Pls help me pick a birthday stone

[RosieR]

I’m starting my search for a special gift to myself birthday ring, and have come across an OEC. Do you think this would be a good stone? (GIA report number 5181696222)

Also, should I be using this chart https://www.pricescope.com/articles/screening_chart_old_european_cut_diamondsto screen potentials?

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[tyty333]

Unfortunately, numbers from a GIA report dont tell us enough about OECs to say whether its good or not. We need up close pictures, videos, or asets/ideal
scopes.

Post them if you have them.

 

[RosieR]

Thanks @tyty333 a video is available, but no asset or ideal scope. I think I may need to ask for more photos to get a better idea of the facet pattern too.

 

[lovedogs]

You can upload video to YouTube and then post here. But @tyty333 is correct that OECs can't be judged by numbers. We need to see how the stone performs in pics/video.

 

[RosieR]

Thanks @lovedogs and @tyty333
With this information I have decided not to get a stone from abroad, but one within the uk. At least this way I can see it in person. I Was just wondering if any British pricescopers knew of anywhere to get old cuts?

 

[RosieR]

Ok, so I’ve found another diamond, and it is at least in the same country as I am! No reliable certification but they are willing to send to anchor cert (the British assay office) which uses GIA master stones to grade. They have ‘guesstimated’ it is I colour and SI clarity 2.66 carats (though I think it may be J/K). On x10 magnification I noticed the girdle is a bit chipped but only on 1 side. The vendor is willing to send the stone away to be polished.

Please see the attached YouTube link to see a video of the diamond under shop lighting.

Hoping that some old cut lovers and uk pricescopers will chime in?

 

[RosieR]

I also have a close up of the faceting pattern. The dimensions are approx 8.5+ diameter and 6.5mm deep
Help from @dreamer_dachsie @tyty333 @lovedogs and @missy would be much appreciated
Yes the setting has been changed with this vendor from the plain solitaire to the pave shank.

 

[lovedogs]

I would be very hesitant to buy a stone without a cert (unless it was a super trusted vendor). Did the seller agree that if the stone comes back lower clarity/color that you don't need to buy it? That's important.

 

[RosieR]

I would be very hesitant to buy a stone without a cert (unless it was a super trusted vendor). Did the seller agree that if the stone comes back lower clarity/color that you don't need to buy it? That's important.

I don’t have to buy if the cert is not agreeable, they are willing to change the setting and polish the stone to get rid of the chips but warned I’d loose carat weight.

 

[Rfisher]

Great advice already given.
Can’t tell with out a professional unbiased report on the stats.
Price is so dependent on this, plus you knowing what you have. (Let’s put it this way - a trusted PS vendor sent me a OEC he swore had no surface reaching feather. It had a huge canyon running across the table and crown!)
I also would need to know more before I decided to have it polished/recut. They state you’ll lose carat weight- if more than a few points lost isn’t that a recutting scenario - not repolishing?
I see the chip. To me it really depends on the condition of rest of stone what other chips/feathers ( and whatever else) are in there.
But what I do see is the quite possible lovely facet pattern! The pic isn’t dead on straight so it’s not perfectly symmetrical, but sometimes you got to give a little. It’s just you being ok (and price appropriate) on where that is.

 

[missy]

Hi @RosieR can we see a video in natural daylight?

As others have said we need to see old cuts with our eyes to know if it is pleasing. If you could share more videos (without spot lighting) and as many close up pics as you can it would be helpful. To view the on/off facets (you dont want everything on and off at the same time), if light is evenly distributed across the stone, if the facet pattern is pleasing to you, is it a lively stone, etc.

As for price a fair price has to be determined by the real stats. Preferably GIA if possible. It's the only way to know if what you are paying is a fair price.

Happy birthday in advance and I hope you find your dream OEC!

 

[RosieR]

Hi @RosieR can we see a video in natural daylight?

As others have said we need to see old cuts with our eyes to know if it is pleasing. If you could share more videos (without spot lighting) and as many close up pics as you can it would be helpful. To view the on/off facets (you dont want everything on and off at the same time), if light is evenly distributed across the stone, if the facet pattern is pleasing to you, is it a lively stone, etc.

As for price a fair price has to be determined by the real stats. Preferably GIA if possible. It's the only way to know if what you are paying is a fair price.

Happy birthday in advance and I hope you find your dream OEC!

That’s for the reply @missy.
I will return to the shop when then owner is back from holiday in a couple of weeks to clarify details and take further pictures. I don’t have natural daylight pictures, but the ring was in the window and she winked at me in the sunshine from the shopfront! It’s sooo difficult to capture the facets but I do have this picture from the website which is head on.
Thanks for the birthday wishes, I’m not 40 until October 2020, so I have plenty of time to get this purchase right.

