President McCain

[movie zombie]

i am neither a Rep or a Dem.........

after a lot of research re the man, i can honestly say that mccain scares me: economics, world politics, US Constitutional rights, iraq, you name it. its his position on these issues and the advisors he surrounds himself with that causes me concern.....not his age.

movie zombie

ps re the pants issue: the man has a reputation for behaviors not unlike that of others that have occupied the white house.

 

[somethingshiny]

Date: 6/6/2008 10:18:14 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady

Date: 6/5/2008 9:30:00 PM

Author: diamondseeker2006

I had a feeling it would be impossible for there to be a conservative thread on here, and I was right!

Uh, I second this. And while I don''t support Obama, I''m not into slamming HIM without some background on what I''ve had to say. I am a proud conservative Republican and while I do NOT agree with McCain on a great many things, I dont support Obama for even more.


If you''re going to make comments about the Republicans or the party or its politicians, keep in mind there are Republicans on this thread as well. I don''t agree with everything my party has done, but there are a great many things the Dems have done that are equally shameful.

Thanks for this SDL. And, it''s because of the tone of this thread already that I won''t comment. I am a Republican and a McCain supporter. But, I won''t allow myself to be brought in under these conditions.

Really, if you want to KNOW something, something TRULY important, WHY would anyone with that info want to post after this crap?!

 

[ksinger]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:09:37 AM
Author: miraclesrule
I''m not a Republican or a Democrat. I don''t particularly like labels anyway. They tend to pigeonhole people into a stereotype that is misleading. (Why do they use the word pigeonhole?) I for one, LOVED Ron Paul. Again, it''s too bad that Americans, and many humans, feel the need to belong to what is really nothing more than a GANG!! Democrats are a GANG, Republicans are a GANG, and so forth.....

I for one, am committed to dismantling gang psychology in it''s formative stages.

But the reality is...that''s not the world we live in...YET!

However, back to McCain. My thoughts (as I try to keep feeling and emotion out of it...but I am human after all), are a lot like they were about John Kerry and Al Gore and George Bush. Is this really the best we have to offer?

I can''t help but wonder whether the American Presidency has been reduced to the level of ''Who is brave enough, dumb enough, pretty enough, rich enough, connected enough, clever enough, poster-child enough, pliable enough....to be a party''s candidate.

Frankly, I am more concerned with Congress, but let''s assume that the leader of the free world should possess certain characteristics. This is a question I ask of all candidates for a job I might be interviewing them for:

If you could engage in a sort of ''Wierd Science'' project and create your perfect Leader, what are the top three characteristics you would choose? Then, in your opinion, what three characteristics would be indicative of the worst Leader/Boss?

Once I get those answered, I can compare them to all facts I can accumulate and identify with a particular candidate. Honestly, I don''t know a whole lot about McCain. I actually know more about his wife.

But I hope that will change. I think I know about as much as most Americans do....he was a prisoner of war, is of advanced age, and he identifies himself as a Republican and sucks at speeches. McCain has yet to inspire me, or engage me enough for me to develop the record, so to speak. I admit that I am only seduced by intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, common sense, broad-based experience and rational application of knowledge.

I welcome more in-depth discussion to educate me.

Both McCain and Obama have official websites with their official platforms. Either of those is a good place to start...

And yes, I too am concerned about Congress. Extremely concerned that for all those years Congress didn''t whimper as Bush basically stomped on their powers. They pretty much rolled over everytime he demanded a new "executive" power. Now that the Dems are in a bit more is being done, in the way of openness and investigations, but there is just sooo far to go to even get back to near center. More damage has been done to our system of government than I have seen in my lifetime. Nixon was an amateur compared to Bush, and it''s going to take a long time to fix - and it may not be fixable.

 

[luckystar112]

Darn it! My post died.

I was responding to ksingers link.

