Please explain... in Laymans Terms...

[lottapalooza]

Can somone please help me get my head around the different techniques for 'making' jewellery... in layman's terms? I have searched and searched, and I keep coming across all these threads with jewellery terms I don't know, massive paragraphs that make my eyes hurt and so many different names for what seem to be the same thing, and I am now just totally confused.

Some phrases I have come across:

Handmade
CAD
Cast
Machine made
Assembling different compo
Wax molds
Cam casting

????

my head is spinning... in my head I think handmade is where the piece is made without computers and moulds... and cast rings are made my a mould.. is that right? What is CAD? I know it produces a cool pic so you can see what the piece will look like, but how does it work? In my head I imagine this ultra modern machine that like, laser cuts the piece from the picture the computer creates.. I just have no idea!

Please help me. The jeweller I want to use advertises on their website that their jeweller is handmade. When I went in for my appt, they showed me how they can generate a pic (CAD??) so we can see how we are going... I emailed and asked them about whether they are handmade or cast and they told me that they use a combination of both traditional techniques (handmade) with much more modern, perfected techniques (the computer or CAD designs)... so.. is it handmade or not?

Just so confused...

 

[stone-cold11]

CAD = computer aided design.

Basically use a computer program to design the ring. Using a rapid prototyping machine to make a wax model from the CAD design and then from the wax model make a mold to cast the ring.

All rings are hand finished anyway.

 

[Victor Canera]

Can somone please help me get my head around the different techniques for 'making' jewellery... in layman's terms? I have searched and searched, and I keep coming across all these threads with jewellery terms I don't know, massive paragraphs that make my eyes hurt and so many different names for what seem to be the same thing, and I am now just totally confused.

Some phrases I have come across:

Handmade
CAD
Cast
Machine made
Assembling different compo
Wax molds
Cam casting

????

my head is spinning... in my head I think handmade is where the piece is made without computers and moulds... and cast rings are made my a mould.. is that right? What is CAD? I know it produces a cool pic so you can see what the piece will look like, but how does it work? In my head I imagine this ultra modern machine that like, laser cuts the piece from the picture the computer creates.. I just have no idea!

Please help me. The jeweller I want to use advertises on their website that their jeweller is handmade. When I went in for my appt, they showed me how they can generate a pic (CAD??) so we can see how we are going... I emailed and asked them about whether they are handmade or cast and they told me that they use a combination of both traditional techniques (handmade) with much more modern, perfected techniques (the computer or CAD designs)... so.. is it handmade or not?

Just so confused...

CAD\CAM is the process of fashioning a "wax" by a computer. A robot basically takes the design from the computer and builds the deisng. This is literally a piece of wax that will look just like your final ring. CAD\CAM isn't the only way to create waxes, people still carve waxes by hand too.
Casting is when that wax is placed in a container, a liquid substance is poured on top (called investment) which hardens around the wax thereby creating an outline of the wax and then injecting molten metal into the wax to give you the final product. If your vendor is telling you its hand made when they're creating it with a CAD\CAM design then it's not hand made in the pure sense of the word. It's hand made in that they have to clean the cast piece, maybe attach small parts of it to complete the design.

Pure hand made doesn't involve casting, it's the fashioning of a piece of jewelry directly from the metal. No wax, no computers, no casting.

 

[LGK]

Can somone please help me get my head around the different techniques for 'making' jewellery... in layman's terms? I have searched and searched, and I keep coming across all these threads with jewellery terms I don't know, massive paragraphs that make my eyes hurt and so many different names for what seem to be the same thing, and I am now just totally confused.

Some phrases I have come across:

Handmade
CAD
Cast
Machine made
Assembling different compo
Wax molds
Cam casting

????

my head is spinning... in my head I think handmade is where the piece is made without computers and moulds... and cast rings are made my a mould.. is that right? What is CAD? I know it produces a cool pic so you can see what the piece will look like, but how does it work? In my head I imagine this ultra modern machine that like, laser cuts the piece from the picture the computer creates.. I just have no idea!

