Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapphires

[goldbandgirl]

It's hard to find quality Montana sapphires in larger sizes (over 1.5-2 carats)

These are the websites I've found so far that sell a good amount of Montana sapphires:

-Wild Fish Gems
-Gemfix
-The Natural Sapphire Company


Can you suggest any other places that would be worth checking out?

 

[Niel]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

I think Peter Torraca has some rough.

 

[ElleK]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Knowing your budget and the color you are looking for would help out tremendously.

 

[goldbandgirl]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

budget is probably under $20,000.

most montana sapphires come in the colors i like....green/blue and light blue/green. i'm not a fan of the popular true blue sapphires or ones that are fairly dark. a lot of the stones in the montana section on gemfix show colors i like. http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_montana.html

oh and if it matters, oval's the shape i love.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Blazengems. Here are his ovals. I don't see many good candidates for oval:
http://blazengems.com/retail/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=83_53_55&page=1&sort=3d

Here are some sizeable rounds, including some nice stones.
http://blazengems.com/retail/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=83_53_54&page=1&sort=3d

Please consider reading LDs thread. It explains windows, etc:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

 

[chrono]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Your mileage will vary. You probably have to call or email the vendor for updated inventory.

Jerry Newman of Gem Art - www.gemartservices.com
Andrew Gulij of Gemfix - www.gemfix.com
Gem Line - www.litnon.com
Dana of Master Cut Gems - www.mastercutgems.com

 

[SparkliesLuver]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

It's not a route for the faint of heart, but you could buy a piece of rough from Blaze and have someone like Jerry or Jeff cut it. Blaze doesn't have all of his inventory online, and I know he can ask his neighbor too. I'd email him ([email protected]), let him know the color, size and cut you're after (maybe just say you have a very healthy budget) and see what he says. That part couldn't hurt. Please, please ask him and us lots of questions though, if you go this route!

 

[deskjockey]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

http://www.earthstreasury.com/

https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/MountainMommaGems?ref=ss_profile

https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/AlternativesLapidary (at one point he did have a lot of rough, from a trip up to visit Blaze's operation. Not sure if he has any that's the size/color you want but worth asking)

 

[MollyMalone]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

It's not a route for the faint of heart, but you could buy a piece of rough from Blaze and have someone like Jerry or Jeff cut it. Blaze doesn't have all of his inventory online, and I know he can ask his neighbor too. I'd email him ([email protected]), let him know the color, size and cut you're after (maybe just say you have a very healthy budget) and see what he says. That part couldn't hurt. Please, please ask him and us lots of questions though, if you go this route!

Let me propose a variation of this: ask Jerry Newman, of GemArt (on Chrono's list) to find rough, if he doesn't have any at hand right now to cut that's suitable for you. He's worked with Blaze & is better able to asses rough than you are, so let him take the lead for sourcing the rough, be it from Blaze or somewhere else.

 

[Arcadian]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

It's not a route for the faint of heart, but you could buy a piece of rough from Blaze and have someone like Jerry or Jeff cut it. Blaze doesn't have all of his inventory online, and I know he can ask his neighbor too. I'd email him ([email protected]), let him know the color, size and cut you're after (maybe just say you have a very healthy budget) and see what he says. That part couldn't hurt. Please, please ask him and us lots of questions though, if you go this route!

Let me propose a variation of this: ask Jerry Newman, of GemArt (on Chrono's list) to find rough, if he doesn't have any at hand right now to cut that's suitable for you. He's worked with Blaze & is better able to asses rough than you are, so let him take the lead for sourcing the rough, be it from Blaze or somewhere else.

I can agree with this. Jerry does some amazing cutting, so see what he can source for you.

Heating, is fine and as long as its disclosed is a standard and accepted treatment. I don't think it makes the stones worse unless the stones are bad to begin with. Heating can make the stones a bit cleaner, brighten the color (especially if stone is dark or has a grey mask), and clear out the silk. That can make a ho hum stone one thats worth buying, though somewhat cheaper than the unheated counterpart.

But, thats not for everyone though and I'm the first to admit its nice to have unheated (of course!). You have a very nice budget so you can get a very nice sized unheated stone especially going the custom cut route.

Go big or go home Hey if you're gonna do it and you like big, I say go for it!

For your setting, there's plenty of places all over the country who do great custom work. I would pop into the show me the bling forum for ideas.

