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Please help me. (ovals)

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Vintagegirl11

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
19
I'm sorry, I feel like a complete and utter novice. I hope that I'm posting in the right area. I am ver interested in an oval solitaire engagement ring, as close to a carat as possible but under $3500. Can you please give me your expert opinions on which of the following two diamonds you would choose for a solitaire, white gold setting? Thank you so much!

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1474887.asp?a_aid=dmnd1357&chan=x

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1446157.asp


The .95's dimensions are bigger than the 1.16. Does that mean the 1.16 has a lot of dead weight?
 
Thank you so much!
 
Vintagegirl11|1335836588|3184495 said:
I'm sorry, I feel like a complete and utter novice. I hope that I'm posting in the right area. I am ver interested in an oval solitaire engagement ring, as close to a carat as possible but under $3500. Can you please give me your expert opinions on which of the following two diamonds you would choose for a solitaire, white gold setting? Thank you so much!

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1474887.asp?a_aid=dmnd1357&chan=x

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1446157.asp


The .95's dimensions are bigger than the 1.16. Does that mean the 1.16 has a lot of dead weight?
Click to expand...

The first one has a really long length to width ratio. Has a huge bowtie. I personally wouldn't want this stone.

The second one IS overdeep though. You rarely see ovals with depths in the 70's and this one is nearly 73 in depth BUT it has no bowtie and if you like that faceting it's actually could be a great looking oval. Yes, it is like an iceberg, a lot of hidden weight. But I also assume this one has a pricing discount to make up for that. It still faces up at 7x5 so the size is okay. If you like this one it might be worth getting an ASET on it. If the price is really good (it's on hold so I can't see the price).
 
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VVS2-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1306416.asp Beautiful faceting high crown. 2,400 out the door.

I clarity, but there is a chance this one might be eyeclean. If it IS eyeclean AND the feathers do not break the surface it's got potential: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-I1-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1335827.asp Nice spread, small table.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1426658.asp IF this one is eyclean (I doubt it, but worth asking) this one is beautiful. The faceting has a lot of potential. Tiny table, nice spread, plus a J with strong florescence (but not blue, so ask what color it fluoresces at and ask what effect it has on the diamond).

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VVS1-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1195109.asp

I would ask the gemologist to pull all five (including that over deep iceberg you posted up top) and pick the BRIGHTEST, most beautifully cut TWO of them. And then get an ASET of those two. Also ask if there are any stones that they would recommend that are not on your list, and then ask them why they suggest that one, and post it here for us to help you.
 
Gypsy|1335838248|3184511 said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VVS2-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1306416.asp Beautiful faceting high crown. 2,400 out the door.

I clarity, but there is a chance this one might be eyeclean. If it IS eyeclean AND the feathers do not break the surface it's got potential: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-I1-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1335827.asp Nice spread, small table.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1426658.asp IF this one is eyclean (I doubt it, but worth asking) this one is beautiful. The faceting has a lot of potential. Tiny table, nice spread, plus a J with strong florescence (but not blue, so ask what color it fluoresces at and ask what effect it has on the diamond).

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VVS1-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1195109.asp

I would ask the gemologist to pull all five (including that over deep iceberg you posted up top) and pick the BRIGHTEST, most beautifully cut TWO of them. And then get an ASET of those two. Also ask if there are any stones that they would recommend that are not on your list, and then ask them why they suggest that one, and post it here for us to help you.
Click to expand...


gypsy it says strong blue?
 
slg47|1335841801|3184548 said:
Gypsy|1335838248|3184511 said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1426658.asp IF this one is eyclean (I doubt it, but worth asking) this one is beautiful. The faceting has a lot of potential. Tiny table, nice spread, plus a J with strong florescence (but not blue, so ask what color it fluoresces at and ask what effect it has on the diamond).
Click to expand...


gypsy it says strong blue?
Click to expand...


My bad. I didn't see that. I thought the certificate only said Strong, not Strong Blue. That's great. All the OP would need to do is ask to make sure the flouresence doesn't have a negative effect (I prefer stones with florescence) then.

Good catch. Thanks!
 
Hi Gypsy,
Thanks so much for the help. I'm so confused, how can something be called an "excellent cut" yet have all that dead weight and irregular dimensions? I do like the .91 vvs2 you posted- do you think the color depicted in the picture is a good representation of it in real life (I know you've never seen the diamond but in your experience).
 
Not to sound dim, but what's an ASET? I think the price was good- 2940 after the pricescope discount. What do you think?
 
