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Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper?

S

SF-Guy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
28
So thank you SOOOO much to the community for all of your help and support. This is the closest I've been thus far to pulling the trigger and I just want to get your blessing before I bust out the wallet.

I've found the following stone:

$ 7500.00

Old Mine Brilliant
6.15 x 6.09 x 4.23

Carat: 1.29ct
Color: G
Clarity: VS2
Symmetry: Very Good
Polish: Very Good
Fluoro: None
Depth: 69.5
Table: 55
Girdle: ETN to THK
Culet: Large


I saw the stone in person but did NOT use a jewelers loupe (no magnification). The stone looked clean to me.

MY ONLY CONCERN IS THE GIANT CULET. It appears to sparkle, but wondering if that culet is a black hole; whereby a Cushion Modified might perform exponentially better?

Just wondering if the PS community thinks this is a good candidate for HW Cushion Halo and if the stone is priced right?

THANK YOU!

Here is a link to a video I took: https://app.box.com/s/vkam4g1rftvw98wrlkcr

Here is a photo:
20130921_135609.jpg

Here is the GIA:
screen_shot_2013-09-23_at_1.png
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

To be honest, the paperwork means very little with an antique cut stone, other than to verify color, clarity, weight, and measurements. We'd have to see a highly magnified picture of the stone to tell if it has potential. I love a large culet so that is not normally a negative. But I would have to have great optical symmetry and sharp facet edges, etc.

Get us some magnified images and we'll try to help!
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

I will say that part of that girdle is extremely thin, so you'd either need a jeweler or appraiser to evaluate that for you because the stone may need to be set in a bezel or halo to protect it from chipping. It is also pretty deep making it face up small.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

Example of what you could get for $8700...a 1.2 ct I SI1 AVC with measurements of 6.62 x 6.04mm.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11109/

or http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11106/ $7741 6.8 x 6.2mm

Not sure of your color tolerance, but you should be able to get a larger appearing stone than that one even with an antique cut. That one faces up about like a 1 ct cushion.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

In general I prefer to stay away from large cutlets, extra thin girdle, and a table over 53%.

As previously mentioned it faces up small for it's size because the depth is at 69% so it is bottom heavy. I would pass.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

I agree with Gypsy, SB and DS. You can do better. In addition to Good Old Gold and ERD, I'd also contact Old World Diamonds. I looked at their cushions and they have quite a few in that price range and I know that Adam would be happy to send you photos of potential candidates. Good luck with your search!
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

Thanks for the input. Bummer! I was hoping I had found that perfect stone. Back to the drawing board I suppose. I will follow up and check out these links you have all suggested. Thanks again!
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

Definitely call Adam at OWD, his website isn't very user friendly. Tell him what you want and your price range. He does youtube videos of the diamonds which will help you "see" them. I found it very helpful.

Jewels by Erica Grace is another source for antique cuts.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

SB621|1379981902|3525940 said:
In general I prefer to stay away from large cutlets, extra thin girdle, and a table over 53%.

As previously mentioned it faces up small for it's size because the depth is at 69% so it is bottom heavy. I would pass.
Click to expand...

Agreed. That stone looks like (and it's difficult to tell, honestly), a bit too old of a stone for my preferences in an engagement ring. It appears to have quite a large culet and whole lotta wonk. I love wonk, but not quite THAT much for an engagement ring. :))
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

We are somewhat color sensitive and I prefer clean stones. This stone was G/VS2. I am headed back this am to take better pictures as it was pretty sparkly in the store -- and when I compare what I saw vs. what I am seeing on the internet (J/VS2, H/Si2) I get worried I would pass on something perfect (but facing up small) in lieu of something yellow or dirty just to gain 0.2 -0.3 mm.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

Although my initial reaction was that the diamond was rather pricey, after looking at the competing diamonds it is not overpriced. Every diamond you were directed to was a color or more darker and SI1 or less in clarity. Those diamonds were newly cut stones and while very pretty, they don't exactly have the same "charm" as somewhat less symmetric, authentic old cuts. A "G" color is a really rare find in an old cut these days. Your photo makes the stone look way out of shape, but the GIA report gives it Very Good symmetry, so it must be the angle of the photo making the diamond look a bit "wonky" as someone else suggested.

It is a bit of a deeply cut stone, but that is exactly how old mine cushions were cut. The entire operation of cutting at the middle to end of the 1800's was just not what is normal today. The economics and technology of diamond cutting were very different and however the depth is, one must assume the cutter was a skilled crafts-person who did their best to maximize beauty and value based on the ability at that time so long ago.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

Sorry for the late response... I did stop by again this am to try and snap some hi-res photos of the pavillion vs girdle depth...

Still a no go?

20130924_095326.jpg

20130924_095230.jpg

20130924_095220.jpg

20130924_095206.jpg
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

You didn't take any photos dead on which shows the facet pattern which is really the major concern. We know the girdle is X-thin so we don't need pictures to prove that. I would still pass for the reasons already stated. I think you can find something better out there. Don't try to make a square peg fit in a round hole.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

Thank SB, but I am looking for a chunky cushion!

I took those photos for you to illustrate the crown/pavillion proportions as I didn't think it was "bottom heavy" but rather, "top heavy" when I was looking at it the other day...

I guess it's just like oldminer said... The stone I posted is 1.29ct G/VS2 VG-VG, a crystal clear, clean stone -- but faces up a little smaller than I was hoping for;

Everyone seems to think I can do better, but referencing stones which are only 0.3mm larger but come at the cost of up to 4 color grades worse and all having some inclusions right smack dab in the center of the table.... and COST MORE $$$$ :cry:

So maybe "better" is a relative term here on pricescope :) I just can't justify sacrificing color and clarity to gain 2/10 of a mm in size.