 

[goldbandgirl]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Heating, is fine and as long as its disclosed is a standard and accepted treatment. I don't think it makes the stones worse unless the stones are bad to begin with. Heating can make the stones a bit cleaner, brighten the color (especially if stone is dark or has a grey mask), and clear out the silk. That can make a ho hum stone one thats worth buying, though somewhat cheaper than the unheated counterpart..

Why does heating get such a bad rep then?

 

[deskjockey]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Heating, is fine and as long as its disclosed is a standard and accepted treatment. I don't think it makes the stones worse unless the stones are bad to begin with. Heating can make the stones a bit cleaner, brighten the color (especially if stone is dark or has a grey mask), and clear out the silk. That can make a ho hum stone one thats worth buying, though somewhat cheaper than the unheated counterpart..

Why does heating get such a bad rep then?

I don't think it has a bad rep, really. The problem comes in when vendors don't disclose the treatment, and price the stone higher. Heating can make an OK stone into a WOW! stone, but if a vendor charges a WOW! price without telling you it's actually treated, that's unethical and also a waste of your money.

Basically, heating itself is neither bad nor good on its own, it's only bad if you as a buyer decide you want a 100% natural and untreated stone. If you do, then heating is "bad." But for many people, it's not a big deal and helps make really beautiful things a bit more affordable.

That's true of all treatments really (with the exception, IMO, of nonpermanent treatments or treatments that compromise the stone's durability), as long as they are disclosed and the stone is priced accordingly, there's nothing inherently "wrong" with it (and giving valueless stones some value, while giving folks with low budgets the chance to own really beautiful things is good in my book!). It's just about what you personally value and want.

 

[chrono]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Some vendors that specialize in unheated stones need something to draw people to pay more for unheated sapphires and use it as a sort of scare tactic. My preference is also unheated but I don't mind a sapphire that is heat only if there are other constraints to consider (time, budget, size, etc).

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/are-heated-sapphires-so-bad.52888/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/are-heated-sapphires-so-bad.52888/[/URL]

 

[Arcadian]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Heating, is fine and as long as its disclosed is a standard and accepted treatment. I don't think it makes the stones worse unless the stones are bad to begin with. Heating can make the stones a bit cleaner, brighten the color (especially if stone is dark or has a grey mask), and clear out the silk. That can make a ho hum stone one thats worth buying, though somewhat cheaper than the unheated counterpart..

Why does heating get such a bad rep then?

It depends on who you talk / listen to. Seriously, diamonds from Africa also get a bad rap but the general population continues to buy them!

Heating isn't really a bad rap but not disclosing that fact is. There are many stones such as sapphires, rubies, tanzanites, paraiba tourmalines, blue zircons, etc, that heating is accepted in the trade as long as its disclosed before the end of the sale.

I have a couple of heat only sapphires, that made it possible to buy at the time because of that heat treatment. They're perfectly lovely stones and pretty and durable, but, they're still heat treated. The difference is they were sold as heat treated, and priced as heat treated, so I knew what I was getting. Full disclosure is key.

Heating when its combined with other treatments, like BE or glass filling are bad in my view, even if they are disclosed. Its my line in the sand but it may be perfectly fine for someone else. There's a plethora of treatments out there still being discovered, which we don't always know about and, which at this time, aren't even detectible.

Sometimes even if the stone is BE or glass filled, as long as its disclosed by the person selling the stone and not sold as an untreated gem, if someone likes it and can agree with the type of treatment thats on the stone, they'll buy it. BTW, thats not something that is considered a good thing on PS, but I'm putting it out there because you can find those types of stones for sale.


I also have untreated sapphires, sold as untreated, which have reports from very respected laboratories. Quite honestly, unless I looked at them under a microscope, I wouldn't know the difference to my heated ones. But the vendor I purchased from disclosed non treated status, which allowed me to have a choice to buy or not.

When you buy a stone that is being sold as UNTREATED, and you pay that untreated price, only to find out later down the line it was in fact TREATED, then its a totally different story. Undisclosed treatments is very very bad.

If you're the type thats anti treatment, then it will bother you to buy a stone that is treated no matter what it is, even if its disclosed, from heat on sapphires, to cedar oil on emeralds. If thats the case, buy untreated, verify that the stone IS in fact untreated and for some high status gems, expect to pay a commiserative price that matches that status.