Please help me. The jeweller I want to use advertises on their website that their jeweller is handmade. When I went in for my appt, they showed me how they can generate a pic (CAD??) so we can see how we are going... I emailed and asked them about whether they are handmade or cast and they told me that they use a combination of both traditional techniques (handmade) with much more modern, perfected techniques (the computer or CAD designs)... so.. is it handmade or not?

Just so confused...

The poster just before me, Victor Canera, is one of the very, very few that actually does entirely handmade, hand forged platinum settings. This is a link to a thread that shows his process step by step: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ng-my-victor-canera-ring-from-scratch.155293/ I actually own a ring by him and handmade is definitely top, top quality. Basically when a ring is hand forged and fabricated it makes for a more delicate piece, with better finishing on interior surfaces and such, and no possible porosity like you can get in a cast piece.

It's not just you- it *is* confusing. And what's more, frankly I think a lot of jewelers use "handmade" very misleadingly. For example, your jeweler calling a CAD & cast piece handmade is definitely not what I would call handmade. There are jewelers that use a random mix of cast and hand forged, and call the finished products "handmade". (For example, it sounds like Leon Mege does this.) Personally I would consider a cast piece cast, or a mix of techniques- I would call a hand forged, with no casting at all, piece like Victor Canera makes truly handmade.

To add to your confusion there is also die striking. That is basically another non-heat process where a piece of metal is squashed really hard in a die (a positive piece and a negative piece- not really a mold since this is done completely cold). This creates a really high quality piece too- very lightweight but strong, with amazing detail. See Van Craeynest's website for a good explaination and a look at the result of a good die struck process.

A ring that is assembled from stock component pieces is a bit different. That's where a jeweler you go to orders the pieces of your ring- like the shank and the head- from a huge manufacturer like Stuller or Adwar and solders them together, and sets any melee usually. (Presumably Stuller casts pieces with molds.) And again, you see jewelers sometimes calling this process "handmade" although I wouldn't call it that by any means.

And yes, CAD & cast is a piece designed on a computer (Computer Aided Design) and then the computer manufactures the wax mold. Greenlake Jewelery has their robot arm thingy that makes the waxes in a big display case up front so you can watch the thing carve out the wax. It's pretty interesting actually. Bit messy. The term cast and wax mold are the same thing- the wax piece is surrounded with plaster, melted out, then you make the mold some how from that. Erm. I think that's how it goes anyway! (I actually haven't worked much wtih CAD & cast jewelers I must admit.) And the wax can be made by CAD with the computer carving the wax, or a skilled artisan can carve the wax by hand. (So, CAD is always cast but casting isn't always CAD. Confused yet?) And, once again, some jewelers call any of those processes handmade, though I feel that is misusing the term.


A good hand forged, handmade piece is not cheap but the quality is amazing- at least Victor's work is anyway. CAD & cast/wax mold is less expensive, the most common practice by far, and the quality varies a LOT. As does the price. A good CAD & cast designer can create some gorgeous pieces too- see Whiteflash, Jewels by Erica Grace, & Brian Gavin for examples of premium quality casting work. Also they aren't cheap, but less expensive than a handmade piece. With custom jewelry work you really get what you pay for quite often- like tattoo artists, shopping for the cheapest isnt' the way to go

 

[yssie]

LGK I just learnt a ton from your post

 

[Jim Summa]

Hi Lottapalooza-

Excellent answers here, I thought a photograph and description of the process might also help…
Pictured is a ring my father bought my mom long ago. I went with him, across town (because he researched his jeweler) to look at it because the jeweler called and thought, although it was not new, my mom would like it.
Every so often I like to take a look at this because it represents to me the peak of craftsmanship in production jewelry (not made for a specific individual, but for a jewelers stock) in the US.

The stone is set in 4 prong handmade, hand forged oval setting (hand forged is the key word). The gold is hammered, or rolled, or drawn. It is worked. This makes it consistent and dense. If there is a problem with the metals ability to be worked you will catch it here. It should be stronger and you can polish/finish/detail it at this stage BEFORE you assemble it. You can see the slight taper in the prong from the stone’s edge as it descends pasts the upper bezel to the finger.