Here''s the thing, I have no problem with wire taps. I''m in the "if you''re not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about" camp. That usually starts a whole "well, it''s SAD that you don''t care about your own civil liberties" argument. I care about my civil liberties, but I doubt the govt cares what my aunt Edna had for lunch. So, I think the govt is well within their rights to protect our country any way they can (except for torture), but I think a checks and balances system for it should be in place.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 6/6/2008 11:14:39 PM
Author: luckystar112
Darn it! My post died.

I was responding to ksingers link.

Here''s the thing, I have no problem with wire taps. I''m in the ''if you''re not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about'' camp. That usually starts a whole ''well, it''s SAD that you don''t care about your own civil liberties'' argument. I care about my civil liberties, but I doubt the govt cares what my aunt Edna had for lunch. So, I think the govt is well within their rights to protect our country any way they can (except for torture), but I think a checks and balances system for it should be in place.

Tell that to MLK Jr who was surveilled as a criminal might be by the FBI. Tell that to Naomi Wolf, who is on a no-fly list for writing books critical of the government. Tell that to Maher Arar, who was minding his own business and was a victim of the "extraordinary rendition" that our government repeatedly denies it does.

And that''s my entire point. The Bush admin has been completely devoted to no transparency and no accountablity. The checks and balances have not BEEN in place. Under the Patriot Act for example, the FBI could request of a library what books you read, and the library is under a gag order. They can''t tell you they got a request, so if someone at the FBI decides you are reading "questionable" books, they could drag you in.

It''s not about what your Aunt Edna had for lunch, it''s about building a society that is COMPLACENT about the chipping away. It''s about "protecting" our country "any way they can" to the point that our country no longer resembles anything worth saving. I work IN the government - it''s made up of people, people who are driven by all the base impulses that people are driven by. Power, envy, the works. Most conservatives scream less government, and complain that the government is ineffective/unfair in how they tax, regulate and so on, and yet they are utterly sanguine and trusting about having Big Brother tap their phones without a warrant. I just do not get it. So let me put it in football us/them terms. Let''s assume that tomorrow every person in every party switched, and the Dems have pretty much complete power of the executive branch, and the Congress (a situation we endured for 6 years with the Republicans) - would you be so thrilled to think that you were being tapped then?? So sure that "the government" had your best interests at heart? Well, if you don''t get concerned, that may very well be what happens. And dem though I''m registered, that scenario doesn''t make me any happier than Bush et al, having that power. NO ONE should have that power.

I do not think this republic is indestructible, I think it''s more fragile than we think, and if anything kills it will be dogged denial that "we" could do that to our own people.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/6/2008 10:18:14 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady

Date: 6/5/2008 9:30:00 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I had a feeling it would be impossible for there to be a conservative thread on here, and I was right!

Uh, I second this. And while I don't support Obama, I'm not into slamming HIM without some background on what I've had to say. I am a proud conservative Republican and while I do NOT agree with McCain on a great many things, I dont support Obama for even more.

If you're going to make comments about the Republicans or the party or its politicians, keep in mind there are Republicans on this thread as well. I don't agree with everything my party has done, but there are a great many things the Dems have done that are equally shameful.

like....Gary Hart....Elliot Spitzer....Bill Clinton

and my favorite Dem...JFK

 

[ksinger]

Date: 6/7/2008 12:18:59 AM
Author: SanDiegoLady
This isn''t about being Republican or Democrat, its what''s best for the country.. keep that in mind when bad mouthing your friends party here on PS.. While we all have our opinions on what we believe, it is unnecessary and quite simply a lack of class and respect for eachother- to bash the other''s political party or eachother in general and I am so sad to see it here.

Sadly, people miss the point that its our country that needs a leader who is not afraid of being just that- A LEADER. They miss the issue of what''s best for the country. Someone who RESPECTS the office, who WANTS to see this country survive and who isn''t afraid of rolling up his OR her sleeves and really work TO DO THE RIGHT THING for the people AND the country. Not the liberal or conservative- BUT THE RIGHT THING.