 

[RosieR]

Great advice already given.
Can’t tell with out a professional unbiased report on the stats.
Price is so dependent on this, plus you knowing what you have. (Let’s put it this way - a trusted PS vendor sent me a OEC he swore had no surface reaching feather. It had a huge canyon running across the table and crown!)
I also would need to know more before I decided to have it polished/recut. They state you’ll lose carat weight- if more than a few points lost isn’t that a recutting scenario - not repolishing?
I see the chip. To me it really depends on the condition of rest of stone what other chips/feathers ( and whatever else) are in there.
But what I do see is the quite possible lovely facet pattern! The pic isn’t dead on straight so it’s not perfectly symmetrical, but sometimes you got to give a little. It’s just you being ok (and price appropriate) on where that is.

Thanks @Rfisher you are right we can guesstimate and infer until the cows come home but we really need facts. I will speak with the shop owner when he comes back from holiday in a couple of weeks and seek his opinion on the chip on the side of the stone.

I’m comfortable with an eye clean bright and lively transitional style cut stone with no noticeable inclusions. For the price £10,000 this could work. They are also willing to take my unworn Cartier love bracelet as part exchange.

I was just wondering if I should purchase as ASET Scope to help determine the light performance?

 

[RosieR]

Well a dealer has reached out to me with my preferred specs and stone size WITH a GIA! J colour SI clarity 2.6 carats 8.7mm diameter. Here is the ASET but I don’t know how to read it
Calling @OoohShiny and @Karl_K for assistance please and thank you

 

[OoohShiny]

That is a somewhat confusing ASET - black background round the stone should mean black areas of leakage within the stone...

It's like they've cut it out from a white background and pasted it onto a black background?!

Working on the basis of the latter, the white shows areas of leakage - so you have some light return from different angles around you and the environment (red and green) and some contrast from obstruction from your head (blue) but also some leakage, which could mean you could see your finger or the setting behind the stone.



The ASETscope image is taken from only one angle, though - the facets may work well from other angles, and you don't stare at your stone perpendicular to the table all the time!

Do you have a video of it to check it out when it's moving?

You'll need high quality photos to check the SI inclusions as well!


EDIT: It just occurred to me that it looks like an electronic ASET - have they scanned the diamond with a SARN scanner or similar and plugged the angles into an ASET calculation program? The electronic ASETs will be different to the physical ASETscope images because the electronic ones use different angles for each delineation between the red/green/blue bands IIRC.

 

[RosieR]

That is a somewhat confusing ASET - black background round the stone should mean black areas of leakage within the stone...

It's like they've cut it out from a white background and pasted it onto a black background?!

Working on the basis of the latter, the white shows areas of leakage - so you have some light return from different angles around you and the environment (red and green) and some contrast from obstruction from your head (blue) but also some leakage, which could mean you could see your finger or the setting behind the stone.



The ASETscope image is taken from only one angle, though - the facets may work well from other angles, and you don't stare at your stone perpendicular to the table all the time!

Do you have a video of it to check it out when it's moving?

You'll need high quality photos to check the SI inclusions as well!


EDIT: It just occurred to me that it looks like an electronic ASET - have they scanned the diamond with a SARN scanner or similar and plugged the angles into an ASET calculation program? The electronic ASETs will be different to the physical ASETscope images because the electronic ones use different angles for each delineation between the red/green/blue bands IIRC.

Thanks for taking the time with this @OoohShiny the stone is with Michelle at Parris jewels she reached out to me via Instagram and has great online reviews (@parrisjewels sorry I’m on my phone and struggling to post the link without the app opening on my phone) it’s currently the 3rd photo on her page. I really can’t make out much of the facet pattern with this one so I may pass on it but it could just be the lighting she took the video with.

 

[OoohShiny]

I think it is this one?
https://www.instagram.com/p/B056sConkWL/

It's not jumping out at me personally - it perhaps looks a bit dark under the table, but that might be a dark phone held close to the stone creating excess obstruction to how it appears in real life.

If you are pondering it, nothing wrong with asking for some more photos/videos in different lighting

 

[RosieR]

I think it is this one?
https://www.instagram.com/p/B056sConkWL/

It's not jumping out at me personally - it perhaps looks a bit dark under the table, but that might be a dark phone held close to the stone creating excess obstruction to how it appears in real life.

