Overparenting.

[Indylady]

My parents might fit some definition of over-parenting. I'm grateful for it. I have a really happy adult life, and a large part of it is because of the immense care and effort they put into my my childhood and my life generally. I hated it as a kid, though.

 

[arkieb1]

I think in some ways people have been forced to overparent because the world is not a safe place for children any more. Kids used to play in the street with their friends years ago and everyone was cool with that. Now days people don't allow this to happen as much because some don't know their neighbours and you don't know who could be watching or indeed taking your kids.

Having said that doing everything to a micro level for your kids is teaching them to be useless and one of the best lessons they can learn is being resilient. I have met both people who badly overparent like cutting up the grape, and people who let their kids destroy stuff and are completely oblivious to their little monsters. Being a good parent is a tough job, finding a healthy balance between keeping your kids safe and letting them know it is O.K to fail and do things on their own is not always easy, I'd like to think that we attempt to find a good balance between the two.

 

[Gypsy]

I find it hard to believe that young adults won't and/or can't function as productive adults simply because they had parents that engaged in over parenting. I know tons of people who don't have their SSN's memorized, so I don't think it's fair to lump that into this particular discussion. There are some people that simply lack common sense and/or practical sense and will always struggle with common sense-type life skills.
As a mother, there are certain things that I like to do for my children. After all, I had kids of a reason and that reason was to become a mother/to care for and raise someone. I am aware that my 9 year-old son is fully capable of putting an Eggo waffle in the toaster, but I still like to help with breakfast each morning before school. My husband always tells me how I shouldn't be doing things like this for the kids because they can do it for themselves. Sure they can do it themselves, but then again, I'm pretty sure that my son is still going to know how to make his own waffles in college despite the fact that his mommy made them for him when he was younger….

Momhappy, whether you believe it or not, it's a fact and there a lots of psychologist that specialize in helping parents and kids with these issues, and it's a growing field. From my own perspective: I’ve seen it, and lived it. My mom was a helicopter mom in many ways. And that left me much younger than my peers and lead to me making some very poor choices because I wasn’t prepared for reality and because I didn’t know HOW to make difficult decisions on my own. And I’ve seen it again and again around me. Overparenting does a child no favors and leaves them unprepared to life as independent individuals who can successfully deal with the harsh realities out there. It is counterproductive and harmful. It comes from a good place: love. But that doesn't mean it's a good thing

You mentioned that don't let your 9 year old eat unsupervised because of fears of choking, and your own childhood trauma related to that. Well, that's one way to handle it and that’s the way that makes you most comfortable because it’s about prevention. But it’s not about your comfort, IMO. Your kid is 9, so another way is to teach the kid how to do the Heimlich maneuver on himself and that way, he's learned a skill that could save his life or someone else, and gives him independence too. And then let him eat alone showing him that you trust him to take care of himself. Which builds his confidence. And that is preparation, which is harder on you but better for them. Your kids are always going to be exposed to danger. When kids are little (under you have to do a lot of protection, less preparation. I think that shifts over at 8 and 9, and parents with overparenting issues try to keep their kids young and dependent instead of encouraging their independence and knowledge of reality and how to cope with it starting right at 8-12. Whether your go-to impulse is prevention or preparation at 8 and over, and whether you let the impulse for protection overcome your responsibility to prepare them-- I think is where the overparenting comes in. That's certainly what happened with my mom.

I do disagree with your statement that, "I had kids of a reason and that reason was to become a mother/to care for and raise someone." Again, it's not about you and what you want. Having your desire to take care of them trump your responsibility to encourage their independence is a flag IMO. Your kids are little adults in the making. They are not there to fulfill your life. They are there to fulfill theirs. IMO, a parents job is to help them in that goal, not keep them young to fulfill your own agenda.

But then again, I don’t know you or your kids. You do say that your husband, who I assume lives with you and sees how you parent, is telling you that you overparent you kids at times. It sounds like he's telling you this because he's worried about his kids. There might be something to that.

