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Possibly getting my center stone from a broker now..

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courtneyclv

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
125
Hey everyone, so I have my ring at hold at the jeweler Michael Mindien. I do love it but of course, secretly want a bigger center stone than my 1.21 princess cut. Soooo..my friend has a jeweler broker friend. She has a HUGGGEEEE ring that her BF got her from him. I think it is 5 carats maybe? Anyways, I do not know the details of her princess cut but I will just say that all of the cocktail waitresses at my casino are envious..I think they got it for $25,000 or something like that. I have looked at the stone and it is gorgeous! (but WAY too big for this 5'0 tiny girl!)

Soooo..I wanted to use my jeweler because I will get an upgrade credit of $3700 when I spend double that. I am thinking that my setting, with a custom matching wedding band (the same setting but with more diamonds to fill in the gap of where the center stone is) would be close to that..but a little less. HMMMMM???

I just called and the center stone at MIchael Minden is $7300 EGL certified..the total of the ring is $9500. Link to the specs... https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-specs-of-the-1-21-princess-cut-just-called.53292/=


Oh man, am I being greedy? I do love my ring, but if I can get a larger stone from a broker for the same price, why not? But..I don't think I will be able to spend $7400 on a setting, a wedding band, and a men's wedding band.

Suggestions?
 

gail013

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
335
Hi Courtney-

I did alot of looking around for my center stone, as I wanted a larger size. I spent 2 months looking at B and M stores, ''private jewelers'', and online. In the end, I found the best stone and deal at a small jeweler, who was willing to match the internet pricing for us. But what may be difficult for you, is that you have already found the setting that you love, and you have to take that into consideration.

There are many posts about wholesale type jewelers, and to be wary of them. I guess you don''t have anything to hurt by checking it out, and if I also remember you said you also loved the halo setting, and that is one way to get alot more of a larger-looking stone. YOU could also price that out.

I am just curious, how do you have a credit at this store-is it because you are upgrading a piece of jewlery? Remember if you go to this wholesaler person to ask what their policy is on upgrades if you do that down the road. I think you mentioned too that an F color was important to you, otherwise is you are going by GIA or non- EGL, you could save quite a bit of money by going to a H or something, and it really should not look yellow. This is just my opinion-I think the stones you were looking at that were rated EGL, may have been lower than what they were labeled.......
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,048
Hi, Courtney,

I just have to caution you that there really aren''t any people just giving away diamonds! If you don''t want to stick with your current stone, then I''d highly recommend one of the PriceScope vendors with an excellent reputation to get you a great stone. I didn''t influence you in that direction before because of the credit with your jeweler. I am not understanding why you have to spend double to use a credit, though.

You are going to have to decide something else, too. Is size THE most important factor for you? Because a well cut princess stone is not going to be inexpensive. You''d ideally want an AGS or GIA certificate. Your friend''s large princess is probably not great quality at the price you quoted.

One advantage of a few of these vendors is that they allow 100% of what you pay toward a trade-up later. Some have a $0 minimum to upgrade and others have an amount like $500.

If you buy from this person, I''d strongly suggest sending it to an independent appraiser to evaluate before you make the sale final. DO NOT BUY if the person will not agree to an independent appraisal. I don''t know if there is an independent appraiser in Las Vegas or not, but I wouldn''t hesitate to send it to one of the respected appraisers who posts here. If you don''t, you may have no idea what you''re really getting, and it may not be a better deal at all.
 

KristyDarling

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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3,667
Date: 11/25/2006 6:44:21 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Hi, Courtney,


I just have to caution you that there really aren''t any people just giving away diamonds! If you don''t want to stick with your current stone, then I''d highly recommend one of the PriceScope vendors with an excellent reputation to get you a great stone. I didn''t influence you in that direction before because of the credit with your jeweler. I am not understanding why you have to spend double to use a credit, though.


You are going to have to decide something else, too. Is size THE most important factor for you? Because a well cut princess stone is not going to be inexpensive. You''d ideally want an AGS or GIA certificate. Your friend''s large princess is probably not great quality at the price you quoted.


