Pink diamonds worth the money???

[Trinity Creation]

Hi y''all!! I was just wondering, are pink and yellow fancy diamonds worth the money?? Does anyone know for a fact that they sparkle as well as white diamonds??

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/31/2009 4:37:20 AM
Author:Trinity Creation
Hi y'all!! I was just wondering, are pink and yellow fancy diamonds worth the money?? Does anyone know for a fact that they sparkle as well as white diamonds??

The colour is everything and the most important factor dictating value, some are cut with bringing out the best of the colour in mind rather than for the best ' sparkle.' As to prices these can vary tremendously and in some cases these stones can be hugely expensive, if you are thinking about buying a fancy colour, do your research first as there is a lot to consider. However if the cut is good then they will still sparkle.

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

Are any diamonds "worth" the money probably not but we want and buy them anyway!

Ditto to Lorelei''s post.

Pinks are pricey

 

[coda72]

It''s really up to you if you think they''re worth the money. I most likely wouldn''t spend the money for them when I can get pink and yellow sapphires for much cheaper. I have a ring with pink sapphires, and to me they''re almost as sparkly as diamonds.

 

[kenny]

Pink diamonds, or anything else, are worth what someone will pay for them.
Clearly there are enough people who DO pay those prices or else the price would fall.

Some people belive that white diamonds are not worth what is charged too.

That said, it must be difficult to determine what is a "fair" or "good" price for a particular pink diamond because there are so few of them for sale from so few vendors.
Plus, often instead of listing the price many listings say CALL FOR PRICE.
Price comparisons must be tough in the world of naturally-colored diamonds.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Great points Kenny!
Price comparison is practially impossible for pink diamonds.
Another aspect that makes it difficult is that two stones with identical color grades can have widely differing values.

Coda had a nice idea-using sapphires instead of diamonds.
However when most folks actually compare pink diamonds and pink sapphires, they find visual differences are large.
Which is partly why some people will spend the money on pink diamonds.


Lorelei also made some great points.
If sparkle is the only factor, then the only choice is a Round Brilliant.
I think there''s a lot more to it than that and the market bears this out.
Many buyers still prefer emerald cuts ( for example) over rounds even though they clearly have less "sparkle"

 

[denverappraiser]

This little treasure is coming up for auction in a few months at Christies in Hong Kong.

http://www.nationaljewelernetwork.com/njn/content_display/fashion/jewelry-auctions/e3ifd8888b3d7e4a1387b14cc39deeea13e

I guess we'll see if it meets the reserve (probably about $5m) and can then decide if it's worth the money.

Here's one that sold in that same auction house in 2005 where they asked for and got $1,8M.

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=4503902&sid=9b99d665-1f09-4339-b949-1e52588393f1


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[AustenNut]

$600,000 a carat! Dang. Too rich for my blood.

 

[Trinity Creation]

; HEIGHT: 131px" class="ibbquote">Date: 8/31/2009 11:02:13 AM
Author: kenny
Pink diamonds, or anything else, are worth what someone will pay for them.
Clearly there are enough people who DO pay those prices or else the price would fall.

Some people belive that white diamonds are not worth what is charged too.

That said, it must be difficult to determine what is a ''fair'' or ''good'' price for a particular pink diamond because there are so few of them for sale from so few vendors.
Plus, often instead of listing the price many listings say CALL FOR PRICE.
Price comparisons must be tough in the world of naturally-colored diamonds.

Kenny, it is false to believe the price of diamonds would fall due to people who cannot afford them. DeBeers controlls at least 80% of the diamond industry. The price of gold, platinum, and silver always move according to market unstability but the price of diamonds themselves stay the say. Who do you think keeps the price of diamonds so high??? In our economic crisis where good people have lost their savings and are loosing their homes it is completely INSANE that diamond prices stay so high!!!

 

[Trinity Creation]

Yeah, that is way overpriced.