I'm only saying this because you brought it up and I'm not in anyway trying to attack you. I'm just telling you things from a different perspective. That of a daughter who was helicoptered. And whose mother meant well... but ultimately did harm by overparenting. I WAS that kid that didn't know their social security number. And it had nothing to do with my CAPACITY for common sense or practicality and everything to do with my mom, the safety net helicopter, never encouraging me to LEARN common sense or practicality because it would have meant cutting apron strings she didn't want to cut. It was easier for her to take care of it all, and it fulfilled her desire to be needed, so instead of telling me what I needed to do and showing me how to do it, she did it for me.

Best to you,
Me

 

[iheartscience]

I think in some ways people have been forced to overparent because the world is not a safe place for children any more. Kids used to play in the street with their friends years ago and everyone was cool with that. Now days people don't allow this to happen as much because some don't know their neighbours and you don't know who could be watching or indeed taking your kids.

A lot of people say this, but it's not factually correct. The crime rate today is equal to what it was in the 70s and 80s. The only thing that's changed is the culture and easy access to horror stories due to increased media consumption and sensationalism.

I disagree that just because you're not a parent, you can't have opinions on parenting. We all interact with people who were parented by helicopter parents on a daily basis, so it's not like these kids exist in a vacuum. I've supervised employees who couldn't do a thing unless you told them exactly what to do, because they were never given the freedom to think for themselves. A friend of mine is in a relationship with someone whose parents continue to pay their bills for them and they're over the age of 30. It affects us all!

 

[Maria D]

Thanks for that thing2of2; it's good to be reminded that perception of crime (in the US) doesn't equal the reality.

In my neighborhood in Maine, children are still playing outside with only light supervision (parent at home if needed but cannot see/hear their child at all times). My own daughter was allowed at age 10 to go off with a friend and catch frogs in a pond about a quarter mile away separated from my house by a wooded area. Childhood friends of mine who live in a different state thought I was out of my mind even though we went further than that when we were kids! Because: "things are different these days." Or so everyone thinks. Kids walk to and from elementary school here, just under a mile away. There's a bus for kindergarteners and first graders - by 2nd grade you have to live at least a mile away to qualify.

As a high school teacher, I deal with more teens and parents of teens than the average person. Sure, parenting levels range from outright neglect to overbearing control but most parents are not extremists either way. I do see evidence of parents thwarting their child's growth by too much coddling and I've been guilty of it myself. But I think many of the examples here are completely over the line. Cutting grapes for a child with a full set of molars? That's ridiculous! How about simple table manners - don't stuff your mouth, chew before swallowing. Writing their papers/doing their homework? School is *their* job. Their pay is learning. If you do their work for them you've robbed them of their pay. What are these parents going to do when their kid is in college? Universities don't deal with anyone but the student - even though parents are expected to finance education. (And don't tell me - I've read the horror stories of parents fighting with professors about grades!)

One of my pet peeves is parent/teacher conferences when the parent comes without the student. What is the point of you and I talking about your 16 year old without her there? "What does Sally need to do to bring up her grade, I'd like for her to get an A." Well that's nice, what does Sally think? Maybe if she were *here* she could explain to you that being a 3-season athlete, in the band and on the student council prevents her from putting in the hours of work needed to get an A in this advanced math class. You can't do it for her!

 

[texaskj]

Unless it's your dad. They always ask how old you are and they never guess right.

Mine would always say, "How old are you now?"
Do the math Dad, you were three weeks away from your 19th birthday when I was born. And the man has a degree in engineering.

And that overparenting can backfire. A co-worker was arguing on the phone one night with her mother and the last thing I heard was, "There's a reason why you live in Maryland, I live in Texas and your son lives in Oregon!"

 

[packrat]

Haha, mine still asks. Mom tried to explain to take two years off how long they've been married...and then he'll be quiet and say...um..ohhhmmmyeah sooo thaaaat's...

Dads are funny. Mine has a really hard time with "minus two".

 

[Dreamer_D]

The notion of a "helicopter parent" or "overparenting" is just rebranding of a phenomenom that developmental and attachment psychologists have been talking about for decades. Specifically, the problem of intrusive parenting.

