself? At this size, I personally would get the H without hesitation, but you have to be comfortable with it.

 

[Dan__2]

I think you'd be hard-pressed to see the difference in table and crown with the naked eye, so I would save the money and get the H.

As for G vs. H, can you ask WF for side-by-side photos of the two stones to compare the color for yourself? At this size, I personally would get the H without hesitation, but you have to be comfortable with it.

Thanks, that provides some comfort.

I received this photo earlier.

Along with:

 

[Kim N]

Thanks, that provides some comfort.

I received this photo earlier.

Along with:

How do you feel about the color after seeing the photo/video?

 

[Dan__2]

How do you feel about the color after seeing the photo/video?

In the video I struggle to see any difference.

Unsurprisingly the side view photo I do quite clearly (but may be due to the F). Honestly I think it's just largely in my mind that I should not be going to a H...

 

[rainydaze]

In the video I struggle to see any difference.

Unsurprisingly the side view photo I do quite clearly (but may be due to the F). Honestly I think it's just largely in my mind that I should not be going to a H...

That right there is good enough reason, IMO... being mind-clean can play into how much one enjoys a diamond.

H isn't mind-clean for me, bc I know if and when I detect the hint (which I don't personally love until I get to K and lower), I won't be able to put it out of mind. I will be side-eying the diamond hoping not to see it, instead of gazing adoringly and enjoying it unencumbered. G/VS1 has turned out to be my sweet spot, as I have four G/VS1s (three are WF).... along with a two Ds, one E, and one H (this is a specialty cut and while I see the tint and don't love it, in this particular piece it does not bother me). I tried to talk myself into a J once, and the jeweler said to me, you are a high-color girl. I tried to deny it, but he was right. My reactions to all previous diamonds informed him, along with his experience. He recognized it long before I did. It's just what my eyes love. I say that to suggest that you don't dismiss that voice hesitating over the H, out-of-hand.

 

[Bonfire]

Good advice @rainydaze. @Dan__2 Great video comparison! Don’t talk yourself into or out of what your preferences are. Go with what your eyes and your mind will be happiest with.

 

[lovedogs]

Good advice @rainydaze. @Dan__2 Great video comparison! Don’t talk yourself into or out of what your preferences are. Go with what your eyes and your mind will be happiest with.

Agree completely. Let your eyes decide.

 

[kenny]

...

In the video I struggle to see any difference.

Unsurprisingly the side view photo I do quite clearly (but may be due to the F). Honestly I think it's just largely in my mind that I should not be going to a H...

Excellent observation.

When you only see a difference in a good honestly-made side-by-side video, you WON'T see the difference when the stone is alone.
When you're not sure whether you see the difference, it's easy to argue with going with the more-affordable stone.

Butt ... and it's a big Butt.
For some people other things are important besides what their eyes can see.
Some just want a D IF stone, or a G stone etc.
Why?
They just want it because they just want it.

That's the mind-clean thing, and it's no crime.
What's right for one person is wrong for another.
People just vary.

 

[daisygrl]

I would agree, and add the caveat about dust, but there is something between 8-9 o’clock near the girdle on the VS2. Now, normal humans won’t see that. That said, I like the VS2 but we’re talking opinions here - both stones are superbly cut

The circled part might just be a reflection from the crystal on the right.

 

[kenny]

The circled part might just be a reflection from the crystal on the right.

True, that can and does happen.

But, here's a question for those who really know GIA grading ...

Here's a hypothetical, impossible in the real world, but that's not the point:
Let's say two diamonds, A and B, identical in every way; miraculously they even have one identical crystal inclusion
It's just in a different location within each diamond.

Viewed face up, the position of the crystal in A results in it being visible in only once.
In diamond B the same single crystal is visible in several place because of more reflections from its location within the diamond.

Would GIA give them the same clarity grade?
Would the vendor price it based on the grade only, or take into account how many times you can see the same crystal when viewed from the top?

IOW does GIA grade clarity based on the inclusion number itself, or how many times it appears?

 

[daisygrl]

True, that can and does happen.

But, here's a question for those who really know GIA grading ...

Here's a hypothetical, impossible in the real world, but that's not the point:
Let's say two diamonds, A and B, identical in every way; miraculously they even have one identical crystal inclusion
It's just in a different location within each diamond.

Viewed face up, the position of the crystal in A results in it being visible in only once.
In diamond B the same single crystal is visible in several place because of more reflections from its location within the diamond.

Would GIA give them the same clarity grade?
Would the vendor price it based on the grade only, or take into account how many times you can see the same crystal when viewed from the top?

IOW does GIA grade clarity based on the inclusion number itself, or how many times it appears?

I had the same question while back and the general answer is that GIA grades diamonds based on the numbers, visibility, and the size of crystals. Grading is not generally based on crystal mirroring. To answer your hypothetical question, if both diamonds had just one crystal but diamond B's crystal would be mirroring resulting in multiple reflections of a said crystal, the clarity grade would remain the same. I am not an expert but I have encountered this situation about a year ago and did an extensive research on it. However, if someone has a different experience, I would like to hear it.

 

[Dan__2]

True, that can and does happen.

But, here's a question for those who really know GIA grading ...

Here's a hypothetical, impossible in the real world, but that's not the point:
Let's say two diamonds, A and B, identical in every way; miraculously they even have one identical crystal inclusion
It's just in a different location within each diamond.

Viewed face up, the position of the crystal in A results in it being visible in only once.
In diamond B the same single crystal is visible in several place because of more reflections from its location within the diamond.

Would GIA give them the same clarity grade?
Would the vendor price it based on the grade only, or take into account how many times you can see the same crystal when viewed from the top?

IOW does GIA grade clarity based on the inclusion number itself, or how many times it appears?

Really interesting - I'll leave answers to the knowledgeable!

Out of interest...The below was a stone that caught my attention. It looks like there are inclusions at around 9 o'clock (although I suspect being VS1 this is very difficult to see in person without a loupe). However, the clarity plot doesn't to me obviously show any inclusions around that area. Are these likely reflections of the inclusions in the table?

Diamond | 1.13 ct F VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4355239

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.13 carat F color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4355239

www.whiteflash.com

 

[DejaWiz]

Really interesting - I'll leave answers to the knowledgeable!

Out of interest...The below was a stone that caught my attention. It looks like there are inclusions at around 9 o'clock (although I suspect being VS1 this is very difficult to see in person without a loupe). However, the clarity plot doesn't to me obviously show any inclusions around that area. Are these likely reflections of the inclusions in the table?

Diamond | 1.13 ct F VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4355239

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.13 carat F color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4355239

www.whiteflash.com

That's a beautiful GIA 3X diamond!

Likely that what you are seeing is the reflections.