I doubt theres anything one can say to make the other see the other''s side when they believe their person can do no wrong, but remember we are supposed to be friends here.. and should be respectful to eachother.

Ok?

I for one, want someone that wants to represent this country with strength, with grace and intelligence. I could give a damn how old OR how young he is. I dont care if he OR she is black, white, yellow, green or purple. Whoever leads this country needs to do so in the best interest of THE COUNTRY. Period.

Who exactly are you ranting at?

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/7/2008 12:06:58 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 6/6/2008 11:14:39 PM
Author: luckystar112
Darn it! My post died.

I was responding to ksingers link.

Here''s the thing, I have no problem with wire taps. I''m in the ''if you''re not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about'' camp. That usually starts a whole ''well, it''s SAD that you don''t care about your own civil liberties'' argument. I care about my civil liberties, but I doubt the govt cares what my aunt Edna had for lunch. So, I think the govt is well within their rights to protect our country any way they can (except for torture), but I think a checks and balances system for it should be in place.

Tell that to MLK Jr who was surveilled as a criminal might be by the FBI. Tell that to Naomi Wolf, who is on a no-fly list for writing books critical of the government. Tell that to Maher Arar, who was minding his own business and was a victim of the ''extraordinary rendition'' that our government repeatedly denies it does.

And that''s my entire point. The Bush admin has been completely devoted to no transparency and no accountablity. The checks and balances have not BEEN in place. Under the Patriot Act for example, the FBI could request of a library what books you read, and the library is under a gag order. They can''t tell you they got a request, so if someone at the FBI decides you are reading ''questionable'' books, they could drag you in.

It''s not about what your Aunt Edna had for lunch, it''s about building a society that is COMPLACENT about the chipping away. It''s about ''protecting'' our country ''any way they can'' to the point that our country no longer resembles anything worth saving. I work IN the government - it''s made up of people, people who are driven by all the base impulses that people are driven by. Power, envy, the works. Most conservatives scream less government, and complain that the government is ineffective/unfair in how they tax, regulate and so on, and yet they are utterly sanguine and trusting about having Big Brother tap their phones without a warrant. I just do not get it. So let me put it in football us/them terms. Let''s assume that tomorrow every person in every party switched, and the Dems have pretty much complete power of the executive branch, and the Congress (a situation we endured for 6 years with the Republicans) - would you be so thrilled to think that you were being tapped then?? So sure that ''the government'' had your best interests at heart? Well, if you don''t get concerned, that may very well be what happens. And dem though I''m registered, that scenario doesn''t make me any happier than Bush et al, having that power. NO ONE should have that power.

I do not think this republic is indestructible, I think it''s more fragile than we think, and if anything kills it will be dogged denial that ''we'' could do that to our own people.

So, are you saying that if checks and balances were in place to ensure that the govt was indeed preventing terrorist activities with the wire tapping and not doing it for personal gain, you would be okay with it? Because that is basically what I am saying.

But, I''m the girl who gets extremely PO''ed when I have to hear people huff and puff at the airport about having to take off their shoes.

 

[diamondfan]

Here Here SDL!

Some people on these threads (the other political ones) are getting personally offensive and nasty, and I for one think it shows a lot about character.

As always, you are reasonable and I appreciate it.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 6/7/2008 12:33:54 AM
Author: luckystar112

Date: 6/7/2008 12:06:58 AM
Author: ksinger

Date: 6/6/2008 11:14:39 PM
Author: luckystar112
Darn it! My post died.

I was responding to ksingers link.

Here''s the thing, I have no problem with wire taps. I''m in the ''if you''re not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about'' camp. That usually starts a whole ''well, it''s SAD that you don''t care about your own civil liberties'' argument. I care about my civil liberties, but I doubt the govt cares what my aunt Edna had for lunch. So, I think the govt is well within their rights to protect our country any way they can (except for torture), but I think a checks and balances system for it should be in place.

