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PLEASE READ: Why my stone was sent to GIA

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Ellen

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I would like to preface this post by saying that this is not to debate the labs. That has been done ad nauseum. It is simply to show why a perfectly good stone was sent to GIA and not AGS, which was prompted by yet another recent thread on which lab was preferred, and the comments that followed.


When I bought my diamond online a little over a year ago, the last thing I was worried about was that GIA graded it. I had tried to do my homework, and knew that the numbers and IS image were what was going to tell me if the stone was a good pick or not. I found one, and everything looked great. I did not find out until later that it was an Isee2. Bonus! (just an FYI, they are one of a handful that cut an extremely tight diamond, and the light return has been said to be some of the best by a well respected expert on here)


After receiving it, I was blown away. It was stunning. Having briefly owned an AGS Ideal before (not light performance graded, but with very desirable numbers) there was no comparison. This new stone outshined the other by a mile. No pun intended.



So, one might imagine my annoyance at owning an extremely well cut, branded diamond, and having to hear it referred to as, "not the creme of the crop, not the richest dessert, a dog, a Ford" etc., simply because it had a GIA grading report. I wondered to myself, how can these negative comments (read speculation) constantly be made? How can these people possibly KNOW why each and every stone doesn't get to AGS. I believed they didn't, to a certain extent. So by the last thread, I decided to do something, instead of "speculating" as to why my diamond wasn't sent to AGS. I decided to contact Isee2 and actually ask them why.


The reason is amazingly simple, and not the one that is constantly given around here. In the beginning Isee2 sent their stones to AGS, but the retailers in the Asian market did not recognize AGS very well, and asked Isee2 to send them to GIA, which was more readily recognized. Isee2 then started sending stones to GIA. Since then, AGS is becoming better recognized there.


That's it. It's not because it couldn't make the grade. It's not because it's "a dog, not the richest dessert, not the creme of the crop" and it's certainly not "akin to a Ford".


What it is, is a truly stunning stone that happened to be graded by GIA. I'm certain it's not the only one. And I believe there may be other legitimate reasons out there. I hope people reading this who may be searching for a stone will heed this post, otherwise, you may be passing up some outstanding diamonds.


In conclusion, I hope this post serves a second, and more important purpose. That is, to prompt posters to pause before speculating or making blanket statements about GIA stones. Ones I might add, that may very well insult many other posters on here.
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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12,578
Thank you for posting this Ellen. Very interesting.


This will be helpful to a lot of people - including me.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Hi Ellen,

Was reading here this morning and came across your post. Lately I haven''t been able to be here as much as I''d like but if people on this forum are blindly recommending against GIA stones or placing blind faith in a predictive technology that recommends against such cherry stones as the one you have they are being mislead and misguided with faulty information.

While there will be differences between an 11 and a 5 grade system, just because one stone was sent to one or the other lab doesn''t amount to a hill of beans and to speculate for the reasons you stated is just bad form. Each diamond stands or falls on its own merits. The AGS system, while having more grades in its system, has its problems too and there are instances where I''d recommend a GIA stone over AGS (and vice versa of course). Balance and a knowledge of all the information is key to making an educated decision and oftentimes one doesn''t have the whole picture, especially from a consumers perspective and I mean no disrespect by that but most amateurs that participate here are oblivious to all the factors constituting the stones that comprise those diamonds that fall in the zenith of both GIA and AGS top grades. I''m glad you called Isee2 to investigate the reasons for yourself. I am intimately familiar with your GIA graded diamond Ellen and it is one of the rarest and most beautiful diamonds cut on the face of this planet. Don''t you, for one second feel like you have an inferior product.

Peace,
Jonathan
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
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8,266
Date: 3/23/2007 9:59:21 AM
Author: Rhino
Hi Ellen,

Was reading here this morning and came across your post. Lately I haven''t been able to be here as much as I''d like but if people on this forum are blindly recommending against GIA stones or placing blind faith in a predictive technology that recommends against such cherry stones as the one you have they are being mislead and misguided with faulty information.

.....
Peace,
Jonathan
Your wording is strong and worrisome. Can you please give a link to an example where "people on this forum are blindly recommend against GIA stones", and where consumers were "misguided with faulty information"?
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
29,570
Well said Ellen!!!!
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,427
Maise, you are welcome, I hope it does help. And thanks Lorelei.