Vintagegirl11|1335843341|3184559 said:
Hi Gypsy,
Thanks so much for the help. I'm so confused, how can something be called an "excellent cut" yet have all that dead weight and irregular dimensions? I do like the .91 vvs2 you posted- do you think the color depicted in the picture is a good representation of it in real life (I know you've never seen the diamond but in your experience).
Click to expand...

Excellent cut is a made up designation by JA. There are no cut qualifications for ovals. GIA and AGS only evaluate cut for rounds and AGS also does for princesses but no one does for ovals (or any other shape for that matter). JA made up their own set of spec parameters and any diamonds whose basic specs meet those qualifications meet that get an excellent. It really means very little. You can't buy fancies by the numbers. Period. You can evaluate them and make educated guesses but there are also exceptions, so beyond that you need pics and an ASET (here's what an ASET image is-- basically an image that shows what the light performance is-- how to read one http://www.lexusindia.in/products/gb-aset-scope.aspx ) to evaluate fancy cut diamonds.

What I did is simply look at the pics and the faceting and how bright the stone appears in the pics. With respect to color. No, I think that's just a mug shot of the stone. I don't think it's going to be an accurate representation of the color.

Dead weight and irregular dimensions aren't a valid observation with ovals, at least not the way you are using them. That over deep stone you picked doesn't have a bow tie because of the depth. So that's useful depth. Okay there is a lot of it, but it is having a positive effect. Yes it does have a negative impact on spread. But that's a trade off. Irregular dimensions doesn't mean anything really with ovals either. You don't buy a FANCY diamond based on dimensions and you don't wear dimensions on your hand. You buy a diamond for light performance and beauty. That's why I picked the diamond above based on the pics and then used the specs to rule out undesirable traits (very thin girdle, etc) and why I am advising you have someone actually VIEWING the stone in real life to narrow the selection. They finally chose the stone based on that person's comments and an ASET.
 
Vintagegirl11|1335843541|3184561 said:
I think the price was good- 2940 after the pricescope discount. What do you think?
Click to expand...


Yup. If we are talking about this one, I think the price is good. http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VVS2-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1306416.asp It does have an open culet, I personally love that about it. But I do want to point it out to you.

You should still have the gemologist to look at it for performance compared to a few others. But even if you don't have them do that, you need an ASET.

Here are the ones I'd have the gemologist look at with that one:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VVS1-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1195109.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1446157.asp

Have them evaluate all three and tell you which ones are the brightest.
 
Gypsy|1335838248|3184511 said:
I clarity, but there is a chance this one might be eyeclean. If it IS eyeclean AND the feathers do not break the surface it's got potential: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-I1-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1335827.asp Nice spread, small table.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1426658.asp IF this one is eyclean (I doubt it, but worth asking) this one is beautiful. The faceting has a lot of potential. Tiny table, nice spread, plus a J with strong florescence (but not blue, so ask what color it fluoresces at and ask what effect it has on the diamond).
Click to expand...


I WOULD encourage you to ask about these two as well though. They are both eight main cushion facet cuts and those are more rare than the four main cut, and usually (in my experience) are much better performing stones. If either of those is eyeclean, they REALLY might be the more beautiful stones of those available in your price range.
 
Okay one more thing. The deep oval you posted is not a four main oval (the first one you posted the really long one was a 4 main). Or an eight main. Here it is http://www.jamesallen.com/GIA-Diamond-Certificate/1446157/J-VS1-Good-Cut-1.16-Carat-Oval-Diamond.JPG If you look at the facet plot of this oval (this is the deep one)

And compare it to this one:

http://www.jamesallen.com/GIA-Diamond-Certificate/1195109/I-VVS1-Very%20Good-Cut-1.02-Carat-Oval-Diamond.JPG Four main oval.
And compare it to this one:

http://www.jamesallen.com/GIA-Diamond-Certificate/1426658/J-SI2-Very%20Good-Cut-1-Carat-Oval-Diamond.JPG Eight main oval

They all have different facet structures. Different CUTS of ovals. Different favors of the oval cut.

That's why there is no consistency with oval specs. Because there is no ONE faceting structure to evaluate and each facet structure has different requirements in order to make it successful. And that's why I said the deep one might still be beautiful and why it might be the MOST beautiful and bright one of the ones we've picked for you. AND why you need to evaluate fancy's on a case by case basis It is cut VERY differently than the others. And that faceting pattern might NEED to be deep for performance. And again... you want the brightest stone. The best performing stone. And that's why I also suggested the 8 main stones are worth a close look despite the clarity grades.
 
Hi! The 1.16 J was 2940 after the pricescope discount.