Tell that to MLK Jr who was surveilled as a criminal might be by the FBI. Tell that to Naomi Wolf, who is on a no-fly list for writing books critical of the government. Tell that to Maher Arar, who was minding his own business and was a victim of the ''extraordinary rendition'' that our government repeatedly denies it does.

And that''s my entire point. The Bush admin has been completely devoted to no transparency and no accountablity. The checks and balances have not BEEN in place. Under the Patriot Act for example, the FBI could request of a library what books you read, and the library is under a gag order. They can''t tell you they got a request, so if someone at the FBI decides you are reading ''questionable'' books, they could drag you in.

It''s not about what your Aunt Edna had for lunch, it''s about building a society that is COMPLACENT about the chipping away. It''s about ''protecting'' our country ''any way they can'' to the point that our country no longer resembles anything worth saving. I work IN the government - it''s made up of people, people who are driven by all the base impulses that people are driven by. Power, envy, the works. Most conservatives scream less government, and complain that the government is ineffective/unfair in how they tax, regulate and so on, and yet they are utterly sanguine and trusting about having Big Brother tap their phones without a warrant. I just do not get it. So let me put it in football us/them terms. Let''s assume that tomorrow every person in every party switched, and the Dems have pretty much complete power of the executive branch, and the Congress (a situation we endured for 6 years with the Republicans) - would you be so thrilled to think that you were being tapped then?? So sure that ''the government'' had your best interests at heart? Well, if you don''t get concerned, that may very well be what happens. And dem though I''m registered, that scenario doesn''t make me any happier than Bush et al, having that power. NO ONE should have that power.

I do not think this republic is indestructible, I think it''s more fragile than we think, and if anything kills it will be dogged denial that ''we'' could do that to our own people.

So, are you saying that if checks and balances were in place to ensure that the govt was indeed preventing terrorist activities with the wire tapping and not doing it for personal gain, you would be okay with it? Because that is basically what I am saying.

But, I''m the girl who gets extremely PO''ed when I have to hear people huff and puff at the airport about having to take off their shoes.

I think there is very little that justifies the government spying on its own citizens. Our government basically instituted a dragnet with the info they bullied the telecons into coughing up. And far too much has been justified by invoking terrorism. But yes, in a very limited form - individual, targeted warrants on specific indivduals, and through a FISA court, it would be OK, but considering how opaque they tried to make what they were doing, and how secretive, one has to wonder if they were so pure of intent. Or if it will change from the way it is now...

I still think the vast majority of Americans are way too complacent about this...

 

[luckystar112]

What bothers me are the jokes. Some people think this thread is there very own comedy hour.
I don''t want to post if I''m going to be ganged up upon and not taken seriously, ya know?

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 6/7/2008 12:40:00 AM
Author: diamondfan
Here Here SDL!

Some people on these threads (the other political ones) are getting personally offensive and nasty, and I for one think it shows a lot about character.

As always, you are reasonable and I appreciate it.

I completely agree.

 

[diamondfan]

Lucky, I hear ya.

Some here think they are the judge and jury about personal views, beliefs and opinions. I do not feel that attacking people and being nasty if they disagree is the way to go. I am disgusted with the way some people in these political threads see fit to behave. Even if I disagree with someone, I never attack them personally. Sadly some people here think nastiness and offensive comments are the way to go.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 6/7/2008 12:49:14 AM
Author: luckystar112

What bothers me are the jokes. Some people think this thread is there very own comedy hour.
I don''t want to post if I''m going to be ganged up upon and not taken seriously, ya know?

Well, I don''t recall making any jokes. My posts have been serious, reasonably well-supported, not Obama-centric and not flippant, if not always as complimentary of McCain as some would wish. But since a few folks have their knickers in a serious twist and are beginning to make comments as to my and others'' character, I shall now bow out of this thread and be banished back to the other political threads with the low-class folks.

 

[luckystar112]

I try not to make things personal--honestly. I don''t know if I offended anyone yet. I was a little rude to Freke, but I apologized. I think politics can really bring out the passion in some people.
And it''s hard to have an opinion when you''re afraid people are going to react negatively.