 

[T L]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Heating, is fine and as long as its disclosed is a standard and accepted treatment. I don't think it makes the stones worse unless the stones are bad to begin with. Heating can make the stones a bit cleaner, brighten the color (especially if stone is dark or has a grey mask), and clear out the silk. That can make a ho hum stone one thats worth buying, though somewhat cheaper than the unheated counterpart..

Why does heating get such a bad rep then?

I personally don't think heating gets a bad reputation IF and only IF it's heated (like Arcadian said, no other treatments). The problem with heated sapphires is that you have to test them not only for heat, but for other elements, like beryllium, to make sure they're not diffused.

All diffused sapphires are heated, whereas not all heated sapphires are diffused, and sometimes testing for diffusion can be expensive and tricky, as traditional gemological testing doesn't always catch it. The nice thing about an unheated sapphire is that it's not diffused, as high temperatures are required for that type of invasive treatment.

Only the top labs can really fully test for diffusion in all cases as well. Do not trust heated corundum to small labs.

Also, don't forget that corundum can also be irradiated, coated and clarity enhanced in a variety of ways. Due to it's tolerance for high heat, it is one of the most commonly treated gems, and don't forget about the abundance of synthetics out there as well. It's really a nightmare of a gem (rubies and sapphires both) if you don't buy from a really trusted vendor.

 

[goldbandgirl]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

I personally don't think heating gets a bad reputation IF and only IF it's heated (like Arcadian said, no other treatments). The problem with heated sapphires is that you have to test them not only for heat, but for other elements, like beryllium, to make sure they're not diffused.

Perhaps the "bad rep" idea just came from my own mind...i think this may happen for many of us who are uneducated about gems...you hear that the stone has been treated and you jump to fake/unnatural.


do you know if GemFix is a good place to look for heated, but not diffused, sapphires?

 

[goldbandgirl]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

If you're the type thats anti treatment, then it will bother you to buy a stone that is treated no matter what it is, even if its disclosed, from heat on sapphires, to cedar oil on emeralds. If thats the case, buy untreated, verify that the stone IS in fact untreated and for some high status gems, expect to pay a commiserative price that matches that status.

I won't say I'm against treatment...there is something nice about having a completely natural/pure stone- untouched since it came out of the earth. i was under the impression that treatments damaged/weakened the stone.

 

[Arcadian]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Gemfix is a fantastic place for stones. There's a long list of vendors for reference on this board and gemfix is certainly on there. Its a big list, so worth checking out.

Treatments are ok when disclosed and are accepted in the trade, but in saying that, there are some treatments that are worse than others. Its about knowing what they are and when its ok to bend a bit.

But yes, I also love having my non-treated stones very much

 

[goldbandgirl]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

yeah i checked out the list as well. gemfix seems to have on of the largest selection in sizes/colors i like.

 

[T L]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Gemfix has a very good reputation here.

There's also nothing wrong with diffused sapphires, as long as YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING and PAYING A FAIR PRICE. Diffused sapphires are worth far less than regular heated sapphires, and regular heated sapphires are worth less than untreated sapphires, if all else is equal. There's a market for everything, but people that are gemstone aficionados tend to appreciate untreated gems. I have a couple of heat only (AGL) treated sapphires myself, and I enjoy and appreciate them. I wouldn't mind diffused sapphires as accent stones either, but not as a main stone, but some people would frown on that. Everyone has their tolerance level. Highly treated stones are great for people on a strict budget, but who also want something beautiful. As long as the treatment is stable, and again, you're paying a fair price, and you are aware of the treatment, there's nothing wrong with it.

The types of treatments I stay away from are irradiation, coating, and certain kinds of fillers, because they can be very unstable. The gems can fade, or the treatment can scratch off, or dry up, or crack. Some irradiated gems are stable though, but not all, and in the 1980's and prior, some were actually dangerous to wear!!

 

[NKOTB]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Here is an option: http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/3-dot-76ct-asscher-cut-montana-sapphire-natural-no-treatment

 

[austinj]

Re: Places (brick/mortar or on the web) to buy Montana sapph

Johndyergems usually has a few in stock, although they seem to go really fast! If you like some unusual cutting you could check his site out. I never actually bought one from him but I almost did a few months ago and he was easy to work with. Very nice guy! Prices are higher than gemfix though.