I was interested in a little pink diamond stacking eternity band under 2mm. I know pink fancy diamonds are past Z on the color scale, that is why I was asking if they sparkle like white diamonds. I read that the closer color to Z on the color scale the less sparkle you get, so how about color past Z??

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 8/31/2009 10:44:08 PM
Author: Trinity Creation
Yeah, that is way overpriced.

I was interested in a little pink diamond stacking eternity band under 2mm. I know pink fancy diamonds are past Z on the color scale, that is why I was asking if they sparkle like white diamonds. I read that the closer color to Z on the color scale the less sparkle you get, so how about color past Z??

Colors beyond the Z range are fancy colored diamonds. They have their own grading system. Such as how intense the color, how vivid, how saturated, etc.... It's a different process when grading fancy colors than grading stones in the normal color range, d-z..

A well cut fancy colored diamond will sparkle like crazy. You'll just pay a lot more for the color...

 

[kenny]

Sparkle is more determined by cut than color.

"White diamonds are graded on a D through Z scale, with D being colorless and the other end of the alphabet is what labs have determined is a certain range of brown or yellow.
We are told diamonds closer to D are more rare, and that the grades which are closer to the end of the alphabet are more common in nature - but who knows how DeBeers influences what comes to market.
There is wide agreement that higher color, DEF is more desirable (they are clearly more expensive) than lower color though even this gets controversial as some buyers embrace the lower colors.
Some luck buyers claim to actually prefer diamonds closer to Z in color so they can get larger stones for the same price.

The diamonds that labs consider to be natural fancy color, be it pink, green, blue, yellow etc do not fall on that D through Z range of "white" diamonds.
Fancy yellow colors are considered to be more rare and attractive than the Z end of the D-Z white range. - But tell this to a woman who LOVES her W and you may get a black eye.

But you cannot argue with how they are priced, no room for opinion there.
Other specs being equal, a stone that GIA gave a natural Fancy Vivid Yellow grade to is going to be priced MUCH higher than one the same lab graded T.

Again, some buyers want and say they actually prefer diamonds in the [white D-Z] S T V W X Y Z range.
They like the yellow and are not paying the huge premium they'd pay if it was graded as a fancy yellow.
Lucky them.

 

[Trinity Creation]

Thanks for your responses. I love the delicate color of pink diamonds compared to pink sapphires. Does anyone know a credible jeweler who won''t rip me off and could get me a pink diamond eternity band?? How about Leon Mege?? I like his work, but he doesn''t seem to do much of the pink diamonds, maybe his supplier isn''t that great???

 

[Kaleigh]

www.thefacetscollection.com When browsing don't miss their Maternity collection, lots of Pink Sapphire eternity bands.. I think they seem like a really good value, but many miss them because of the Maternity heading.. Also check out Pearlman's. He has a ton of designers to choose from... There are so many PS vendors that can do this for you. I have seen some from Facets, and have bought from them and the same with Pearlman's. I'd talk to Leon Mege, I know he's done pink sapphire bands in the past... Best to call and see what he has to say... Good luck. I think pink sapphires when well cut, and are that lovely saturated pink are just soooo pretty.
Let us know what you decide...

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI all!
Kenny- you mentioned that all fancy grades fall outside D-Z- however that is not the case.
If a stone is graded "Light Pink" for example- the shade would be equivalent to maybe....M color, but still gets called Light Pink. The same holds true for Light Green. Although the intensity of shade would fall between D and Y-Z, GIA does not mention any color other than the Light Pink ( or green).
An exception would be brown, where GIA will describe a color by letter grade, then add the qualifier "Faint Brown"

We''ve found that well cut pinks in smaller sizes do have plenty of sparkle. Different than a D, however if someone wants pink they are probably not looking for the same type of sparkle.

 

[kenny]

Thanks David.
So some diamonds could be both a fancy-colored diamond, say cognac, champagne or yellow, AND ALSO fit in the white-diamond D and Z scale?
How fascinating.

How does GIA decide whether to grade it as a fancy colored stone or give it, say, a T grade?
The price must be very different.
Do they flip a coin?
Do they do what the client requests?