Intrusive parenting is controlling parenting. All of the examples in your opening post, Gypsy, are examples of controlling and intrusive behavior. Of course, such behavior is usually perceived by the parent to be an attempt to "help" or protect the child from pain -- often pain the parent him or herself experienced as a child. If you watch a video of intrusive parenting in a controlled lab setting, you will see a parent who cannot help but interject to "help" a child do the most basic tasks. Even play! Children with intrusive parents learn to tune them out. They don't listen, because the parent is always trying to help and interject into their activities. Alternatively, kids of intrusive parents become very anxious about failure later in life, and scared to try new things for fear their parent might disapprove -- one of the inadvertent consequences of intrusive parenting is that it communicates and essential lack of trust in your child's abilities. Thus, such behavior undermines autonomy, competence, and can breed anxiety and other interpersonal issues later in life.

This is most likely a learned behavior, passed through generations. Intrusive parenting is also motivated by anxiety or other parent-centered needs. So the behavior is motivated by the parents' needs and not the true developmental needs of the child. That is generally a recipe for problems, as the key element to effective parenting is responding appropriately to the child's true needs for autonomy, relatedness, and comptenece - -the essential ingredients of well-being. Projecting our own needs onto our kids never ends well.

There have been a few interesting longitudinal studies looking at long term outcomes of intrusive parenting. One impressive study coded parental behavior during free play between mother and child for evidence of intrusiveness, and found that higher rates of intrusiveness predicted insecure attachment and unhealthy relationship behaviors (e.g., excessive anxiety) fully 22 years later.

I don't like the way the media handles this issue. I think it is just more fodder to criticize parents, particularly mothers. But this type of parenting is very common and ineffective in many ways. Intrusive parenting is simply a poor method of parenting, but it is not motivated by ill intent. Most people who act this way either do not have self-awareness concerning their actions or else they do not have the ability to control their intrusiveness due to poor self-regulatory abilities or anxiety. But, better ways of parenting can be learned if parents have access to the right resources, such as trained child psychologists.

I wish there were more resources available to parents, and less blanket criticism.

 

[Gypsy]

... one of the inadvertent consequences of intrusive parenting is that it communicates and essential lack of trust in your child's abilities. Thus, such behavior undermines autonomy, competence, and can breed anxiety and other interpersonal issues later in life.

...Intrusive parenting is also motivated by anxiety or other parent-centered needs. So the behavior is motivated by the parents' needs and not the true developmental needs of the child. That is generally a recipe for problems, as the key element to effective parenting is responding appropriately to the child's true needs for autonomy, relatedness, and comptenece - -the essential ingredients of well-being. Projecting our own needs onto our kids never ends well.

There have been a few interesting longitudinal studies looking at long term outcomes of intrusive parenting. One impressive study coded parental behavior during free play between mother and child for evidence of intrusiveness, and found that higher rates of intrusiveness predicted insecure attachment and unhealthy relationship behaviors (e.g., excessive anxiety) fully 22 years later.
.

Dreamer, thank you for that AMAZING and infomative addition to this thread. The portions above REALLY hit home for me. Both personally and observationally.

My mother very much parented from HER needs and not from mine and that was motivated by her own fears, self esteem issues, and anxieties. My mom had me because she wanted to be a mom. She rarely understood that my needs as a child are different from her needs as a mom, and that my needs for relatedness, autonomy and competence should be put first.

I personally have had an anxiety disorder since I was 21. I'm 38 and after several years of CBT therapy I've learned to cope with it, but I'm like an alcoholic.... my reality is that I am over-anxious, and I have to watch for it all the time and I'm pretty much on anti-anxiety medicine for it for the rest of my life. My mother loves me. And I was never raped, never kidnapped, never choked on a grape or anything else... and I'm grateful, but all of that was at the expense of my emotional health and I KNOW from seeing my peers that it IS possible to achieve a healthy balance between your child's physical safety and their emotional health.

And honestly, it's also a main reason why I don't think I will ever be a mom. I don't trust myself to be a good parent. And that is pretty much a direct result of my own upbringing. And that, honestly is sad.

 

[missy]

... one of the inadvertent consequences of intrusive parenting is that it communicates and essential lack of trust in your child's abilities. Thus, such behavior undermines autonomy, competence, and can breed anxiety and other interpersonal issues later in life.

...Intrusive parenting is also motivated by anxiety or other parent-centered needs. So the behavior is motivated by the parents' needs and not the true developmental needs of the child. That is generally a recipe for problems, as the key element to effective parenting is responding appropriately to the child's true needs for autonomy, relatedness, and comptenece - -the essential ingredients of well-being. Projecting our own needs onto our kids never ends well.