The .91 vvs2 you recommended is 2400 after the discount.

Are these good deals?
 
Wow Gypsy- you have given me some great information! I've spoken to the people at James Allen and they're going to do an ASET of the stones and send me critiques from the On Staff Gemologist. I'd love to post the info here for you and other forum members to review if it wouldn't be too much trouble?
 
Vintagegirl11|1335847967|3184591 said:
Hi! The 1.16 J was 2940 after the pricescope discount.

The .91 vvs2 you recommended is 2400 after the discount.

Are these good deals?
Click to expand...

JA, because of their business model (largely self serve), is one of the lower priced vendors on here. And they still manage to provide ASETs. The prices are very fair.

Look forward to the updates JA provides. :wavey:

YOU ONLY GET 3 ASETs. SO I would tell them to ONLY ASET the stones the gemologist says are the brightest. If the gemologist eliminates a stone, then you don't need an ASET of it.
 
Hi Gypsy,
So the gemologist is recommending the .91 that you had referred me to over the 1.16. I didn't ask about some of the others because I didn't care for the specs or some of the looks. Please let me know if I should be looking for anything else or should have them compare with anything else. I'm so excited! Thank you for referring that diamond- I never would have found it! I'm going to call to make the change this evening after I get home from work. Below is what I received:


Thank you for your patience while waiting for the gemologist inspection results and ASET images for diamonds 1306416 and 1446157. I've attached an interpretation guide for ASET images to the bottom of this email, so please read that over. Other customers have found it very helpful and I hope you agree!

I'm happy to say that diamond 1306416 (0.91crt I VVS2) has great light performance and is considerably brighter than diamond 1446157. It has a whiter appearance and due to its cut, only faces up slightly smaller than your other option. This is the overall better diamond and will provide you with a great value for you.

Diamond 1446157 (1.16crt J VS1) has the "crushed ice" look under the table and its light performance isn't as strong as your other option. It also doesn't appear as large as other oval cut diamonds of a similar carat weight due to the extra thickness of its girdle.

Diamond 1306416 is your brighter and overall more beautiful diamond. I strongly recommend setting up an "exchange" order so that your completed ring features this diamond rather than your current diamond. Please take a moment to review this information and let me know if you have any additional questions. I have extended your hold diamond 1306416 for an additional 24 hours while you consider your options. After that time we will release it back to our inventory.

To update your purchase, simply call our Customer Service department at 877-826-9866. We are staffed to assist you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Please don't hesitate to contact us with any additional questions. I hope to hear from you soon.

Best Regards,


Adam Blackstock | JamesAllen.com | Direct: 240.379.8376 | Toll Free: 877.826.9866 | 24/7 Customer Service

ASET History & Interpretation Guide
The ASET camera system was developed by AGS several years back as a method of determining the different types of light return/reflection in a diamond. The ASET camera system is based on the simple idea that as light travels towards a diamond, the direction of that light can be captured and recorded by a filter (or cone) placed above the diamond and painted (or colored) into different horizontal sections.

The bottom section of the filter is colored GREEN and represents light that comes from the horizontal plane. This light is often called "INDIRECT LIGHT" and so any GREEN in the diamond image is good and represents that indirect light being reflected back to the camera. The middle section of the filter is colored RED and represents light that comes from the most common angles (such as lights in a ceiling, the sun, etc). This light is referred to as DIRECT LIGHT. Since direct light is most common in real-life viewing environments, we hope to see lots of RED in the captured ASET image. The more RED, the better job the diamond is doing at reflecting light from its primary light sources. The top section of the filter is colored BLUE and represents light that is often blocked by the viewers head/body. This light is generally referred to as OBSTRUCTED. Obstructed light is important for creating contrast in a diamond and is what makes the arrows "pop" in a Hearts & Arrows diamond. Seeing BLUE in an ASET image is also good, although there should not be too much of it.

Lastly, the camera can capture areas in the diamond where light is "leaking", or not being reflected back to the viewer. In the ASET camera developed by AGS, this leakage is shown as BLACK. In other ASET camera setups, this leakage can appear as WHITE.

1306416aset.bmp.jpg

1306416aset.jpg
 
Okay. In the interest of full disclosure and for any lurkers or others that may read this thread: I have to tell you that I do think there might have been better performers than the two you chose to have compared in the diamonds I chose for you. The ASET is a bit underwelming and I would want a lot more red in the outline of the stone not just in the heart. In the choices I gave you there likely were stones with better light return-- especially those 8 main ovals. But I can understand not being comfortable with the clarity on them.