Jon, indeed there have been blind recommendations made.

I totally agree with your post, and yes, each diamond does stand or fall on it''s own merits. You don''t have to tell me how beautiful my stone is, I know!
And I always did.

What prompted me to post was that knowledge. I relay this information totally in an educational and hopefully helpful light. I hope I have achieved that.


However, I would be remiss not to add that I had just the slightest inclination to throw in a neener, neener at the end.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,427
Date: 3/23/2007 10:20:25 AM
Author: Pricescope

Date: 3/23/2007 9:59:21 AM
Author: Rhino
Hi Ellen,

Was reading here this morning and came across your post. Lately I haven''t been able to be here as much as I''d like but if people on this forum are blindly recommending against GIA stones or placing blind faith in a predictive technology that recommends against such cherry stones as the one you have they are being mislead and misguided with faulty information.

.....
Peace,
Jonathan
Your wording is strong and worrisome. Can you please give a link to an example where ''people on this forum are blindly recommend against GIA stones'', and where consumers were ''misguided with faulty information''?
I am not Jon, but since I agreed with him on this, I will point out one I feel falls under this category of blindly recommending against GIA. It''s in Ira''s post, the first paragraph.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-is-preferred-gia-or-ags.59445/
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Date: 3/23/2007 10:20:25 AM
Author: Pricescope

Date: 3/23/2007 9:59:21 AM
Author: Rhino
Hi Ellen,

Was reading here this morning and came across your post. Lately I haven''t been able to be here as much as I''d like but if people on this forum are blindly recommending against GIA stones or placing blind faith in a predictive technology that recommends against such cherry stones as the one you have they are being mislead and misguided with faulty information.

.....
Peace,
Jonathan
Your wording is strong and worrisome. Can you please give a link to an example where ''people on this forum are blindly recommend against GIA stones'', and where consumers were ''misguided with faulty information''?
Just took the time to read through the other thread. I got the impression from Ellen''s post that that was what was happening but see that folks were just stating opinions.

Ellen ... don''t sweat it really. Everyone has opinions on who they think is best etc. Frankly I don''t have a best as I don''t take sides on this issue. As I had stated, let each diamond stand or fall on its own merits with a cohesive knowledge of what it is they''re buying.

Peace,
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 3/23/2007 10:28:13 AM
Author: Ellen
Maise, you are welcome, I hope it does help. And thanks Lorelei.




Jon, indeed there have been blind recommendations made.

I totally agree with your post, and yes, each diamond does stand or fall on it''s own merits. You don''t have to tell me how beautiful my stone is, I know!
And I always did.

What prompted me to post was that knowledge. I relay this information totally in an educational and hopefully helpful light. I hope I have achieved that.


However, I would be remiss not to add that I had just the slightest inclination to throw in a neener, neener at the end.
good for you! The whole system disgruntles me. This last backlash against GIA is another example of bandwagonning. Someone leads a carrot over here or over there and everyone just laps it up nodding. I think the term bobblehead may apply. Directed at no one in particular of course.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Date: 3/23/2007 10:20:25 AM
Author: Pricescope

Date: 3/23/2007 9:59:21 AM
Author: Rhino
Hi Ellen,

Was reading here this morning and came across your post. Lately I haven''t been able to be here as much as I''d like but if people on this forum are blindly recommending against GIA stones or placing blind faith in a predictive technology that recommends against such cherry stones as the one you have they are being mislead and misguided with faulty information.

.....
Peace,
Jonathan
Your wording is strong and worrisome. Can you please give a link to an example where ''people on this forum are blindly recommend against GIA stones'', and where consumers were ''misguided with faulty information''?
Just one point of note Leo ... I did say *if*. I wasn''t making accusations.

I''ve seen what Ellen has here and its not the first time a person was made to feel they were getting an inferior product with a GIA graded stone. I understand why she wrote what she did.
 

Unearthed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
103
Before I knew a thing about diamonds and was just lurking here and searching for my own, I can tell you the impression I got was the AGS was the "Preferred" grader. I even remember when I was searching on BN choosing to look for only AGS graded stones. I don''t think people are regularly blindly recommending stones based on the grader...but there is this little tidbit of fact that hops out at you when you first start reading this forum. People here are nuts about their cut. The GIA doesn''t appear as tough on grading "Cut" as the AGS is. I''m no expert, but I can look at the HCA, I can listen to the experts here, I can draw my own conclusions that I am more likely to get a better cut diamond if I buy an AGS000 than if I buy a GIA Excellent if I don''t educate myself on angles and how important they are.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,427
Date: 3/23/2007 10:32:40 AM
Author: Rhino

Just took the time to read through the other thread. I got the impression from Ellen''s post that that was what was happening but see that folks were just stating opinions.