I have seen GIA colored diamond reports and GIA white diamond reports.
They are very different.
How is it that the same diamond could placed on either grading system?

 

[diagem]

Date: 9/1/2009 3:10:09 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI all!
Kenny- you mentioned that all fancy grades fall outside D-Z- however that is not the case.
If a stone is graded ''Light Pink'' for example- the shade would be equivalent to maybe....M color, but still gets called Light Pink. The same holds true for Light Green. Although the intensity of shade would fall between D and Y-Z, GIA does not mention any color other than the Light Pink ( or green).
An exception would be brown, where GIA will describe a color by letter grade, then add the qualifier ''Faint Brown''

We''ve found that well cut pinks in smaller sizes do have plenty of sparkle. Different than a D, however if someone wants pink they are probably not looking for the same type of sparkle.

Without the magic "F" word..., I believe that is what Kenny meant...

 

[Rockdiamond]

You're welcome Kenny!
I find this to be a fascinating aspect of Fancy Colored Diamonds. Almost as if GIA is "prejudiced" against brown. Why call a stone with a very slight pink tint a "Fancy Color" while a brown is an L ( for example)
Personally I feel that many U-V, W-X and Y-Z colored stones ( light yellow ones) are put at a disadvantage simply because of the difference in report- and name. To an observer, a well cut Y-Z is a yellow diamond. After all, the difference in shade between Fancy Light Yellow, and Y-Z is tiny. In fact some Y-Z colored stones are actually darker than some Fancy Light Yellow ones.
This can happen if stones are "borderline"...for example, the FLY just made Fancy Light, and the Y-Z just missed the next darker grade.

GIA won't simply do what a client asks, but they will re-check a stone. I've found them to be honest in these cases- if they feel the client is correct, they will change the grade upon re-checking.
But that's really the extent of it. The rules about how a particular diamond is color graded ( such as the M colored pink loosing the "M" part) are established, and followed.

When you say the reports are different, may I ask what you mean?
If we're speaking of non round diamonds, and comparing GIA Diamond Grading Report, versus a GIA "Colored Diamond Grading Report", the main differences I see have to do with the cover of the report.
I'm curious to know what you meant when you mentioned they were very different.

 

[diagem]

Date: 8/31/2009 6:02:42 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/31/2009 4:37:20 AM
Author:Trinity Creation
Hi y''all!! I was just wondering, are pink and yellow fancy diamonds worth the money?? Does anyone know for a fact that they sparkle as well as white diamonds??

The colour is everything and the most important factor dictating value, some are cut with bringing out the best of the colour in mind rather than for the best '' sparkle.'' As to prices these can vary tremendously and in some cases these stones can be hugely expensive, if you are thinking about buying a fancy colour, do your research first as there is a lot to consider. However if the cut is good then they will still sparkle.

So true...

A Diamond is a Diamond...

If you cut a genuine strong-bodied Fancy yellow (or other) into a standard cut and it will posses its genuine color both in the face up and in its body..., its a incredible rare specimen these day and they are super pricey and "sparkly" too

..., just like the colorless ones. (some exceptions in the overly ''deep'' hues and cloudy material which accompany them)...

An intense/vivid colored standard step cut might cost a few times the "cut-for-color" cuts dominating the market these days..., a standard cut RB will cost even more...

 

[diagem]

Date: 9/1/2009 4:55:55 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
You''re welcome Kenny!
I find this to be a fascinating aspect of Fancy Colored Diamonds. Almost as if GIA is ''prejudiced'' against brown. Why call a stone with a very slight pink tint a ''Fancy Color'' while a brown is an L ( for example)

Light (or faint) pinks are not categorized as "Fancy" by GIA. (Just faint or light-- no Fancy word in description)...