Anyway, ksinger, I absolutely agree with you. I think it is way too easy for it to be taken advantage of. Still, I wonder how much we don''t know about how much the government DOES know about us? If you get what I mean. Conspiracy theory anyone? I think if the govt had free reign reign over our telephones, internet, library books, etc. it would be abused. There is no way to guarantee that the power would be used the way it''s claimed to be used.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/7/2008 1:03:38 AM
Author: ksinger
Well, I don''t recall making any jokes. My posts have been serious, reasonably well-supported, not Obama-centric and not flippant, if not always as complimentary of McCain as some would wish. But since a few folks have their knickers in a serious twist and are beginning to make comments as to my and others'' character, I shall now bow out of this thread and be banished back to the other political threads with the low-class folks.

Ksinger, I''m not talking about you! I enjoy you very much and can tell that you are very intelligent and well informed.
I''m enjoying our discussion!

 

[FrekeChild]

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/7/2008 1:20:56 AM
Author: FrekeChild

How about we all start over. Here is something that will hopefully lighten the mood, I hope it makes you smile!

 

[FrekeChild]

Lol luckystar! Where did you find that?

I seem to see more "Clinton/Gore", "Kerry/Edwards", and "Bush/Cheney" stickers out there instead of the current ones, most of the time.

I always think- "Guys! You''re 4-8 years out of date! Get with the times, or at least take that faded sticker off your car!"

Oh. And quite a few old Nader stickers too. Does he change his stuff every 4 years or recycle all of his campaign materials? (I totally think he should recycle...)

 

[pennquaker09]

I try to stay out of political threads because they have a tendency to go downhill, very fast. I came here wanting to find out more about McCain and I''ve basically read a page of jokes on his age. Which, yes is a concern, but I still think that those here on the fence (like me) and those that are conservative should be able to have threads with meaningful discussion.

 

[FrekeChild]

Then why don''t you start the meaningful discussion? Ask some questions perhaps?

I''m probably at fault for creating the "comedic ambiance" in this thread because I was the one who posted the "thingsyoungerthanmccain" site, but I found it to be fascinating and informative. I didn''t realize how YOUNG things like the Golden Gate Bridge are. Attribute that to my age, but I considered that particular site to be less of a joke about McCain''s age (which it was obviously intended) and more of a synopsis of recent American and world popular and non popular culture.

It really saddens me that the conservative people won''t post because they are afraid or what have you of the thread getting out of control. I have some legit questions that I''ve asked (I think on the other threads) and no one has bothered to answer them. I''d post them here, but it''s already been made obvious that no one wants to contribute, so why bother?

What people of differing opinions may find aggressive or argumentative may not be meant as such. At least with me, I know that there is a thirst for knowledge there, and I genuinely want to know the other person''s viewpoint. I know that I tend to get aggressive when I feel passionate about something, and I can be brutally honest, but that''s part of my upbringing (dad''s an attorney, and I had to learn to debate to survive) and NONE of it is meant to be insulting or demeaning of the individuals on this board. Although it could be perceived in that manner, it was not intended.

I think that if everyone could at least try to contribute and remember to take everything with a grain of salt, this could be a great thread. Until that happens though, I don''t see this going anywhere. And that makes me sad.

 

[MoonWater]

Well, if you fear expressing your views on an anonymous message board, I can only imagine what happens in life.

That said, there was ONE joke cracked by ME in this thread (shouldn't have mentioned pants) with a comment saying I will swiftly end it if this became a real discussion. I also went on to bring up something from the "jokey" link that Freke posted that was informative and NOT funny, simply ironic (The rest of that site can be a nice little history lesson). I mentioned the margarita due to the last thread, and brought up the bloggers opinion regarding the age max/min because he brought up my same point.

Everything else I posted was in line with this thread, except I am not a McCain supporter. Surely you must be prepared to deal with people that do not agree with the man just as Obama supporters have dealt with MANY that do not like Obama. If you can't handle it, oh well. Most of this thread has been a nice discussion with great information. Too bad most of it was provided by Karen, a non McCain supporter.