One advantage of a few of these vendors is that they allow 100% of what you pay toward a trade-up later. Some have a $0 minimum to upgrade and others have an amount like $500.


If you buy from this person, I''d strongly suggest sending it to an independent appraiser to evaluate before you make the sale final. DO NOT BUY if the person will not agree to an independent appraisal. I don''t know if there is an independent appraiser in Las Vegas or not, but I wouldn''t hesitate to send it to one of the respected appraisers who posts here. If you don''t, you may have no idea what you''re really getting, and it may not be a better deal at all.
This is really great advice. Personally I''d avoid the whole broker route since as DS said, there''s no such thing as discounted *high-quality* diamonds. However, for some people, size trumps quality (nothing wrong with that, it''s a personal thing), and if you feel comfortable with the knowledge that getting a larger stone means compromising quality, then it might be worth talking with this broker. Even so, having the stone sent to an independent appraiser is a must. You need to know exactly what you''re getting. Good luck!
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
it''s quite possible to get a better deal from a broker but you should just be careful about it. You may have to sacrifice a little of the "customer shopping experience" as broker are in the business of quick turnarounds and yes/no answers.

$25,000 for a 5 carater is impossible. too low.
 

cutes814

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
1,803
courtney, sometimes when things sound too good to be true, they just might. just be careful. like diamondseeker said, make sure to send it to a reputable independent appraiser BEFORE you purchase it.

your friend''s ring seem to be way underpriced. a 5 carat stone for $25k?
wouldn''t it be at least double that?
 

courtneyclv

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
125
Ok, it may not be a 5 carat..I don't know the specifics..maybe 3. I am working with her at my bar today and have been staring at her ring!!! It is a gorgeous princess cut. The jeweler is in New York somewhere. I think maybe he sold it to them at cost?

It is an upgrade credit I have. I have bf's ex's ring that is worth 3700. To use it, we need to spend 7400.

As far as the ring goes that I have on hold..what do u think about its price?

The setting has .64 cts. of baguette and some pave, platinum.

My bf says of course, "Courtney..if you love the ring we have on hold, just keep it. Why do you have to always try to get a better deal and a bigger stone? That center stone is beautiful. I know you want a larger stone, but why not be happy with what you have. I don't really want to call ..." (it really is, totally clear, no visible inclusions even with the scope, good measurements)

I am just the kind of person that doesn't want doubts in the future and wants to be greedy and think...what if.. But BF is the kind of person who doesn't like hassles and will settle for the first thing he sees, whether or not he can shop around or find something better. He tries to live stress- free (is that possible?) and this ring thing is stressing him out!


Courtney

ps- OH NO...I HAVE BEEN VEGAS-FIED TO THINK BIGGER IS ALWAYS BETTER!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Date: 11/25/2006 11:15:36 PM
Author: courtneyclv
Ok, it may not be a 5 carat..I don't know the specifics..maybe 3. I am working with her at my bar today and have been staring at her ring!!! It is a gorgeous princess cut. The jeweler is in New York somewhere. I think maybe he sold it to them at cost?
Most people have no idea what size stones are. Princesses can look larger because of their shape.

Why would this guy sell someone a diamond AT COST? That means he makes NO MONEY. That's not a business, that's a giveaway. People do not give diamonds away. Even if I had some spectacular friend in the 'business'...I would never expect them to give me a stone for free.

Bottom line is you get what you pay for. If I had a dollar for every person on here who said 'I have a friend who has a friend in the business....'..well you know the saying. Just be careful and do your research. No one can outsmart you when you know what you are buying, inside and out. Don't rely on others to get you a great deal. Figure out what you want and then figure out how to get it. Good luck.
 

gail013

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
335
Courtney-

Please don''t feel bad that you want to feel you''re getting the best ring you can for the price. There is nothing wrong with looking around. If anything, it will reinforce what you want or don''t want. Jewelry is such a competitive business, and you are in the drivers seat. It seems you are getting frustrated, because this should be a fun process, and it''s becoming difficult for you. I have been there many times.