Personally I feel that many U-V, W-X and Y-Z colored stones ( light yellow ones) are put at a disadvantage simply because of the difference in report- and name. To an observer, a well cut Y-Z is a yellow diamond. After all, the difference in shade between Fancy Light Yellow, and Y-Z is tiny. In fact some Y-Z colored stones are actually darker than some Fancy Light Yellow ones.
This can happen if stones are ''borderline''...for example, the FLY just made Fancy Light, and the Y-Z just missed the next darker grade.

Disadvantage to who???

GIA won''t simply do what a client asks, but they will re-check a stone. I''ve found them to be honest in these cases- if they feel the client is correct, they will change the grade upon re-checking.
But that''s really the extent of it. The rules about how a particular diamond is color graded ( such as the M colored pink loosing the ''M'' part) are established, and followed.

When you say the reports are different, may I ask what you mean?
If we''re speaking of non round diamonds, and comparing GIA Diamond Grading Report, versus a GIA ''Colored Diamond Grading Report'', the main differences I see have to do with the cover of the report.
I''m curious to know what you meant when you mentioned they were very different.

 

[Rockdiamond]

With regads to the second post above Diagem.... so true!
Rounds in fancy colors are so very rare- and can cost double what the same color radiant can cost.

Step cuts as well
There was one time a cutter friend of mine showed me the most beautiful 4 and a half carat yellow emerald cut and asked me what I would grade the color.
I saw it as "fancy Light Yellow"- and he agreed, but would not let me buy he diamond.
Why?
"Do you know how much more a 4ct Fancy Yellow Radiant is worth compared to a 4 and half ct fancy Light Yellow Emerald cut?", he asked. Yes, I sadly answered.
Next time I saw the stone it was a (gorgeous) radiant.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 9/1/2009 5:13:44 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 9/1/2009 4:55:55 PM

Author: Rockdiamond

You''re welcome Kenny!

I find this to be a fascinating aspect of Fancy Colored Diamonds. Almost as if GIA is ''prejudiced'' against brown. Why call a stone with a very slight pink tint a ''Fancy Color'' while a brown is an L ( for example)


Light (or faint) pinks are not categorized as ''Fancy'' by GIA. (Just faint or light-- no Fancy word in description)...


Personally I feel that many U-V, W-X and Y-Z colored stones ( light yellow ones) are put at a disadvantage simply because of the difference in report- and name. To an observer, a well cut Y-Z is a yellow diamond. After all, the difference in shade between Fancy Light Yellow, and Y-Z is tiny. In fact some Y-Z colored stones are actually darker than some Fancy Light Yellow ones.

This can happen if stones are ''borderline''...for example, the FLY just made Fancy Light, and the Y-Z just missed the next darker grade.


Disadvantage to who???


GIA won''t simply do what a client asks, but they will re-check a stone. I''ve found them to be honest in these cases- if they feel the client is correct, they will change the grade upon re-checking.

But that''s really the extent of it. The rules about how a particular diamond is color graded ( such as the M colored pink loosing the ''M'' part) are established, and followed.


When you say the reports are different, may I ask what you mean?

If we''re speaking of non round diamonds, and comparing GIA Diamond Grading Report, versus a GIA ''Colored Diamond Grading Report'', the main differences I see have to do with the cover of the report.

I''m curious to know what you meant when you mentioned they were very different.

Disadvantage to the cutter, primarily.
If the shade difference is practically invisible, there can still be a huge difference in price. If the rough was bought anticipating Fancy Light, comes out Y-Z, the cutter just lost a bundle.
At the same time, this can be a HUGE advantage to the consumer who can buy a far larger well cut yellow for a price quite a bit lower than even commercial "white" diamonds.

 

[diagem]

Date: 9/1/2009 5:15:58 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
With regads to the second post above Diagem.... so true!
Rounds in fancy colors are so very rare- and can cost double what the same color radiant can cost.
You are conservative here....

Step cuts as well
There was one time a cutter friend of mine showed me the most beautiful 4 and a half carat yellow emerald cut and asked me what I would grade the color.
I saw it as ''fancy Light Yellow''- and he agreed, but would not let me buy he diamond.
Why?
''Do you know how much more a 4ct Fancy Yellow Radiant is worth compared to a 4 and half ct fancy Light Yellow Emerald cut?'', he asked. Yes, I sadly answered.
Next time I saw the stone it was a (gorgeous) radiant.