The part of the ring which holds and centers this “basket” is called the ring’s shank. On this ring, the shop that made the ring decided the way to make it is by casting it in gold after a jeweler carved it in wax ( the wax used is HARD and BRITTLE, so it lends itself to a file). I can see the ring is cast because if you look carefully where the shank splits the finish is slightly rough, where the jeweler had trouble fitting the tools for finishing. There is also a tiny patch on the surface of the inside part on the shank where the metal cooled just a fraction too soon when it was poured into the mold. This is called porosity…and can ruin a piece. Lastly, it is cast, because it would make sense to cast, because of the shanks flowing shape.

These 2 pieces, plus the crescent shaped white plates on top the shank (set with diamonds) are soldered together, or Hand Assembled.

Now what is made today is still similar. You may use a computer to design the wax. You may use a laser to assemble the parts. The bottom line is still, and always has been, researching the people who will guide you through the process. In doing so, hopefully it will bring the good memories like I have had with this ring.

 

[Victor Canera]

At the end of the day what matters is what's important to you. Again, this isn't a black and white issue. Simple designs can be cast and have nice results. Wax has also simplified the jewelry creation process thereby decreasing costs which is a good thing. Here's an image for example of a "cast free" ring we completed with a hand forged and rolled shank (you can see the tube it was cut from next to it) with a 3 stone basket (made of 12 separate parts) that was also hand forged from plate and wire. One thing you really can't replicate though even with simple designs on casting is the metal strength. Since the metal is run through cylinders and hammered before completion in hand forging, the platinum or gold molecules will be compacted (made more dense) and not as porous as a cast piece of jewelry. That means that thin shanks will be unlikely to deform out of shape and also will have a bit more scratch resistance.

 

[WinkHPD]

Nice to see a new poster to our community who has so much to offer, welcome Victor!

Nice to see Jim Summa starting to post again too!

Lotta, you are getting some great information here from people who are walking the talk.

Wink

 

[Jim Summa]

Thanks Wink,
Victor, could you post a picture of the finished ring?

 

[Victor Canera]

Thanks for the welcome Wink, you're great.

Jim, I don't think I can post the completed ring here. It's a Pricescoper's ring and she hasn't received it yet. It'll be her decision to post it here or not.

 

[lottapalooza]

Thanks for all of the information.. so basically, the ring won't be handmade... I am worried because it is quite a detailed piece - it will have a halo and the shank will be tapered with three rows of diamonds - going from larger to smaller down towards the bottom of the ring... will i still get a great finish? I think someone mentioned that cast rings are better for simple pieces?

 

[Haven]

WOW! This is a great thread, so many really informative posts. It's so nice to have you on PS, Mr. Canera. And LGK--NICE post!

My new ring is completely hand forged, and I have to say that I really loved learning about the process of creating a ring by hand. I wanted to share a picture of my ring in this thread. The basket is platinum, and the shank is 18K rose gold. My jeweler spent a lot of time telling DH how the ring was created, and the most interesting thing I learned is that they used tiny string with polish on it to polish all the bits of the shank where it splits in the crown. I was surprised to learn that the shank is entirely made from one piece of rose gold that was split to make all of the curly cues up at the crown and around the basket. I definitely have a new appreciation for hand forged rings now.

Here's a link to my SMTR thread about this ring, in case you want to see more:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...y-2-30-ct-omb-antique-cushion-upgrade.158760/

Thanks for all of the information.. so basically, the ring won't be handmade... I am worried because it is quite a detailed piece - it will have a halo and the shank will be tapered with three rows of diamonds - going from larger to smaller down towards the bottom of the ring... will i still get a great finish? I think someone mentioned that cast rings are better for simple pieces?

I'm not a professional, but I think some of your concerns can be answered if you look at other pieces the jeweler has made. Do they have a great finish? Are they beautiful? We see A LOT of gorgeous rings here on PS that are cast rings.