This quote has been attributed mostly, to B. Franklin, but others as well. It has also be stated in various forms. Whatever the case, I agree with it. The as long as you aren't doing anything wrong claim simply doesn't work. Because the more power you give the government, the more the can find something wrong with what you do. Did anyone here read 1984!!??!?

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/7/2008 8:42:48 AM
Author: MoonWater
Well, if you fear expressing your views on an anonymous message board, I can only imagine what happens in life.

That said, there was ONE joke cracked by ME in this thread (shouldn't have mentioned pants) with a comment saying I will swiftly end it if this became a real discussion. I also went on to bring up something from the 'jokey' link that Freke posted that was informative and NOT funny, simply ironic (The rest of that site can be a nice little history lesson). I mentioned the margarita due to the last thread, and brought up the bloggers opinion regarding the age max/min because he brought up my same point.

Everything else I posted was in line with this thread, except I am not a McCain supporter. Surely you must be prepared to deal with people that do not agree with the man just as Obama supporters have dealt with MANY that do not like Obama. If you can't handle it, oh well. Most of this thread has been a nice discussion with great information. Too bad most of it was provided by Karen, a non McCain supporter.

This quote has been attributed mostly, to B. Franklin, but others as well. It has also be stated in various forms. Whatever the case, I agree with it. The as long as you aren't doing anything wrong claim simply doesn't work. Because the more power you give the government, the more the can find something wrong with what you do. Did anyone here read 1984!!??!?

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Starset Princess created this thread and asked why people think he'd make a good president, why he's the right candidate, and why people support him. Okay, you cracked one joke. Every other contribution to this thread has been the opposite of what was intended, all the way down to the website you posted--and what makes it so baffling is that no one had even said anything yet.

I'm not afraid to share my views in real life. I can "handle" various opinions. But this is a jewelry forum, and we are among friends. So we all need to rememeber that there is a way to say things that don't have sarcastic and insulting undertones. If people want to debate, join a debating forum. There is nothing wrong with having an intelligent, mature conversation about likes and dislikes about McCain.

With that being said, I'd like to respectfully disagree with you.
I think our government has a responsibility to protect us from terrorist attacks in any way possible. But as I said earlier, there should be a checks and balances system put in place and it should be used as a last resort. The fact that 9/11 hijackers were in our country, going to our flight schools, and virtually planning their mission right under our noses doesn't sit well with me. 1984 was a work of fiction, and that Ben Franklin quote was part of a book of propoganda. I prefer an oldie but goodie "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/7/2008 12:29:08 PM
Author: luckystar112


Starset Princess created this thread and asked why people think he'd make a good president, why he's the right candidate, and why people support him. Okay, you cracked one joke. Every other contribution to this thread has been the opposite of what was intended, all the way down to the website you posted--and what makes it so baffling is that no one had even said anything yet.

And there was a thread about Obama's speech in which people felt the need to express why they didn't like him. So what? There was a long back and forth discussion in there in which Obama supporters had to "defend" him to those that did not support him. I would expect the same exact discussion to occur no matter what political figure we are discussing and no matter what party.

I'm not afraid to share my views in real life. I can 'handle' various opinions. But this is a jewelry forum, and we are among friends. So we all need to rememeber that there is a way to say things that don't have sarcastic and insulting undertones. If people want to debate, join a debating forum. There is nothing wrong with having an intelligent, mature conversation about likes and dislikes about McCain.

I will remember if you do. You have said things I certainly find more offensive than the one joke I told. But instead of saying something like "why bother" or complain about it, I simply replied to what you said and told you how I disagreed. That is what I call an intelligent conversation. Humor is humor. I think perhaps people need to lighten up. For instance, I loved the pic you posted, I wish I had thought to do it because I was annoyed at not being able to get a damn Obama button! BTW: I'm still waiting for you to fully address my other response to you in another thread.