There have been a few interesting longitudinal studies looking at long term outcomes of intrusive parenting. One impressive study coded parental behavior during free play between mother and child for evidence of intrusiveness, and found that higher rates of intrusiveness predicted insecure attachment and unhealthy relationship behaviors (e.g., excessive anxiety) fully 22 years later.
.

Dreamer, thank you for that AMAZING and infomative addition to this thread. The portions above REALLY hit home for me. Both personally and observationally.

My mother very much parented from HER needs and not from mine and that was motivated by her own fears, self esteem issues, and anxieties. My mom had me because she wanted to be a mom. She rarely understood that my needs as a child are different from her needs as a mom, and that my needs for relatedness, autonomy and competence should be put first.

I personally have had an anxiety disorder since I was 21. I'm 38 and after several years of CBT therapy I've learned to cope with it, but I'm like an alcoholic.... my reality is that I am over-anxious, and I have to watch for it all the time and I'm pretty much on anti-anxiety medicine for it for the rest of my life. My mother loves me. And I was never raped, never kidnapped, never choked on a grape or anything else... and I'm grateful, but all of that was at the expense of my emotional health and I KNOW from seeing my peers that it IS possible to achieve a healthy balance between your child's physical safety and their emotional health.

And honestly, it's also a main reason why I don't think I will ever be a mom. I don't trust myself to be a good parent. And that is pretty much a direct result of my own upbringing. And that, honestly is sad.

I respectfully disagree Gypsy. The fact that you are self aware and realize part of the reasons you may be over-anxious (another part could be genetics which you can somewhat overcome with environment) makes you a potentially awesome parent. You are an intelligent loving kind young woman who (if you wanted to be) would make an amazing mother.

 

[LaraOnline]

Becoming a mother does force you to put your own childhood and life experiences in perspective.
Motherhood is a huge 'risk' in a way, in that it forces you to take responsibility for your relationships and your actions in a way unlike any previous responsibilities.
It grows you as it tests you, and I have found it a very healing experience overall.
Perhaps you will too, someday, Gypsy.

 

[zoebartlett]

I hesitated before replying because posting in a parenting thread when you're not a parent is not a popular thing to do here. It doesn't seem well-received. I'm not a parent but I'm an elementary teacher, and I've seen a lot of what I would consider to be over parenting. Parents who do their kid's homework, not holding them accountable for things that should be the child's responsibility, and the list goes on.

 

[momhappy]

I find it hard to believe that young adults won't and/or can't function as productive adults simply because they had parents that engaged in over parenting. I know tons of people who don't have their SSN's memorized, so I don't think it's fair to lump that into this particular discussion. There are some people that simply lack common sense and/or practical sense and will always struggle with common sense-type life skills.
As a mother, there are certain things that I like to do for my children. After all, I had kids of a reason and that reason was to become a mother/to care for and raise someone. I am aware that my 9 year-old son is fully capable of putting an Eggo waffle in the toaster, but I still like to help with breakfast each morning before school. My husband always tells me how I shouldn't be doing things like this for the kids because they can do it for themselves. Sure they can do it themselves, but then again, I'm pretty sure that my son is still going to know how to make his own waffles in college despite the fact that his mommy made them for him when he was younger….

Momhappy, whether you believe it or not, it's a fact and there a lots of psychologist that specialize in helping parents and kids with these issues, and it's a growing field. From my own perspective: I’ve seen it, and lived it. My mom was a helicopter mom in many ways. And that left me much younger than my peers and lead to me making some very poor choices because I wasn’t prepared for reality and because I didn’t know HOW to make difficult decisions on my own. And I’ve seen it again and again around me. Overparenting does a child no favors and leaves them unprepared to life as independent individuals who can successfully deal with the harsh realities out there. It is counterproductive and harmful. It comes from a good place: love. But that doesn't mean it's a good thing

You mentioned that don't let your 9 year old eat unsupervised because of fears of choking, and your own childhood trauma related to that. Well, that's one way to handle it and that’s the way that makes you most comfortable because it’s about prevention. But it’s not about your comfort, IMO. Your kid is 9, so another way is to teach the kid how to do the Heimlich maneuver on himself and that way, he's learned a skill that could save his life or someone else, and gives him independence too. And then let him eat alone showing him that you trust him to take care of himself. Which builds his confidence. And that is preparation, which is harder on you but better for them. Your kids are always going to be exposed to danger. When kids are little (under you have to do a lot of protection, less preparation. I think that shifts over at 8 and 9, and parents with overparenting issues try to keep their kids young and dependent instead of encouraging their independence and knowledge of reality and how to cope with it starting right at 8-12. Whether your go-to impulse is prevention or preparation at 8 and over, and whether you let the impulse for protection overcome your responsibility to prepare them-- I think is where the overparenting comes in. That's certainly what happened with my mom.