 

[NE Jewels]

WOW! This is a great thread, so many really informative posts. It's so nice to have you on PS, Mr. Canera. And LGK--NICE post!

My new ring is completely hand forged, and I have to say that I really loved learning about the process of creating a ring by hand. I wanted to share a picture of my ring in this thread. The basket is platinum, and the shank is 18K rose gold. My jeweler spent a lot of time telling DH how the ring was created, and the most interesting thing I learned is that they used tiny string with polish on it to polish all the bits of the shank where it splits in the crown. I was surprised to learn that the shank is entirely made from one piece of rose gold that was split to make all of the curly cues up at the crown and around the basket. I definitely have a new appreciation for hand forged rings now.

Here's a link to my SMTR thread about this ring, in case you want to see more:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...y-2-30-ct-omb-antique-cushion-upgrade.158760/

Hi Haven, your ring is absolutely gorgeous, I went over your thread and saw that you designed it. Maybe you should look into that further...

For the purposed of education and accuracy though your ring is cast.
Let's go with what they told you, that they split the shank to create those curly bits. That's not how it would have been built by hand, but saying that they did do that, the back sides of the curls are perfectly round. You can't saw off another perfectly round piece of wire from the main shank wire. If they were sawed off from the main wire, you would of had a flat side on the inside and circular side on the outside. Those embellishments would have needed to be placed in separately. I don't see any joints there where they would have needed to be soldered on. The shank, from the pictures on your thread, in some areas doesn't seem to be perfectly round, which you can tell from the reflections. That's from cleaning casting with a file. I know all this because I have bench experience even though I'm not currently working on the bench, I was apprentice to a jeweler who did strictly hand made work, although that was decades ago. Again, not putting down your beautiful ring, just adding some accuracy.

 

[Haven]

WOW! This is a great thread, so many really informative posts. It's so nice to have you on PS, Mr. Canera. And LGK--NICE post!

My new ring is completely hand forged, and I have to say that I really loved learning about the process of creating a ring by hand. I wanted to share a picture of my ring in this thread. The basket is platinum, and the shank is 18K rose gold. My jeweler spent a lot of time telling DH how the ring was created, and the most interesting thing I learned is that they used tiny string with polish on it to polish all the bits of the shank where it splits in the crown. I was surprised to learn that the shank is entirely made from one piece of rose gold that was split to make all of the curly cues up at the crown and around the basket. I definitely have a new appreciation for hand forged rings now.

Here's a link to my SMTR thread about this ring, in case you want to see more:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...y-2-30-ct-omb-antique-cushion-upgrade.158760/

Hi Haven, your ring is absolutely gorgeous, I went over your thread and saw that you designed it. Maybe you should look into that further...

For the purposed of education and accuracy though your ring is cast.
Let's go with what they told you, that they split the shank to create those curly bits. That's not how it would have been built by hand, but saying that they did do that, the back sides of the curls are perfectly round. You can't saw off another perfectly round piece of wire from the main shank wire. If they were sawed off from the main wire, you would of had a flat side on the inside and circular side on the outside. Those embellishments would have needed to be placed in separately. I don't see any joints there where they would have needed to be soldered on. The shank, from the pictures on your thread, in some areas doesn't seem to be perfectly round, which you can tell from the reflections. That's from cleaning casting with a file. I know all this because I have bench experience even though I'm not currently working on the bench, I was apprentice to a jeweler who did strictly hand made work, although that was decades ago. Again, not putting down your beautiful ring, just adding some accuracy.

My ring was not cast. It was hand forged. I have this on verification from my jeweler. You are mistaken.

I'm going to send him your comments to see if he has a response, as I am only a consumer and cannot speak to them. I'm a bit upset that you came in here and basically accused my jeweler of lying in your post. Perhaps a better approach would be to ask some questions before making an accusation. You're new to the forum, so as this is my first experience with you I don't know if this is your habit or not. Let's hope this isn't your habit.