You could visit other shops and put the question to them-tell them what you want, and see what they come back with. You may be surprised. The credit you have at the current store is very nice but..... I will say, that I walked away from my first jewlery shop, because although I had a credit if I traded in my ring, they were not giving me a fair price for the new stone, and it wasn''t worth it. In the end, I was giving them my ring, and overpaying for the new one. Hmmm, didn''t make sense.

What are you trading in-type of stone etc? Have you asked if anyone else will take it in on a trade?

Most of all, decide what YOU want to do, and go from there. If it''s a larger stone you want, no one will judge you for that. Do you know who makes the setting you love, sorry I can''t remember that part, and didn''t see it in the last link you posted....

I think you mentioned that you are always second guessing yorself. Me too! It''s a female thing-most guys make the decision and move on, while we sort of make a decision and think about it day and night......and change our mind.
 

jayrenay9

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
704
The most expensive F, SI1 princess I could find on Pricescope was a GIA 1.2 for $5836. EGL stones are sold at a lower price than GIA. Let''s just say that EGL is 10% cheaper than GIA (this number has been argued by many as I higher number), bringing the price of the diamond down to $5252.40. That means you are overpaying by at least $2047.60! You don''t need a "broker", you need a pricescope vendor!

Do you have the ex girlfriends engagement ring still or have you already returned it? If you haven''t returned it, try selling it first. Then maybe you won''t feel locked into buying from this store.
 

gail013

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
335
Jayrenay you''re right, I was just looking up the same info....if we know who made the setting, we could get the total cost/savings thru a Pricescope vendor. I am also doing a search for larger stones over 1.5 carats, GIA rated, H in color to see what comes up, so Courtney could find a larger stone. If nothing else, it would be nice if they could get the price down a bit from MM, with that info.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 11/26/2006 2:23:23 AM
Author: Mara

Date: 11/25/2006 11:15:36 PM
Author: courtneyclv
Ok, it may not be a 5 carat..I don''t know the specifics..maybe 3. I am working with her at my bar today and have been staring at her ring!!! It is a gorgeous princess cut. The jeweler is in New York somewhere. I think maybe he sold it to them at cost?
Most people have no idea what size stones are. Princesses can look larger because of their shape.

Why would this guy sell someone a diamond AT COST? That means he makes NO MONEY. That''s not a business, that''s a giveaway. People do not give diamonds away. Even if I had some spectacular friend in the ''business''...I would never expect them to give me a stone for free.

Bottom line is you get what you pay for. If I had a dollar for every person on here who said ''I have a friend who has a friend in the business....''..well you know the saying. Just be careful and do your research. No one can outsmart you when you know what you are buying, inside and out. Don''t rely on others to get you a great deal. Figure out what you want and then figure out how to get it. Good luck.
Ditto Mara. Courtney, forgive me, but you seem to have doubts on this ring, I have been following your threads and you almost seem to be talking yourself into the F SI diamond...There are plenty of rings and diamonds out there, why not step back, make it a mission to getting the best you can for your money as you are almost doing, read the tutorials and use the search tool to price up and compare diamonds, then you can shop with confidence that you are getting the best diamond you can for your money. You can still keep the other diamond on layaway while you do this possibly.
 

courtneyclv

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
125
Hi,
Thanks for the fast replies everyone. I asked my friend and her diamond is about 3 1/2 carats..its huge! She also said we would take me to her diamond friend this Thursday. No, he doesn't get them at cost, because he won't make a profit, but I know she says all of his diamonds are certified and he gets them from the jewelry conventions they have here in Las Vegas. He takes cash and that is fine too.

I do love the setting I have on hold. I do love the center stone..but like I know about myself..I always want more more more. If I can spend the same amount and get a larger diamond..why not???? I would be extremely happy with that center stone.but I know that 1.21 princess cuts, F color around maybe $6000 or so..not over 7k.

Oh, and I remember looking at a 6k ring at Michael Minden..she said I just wouldn't get as much for the trade in. So I can still use it even if I am only spending under the $7400

So...I am going with my friend to her jeweler this week. I am going to tell him specifics that I am looking for.