I do disagree with your statement that, "I had kids of a reason and that reason was to become a mother/to care for and raise someone." Again, it's not about you and what you want. Having your desire to take care of them trump your responsibility to encourage their independence is a flag IMO. Your kids are little adults in the making. They are not there to fulfill your life. They are there to fulfill theirs. IMO, a parents job is to help them in that goal, not keep them young to fulfill your own agenda.

But then again, I don’t know you or your kids. You do say that your husband, who I assume lives with you and sees how you parent, is telling you that you overparent you kids at times. It sounds like he's telling you this because he's worried about his kids. There might be something to that.

I'm only saying this because you brought it up and I'm not in anyway trying to attack you. I'm just telling you things from a different perspective. That of a daughter who was helicoptered. And whose mother meant well... but ultimately did harm by overparenting. I WAS that kid that didn't know their social security number. And it had nothing to do with my CAPACITY for common sense or practicality and everything to do with my mom, the safety net helicopter, never encouraging me to LEARN common sense or practicality because it would have meant cutting apron strings she didn't want to cut. It was easier for her to take care of it all, and it fulfilled her desire to be needed, so instead of telling me what I needed to do and showing me how to do it, she did it for me.

Best to you,
Me

Well, I guess you've got me (and my family) all figured out
First of all, I never said that I don't believe in the issues being presented here. In fact, I do agree with some of it. Years ago, I worked with a team therapists/counselors, who provided help for families in crisis, so my experience is both personal and professional.
Also, I didn't have a childhood trauma related to choking. I mentioned that I had an incident where I was able to successfully perform the heimlich on my half-sister, but I wouldn't refer to it as a "trauma" and it has nothing to do with me not allowing my young kids to eat home alone. I simply don't feel comfortable having my children eating home alone and I'm only gone for a walk down the street, so it's not like they would starve in that short period of time.
Your paragraph about how you disagree with my statement about caring/raising my kids is way off base and to be honest I don't even feel the need to explain myself. The decision to have children is incredibly complex (as is raising children) - you took a single statement about how I like to love & care for my children (which is part of motherhood) and turned it into a blanket statement that defines my role as a parent. I was addressing one aspect, not defining my entire role as a mother. Having children is incredibly fulfilling to me (despite the fact that you believe that it's not supposed to be), and while it's a difficult job, I wouldn't change it for the world. I am well aware of the fact that I'm raising adults, but we are all on this road together. It's not about my agenda and it's certainly not all about getting from point A (baby) to point B (adulthood). It's about everything in between. I enjoy raising my kids and I enjoy spending time with my family, which is constantly evolving.
If your mom raised you a certain way, that's fine, but please don't project your issues onto my family because that's not a fair. Clearly, I don't have perfect family, I am not a perfect parent, and my kids are not perfect. We do the best we can and like I've said before, I think that my husband and I are doing a pretty good job of raising decent human beings. There will always be those who judge no matter what you do.
No harm done - it's not personal.
Best to you as well...

 

[momhappy]

I hesitated before replying because posting in a parenting thread when you're not a parent is not a popular thing to do here. It doesn't seem well-received. I'm not a parent but I'm an elementary teacher, and I've seen a lot of what I would consider to be over parenting. Parents who do their kid's homework, not holding them accountable for things that should be the child's responsibility, and the list goes on.

I appreciate your response and I actually think that you probably see things from a unique perspective (because you are a non-parent, but still someone who has a considerable amount of experience with children & families)

 

[msop04]

The notion of a "helicopter parent" or "overparenting" is just rebranding of a phenomenom that developmental and attachment psychologists have been talking about for decades. Specifically, the problem of intrusive parenting.