ETA: Lottapalooza--I'm sorry for the threadjack. For the sake of consumer knowledge, I'm going to post whatever response my jeweler gives to the accusations NE Jewels made, and then I'll be out of your hair.

 

[SuzyQZ]

Great thread!
The answers are very informative.

 

[NE Jewels]

Sorry if I've offended. I was just sharing my professional bench experience not trying to accuse anybody. There aren't too many ways of making that ring by hand and I was following your description and the pictures. Either way, as I said, the ring is beautiful.

 

[Haven]

Sorry if I've offended. I was just sharing my professional bench experience not trying to accuse anybody. There aren't too many ways of making that ring by hand and I was following your description and the pictures. Either way, as I said, the ring is beautiful.

I think it is a very serious thing to accuse a jeweler of misrepresenting his work here on PS, especially when a poster has shared the name of the jeweler--PS vendor or not. On the flip side, I think it's important to question something if you believe it may be spreading misinformation, as this site is for consumers and we want to have good information out there. HOWEVER, you didn't question, you accused, and I think it was wholly uncalled for. My jeweler's reputation is on the line, here, and to make such an accusation without first asking some questions is really out of line on your end. This isn't about offending me, it's about being unprofessional. As a trade person, your posts carry some weight around here, and I hope you realize that before you make any further accusations that other trades people are lying about their work.

I just spoke with my jeweler and shared your accusations with him. He confirmed that the ring is hand forged, and he said that he understands how someone wouldn't be able to understand how a ring like this can be created by hand, as it requires quite a bit of skill and experience. He also noted that I would have known if it was cast, as he would have shared CADs with me so I could double-check the design (of course) AND, the ring wouldn't be as delicate as it is if it had been cast. I imagine your inability to believe that my ring was hand forged is a reflection of what *you* have seen hand forged, and what you can create, yourself. Please remember that there are jewelers out there with different skill levels than your own.

 

[NE Jewels]

Haven, I do have experience with hand made jewelry.
Since you mentioned it though, I'll bite.
How would it be possible to split off 2 round wires (for the shank embellishments) from the main shank wire? The main shank would have been one round piece, if you sawed\split off anything from a piece of wire, it won't be round anymore and neither will the split or sawed pieces.

 

[Haven]

You are missing my point. I'm not saying that you don't have experience. I'm not saying that I *know* how those splits of the ring were made, which is what your latest post is asking me to share.

What I'm saying is this:

It was unprofessional to come on to PS and accuse another jeweler of misrepresenting his work as hand forged when *you* believe it must be cast. I would have much more respect for a trade person who came on here and said "Wow, Haven, you say that ring is hand forged and I'm surprised that your jeweler was able to split the shank and round out the inner pieces of the split. Could you get some more information about that for me? Would he be willing to share how he did that?" You didn't do that. Instead, you chose to make a declarative statement about something, and your statement is incorrect. This ring was hand forged.

I'm sorry I can't tell you how the splits of the shank are not hard edges, but I imagine there is someone out there who can. I'm not a jeweler, so I can't do that. Please feel free to ask me any questions about reading and literacy, as that is my specialty, and I'd be more than happy to help you out there.

 

[NE Jewels]

Since the vendor's name wasn't mentioned I made my comment. Anyway, I wish you all the happiness with your ring. Apologies to the original poster of this thread.

 

[Haven]

Since the vendor's name wasn't mentioned I made my comment. Anyway, I wish you all the happiness with your ring. Apologies to the original poster of this thread.

Thank you for your kind wish.
My point is that my jeweler's name IS mentioned--it's right there in my thread, which you read. THAT is the point. I'm frustrated by your refusal to acknowledge my repeated statements about why your post was unprofessional. I think it's vital that the trade people who post on PS understand that their words carry more weight than the consumers, and therefore they must uphold some professional standards if we are to keep the integrity of PS as high as it should be.

 

[lottapalooza]

Rightyo... so what I am getting re: the above is that if you want handmade, it is better to go with it??

Anyone else?

