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Paraiba Tourmaline Question

P10431

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Hope all is well with everyone. I have a question about a large blue tourmaline. Is this type of color considered Paraiba tourmaline or just blue tourmaline? Thanks in advance! 000pt.jpg
 

Luke76

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To my knowledge, paraiba tourmaline is a copper-bearing tourmaline, which exhibits a typical "neon" blue color...
As a matter of fact, the color can be light blue, bright blue and bluish green.
However, the presence of Cu identifies the gem as paraiba
https://www.gemsociety.org/forums/topic/paraiba-or-copper-bearing-tourmaline-how-can-i-know/
Since paraiba tourmaline is one of the most valuable gem in the trade, you might consider to have your stone analyzed by a qualified Gem Lab.
Ciao!
 
S

SparkliesLuver

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It's nearly impossible to definitively say from looking at photos; however, my guess would be a blue tourmaline, if you're 100% sure it's a tourmaline. I second Luke's comment about getting it tested by a reputable lab, if you want to know what it is for sure.
 

LD

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SparkliesLuver|1445946551|3942489 said:
It's nearly impossible to definitively say from looking at photos; however, my guess would be a blue tourmaline, if you're 100% sure it's a tourmaline. I second Luke's comment about getting it tested by a reputable lab, if you want to know what it is for sure.

I keep looking at your stone and I'm not 100% sure that it's Tourmaline? Have you had it appraised as Tourmaline or had it tested by a jeweller by any chance?

If it is Tourmaline then, although a very nice stone, it doesn't exhibit the qualities of a "Paraiba" as it doesn't have a neon glow. It may well contain copper (if it's a Tourmaline) but unfortunately that wouldn't be enough to give it the designated title of Paraiba.
 

chrono

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Step 1: Have it tested and verified for sure that it is tourmaline .
Step 2: Have it tested for irradiation if this is an important piece to you. The unfortunate part is that this treatment is often undisclosed and can be difficult to detect, even by the labs.

It doesn't seem to glow although it is a very pretty open blue.
 

LD

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I thought I saw a post saying that you were going to get the gem tested by the GIA - any testing is sensible especially if you want clarity as to what the stone is/isn't.

I thought you might want to see the reasons why I don't think it's a Tourmaline:

(a) the size
(b) the clarity
(c) the colour speaks more of Topaz than Tourmaline
(d) the setting - if this were a gem of note, typically, the setting would be more elaborate.

Indicolite Tourmaline (blue Tourmaline) which has a different chemical make up to Paraiba can be stunning. If you're lucky this is an Indicolite which would make it a very nice gemstone indeed. See below picture for an Indicolite

indicolite_tourmaline.jpg

indicolite_tourmaline1.jpg
 

chrono

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LD |1445959616|3942565 said:
I thought you might want to see the reasons why I don't think it's a Tourmaline:

(a) the size
(b) the clarity
(c) the colour speaks more of Topaz than Tourmaline
(d) the setting - if this were a gem of note, typically, the setting would be more elaborate.

I agree with the reasons stated above.
 

minousbijoux

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LD |1445950995|3942527 said:
I keep looking at your stone and I'm not 100% sure that it's Tourmaline? Have you had it appraised as Tourmaline or had it tested by a jeweller by any chance?

If it is Tourmaline then, although a very nice stone, it doesn't exhibit the qualities of a "Paraiba" as it doesn't have a neon glow. It may well contain copper (if it's a Tourmaline) but unfortunately that wouldn't be enough to give it the designated title of Paraiba.