Ellen ... don''t sweat it really. Everyone has opinions on who they think is best etc. Frankly I don''t have a best as I don''t take sides on this issue. As I had stated, let each diamond stand or fall on its own merits with a cohesive knowledge of what it is they''re buying.

Peace,
Yes, it is just their opinion, but often stated more as a fact (which is how I read Ira''s post, which also states many experts believe this), and many (new posters) put weight in their words, and I truly believe some go on to ignore GIA stones.


So that is why I wanted to try and put to rest this myth that if a stone won''t make the grade, it get''s sent to GIA. It''s simply not true, and it shouldn''t be said, imo.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Well said ellen.
The diamond I got for wifey2b is graded by GIA and is also one of the best cut diamonds in the world.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,427
Kaleigh and strm, thank you.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Date: 3/23/2007 10:51:51 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 3/23/2007 10:32:40 AM
Author: Rhino

Just took the time to read through the other thread. I got the impression from Ellen''s post that that was what was happening but see that folks were just stating opinions.

Ellen ... don''t sweat it really. Everyone has opinions on who they think is best etc. Frankly I don''t have a best as I don''t take sides on this issue. As I had stated, let each diamond stand or fall on its own merits with a cohesive knowledge of what it is they''re buying.

Peace,
Yes, it is just their opinion, but often stated more as a fact (which is how I read Ira''s post, which also states many experts believe this), and many (new posters) put weight in their words, and I truly believe some go on to ignore GIA stones.


So that is why I wanted to try and put to rest this myth that if a stone won''t make the grade, it get''s sent to GIA. It''s simply not true, and it shouldn''t be said, imo.
Understood. I recall quite a few situations where in the minds of the readers here opinions were being stated as fact and influencing many.
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
I agree with you Ellen. When we were looking we looked at mostly GIA graded diamonds as those seemed to be in the majority. I actually saw no AGS diamonds when we were looking locally only GIA. I had to educate myself on AGS and what people thought about their grading.

Also, I find that with RBs I tend to look at the numbers and the IS images and ASET images since I know a little more about RBs. When it comes to princesses, I will usually just stick to AGS light performance graded diamonds for recommendations not because I don''t respect GIA but because I don''t know enough about them to analyze the numbers so I rely on the AGS light grading as a way to feel more secure recommending something. It is because I am not educated enough to use my own analysis. Maybe as an amateur I shouldn''t even give my recommendations but I get excited about finding something that fits someones budget and other requirements, it is fun for me. And other than rounds and princesses, I don''t even post suggestions because I am REALLY uneducated so I just read and learn from those that know more about them (cushions, emerald, asschers, etc)

In any case, your point about GIA and AGS both being well respected labs is totally valid.
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
i don't think people are 'blindly' recommending ags. ags makes diamond buying easy with it's grading system and there are many, many people here that have ags graded diamonds that are spectacular. because of that, they recommend what they are comfortable with and what they know is good. does that mean that diamonds other than those graded by ags are inferior? not at all. but, it does take some more investigation, as you did, to find out *why* a gia diamond is what it is.
for your one diamond that was sent to gia, for what was found out to be a 'good' reason, there are 50 thousand (that is a coinage phrase, not a verified number) others that are sent because they will look better on paper, than if they were sent to ags. of course, that isn't the *only* reason, but we can't even begin to assume the 'why'. no one explanation, even a good one, can be used for all diamonds. the same goes with egl and igi and other labs. it is kind of like the recommendations for certain vendors here. are they the ONLY vendors that carry great diamonds? no, they are just who we are comfortable buying from and recommending because we know that we can depend on them. i am in no way trying to belittle your diamond by pointing this out, rather i am offering the suggestion that a recommendation for ags is not always a bad thing. and we certainly should not take it personally!
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Date: 3/23/2007 10:51:51 AM
Author: Ellen
Yes, it is just their opinion, but often stated more as a fact (which is how I read Ira's post, which also states many experts believe this), and many (new posters) put weight in their words, and I truly believe some go on to ignore GIA stones.
Why is it they remember here, but not here....?