Intrusive parenting is controlling parenting. All of the examples in your opening post, Gypsy, are examples of controlling and intrusive behavior. Of course, such behavior is usually perceived by the parent to be an attempt to "help" or protect the child from pain -- often pain the parent him or herself experienced as a child. If you watch a video of intrusive parenting in a controlled lab setting, you will see a parent who cannot help but interject to "help" a child do the most basic tasks. Even play! Children with intrusive parents learn to tune them out. They don't listen, because the parent is always trying to help and interject into their activities. Alternatively, kids of intrusive parents become very anxious about failure later in life, and scared to try new things for fear their parent might disapprove -- one of the inadvertent consequences of intrusive parenting is that it communicates and essential lack of trust in your child's abilities. Thus, such behavior undermines autonomy, competence, and can breed anxiety and other interpersonal issues later in life.

This is most likely a learned behavior, passed through generations. Intrusive parenting is also motivated by anxiety or other parent-centered needs. So the behavior is motivated by the parents' needs and not the true developmental needs of the child. That is generally a recipe for problems, as the key element to effective parenting is responding appropriately to the child's true needs for autonomy, relatedness, and comptenece - -the essential ingredients of well-being. Projecting our own needs onto our kids never ends well.

There have been a few interesting longitudinal studies looking at long term outcomes of intrusive parenting. One impressive study coded parental behavior during free play between mother and child for evidence of intrusiveness, and found that higher rates of intrusiveness predicted insecure attachment and unhealthy relationship behaviors (e.g., excessive anxiety) fully 22 years later.

I don't like the way the media handles this issue. I think it is just more fodder to criticize parents, particularly mothers. But this type of parenting is very common and ineffective in many ways. Intrusive parenting is simply a poor method of parenting, but it is not motivated by ill intent. Most people who act this way either do not have self-awareness concerning their actions or else they do not have the ability to control their intrusiveness due to poor self-regulatory abilities or anxiety. But, better ways of parenting can be learned if parents have access to the right resources, such as trained child psychologists.

I wish there were more resources available to parents, and less blanket criticism.

Thanks for such a great and informative explanation, Dreamer.

 

[monarch64]

I had to look up again last night what the appropriate age is for children to be able to eat things like whole grapes/nuts/hot dogs/hard candies. Here's a pretty good article: http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/choking.htm

When I was growing up, my mother volunteered for the Red Cross and taught B.A.T. (Basic Aid Training) to 4th graders in the school system. Sometimes we even had the Annie dummy at our house, which I thought was like the coolest thing ever. Learning AR/CPR/Heimlich were just part of my childhood. So to me, being possibly overly-cautious about what kids under 9-10 are eating isn't that big of a deal and I don't know that I would consider it overparenting or intrusive parenting to still be cutting up grapes. I don't think a child should be SCARED to certain foods, but should be educated on what foods are potential choking hazards. Snatching away a grape that a 9 year old has decided to help themselves to and making a scene about it in public is probably not a good approach, but teaching a child that some foods could result in choking in a calm manner, and, at an appropriate age, teaching them how to deal with it if it does happen, is probably the best choice. I guess what I'm saying is it should've been approached as a learning opportunity, not a public berating and shaming of the child.

Momhappy, I once microwaved a piece of foil accidentally when I was a kid. Can't remember how old I was, but I probably had not been shown or was not yet allowed to use the microwave on my own. Maybe I had been told, but I was a kid and kids forget stuff like that. Most parents I know make sure their children ask first before they help themselves to a snack, up til the teenage years, so I don't see what the problem is not letting your kids make their own meals when you're not there to supervise. Part of it is making sure they're following a balanced diet and eating at appropriate times. That can be a fine line to walk, but in the same respect parents are there to provide boundaries and guidelines. Most kids cookbooks instruct, "ask a parent for help" with even the simplest of tasks...

Zoe, I have no problem with people who don't have kids chiming in with their opinions. I used to give my opinions here before I had kids on related topics and no one seemed to mind, or at least they didn't say so. If someone has something to contribute to a discussion and offers their perspective, people can take it or leave it, no biggie.

Dreamer, great words. Intrusive, or controlling behavior seems like a much more fitting descriptor of what we're discussing here.