I had the same reaction as LD (no surprise there!) that I would question whether its a tourmaline. There is something about the hue of blue (if the photo is representative of what you actually see in hand) and its size that makes me think it might be another stone type. If it is a tourmaline, for sure not a "Paraiba" but an uncommon deep blue nonetheless - and very pretty to boot. Keep in mind that there are many tourmalines that contain copper that would never be considered Paraiba. In fact, they are often found and sold on ebay to unsuspecting buyers who think just because it is copper bearing it will be considered a Paraiba. As LD has mentioned, an intensity of color in the form of an other worldly glow, or neon quality, is what makes a Paraiba tourmaline. Do get it tested and let us know. :))
 

GregS

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Another person that doesn't think it's a Tourmaline. I'll venture a guess that it's irradiated Topaz.
 

minousbijoux

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I'd save yourself some money and send it to AGL for a brief.
 

P10431

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I'd like to share with you another ring from my mother's collection (over 20mm oval cut). This one, I believe, is a real neon blue Pt. What say you?
 
S

SparkliesLuver

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It looks like the same ring. :confused: My comments from above still stand.
 

P10431

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No, it's not the same ring; they are two different rings. Here is another image for you to see again.
 

LD

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I'm so sorry but it's nowhere near a Paraiba Tourmaline. I understand you want it to be (who wouldn't) but if you have ever seen this material in real life you'd understand how it just doesn't have the same qualities. I hate having to say this but it's better to be truthful than get your hopes up. :blackeye: I would agree that it looks very similar to the other ring as well.

What both rings look like are the type of Tourmaline (if they are Tourmaline) that are sold on the TV shopping channels. I've seen claims of "Paraiba" material on there that have fallen well short of what you'd expect. What are the maker's marks on the inside of the shank please?

This is what a Paraiba should look like if it's neon. Please note the inclusions - and these are much smaller than both your rings. These are typical Paraiba material:

paraiba_tourmaline_4.jpg

tourmaline_showing_inclusion_2.jpg
 

minousbijoux

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Definitely NOT Paraiba, not even close. They both look like irradiated blue topaz.
 

chrono

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I highly recommend sending both stones out to a good lab. Both look more like topaz than tourmaline.
 

P10431

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My mother's ring was purchased a while back from an antique store. It's not from a shopping channel. It's mounted on a 14k. The other one is also mounted on 14k. I appreciate all the replies. Thanks!
 

dk168

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I am no expert, however, they do not look like Tourmaline to me, let alone Paraiba.

I too believe they are irradiated blue Topaz.

DK :))
 

P10431

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My mother's ring has similar inclusions on the surface as the second one of your examples. It also has a conchoidal fracture around the rim.
 

LD

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P10431|1445973643|3942683 said:
My mother's ring was purchased a while back from an antique store. It's not from a shopping channel. It's mounted on a 14k. The other one is also mounted on 14k. I appreciate all the replies. Thanks!

If you're in any doubt (and of course you shouldn't take our word) then please send to AGL (not GIA) as Minousbijoux has suggested. It'll cost you less and they're the experts in coloured gemstones. However, before you do that, do you have a local jeweller who could quickly check the RI of both stones? This will tell you categorically whether the material is Tourmaline or Topaz. Some jewellers will do this for free but others may charge a small amount. If they register as Topaz then there's no need to send for the more expensive lab testing. The general opinion I think is that these are both irrradiated Topaz but an RI will tell you that x
 

LD

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P10431|1445973920|3942688 said:
My mother's ring has similar inclusions on the surface as the second one of your examples. It also has a conchoidal fracture around the rim.

Conchoidal fractures are often seen in quartz and obsidian (glass) to name just 2. Unless you've studied gemstones for a long time (under the microscope) it's almost impossible to distinguish between inclusions. Looking at both your Mother's rings, you can see that they are both virtually eye clean. For a Tourmaline of - I think you said 22mm - to be virtually eye clean is rare. If you had a stone that rare, would you put it in a massed produced ring shank?

I'm guessing that it doesn't matter what we tell you, you are convinced these are both Paraibas so I would really urge you to have some testing done as I mentioned in my post above. Good luck and I hope you find the answers.
 

minousbijoux

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LD |1445974280|3942692 said:
P10431|1445973920|3942688 said:
My mother's ring has similar inclusions on the surface as the second one of your examples. It also has a conchoidal fracture around the rim.