Who''s disadvantage again???

 

[diagem]

Date: 9/1/2009 5:20:15 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 9/1/2009 5:13:44 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 9/1/2009 4:55:55 PM

Author: Rockdiamond

You''re welcome Kenny!

I find this to be a fascinating aspect of Fancy Colored Diamonds. Almost as if GIA is ''prejudiced'' against brown. Why call a stone with a very slight pink tint a ''Fancy Color'' while a brown is an L ( for example)


Light (or faint) pinks are not categorized as ''Fancy'' by GIA. (Just faint or light-- no Fancy word in description)...


Personally I feel that many U-V, W-X and Y-Z colored stones ( light yellow ones) are put at a disadvantage simply because of the difference in report- and name. To an observer, a well cut Y-Z is a yellow diamond. After all, the difference in shade between Fancy Light Yellow, and Y-Z is tiny. In fact some Y-Z colored stones are actually darker than some Fancy Light Yellow ones.

This can happen if stones are ''borderline''...for example, the FLY just made Fancy Light, and the Y-Z just missed the next darker grade.


Disadvantage to who???


GIA won''t simply do what a client asks, but they will re-check a stone. I''ve found them to be honest in these cases- if they feel the client is correct, they will change the grade upon re-checking.

But that''s really the extent of it. The rules about how a particular diamond is color graded ( such as the M colored pink loosing the ''M'' part) are established, and followed.


When you say the reports are different, may I ask what you mean?

If we''re speaking of non round diamonds, and comparing GIA Diamond Grading Report, versus a GIA ''Colored Diamond Grading Report'', the main differences I see have to do with the cover of the report.

I''m curious to know what you meant when you mentioned they were very different.

Disadvantage to the cutter, primarily.
If the shade difference is practically invisible, there can still be a huge difference in price. If the rough was bought anticipating Fancy Light, comes out Y-Z, the cutter just lost a bundle.

Usually its the opposite..., cutter buys a parcel of dark Capes and tricks the cut into a "Fancy" light whatever and charges double....

At the same time, this can be a HUGE advantage to the consumer who can buy a far larger well cut yellow for a price quite a bit lower than even commercial ''white'' diamonds.

But that is why you barely see the W-X-Y-Z stones..., they live in a resubmit to GIA mode until they get lucky....

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Diagem,
The cutter that got Fancy Yellow on the re-cut emerald....do you know how many times he had dissapointing results from GIA?
Many times.
Any idea how much capitol you need to be in that part of the business?
MANY millions of dollars.
I hope he does make money.
If there's no profit, then there's no diamonds. Who wins then?


In terms of Y-Z, U-V, W-X, and even S-T stones- we see them all the time. The cutter I mentioned - and many others we deal with- accept GIA's findings and sell at prices the market will bear.
They need to take a loss sometimes to get the money back, so they can buy more rough, hopefully to have a windfall.
It would not seem to make sense to simply hold onto Y-Z stones in the hope GIA will alter it's view.

 

[kroshka]

Date: 8/31/2009 11:44:53 PM
Author: Trinity Creation
Thanks for your responses. I love the delicate color of pink diamonds compared to pink sapphires. Does anyone know a credible jeweler who won't rip me off and could get me a pink diamond eternity band?? How about Leon Mege?? I like his work, but he doesn't seem to do much of the pink diamonds, maybe his supplier isn't that great???

Leon does deal with pink diamonds - here are some examples:

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=386&mode=search

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=368&mode=search

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=349&mode=search

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=341&mode=search

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=86&mode=search

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=175&mode=search

Just realize that pink diamonds can be costly depending on the quality and color shade you want. Although I don't care for treated colored diamonds, those are also available and less expensive.

kroshka

 

[diagem]

Date: 9/1/2009 5:36:06 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Diagem,
The cutter that got Fancy Yellow on the re-cut emerald....do you know how many times he had dissapointing results from GIA?
Many times.
Any idea how much capitol you need to be in that part of the business?
MANY millions of dollars.
I hope he does make money.
If there''s no profit, then there''s no diamonds. Who wins then?