I was going to say

princess cut or 'squarish' stone,
F,G color
No more than SI1
certified with paperwork
1.20 and above
under 8k if possible
What other specs should I require?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,048
Courtney, there is more to learn about choosing a princess cut than just color and clarity. This is why you won't know whether the stone is worth what you're asked to pay without an appraiser seeing it. But here is something to help you learn about princess stones, and I'll see if I can find more. I really advise you to stick to G-H color if you want a larger stone. H will really help you get to a larger size.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/content.php?c=55

Print this off and have it with you:

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fnc1.asp

And understand that if the certs are not GIA or AGS, you can assume they are a grade or so lower than represented.
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
Date: 11/26/2006 5:48:07 AM
Author: courtneyclv
Hi,
Thanks for the fast replies everyone. I asked my friend and her diamond is about 3 1/2 carats..its huge! She also said we would take me to her diamond friend this Thursday. No, he doesn''t get them at cost, because he won''t make a profit, but I know she says all of his diamonds are certified and he gets them from the jewelry conventions they have here in Las Vegas. He takes cash and that is fine too.

I do love the setting I have on hold. I do love the center stone..but like I know about myself..I always want more more more. If I can spend the same amount and get a larger diamond..why not???? I would be extremely happy with that center stone.but I know that 1.21 princess cuts, F color around maybe $6000 or so..not over 7k.

Oh, and I remember looking at a 6k ring at Michael Minden..she said I just wouldn''t get as much for the trade in. So I can still use it even if I am only spending under the $7400

So...I am going with my friend to her jeweler this week. I am going to tell him specifics that I am looking for.

I was going to say

princess cut or ''squarish'' stone,
F,G color
No more than SI1
certified with paperwork
1.20 and above
under 8k if possible
What other specs should I require?
From listening to your needs I think you''d be happier with an H color. This will allow you to get a larger stone. With princesses the price jumps more from H to G or F than from SI1 to VS2

also, just for the record, sometimes it is possible for a dealer to sell something at cost, i''ve done it myself. this is because of the need to maintain proper cash flow and not need to take out money on interest from a credit line or other lender.
 

ladykemma

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,194
hi courtney

remember to live within your means. you were speaking of financing the smaller ring, and now you are thinking of financing even a bigger stone. debt destroys marriages and lives. wouldn''t you rather have a nice home, stable marriage, than a large debt filled rock on your hand?

sleep on it?
 

mtrb

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2003
Messages
207
DBM is right.
An H color stone..especially if it is GIA or AGS certed, would most likely meet your needs. Keep in mind however, that a round will face up whiter than a Squarish (princess) stone. Therefore, your color tolerance may be lower on a squarish stone. With a round, I would even go as low as an I color well cut GIA certed stone.
 

courtneyclv

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
125
Yeah, I will definatly look into a G or H stone. I want to stay in the same price range still..about 6-8k for the center stone, and then my setting around 2k and same for the band (more though because it will be custom) know I held up a I or even a J stone next to the F and I thought...''ewww'' But I do not think it was a G or H.

Now I feel bad for the saleslady that may not get the comission..but hey, they do overcharge a bit on their EGL certified stones!
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,534
Date: 11/26/2006 12:09:29 PM
Author: courtneyclv
I held up a I or even a J stone next to the F and I thought...''ewww'' But I do not think it was a G or H.
Ya have to compare apples to apples ... realistically your EGL "F" is probably a GIA "H"
. There really are 1-2 grade level discrepancies between "lesser" certs and "better" certs (GIA & AGS).

And the EGL "I"s and "J"s you were seeing as *ewww* ... were probably "K"s or "L"s ... there are some GORGEOUS GIA "K"s around pricescope ... especially in super ideal cut rounds which hide a lot of body color due to their dispersement of light.

If you want a bigger stone - SOMETHING has to give. Maybe you should try to sell the old e-ring through a vendor. You might decide you don''t want ANYTHING from that B&M jewelry store once you realize the high mark ups are just gonna break even with your "trade in amount"?? Maybe you should go with a simple solitare setting for now in order to get the biggest rock for the budget?

