Pink diamonds worth the money???

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/31/2009 10:39:37 PM
Author: Trinity Creation

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 131px">Date: 8/31/2009 11:02:13 AM
Author: kenny
Pink diamonds, or anything else, are worth what someone will pay for them.
Clearly there are enough people who DO pay those prices or else the price would fall.

Some people belive that white diamonds are not worth what is charged too.

That said, it must be difficult to determine what is a ''fair'' or ''good'' price for a particular pink diamond because there are so few of them for sale from so few vendors.
Plus, often instead of listing the price many listings say CALL FOR PRICE.
Price comparisons must be tough in the world of naturally-colored diamonds.

Kenny, it is false to believe the price of diamonds would fall due to people who cannot afford them. DeBeers controlls at least 80% of the diamond industry. The price of gold, platinum, and silver always move according to market unstability but the price of diamonds themselves stay the say. Who do you think keeps the price of diamonds so high??? In our economic crisis where good people have lost their savings and are loosing their homes it is completely INSANE that diamond prices stay so high!!!

De Beers has very little control for the past decade.
They have government partnerships with their largest mining countries and market a bit over 1/3rd of diamonds that they have partial ownership of.
De Beers has some real problems re arranging their $1.5 billion loan facility at present - they sell as fast as they can mine and open mines as and when they are viable.

Russia''s Aalrosa is probably a more dominant and cohesive body today with around 1/4 of all diamonds

 

[Trinity Creation]

Date: 9/2/2009 3:50:52 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI trinity,
How many times can I repeat that we respect GIA''s grades, and live within them. Check our site to see all the U-V, W-X and Y-Z stones honestly represented, and priced well below Fancy Light yellow.
I am not a diamond cutter- but the one I was referring to is as honest as the day is long. Making money honestly is NOT cheating. When he gets a Y-Z grade from GIA, that''s what he sells- honestly- even if it means taking a loss.

NONE OF OUR CLEINTS GETS MISLED ABOUT ANYTHING WE SELL

I''m very sorry if someone somewhere ripped you off- but that is no excuse for false and misleading accusations.

Rockdiamond, if "you" (as in general) really respected the grading of GIA why then send it back several times to get a better grade?

 

[Trinity Creation]

Date: 9/2/2009 5:08:34 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
AS usual, the appearance of Black Jade signals a return to decency- I can''t thank you- and glitterata- enough.
It seems to go well beyond diamonds here for some reason. I really start to loose faith in people after reading some of this stuff.
I know, I''m foolish- this is an internet forum- why expect anyone to be decent. But I do.


The logic being used to trash dealers here is insidious.
Is anyone making a profit a cheat?
We were not talking about anyone, we were talking about those who keep resending back the same stones to the GIA in hopes that they will grade hit higher than it is worth.

Isn''t this a capitalist system?
Capitalist system it is, but people are still taken to court and put in jail for ripping people off because IT IS WRONG.

If a person is smart enough, and works hard enough, they may become very successful- without ripping anyone off. What''s wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with that at all. Again we were not talking about these people.

 

[Harriet]

Trinity, I beg your pardon, but you appear to be pursuing a point that''s without the scope of your original question. Would you mind clarifying your query?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 9/1/2009 7:14:03 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 9/1/2009 6:56:11 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 9/1/2009 6:43:25 PM

Author: Rockdiamond

HI trinity,

I ask with all due respect what I wrote that gave you such an idea?



Yes..., I wonder what gave trinity that idea too?


If the cutter could do as Diagem is suggesting- that being keep resubimitting a stone to get a higher grade, it's still not 'cheating'- it's trying to use the system to make a higher price.

If cutters can't make money, they can't continue to cut diamonds- that's just business, not cheating.

If a cutter is smart enough to produce a 4carat stone worth more than a 4.5 he started with, that sounds also like smart business. Personally, I loved the step cut and was very sad that he chose to cut it to a radiant.I get attached to the goods.

That's one of the reasons ( among a gazillion others) I could never be a diamond cutter.


Diagem, specifically how would this work?

Say a dealer or cutter has a Y-Z which they feel is as dark as a Fancy Light Yellow.

Do they submit it monthly? Hold it a few years and try again, while refusing to accept a fair price, based on the current GIA report?

The financial instrument which would pay a far better return would be for cutters to accept market value on such stones, and use the money over and over again.

RD..., you know well its customary in the industry to simply resubmit close calls for 'new' reports as re-checks became pretty much a useless battle at GIA...


If a 4.50 ct Cape EC is valued at $X total...., what would a 4.00 ct Fancy (light) yellow be valued in comparisons?