Are there really any better options in the G/H VS2 range???
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

Other than the romance of the old mine cut and the cost relative to similarly graded stones, what is it you like about this stone? "It does appear to sparkle" is not the strongest of statements. :wink2:

For my one and only engagement ring I would want real sparkle, and I would not want a large and obvious culet. A moderate culet would be fine, but that stone had better sparkle and if it has an obvious culet, it had better have some fine kobize going on! Personally I'd be fine with an "I" stone - that's far from "yellow" in my book.

But that's my preference - your girlfriend's may differ. At the end of the day, she's the one you're trying to delight here!

SF-Guy|1380119467|3527006 said:
So maybe "better" is a relative term here on pricescope :) I just can't justify sacrificing color and clarity to gain 2/10 of a mm in size.
Click to expand...

Just make sure you're not sacrificing performance for bragging rights on carat weight and color! ;))
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

You keep asking for better options out there but we have already given you several names of places to contact. I suggest you contact them to see about better options.

I think for those of us on PS we aren't considered picky with color and size as much as facet patterns when it comes to antique dimaonds, which I think is where we are all not connecting. If the facet pattern is mushy then it really doesn't matter to me how white a stone is. If it has a wonky cut then it also doesn't matter how white it is. Clarity is always a given - as long as it is eye clean we are all happy. There are good, great and bad old cuts and I suggest you do a bit more research. For example you don't really seem to be concerned about X-thin girdle but do you realize that makes the diamond much more susceptible to damage? The chances are higher of her chipping the diamond due to the girdle. I have been there and done that!

For buying cushions I care much less what the lab report says and much more about what pictures show us. So far you haven't given us much to go off of so yes we are going to show you some options but really you need to get out there and find them yourself. If you are complacent with this diamond and don't care (in the nice way of course :)) ) what we say then go for this one. However you are asking for red flags so we will point them out. In the end it is your money so do what you want.

Edit: Oh and the diamond I posted was H/VS2 and cheaper then your option. So not sure why you are saying everything is several colors grades lower and more $$$$$. I thought it was a good range ppl posted.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

VRBeauty|1380121303|3527016 said:
what is it you like about this stone?

For my one and only engagement ring I would want real sparkle, and I would not want a large and obvious culet. A moderate culet would be fine, but that stone had better sparkle and if it has an obvious culet, it had better have some fine kobize going on! Personally I'd be fine with an "I" stone - that's far from "yellow" in my book.

But that's my preference - your girlfriend's may differ. At the end of the day, she's the one you're trying to delight here!

Just make sure you're not sacrificing performance for bragging rights on carat weight and color! ;))
Click to expand...

This is spot on how I feel. We looked at a L color old mine which I posted here a few weeks back - I liked the stone but the GF used words like "yellow" and "tea colored"... She was okay with it, but prefers something whiter, so I am trying to stick within G/H/I.


SB621 said:
Edit: Oh and the diamond I posted was H/VS2 and cheaper then your option. So not sure why you are saying everything is several colors grades lower and more $$$$$. I thought it was a good range ppl posted.
Click to expand...

SB, the H/VS2 at JbEG isn't a cushion though :blackeye:

I have contacted those vendors referenced above and they stack up as follows:

1.4 K, Si1 -> Great stone, eye clean for sure, but would I notice a color difference between the G/VS2 and a K/Si1?

The other two H/Si1 are also great stones, but have obvious inclusions right under the table :blackeye: Perhaps the images are intensely magnified and the inclusions wouldn't be seen with the naked eye - but the gentleman who was answered said they are there, but the performance keeps you from seeing inside the stone :)

I guess I wish there was a 6.5mm H or I VS2.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

You will notice a difference between a g and a k. But that's not necessarily a good or bad thing. One is a softer white (goes well with antique cuts)
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

SF- I have to agree 100% with Oldminer.
A stone of this cut with VG VG on polish and symmetry s not going to be "wonky"
In fact it suggests that it's a modern stone cut to old style- pretty much all true antique stones never get better than Good- and many will have Fair polish or symmetry.
None of the evidence presented so far would cause an expert to rule out the stone. With no negative evidence presented about seller or stone, I agree that the price seems fair.
Having said that- we have not seen a good "head on" photo which will at least give us an idea what the diamond looks like.

ETA- good advice for every consumer- make sure to get a money back guarantee- so you can inspect or appraise the stone with the ability to return-
Also- make sure to check out the seller thoroughly.
Internet searches will generally show complaints if they exist-
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

I'm sorry don't remember but was the L you posted graded GIA or EGL. Regardless since your GF is color sensative so stick with I or better and that is only if she sees a GIA I diamond and is ok with that color. J might work for you perhaps if it has flur and faced up whiter. But with all that said this is why I think you need to see the diamond vs. going off the report.

It seems you don't see great cushions for awhile and then all the sudden several pop up. Try to not get frustrated- are you on a time crunch to propose soon? If not my advise is wait a little bit and see what vendors can source for you. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Oh just get a very good dead on shot of this diamond and post it. Hopefully it will be fantastic. We saw see.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

Thanks SB / RD
She wants the ring on the finger ASAP. It's funny as I mentioned this very thing, we can wait for something nice to pop up - but she would rather buy now, worry later haha.

I suppose the wise thing to do is go back AGAIN, haha, and snap a photo of the top of the G/VS2 stone for your expert review :)

RD - you are correct, the jeweler told me the stone is not a recut antique, but rather was rough cut to "look" antique. Is this odd? It is GIA cert'd as "Old Mine Brilliant" but isn't truly an old mine stone; which kind of detracts from the romance.
 
Re: Prequalify this GIA G/VS2 "Old Mine Brilliant"... Keeper

Your pictures don't give us any idea of how it looks.

GIA only classifies the cutting style, not how old it is.
 
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