 

[Jim Summa]

 
 
I've been staring at this thread for a couple of days and am hesitant to post, but if I don't I'll feel guilty for not saying something.
 
Haven, I'm sure you're right about your ring. I can add, though, if somebody had posted that picture and asked how it was made I'd have said the shank was cast also. That is no disrespect and doesn't devalue anything about it.
 
Here is the thing. If a client came in wanting such a ring I'd show them the ring I spoke of in my earlier post (my mom’s Amethyst ring).  If they asked if I could hand-make the shank also, to match the head, (which I think is what the OP is fishing for here) I would tell them sure, it can be hand-fabricated if they felt strongly about it.
Economically, for the shank, it would take me some extra time and expense for negligible improvement in quality or accuracy. I'd give the client the low-down on both routes before proceeding.
 
I remember when I first started in this business everything cast was awful.  That’s just not true anymore.  There have been advances in casting in the past 40 years and I've come around on the subject. That doesn't mean the majority of jewelry that's cast is up to the specs I'd insist on, it is not (lots of this stuff is sub-contracted to the cheap labor regions of the world for mass-casting) and it is this junk that predominates the U.S. market. But if you pick someone like Whiteflash or BDG or High Performance Diamonds you will get some tremendous casting. It can be a heck of a good job and sometimes more practical.
 
Here is a comparison. Jewelers used to fax invoices to each other and they looked terrible. Now we email PDFs which print at the same quality as the original. That's what casting advances remind me-of…I can snail-mail an original if someone wants it, but it's more practical with today's technology to email a PDF. In the end there is no quality difference but I'm happy to do it either way.
 
When I looked at my Mom’s ring as a little kid I was amazed (how could anyone make this?)….later on, as a teenager, and understood they had cast the shank, I was disappointed believing they had taken a “shortcut”. Slowly, sometimes grudgingly, I came to a different conclusion. I think they made this particular ring without a shortcut in mind.
 
What I am saying is that I think NE Jewels posted what a lot of metal-smiths would have presumed at a glance. You also know that in the real world a lot of sellers claim their stuff is handmade when it's not …(we know this is not such a case with your ring). For what it's worth, Haven, I think you gave a great lesson in how to re-phrase a declarative statement in the form of a PS-friendly question. I learned something there. It has taken me a while to learn how to post here and I am still learning.
 
I'm just adding my two cents because I think this has been a great thread.

 

[lottapalooza]

Thanks Jim, I found everything that you had to say informative, and also interesting to read.

This is all so hard for me to get my head around, I was looking at a jewellers photos the other day, and he had an album of a handmade ring, from start to finish. It was awesome and I really could get my head around the steps that was taken to make it. The thing is, I cant visualise the same thing with cast pieces.. i think if i could see something like this, and see the end product is just as beautiful, it might help me to come around to having a cast piece.

Thanks

 

[lottapalooza]

check this out!!

Apologies in advance if i am not allowed to link to this... it doesn't appear to be advertising of selling anything, it just information.... totally helped me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHLX6m2HsQs

 

[Haven]

check this out!!

Apologies in advance if i am not allowed to link to this... it doesn't appear to be advertising of selling anything, it just information.... totally helped me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHLX6m2HsQs

That's a great video. I've seen videos of cast rings that come off of cones with several other cast rings, all made at the same time, but never one of an individual cast ring being made. It looks like it's from the tv show How It's Made, no?

 

[Haven]

Mr. Summa,

Thank you for your response. I agree with lottapalooza--it was very informative and interesting to read.

My concern with NE Jewels's post was not that it devalued the ring, as I know that the ring was completely hand forged, and the accusations of a supposed trade person posting anonymously on a forum doesn't change that for me. My concern is that he sullied my jeweler's reputation with false accusations. He doesn't seem to understand the serious nature of this issue, but unlike NE Jewels, my jeweler's name and company name are listed here on Pricescope. To accuse him of misrepresenting his work is a potentially damaging accusation, as it is coming from a trade person.