Hi Diagem- yes, I do know that many dealers and cutters will throw away a report they disagree with and re-submit.
But after a few times, the costs really add up.
My experience is that GIA is really pretty good at getting it right- give a stone in twice, you're very likely to get the same result. Not that we re-submit. As a rule, we don't However there have been times we've bought stones with old reports- or stones with 'Color Origin' reports when we wanted a new, or full report.In cases like that we usually go for a fresh look, new report.
And GIA has issued the same color grade in just about every instance I remember.

What I see happening far more frequently is dealers either trying to sell without the report, at the price of the darker grade they believe the stone to be.
Or far more common, send it off to some non GIA lab who'll call it Fancy Intense Vivid Yellow.
That, my friends, is cheating. Especially if they don't inform the clients that the report is worthless, which why would they if they were aiming to deceive in the first place.

But back to Diagem's point.
Do you feel dealers hold Y-Z stones for extended periods waiting for GIA to change something?


As far as the relative price:
The stone I was referring to was graded Fancy Light Yellow by GIA and was about 4.50carat.
A fancy Yellow 4.00radiant would be about 30% more, on a per carat basis.
If the 4.50 started at $10k per carat, that's $45k.
If the 4.00 was $13k per carat, that's $52k

HI tinity- the passage above addresses your post.
I would resubmit a stone for a re-check if I felt GIA was really wrong ( more than two grades)- which has happened only once that I can remember. Our company has submitted hundreds of stones. We accept GIA's grade in every instance. The case where I asked for a recheck- they did give the stone a different grade. It went from S-T to U-V. I did not submit it again.
The other times we re-submit have to do with getting a full GIA report, or a stone with a very old report that need a new one.

As rule I respect GIA's grading. To this day I think the stone they called U-V ( after the re-check) was Y-Z. it had great color. But we advertised, priced, and sold it as a U-V, as GIA called it.

ETA- Trinity, I just saw your second post of this page- Look- I'm here to respond, if you have a problem with me or our company.
If you hate people who resubmit diamonds to the GIA, that's your right.
if there was a group of people who were trying to "scam" by using "re-submission techniques"- we'd be at the forefront warning people about it. It does not happen
My experience is that GIA is very accurate, and rarely changes a grade.

What is your problem?

 

[Trinity Creation]

Date: 9/2/2009 10:19:34 PM
Author: Harriet
Trinity, I beg your pardon, but you appear to be pursuing a point that''s without the scope of your original question. Would you mind clarifying your query?

I agree with you Harriet!

I really wanted to know if fancy, or even "light" pink diamonds are really worth the excessive price difference compaired to white diamonds. It seems that the only one thing people agree on is that the diamonds are colored.

I was inquiring about a pink diamond eternity band from "Uneek" priced at $4,000. I asked about quality of the stones the sales person said "it is not uncommon for pink diamond to be heavily included". There was no GIA report with the ring (I though odd for a jewellery designer company). Uneek only stated that the diamonds were "light pink".

 

[Trinity Creation]

Do the pink diamonds that we see typically (not at sotheby''s) possess the same visual elements as a white diamond??

 

[kenny]

Date: 9/3/2009 12:42:03 AM
Author: Trinity Creation



I really wanted to know if fancy, or even 'light' pink diamonds are really worth the excessive price difference compaired to white diamonds.
It seems that the only one thing people agree on is that the diamonds are colored.


I was inquiring about a pink diamond eternity band from 'Uneek' priced at $4,000. I asked about quality of the stones the sales person said 'it is not uncommon for pink diamond to be heavily included'. There was no GIA report with the ring (I though odd for a jewellery designer company). Uneek only stated that the diamonds were 'light pink'.

Everything is worth what someone will pay for it.
People ARE paying huge prices for pink diamonds so . . . I guess they ARE worth it.

Now, are they worth it TO YOU?
Only you can answer that.

It is true that pinks are so rare that people overlook inclusions moreso than in white diamonds.
But if you want to pay much more and were patient I suspect someone could find higher clarity stones eventually.

Nobody has a ring graded by GIA.
GIA does not grade rings.
They grade diamonds, and only loose diamonds at that.

If an eternity ring had 25 diamonds that would be 25 individual GIA reports.
I'd guess each report would cost $100 to $200, adding up to $5000 to the cost of the ring.
That's why rings with lots of small diamonds use diamonds with no lab reports.

 

[Trinity Creation]

Ah, so then when it comes to eternity rings you really cannot be sure of what you are getting?

 

[Trinity Creation]

To me I love the idea of pink diamonds but I wanted to seperate my emotion from my wanting and hear from you guys.