Thank you unearthed.

Perhaps this is a case of understanding...all college graduates also graduated high school, but not all high school graduates, graduated college.

If you're looking for someone who can make pizza, this is a distinction not worth noting. Choose either.

If you're looking for someone who has a skill set of someone who would have graduated college...looking at a list of high school graduates will be pretty good, but not as good as the former. If you're looking for a bargain...and have chosen to ferret through a list of people that can only choose to designate them selves one way...as a high school graduate or a college graduate...I bet there's a chance that you'll get a discount, finding a college graduate in the one who chose to list only as a HS graduate. This, of course, is because the college graduate list demands the premium, generally. Then again...if your high school cum college graduate also comes with another pedigree giving him or her additional value...say, having gone to cooking school (nothing to do with ISEE)...so long as you actually want a good cook...and that you're paying a premium consistent with your end results...everything's ok.

Right?


(eta...btw...I'm a fan of discounts. After a week of educating myself 2 1/2 years ago on this board...I did get a GIA certed diamond...knowing mostly that it scored well on the HCA...and not even knowing then it was an FIC...that would put it outside of the spheres of either AGS or GIA premium valuations...)
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 3/23/2007 10:46:26 AM
Author: Unearthed
Before I knew a thing about diamonds and was just lurking here and searching for my own, I can tell you the impression I got was the AGS was the ''Preferred'' grader. I even remember when I was searching on BN choosing to look for only AGS graded stones. I don''t think people are regularly blindly recommending stones based on the grader...but there is this little tidbit of fact that hops out at you when you first start reading this forum. People here are nuts about their cut. The GIA doesn''t appear as tough on grading ''Cut'' as the AGS is. I''m no expert, but I can look at the HCA, I can listen to the experts here, I can draw my own conclusions that I am more likely to get a better cut diamond if I buy an AGS000 than if I buy a GIA Excellent if I don''t educate myself on angles and how important they are.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,427
As I feared, this is beginning to get off into AGS vs. GIA. That''s not my point here. And I never said AGS doesn''t have great diamonds, they do! I own a couple, and recommend them often.

Maybe I read things differently, but to me, when someone says, "If a stone can''t make the grade, it goes to GIA", what else am I to deduce (say I''m a newbie) but that GIA stones aren''t desirable (because almost everyone does want a desirable stone). To me, that IS a blanket statement that does indeed "blindly" recommend AGS. No one knows why every stone goes to each lab, that''s my point. To go any further on this goes back to one lab vs. another. I''m well aware of the faults, again, that was not the point of this post.


And Ira, I''m sorry, you lost me on that link. I honestly don''t know what you''re saying.
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Ellen and Jonathan, with respect, I still do not understand, what caused your generalizations about "people here", "misleading", "myth", etc.

I ask you to word your posts more carefully in the future because such generalizations are stirring the pot and turn members against each other. I think it is not constructive and rather passive-aggressive. I suggest, if you disagree with a particular opinion of a particular poster, please provide your counterargument to that post or at least refer/link to it.

I personally do not think that there is a trend to advise anybody against buying GIA graded diamonds here. Similar to other brands, like Tiffany vs Blue Nile, some folks might prefer GIA over AGS brand and vice versa. It is an emotional purchase and different lab brand can appeal more to different people based on different factors including quality, information, price, and marketing. See attached ad.

A diamond is a diamond no matter what paper it comes with. By the way, HRD and IGI are rather strong brands outside America. Many manufacturers send their diamonds to different labs including GIA and AGS for different reasons: convenience, cost, turnover time, market, brand, etc. Manufacturers and wholesalers also know which lab can give a better grade for different color and clarity ranges.

It is not a reason not to like the diamond you bought or to put down anybody else diamonds unless a person feel insecure about it – then I'd advise seeking an opinion of independent professional, not a vendor with invested interests.

As for criticism that GIA is getting here, it is natural that experts and consumers may question their products considering that GIA portrait themselves as "the world’s foremost authority in gemology™".

What worries me, as admin on the forum, is the pattern of personal communications between vendors and consumers that realizes into brainwashing, intrigues on the forums and turning members against each other and community as a whole. I strongly believe it is not acceptable and should be stopped. Vendors should make sure to avoid such activity if they want to be part of this community.

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