It does sound like you''re not going to be happy with the ring you have on hold - or why would you still be looking. Be honest with your fiance if you DON''T want it -- it''s clear he doesn''t understand why you keep looking if you LOVE that one.
 

courtneyclv

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
125
UPDATE...JUST WENT TO THE ORIGINAL JEWELER

I went to the mall jeweler after work. I knew that my saleslady wasnt there and knew one of the managers was. I looked at my setting again and still LOVE LOVE LOVE IT! (channel set baguette sides, engraved and pave on sides, very classy, sparkly, perfect.) And also.. LOVE the entire ring but IF I can get a larger stone for the same price, why not?

I said need pricing for making a custom wedding band and I know that the setting for this ring is $2300. The lady said that seemed low because it is platinum. I said that Brenda told me the center was $7300 and that plus the $2300 would be $9500. (the total cost) She said that she doesn''t think the center stone is that much...
So I told her I want to get all the pricing because I am meeting with a broker to get my center stone. I told her I can possibly get a larger one for the same price. I want to know how much the center stone and setting is, seperatly so that I can compare and see if I should go with this stone, or another with the broker.

THEN SHE SAYS... Well, I will have Brenda call you when she comes back on Tuesday and will talk to the jeweler about the cost of the setting, custom band, and center stone. Make sure to bring information of what the broker said because we can always try to match his or her price to make you happy. (but she also seemed annoyed)

So that being said..I am researching all night and will try to find stones as close to mine as I can..and will also print out some stones that are in the $7300 range (if that even is the right price?) to show her they are larger.

:)

Courtney



(applause)
 

courtneyclv

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
125
CHANGE OF PLANS..

The ''broker'' didn''t even give me a ''deal'' The information is posted on my other post about the 1.5 I looked at..here is the

http://https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-for-fun-what-do-you-think-of-this-1-5-princess-pics-too.54183/

My friend sends everyone to this guy. She got a 3 1/2 carat princess from him and two of my other friends also use him. He told me what his cost is...then I have to add 15%. When you add that, the prices seemed ''normal'' to me. He said he can try to take off 1-3% more..whoo hoo.. a couple hundred dollars. SO WHAT!!!??? I guess I was expecting a couple of thousand off. So, knowing that, I am back to the mall jeweler because of the credit, which BF insists on doing. He''s paying..so thats fine!

So I went back to the mall jeweler and told Brenda her that I am not going with the mall broker because I do want to buy the center stone from her, but at the right price. She says again that the F color 1.21 is an incredible stone at a great price. But again, I say.. "I want to go a bit larger and go down in color to no more than H..I also will go down to an SI1 if it is eye clean and a good cut I will pay $8500 at the most if you can find me what I am looking for" So she is looking...

There has to be some kind of larger diamond out there, around 1.5, that is H color, SI1-2, that has awesome polish and symmetry that she can get ahold of? Maybe I am doing all of this work for nothing. The diamond with the link above WAS small...my friends 1.5 looked huge on finger and it didn''t..

Silly question...can Brenda get her diamonds from anywhere I suggest at her cost, or does she have to go with the stores broker.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,048
I would assume that the store has suppliers from whom they get their stones. Tell her to try and find two or three in that range for you to choose from and once you post the specs, people here can help you know which is best.
 

:)

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
1,864
Tell her only GIA or AGS, no more EGL... (possibly EGL USA, but not EGL elsewhere)
 

ImpatientOne

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,394
Courtney, I am not sure about your specific jeweler, but I also bought my setting from a mall jeweler and when it came time for them to bring the stones in, they brought in 4 from 4 different suppliers, graded by three different graders (one GIA, two IGI (?) and one EGL). I went with the GIA as it was the best of the bunch and I felt confident with the grading.

Good luck!
 

winternight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
887
Date: 11/26/2006 11:07:32 AM
Author: ladykemma
hi courtney

remember to live within your means. you were speaking of financing the smaller ring, and now you are thinking of financing even a bigger stone. debt destroys marriages and lives. wouldn''t you rather have a nice home, stable marriage, than a large debt filled rock on your hand?

sleep on it?
I think this is really good advice. A carat is already a lovely stone and not too many people have a diamond that big.
 

courtneyclv

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
125
Don''t worry, BF is fine spending $2200 the setting and up to $8500 on the center stone..then I have $3700 off
 
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