 

[kenny]

Visual elements? Can you be more specific?

Colored diamonds are cut to intensify the color grade - and of course to save precious weight.
This means they are less likely to be cut for optimum light performance that we expect from a well-cut white diamond.

 

[Trinity Creation]

That makes sense.
Who do you consider has the best cut diamonds?

 

[kenny]

Date: 9/3/2009 1:03:05 AM
Author: Trinity Creation
Ah, so then when it comes to eternity rings you really cannot be sure of what you are getting?

People get lab reports to be more certain of what they are getting.

No report means a lower level of certainty so for all the money you are going to pay for an eternity ring of real natural pink diamonds you really want to buy it from a very reputable vendor you trust.

 

[kenny]

Date: 9/3/2009 1:16:32 AM
Author: Trinity Creation
That makes sense.

Who do you consider has the best cut diamonds?

Pink or white?

 

[Trinity Creation]

Both.

So the I guess high end auction houses have their own ways of determining what the diamond ring is worth?

 

[kenny]

I can''t answer for colored diamonds, you may want to do a search here and see what previous buyers have written.

For white diamonds several PS vendors offer excellent cut.
It kind of depends which cut you want.

 

[Trinity Creation]

There are so many specialty cuts. I wish there was a consumer book that reviewed and rated the different cuts including brand names like Lazare Diamonds and such.

 

[Trinity Creation]

I like diamonds with a lot of "flash". I know rounds are best for that, but there are so many names/vendors boasting that their unique cut is the best.

 

[stepcutnut]

Glad to see everyone is getting back on topic

I would love to see a picture of the pink diamond eternity band you are considering, I love colored diamonds-pinks especially! To me the price is only worth it if the stone/stones speak to me-always nice to have something unique too.

Also, you mention you like rounds because of their flash-be aware that by the nature of the cut of a round brilliant diamond, it may show less color than other cuts-great for white diamonds, not so much for colored diamonds.

 

[dkodner]

Hi Trinity-

I''ll try and address a couple of your questions.

1. Are pink diamond as sparkly as white ? In my opinion yes they are, or at least can be. But not the same kind of sparkle. Not all white diamonds are equal in brilliance, and the same holds true for pinks. The fancy color will give the diamond a "different" kind of sparkle to it, as it has color. While a clear diamond is returning the entire spectrum of light through the crystal, a colored diamond will not return the full spectrum, hence you see color. so technically some may not consider it as bright, but again, I think they can be just as sparkly. I know people hate to hear that it is personal preference, but we really do all see things differently, so saying anything else would be misleading. As with any diamond, your eyes have to see the beauty.

2. Are they worth the price ? Another tough and subjective question. They are very rare, and all rare objects tend to get a high price if there is a demand. There is a demand for pink diamonds and a small supply, so they are going to be expensive. Are they worth it ? To me they are, as I see more beauty in a pink diamond than a white, but that is not going to be true for everyone. When I look at a pink diamond, it evokes emotion to me. I see this tiny crystal that is deformed and yet it''s deformity allows it to shine uniquely among it''s white counterparts. I know there is great discussion about how there are millions of diamonds and they are not rare and they are artificially inflated in price. I contend that diamonds are like art. There are millions of paintings, sketches, mixed media, sculptures etc, all considered art. Some are very expensive, some are $5 at walmart. You can buy a true oil painting by an unknown artist at a starving artist sale for under $100.00, you can also pay $5 million for a Van Gogh. Is the Van Gogh 500,000 times better than the no name artist, who knows, we each have to decide that. People who pay millions of dollars for art will tell you that the pieces move them, inspire them, have an emotional impact. As much as some may want them to be, there are no two diamond exactly alike, that is magnified greatly when we talk about something like a pink diamond. I get amazing joy out of owning a pink diamond, so the cost is completely justified to me. Others may see it as an overpriced pink rock, and that is okay too. That is why you keep hearing that it is individual taste that tells you whether it is worth it or not. It may sound like s sales pitch, but there is no better answer. Of course, you could take a strictly economic view, in that something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. In that case, there is strong evidence that they are, since there seems to be a never ending stream of buyers for natural pinks.