That said you went with the stone that looked best by your judgement and it is a better performer than the other one, so that's good. It doesn't seem to have a bow tie and it does seem to have bright center. In the picture the faceting is lovely and it has a cute open culet, plus the gemologist comments were favorable. And you are getting a nice sized stone for 2,400!

I hope you love it in person! Congratulations. :wavey: PLEASE post pics of the stone in person, I would love to see it on the hand!
 
Thanks Gypsy! Your knowledge has been invaluable. We'll receive the ring next week sometime and I'll post pictures and see how I feel about it. I've saved all of your recommendations and am prepared to go back to the searching game if necessary. Can I get your thoughts on this stone?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1465274.asp

And these

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1465305.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-VS1-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1435716.asp

(I know Ks are much warmer- but I'm realizing that I kind of like that look)

And based off specs alone:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-I1-Ideal-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1378273.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-I1-Ideal-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1462271.asp

I'm realizing now that I really should have opened up my search to the eye clean Si and I stones :/ live and learn!
 
Vintagegirl11|1336093615|3187047 said:
Thanks Gypsy! Your knowledge has been invaluable. We'll receive the ring next week sometime and I'll post pictures and see how I feel about it. I've saved all of your recommendations and am prepared to go back to the searching game if necessary. Can I get your thoughts on this stone?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1465274.asp
Click to expand...

What a strange faceting plot. It's a six main. It's deep AND it still have a noticable bow tie. So... not really happy about that at al. You can ask JA about how well that bow tie blends, but I think it's going to be pronounced. However it has a pretty shape and a nice small table. The ASET will probably show a lot of red right at that bow tie. If it shows red anywhere other than that it might be worth considering if the gemologist says the bow tie is not that noticeable. I like the Strong Blue.
 
Wow you're fast! I hope you don't mind- I posted others. I've learned a ton from you so you'll have to excuse my overzealousness, I'm just so excited that you have such an extensive knowledge base. Thank you so much!
 
No worries.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1465305.asp This one is hard because I think the stone is tilted in the photo. Twining wisps are a good inclusion for SI. And indented naturals don't bother me. The specs are good. I can't tell about the bow tie because of the tilt in the photo. There will be one but whether it's better or worse than the other I don't know. I suspect it might be a better more blended one. Another 6 main oval.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-VS1-Very%20Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1435716.asp Huge bowtie coupled with what might be some dead facets around it. Personally that would bother me. But if you like it you can ask for the gemologist to tell you what he thinks.

I can't tell you anything from the numbers honey on the other two. Two ovals with the same basic specs can have two entirely different appearance and performance. Ovals aren't like rounds that way. Too much variation I'm afraid. I just can't give you any advice on those.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-I1-Ideal-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1462271.asp this one at least has the certificate. I'm going to guess this one isn't eyeclean since it says crystals. And it's a four main. If it was an 8 main it might be worth asking more about, but there are a ton of four mains on JA right now, so I'd stick to those you can have pics for.
 
Ok, thank you- makes sense.

One more question, if you were me and you had the .91 with the ASET already purchased, the setting picked out, the engraving order and the whole 9 yards in production at JA would you just go ahead and wait for the finished product and see how it looks irl, knowing it can be returned without issue or would you halt production and start the search again?
 
Vintagegirl11|1336094826|3187062 said:
Ok, thank you- makes sense.

One more question, if you were me and you had the .91 with the ASET already purchased, the setting picked out, the engraving order and the whole 9 yards in production at JA would you just go ahead and wait for the finished product and see how it looks irl, knowing it can be returned without issue or would you halt production and start the search again?
Click to expand...


Will they return the engraved setting? If so... sure. If not, nope.
 
Why are 8 mains better than 4? Is it due to light reflection?
 
Yes, I'm keeping the same setting regardless. Even if I opted for a different setting there's a repolishing fee of $25. The return policy is quite good.
 
Vintagegirl11|1336095457|3187077 said:
Yes, I'm keeping the same setting regardless. Even if I opted for a different setting there's a repolishing fee of $25. The return policy is quite good.
Click to expand...

I just meant that the stone's dimensions might not be the same and if the head is integrated into the setting you might need a new setting if you switched stones. But if it's a peg head that's not a worry.

If the return policy is that good-- go for it.
 
Ohhh got it- no it's a plain old 4 prong solitaire :)
 
Vintagegirl11|1336095786|3187085 said:
Ohhh got it- no it's a plain old 4 prong solitaire :)
Click to expand...
Okay then. No worries! :wavey:
 
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