If you are pondering it, nothing wrong with asking for some more photos/videos in different lighting

Yeah, it doesn’t jump out at me either which is why I asked for the aset after she suggested it. Her 1st diamond suggestion was the 2 carat OEC on her page which has beautiful facets and looked good when she sent me a natural daylight video. Just I was swayed when I saw the 2.66 at the pawnshop when I was passing through Birmingham on Monday, and being the pricescoper that I am, thought I could carry off a larger diamond

 

[OoohShiny]

Yeah, it doesn’t jump out at me either which is why I asked for the aset after she suggested it. Her 1st diamond suggestion was the 2 carat OEC on her page which has beautiful facets and looked good when she sent me a natural daylight video. Just I was swayed when I saw the 2.66 at the pawnshop when I was passing through Birmingham on Monday, and being the pricescoper that I am, thought I could carry off a larger diamond

Well, it never hurts to look and it is good to rule out the 'what if...' thoughts!

 

[Dreamer_D]

For me with old cuts, cut is everything and with experienced eyes, you can trust what you see. I love the cut of the local diamond you posted up thread. The faceting is stunning. Determining value is difficult bc color and clarity dramatically affect price and those are unknown. Ideally you need a local independent appraiser to help you, not one who is paid by the seller.

 

[RosieR]

Well I made it back to the shop and the owner was in. He has sent the stone off to be polished and off to anchor cert. He says there will be minimal weight loss. I took another video in natural daylight, however it being the uk, we have had horrible cold drizzle and rain all day. I also have another indoor video, but it shows the facet patterns a bit better. I’m traveling now so will try and upload it in a bit. I also tried to use @yssie technique of the red colour under the stone to check for light leakage, but I don’t think it worked

 

[RosieR]

@missy here is a link to the ring in natural daylight.

FYI I was wearing cream, the security guard and shop assistant are both wearing black and my phone case is black. The weather yesterday was truly appalling totally overcast and raining all day. There is a bit of yellow light coming from over my shoulder from the bright shop window. You can clearly see the warmth in the stone, but it could be environmental?

 

[RosieR]

Well the stone has come back from the cutter and is now 2.62carats

It’s looks WAY more sparkly than before and it was already quite a lively stone. @AV_ mentioned that it could be that they faceted the girdle whilst polishing out the chip.

 

[Lykame]

Well the stone has come back from the cutter and is now 2.62carats

It’s looks WAY more sparkly than before and it was already quite a lively stone. @AV_ mentioned that it could be that they faceted the girdle whilst polishing out the chip.

That looks stunning! Any further information on it? And more photos under different lighting please. It looks amazing but it's under heavy lighting.

I'm sure the others with actual old cut experience will chime in some more with this exciting update.

 

[RosieR]

Ok, the stats are in following the repolish it’s:

K colour,

SI Clarity,

Faceted girdle

No fluorescent

Good polish

8.44x8.91x5.55


I’ve been told that there is another interested party and I need to make a decision by the end of the week. Hoping @LLJsmom and @_AV can chime in
Videos in natural daylight to follow

 

[GearGirly]

It seems to be a pretty stone to me, I like the facet pattern. If that’s not GIA graded it would more likely be an L or even an M. L is my favorite color for an OEC, but for price maybe do a comparison with say jewels by Grace for similar size and color to get the price. If you like the price and you have seen it in person and love it, that’s the way to buy an OEC to me. I really like the pictures of it.

 

[RosieR]

It seems to be a pretty stone to me, I like the facet pattern. If that’s not GIA graded it would more likely be an L or even an M. L is my favorite color for an OEC, but for price maybe do a comparison with say jewels by Grace for similar size and color to get the price. If you like the price and you have seen it in person and love it, that’s the way to buy an OEC to me. I really like the pictures of it.

Thanks so much for getting back to me @GearGirly
I’ve just had a look on jewels by Grace website, and the comps are WAY more expensive https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/2-67ct-antique-cushion-cut-diamond-gia-l-vs1 and I will have to factor in international shipping and 20% tax on top. Also the vendor is happy to take my almost unworn Cartier love bangle as part payment, which makes it makes it even cheaper.
Here is a video of the stone in natural daylight on a relatively sunny day

 

[Sagefemme]

A bit of zooming in on the daylight video would have been nice, but it does look like a nice bright stone. Do you love it? Heart rate speeds up a bit?

 

[junebug17]

I'm not an expert @RosieR but it looks really pretty to me! The video was a little hard to see but it looks sparkly and lively to my eye.

 

[LLJsmom]

It looks sparkly and lively. But it astonishes me that sellers don’t know how to take a good video. It’s so easy. Can you ask them to Rest it between their fingers on a closed hand facing down and just rock around in a circle? Is there a return policy? It’s defiant worth a look.