3. Price setting. You are correct that the auction prices are very important in setting the pricing of colored diamonds. There is simply not enough public data on what these rare stones actually sell for to allow anyone to put together an accurate pricing guide. Auctions are public record, so we can see what someone is really willing to pay for it. The reality is that most larger colored diamond sales take place outside of the public realm, and that information is very rarely shared. It is not that people are trying to hide this information so nobody can get an idea of proper price. These are usually sales to collectors or individuals who want to keep their business private. We cannot fault people for that, but it does make it difficult for the average consumer to get a handle on how these rare stones are priced, and what a fair value is. Again, it is the same with the Van Gogh, to my knowledge there is no book that tells you what a price should be, only what we know they have sold for in the public realm.
When it comes to smaller pinks, like the ones in your eternity band you saw, the price is a little more consistent, as they are in greater supply, and traded more often. If you call enough jewelers, I think you could get a general price range if you compare like qualities. I should note that it is true that smaller pinks do in general terms tend to have impurities.

4. Can you be sure of what you are getting ? It does not make economic sense to get a certificate for every 10 point diamond in an eternity band, so you do have to rely on the person you are dealing with. If you are dealing with someone who you believe to be reputable, they will stand by their claims of natural and make good if something were to ever come up different. The person who made the eternity ring was also relying on the dealer they bought the diamonds from to know that they are natural. There is a great deal of trust that must be present in jewelry. I find the same in many other things in life. If you do not completely trust the jeweler you are dealing with, you should not buy from them. That''s probably the best advice I can give with that. I would say though, that I believe that 99% of the jewelers out there who are representing the stones as natural are indeed natural ( maybe only 50% if we are tlaking about ebay

)

So that is my 2 cents for the day, I can avoid work no longer

I hope this helps at least a little, and I really hope you end up with a pink diamond band, as I have never known anyone who bought a pink diamond to be unhappy with their purchase.

 

[Trinity Creation]

Date: 9/3/2009 8:04:14 AM
Author: stepcutnut
Glad to see everyone is getting back on topic

I would love to see a picture of the pink diamond eternity band you are considering, I love colored diamonds-pinks especially! To me the price is only worth it if the stone/stones speak to me-always nice to have something unique too.

Also, you mention you like rounds because of their flash-be aware that by the nature of the cut of a round brilliant diamond, it may show less color than other cuts-great for white diamonds, not so much for colored diamonds.

Good point!!!

 

[Trinity Creation]

Thanks dkodner!!

I was also looking at a band from Fireneze jewellers for under $1,000. I don''t think I trust my money with them. Their website looks reputable, but seeing as how the jewellery industry is taking a pounding, (beaudry, penny preville''s licience company, and some other designer going bankrupt) I don''t trust Firenze to actually have enough money to order more rings as so many on their website are "sold out" and will take several weeks to order.

My husband pointed out something very smart. He said a higher class jewellery site would never put "sold out" on their website (ex. Tiffany''s) stating that it would take several weeks to order. He thinks Firenze may not even have enough money right now unless they have enough buyers to order the rings.

 

[LD]

I don''t know if this helps or not. I recently bought a pink diamond eternity ring. In some lights it has a pink/brown tinge, in others a pure pink. The ring flashes incredibly beautifully with pink, red, blue, green etc. Very sparkly. However, it looks best with a thin white diamond band on either side as I''ve found that pink diamonds can look a little too flesh coloured and so lose their impact. With the whites on either side it emphasizes and enhances the overall look.

 

[Trinity Creation]

Date: 9/6/2009 3:06:00 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
I don''t know if this helps or not. I recently bought a pink diamond eternity ring. In some lights it has a pink/brown tinge, in others a pure pink. The ring flashes incredibly beautifully with pink, red, blue, green etc. Very sparkly. However, it looks best with a thin white diamond band on either side as I''ve found that pink diamonds can look a little too flesh coloured and so lose their impact. With the whites on either side it emphasizes and enhances the overall look.

LovingDiamonds your info really does help me out a lot. There are not many vendors around where I live that have pink diamonds so I wanted to know what I could expect. May I ask where you choose to get yours and the cost? Would you buy it again or get something else??

 

[newsboysgrl777]

Date: 9/6/2009 3:06:00 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
I don''t know if this helps or not. I recently bought a pink diamond eternity ring. In some lights it has a pink/brown tinge, in others a pure pink. The ring flashes incredibly beautifully with pink, red, blue, green etc. Very sparkly. However, it looks best with a thin white diamond band on either side as I''ve found that pink diamonds can look a little too flesh coloured and so lose their impact. With the whites on either side it emphasizes and enhances the overall look.

Is there any chance you would be willing to share photos? Or, if you already have, could you link to that thread? Pretty please??

TY!!

 

[Trinity Creation]

Here is one I was considering.....

http://www.lussori.com/pink-diamond-ring-platinum-18k-rose-gold-pave-diamonds-stackable.html

This was 2mm wide so I thought the stones would be barely noticable??

 

[Trinity Creation]

$850 sound too cheap for this?? .26ct 1 3/4 mm wide.