With that being said, I'd like to respectfully disagree with you.

I think our government has a responsibility to protect us from terrorist attacks in any way possible. But as I said earlier, there should be a checks and balances system put in place and it should be used as a last resort. The fact that 9/11 hijackers were in our country, going to our flight schools, and virtually planning their mission right under our noses doesn't sit well with me. 1984 was a work of fiction, and that Ben Franklin quote was part of a book of propoganda. I prefer an oldie but goodie 'fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me'.

Then we can agree to disagree for the many reasons that Karen has already stated. The problem is, there are checks and balances that our executive is IGNORING. If we need more checks and balances, so be it, I would prefer that they are in place (and followed!!) before my government violates MY RIGHTS. Further, we had plenty of information about the 9/11 hijackers pre-9/11 and yet it didn't stop anything. Maybe you should push to have each department (FBI, CIA etc) to communicate more effectively with each other before you push to have ordinary citizens spied on. Oh, and about 1984...I think you should spend some time researching George Orwell before claiming it was simply a work of fiction. You can start with this: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Orwell-Matters-Christopher-Hitchens/dp/0465030505/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212857012&sr=8-1 I highly recommend reading 1984 first, it will help you with the book I just linked you too. It's scary just how much of what he wrote in that book of "fiction" has happened right here in the good ol US of A.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 6/7/2008 12:51:40 AM
Author: LAJennifer

Date: 6/7/2008 12:40:00 AM

Author: diamondfan

Here Here SDL!


Some people on these threads (the other political ones) are getting personally offensive and nasty, and I for one think it shows a lot about character.


As always, you are reasonable and I appreciate it.

I completely agree.

Huge thritto DF. I never attack people personally as well when it comes to this, and after years of being attacked myself I''ve decided to mostly stay out of it. But anyway, I admire you as well SDL.

 

[tradergirl]

I am a Republican and here's why McCain is the only choice. The other candidate scares me to death.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTE5ZTQyNzM2MzE1NmQyMzQxYjgxYjEzNWU5NmQxYjM=

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/7/2008 1:52:18 PM
Author: tradergirl
I am a Republican and here''s why McCain is the only choice. The other candidate scares me to death.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTE5ZTQyNzM2MzE1NmQyMzQxYjgxYjEzNWU5NmQxYjM=

Senator John McCain has been criticized in this column many times. But, when all is said and done, Senator McCain has not spent decades aiding and abetting people who hate America.

Ain''t THAT the truth.

Just as the Nazis did not find it enough to simply kill people in their concentration camps, but had to humiliate and dehumanize them first, so we can expect terrorists with nuclear weapons to both humiliate us and force us to humiliate ourselves, before they finally start killing us.

This is kind of silly though.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/7/2008 12:40:00 AM
Author: diamondfan
Here Here SDL!

Some people on these threads (the other political ones) are getting personally offensive and nasty, and I for one think it shows a lot about character.

As always, you are reasonable and I appreciate it.

Ditto! Nice post, SDL.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

In Hangout, there have been threads for Dogs or Cats only. I think maybe we need a thread for conservatives only to discuss their viewpoints without fear of being attacked or ridculed and the Democrats or liberals could also have their own off-limits threads with no debating, too. I suppose the undecideds could have a thread where they could ask questions, too. The problem with this thread was that it was started by Starset, who maybe had the best of intentions; yet to some, it may have appeared to be a trap since her avatar does indicate she has clearly already made her choice!

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 6/7/2008 1:52:18 PM
Author: tradergirl
I am a Republican and here''s why McCain is the only choice. The other candidate scares me to death.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTE5ZTQyNzM2MzE1NmQyMzQxYjgxYjEzNWU5NmQxYjM=

Hi tradergirl - I was just getting ready to post that exact article. Thomas Sowell is truly one the greatest thinkers of our lifetime. Since you posted the article, allow me to post an article about the article.

http://gregransom.com/prestopundit/2008/06/not-since-1972.html