Conchoidal fractures are often seen in quartz and obsidian (glass) to name just 2. Unless you've studied gemstones for a long time (under the microscope) it's almost impossible to distinguish between inclusions. Looking at both your Mother's rings, you can see that they are both virtually eye clean. For a Tourmaline of - I think you said 22mm - to be virtually eye clean is rare. If you had a stone that rare, would you put it in a massed produced ring shank?

I'm guessing that it doesn't matter what we tell you, you are convinced these are both Paraibas so I would really urge you to have some testing done as I mentioned in my post above. Good luck and I hope you find the answers.

I just submitted a long reply and lost it unfortunately. :(sad

But anyway, I was going to say something very similar. Now that you've said conchoidal fractures, my inclination is not to even bother with a lab, because that says glass to me. And actually, that makes sense given the specific shade of blue they appear to be. Such fractures are one indicator, and LD has enumerated the others. Not a tourmaline, and NOT a Paraiba.

Many of us have been there - we've inherited something we think is of value and don't want to let go of that possibility. But so many posters come to this forum with jewelry they've been given by their Mother/Father/Aunt/Grandmother where they've been told its a valuable __________. Two of the most common posts are for Paraiba tourmaline and alexandrite and 99% of the time they are glass or synthetic. One indicator to be considered is the setting. Typically, valuable stones were set in valuable settings. That does not mean in unadorned 14k settings, but in 18k or platinum with design elements, details, and good metalwork. I know its not what you want to hear. :(sad But your rings are a pretty blue. Can you just enjoy them as is?
 

LD

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minousbijoux

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Huh, it is odd that the photos have been removed...wonder why? :confused:
 

P10431

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Just received a reply from a reputable GIA graduate who specializes in studying tourmaline, ruby and sapphire. He said my mother's ring is a PT and a beautiful neon color with enough saturation. For the other one, he said it could be a violet blue PT but they are very rare to find in a large size. Thanks for all replies, sayonara!
 

Acinom

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Apparantly the additional photo's have been removed?
In your first pic the stone looks like irradiated topaz. A beautiful stone and ring but it does look like Paraiba at all.
It seems to be very important to you that the stone is a Paraiba? I am happy for you that the GIA graduate could define in seemingly a very short time that the stone is what you wanted it to be. From the pic I do not detect the glow though
 

lovedogs

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Acinom|1445980190|3942744 said:
Apparantly the additional photo's have been removed?
In your first pic the stone looks like irradiated topaz. A beautiful stone and ring but it does look like Paraiba at all.
It seems to be very important to you that the stone is a Paraiba? I am happy for you that the GIA graduate could define in seemingly a very short time that the stone is what you wanted it to be. From the pic I do not detect the glow though

Agreed, and this thread overall confuses me a little :confused: since it seems like OP is asking questions but refusing to hear the answers. Either way, to the OP: I hope you are happy with the outcome, but I have to add my voice to the opinion that it is very unlikely to be a PT, and potentially is not a tourmaline at all.
 

GregS

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P10431|1445979795|3942741 said:
Just received a reply from a reputable GIA graduate who specializes in studying tourmaline, ruby and sapphire. He said my mother's ring is a PT and a beautiful neon color with enough saturation. For the other one, he said it could be a violet blue PT but they are very rare to find in a large size. Thanks for all replies, sayonara!
This GIA graduate made these conclusions based on pictures? Are you open to these stones being anything other than Tourmaline? If not then please say so and people will stop trying to guide you in the correct direction. You came here to ask for help. So I will say again, I do not think the pictures in your first post are that of a Tourmaline. Take the stone to a jeweler that can do a few quick tests, but only do so if you're open to the idea of these stones not being Tourmalines.
 

dk168

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:wall: Ah well, at least we tried.

DK :rolleyes:
 
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