In terms of Y-Z, U-V, W-X, and even S-T stones- we see them all the time. The cutter I mentioned - and many others we deal with- accept GIA''s findings and sell at prices the market will bear.
They need to take a loss sometimes to get the money back, so they can buy more rough, hopefully to have a windfall.
It would not seem to make sense to simply hold onto Y-Z stones in the hope GIA will alter it''s view.

Why? you said yourself: "In fact some Y-Z colored stones are actually darker than some Fancy Light Yellow ones."

Do you know any financial instrument that will pay you a better return???

 

[Trinity Creation]

Date: 9/1/2009 5:36:06 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Diagem,
The cutter that got Fancy Yellow on the re-cut emerald....do you know how many times he had dissapointing results from GIA?
Many times.
Any idea how much capitol you need to be in that part of the business?
MANY millions of dollars.
I hope he does make money.
If there''s no profit, then there''s no diamonds. Who wins then?


In terms of Y-Z, U-V, W-X, and even S-T stones- we see them all the time. The cutter I mentioned - and many others we deal with- accept GIA''s findings and sell at prices the market will bear.
They need to take a loss sometimes to get the money back, so they can buy more rough, hopefully to have a windfall.
It would not seem to make sense to simply hold onto Y-Z stones in the hope GIA will alter it''s view.

David, are you saying it''s okey to then cheat the client just so you can make a profit????

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI trinity,
I ask with all due respect what I wrote that gave you such an idea?
If the cutter could do as Diagem is suggesting- that being keep resubimitting a stone to get a higher grade, it's still not "cheating"- it's trying to use the system to make a higher price.
If cutters can't make money, they can't continue to cut diamonds- that's just business, not cheating.
If a cutter is smart enough to produce a 4carat stone worth more than a 4.5 he started with, that sounds also like smart business. Personally, I loved the step cut and was very sad that he chose to cut it to a radiant.I get attached to the goods.
That's one of the reasons ( among a gazillion others) I could never be a diamond cutter.

Diagem, specifically how would this work?
Say a dealer or cutter has a Y-Z which they feel is as dark as a Fancy Light Yellow.
Do they submit it monthly? Hold it a few years and try again, while refusing to accept a fair price, based on the current GIA report?
The financial instrument which would pay a far better return would be for cutters to accept market value on such stones, and use the money over and over again.

 

[diagem]

Date: 9/1/2009 6:43:25 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI trinity,
I ask with all due respect what I wrote that gave you such an idea?

Yes..., I wonder what gave trinity that idea too?

If the cutter could do as Diagem is suggesting- that being keep resubimitting a stone to get a higher grade, it''s still not ''cheating''- it''s trying to use the system to make a higher price.
If cutters can''t make money, they can''t continue to cut diamonds- that''s just business, not cheating.
If a cutter is smart enough to produce a 4carat stone worth more than a 4.5 he started with, that sounds also like smart business. Personally, I loved the step cut and was very sad that he chose to cut it to a radiant.I get attached to the goods.
That''s one of the reasons ( among a gazillion others) I could never be a diamond cutter.

Diagem, specifically how would this work?
Say a dealer or cutter has a Y-Z which they feel is as dark as a Fancy Light Yellow.
Do they submit it monthly? Hold it a few years and try again, while refusing to accept a fair price, based on the current GIA report?
The financial instrument which would pay a far better return would be for cutters to accept market value on such stones, and use the money over and over again.

RD..., you know well its customary in the industry to simply resubmit close calls for "new" reports as re-checks became pretty much a useless battle at GIA...

If a 4.50 ct Cape EC is valued at $X total...., what would a 4.00 ct Fancy (light) yellow be valued in comparisons?