As for my ring, I did not ask for it to be hand forged. I assumed he was going to create a CAD and cast it, and when I asked when the CAD would be ready he told me he was going to hand forge the ring. I've been working with him for years, and trust his instinct and eye, so I didn't question that. I'm glad I didn't--the ring is obviously beautiful, and so well crafted as to elicit doubt of its origin from others in the field who feel they could not create such a stunning piece, themselves.

As for posting what many metal-smiths would have assumed at a glance--this is the heart of the issue. To assume something is misrepresented is a different thing than to make a declarative proclamation that it is misrepresented. Therein lies the line, and in my opinion, NE Jewels crossed it here.

My basic and only concern is about my jeweler's reputation being sullied by NE Jewels's false accusations. *I* am the one who chose to post his exquisite work here on PS, and so any marring of his reputation that is not moderated by PS is ultimately MY responsibility. I find it endlessly amusing that when a ring shows up of high quality craftsmanship that it is instantly accused of being cast rather than hand forged--it seems to be a classic case of "I couldn't do that, so how can anyone else?" The value of PS is that we have trade members such as yourself, Mr. Summa, who can successfully provide insight into the jewelry trade to which we, as consumers, wouldn't otherwise have access.

Lottapalooza--I suppose you got more than you bargained for with this thread, huh?

 

[Victor Canera]

Hi Jim, wonderful contribution on your part to the discussion here.

Casting is actually a very old technique, dating back 6000 years, some of those beautiful Greek statues were created that way millenia ago. I don't think there have been leaps and bounds in actual casting to improve the product it yields. There has been progress first with using waxes to create the designs and now with CAD\CAM that creates a little bit more of a symmetric design although whether it creates an inherently better quality piece of jewelry from hand carving a wax is debatable.

There are inherent advantages in hand forging jewelry or "casting free" as I like to call them, that even in a very simple and basic design that have to do with metal density. Hand forged metal is stronger and denser than cast metal since the parts are run through rolling mills, strained and hammered. You unfortunately can't do that with cast metal. Hand forged metal is completely free of porosity (as long as the ingots are melted correctly). Porosity are actual air bubbles that can be visible as pinpoints and sometimes develop as really large hollow air bubbles inside the metal from the process of casting (think swiss cheese). With consumers wanting thinner shanks and pave set on them a hand forged shank could make the difference between that shank deforming out of shape in the future or not.

I really like your fax analogy. I think the main degradation comes from the actual casting process though and the cleaning that has to be done afterwards on the cast piece. Even on a very basic design like a plain band, you're going to have inherent advantages with hand forging that casting can't replicate.

Good luck

 

[Haven]

Great information, Mr. Canera. Thank you so much for sharing.

 

[Gypsy]

I'm just posting to re-iterate Haven's main point.

This is a very public wesite with high traffic and many lurkers.

Posting with a "Trade Member" designation gives posts a lot of weight. So, for Haven and me for example, does posting with a high post count. There is therefore an inherent responsibility when you are posting.

As an annoymous trade member (I don't like this by the way, if you are a trade member I think you should be required to put up your business name so people can research your credentials and your reputation) you can inflict damage on the reputations of just about anyone here, with a few careless words.

If you were to re-write your post, NE, and say to Haven instead: " Your ring is lovely. And I am surprised that your shank on your ring is handforged, it would take a very high level of skill and a lot of time to get results like yours with handforging, what does your jeweler say about how long that took? And was there a reason he didn't opt to go for casting instead which would have given the same look, at perhaps a reduced cost?"

Your tone would have been much more respectful to both Haven (and respecting forum members is a fundemental principle of PS) and to her jeweler and would have acheived your purpose.

I do think you owed both Haven and her jeweler and apology for your carelessness, because you did make an accussation. And frankly if you look up some of our PSers hand forged rings by some other designers, such as Jim Meyer, you will see the very high level of skill, and very symetrical results that are possible with handforging.

As you can see demonstrated in both Jim and Victor's posts-- HOW you say something is as important as what you say. Please remember that in the future.