Kenny, am I wrong in remembering that you might have asked "Sam's" mother to hang out with you in the room or nearby while you were giving him lessons because you were trying to make sure everyone was comfortable with the situation? Maybe that's why she seems to be doing some hovering. ETA: Nope, I was wrong! You just said you requested the lessons to take place at their home, not yours. Never mind!

Conversation overheard while I was gardening this morning:
Boy, age 10: "But mom, you said J and I could play outside until he has to leave!"
Mom, taking morning walk around block (recovering from recent surgery): "Get your dirty clothes out of the bathroom, clean up your room and take the trash out, then you can play!"

Plenty of parents out there doin' it right!

 

[aljdewey]

Alternatively, kids of intrusive parents become very anxious about failure later in life, and scared to try new things for fear their parent might disapprove -- one of the inadvertent consequences of intrusive parenting is that it communicates an essential lack of trust in your child's abilities. Thus, such behavior undermines autonomy, competence, and can breed anxiety and other interpersonal issues later in life.

This bolded really hits the nail on the head and articulates exactly the unfortunate downstream effect I see right now, especially in younger co-workers.

For me, kids need the latitude to learn through trial and error how to do things for themselves; those experiences are how they develop self-confidence. How can they feel confident in their capabilities if it appears their parents don't trust in their capabilities?

One of my girlfriends describes the transition as moving from proverbial pilot to co-pilot - she's still there to help ensure the plane doesn't crash, but she feels strongly that they need to learn how to 'pilot' for themselves. She doesn't want the first time they pilot to be when there is no 'co-pilot'. I thought it was a great way to describe it.

 

[ericad]

My daughter is 9 and, reading this thread, I hope I'm not underparenting, lol! Personally, I can't relate to most of the helicopter examples at all, so I don't seem to be overparenting. I haven't cut her food for her since she was little - she knows how to use a knife and chew grapes. We don't really leave her home alone yet (started leaving her for very short stints just this year, 15 minutes to run to the corner store, etc., but nothing longer than that), so she doesn't ever eat alone, though that's a factor of her always having an adult around right now, not because we're scared she'll choke.

One area that we've been working on this year is to get her to remember things for herself. At 9, I shouldn't have to remind her to brush her teeth, for example. If I tell her to prepare her change of clothes on her own (she is heavy into sports), then I no longer double check, or talk her through a checklist to ensure she didn't forget anything. If she forgets (which she has done), then she has to go to her activity under-prepared, suffer the consequences (she ice skates, so if she forgets her jacket then she has to be cold and tough it out) and that is a lesson learned for next time. She's been struggling with this new level of responsibility, which tells me that it's the right time to push her on these things.

Hmmm, what else? I've been teaching her to prepare simple meals for herself, which don't require use of the stove. She knows how to reheat things in the microwave, and can use the stove for simple things, like scrambled eggs, with supervision. When I'm cooking, she helps by chopping veggies (with an actual kitchen knife! Grape-mom would freak) and preparing ingredients. This year I'm also teaching her to use the laundry machines. She's been folding her own laundry since she was 5, but I still help her put it away because it's faster. But making her do that herself is on my list of things to implement this year.

I have never done her schoolwork or projects for her - people do that?! I'm there to help give her guidance, help her collect materials, etc., but that's it. She does all the work herself.

Some of my limitations have to do with my paralyzing fear of child predators, so I confess I'm overprotective when it comes to her going to friends' houses, walking anywhere alone, etc. At school, I watch until she's safely inside (but I don't walk her in). For playdates, it's only with families we know quite well, otherwise she can have her friends over to our house instead. For sleepovers, she's only allowed over to stay at the homes of 2 families we know well, but that's it. I don't leave her alone at her sports activities, or anyplace else. Obviously I'll slack off on these things as she gets older, but I don't think she's big enough yet. I won't let her go to sleepaway camp (not that she wants to). This is the only area where I think I'm overprotective, but I try to be balanced everywhere else, lol.

Parenting is tricky - we all do the best we can. DD's best friend has parents who are much looser in their style. The other day, when I picked DD up from a playdate, I pulled into the driveway to see the girls LITERALLY running through the woods with open pocket knives, like something out of Lord of the Flies. When I asked them about it, her friend said "these are my whittling knives!" And yet somehow, they survived. Obviously I lectured them about the dangers of RUNNING with knives - the mom was inside the house and had no clue that the kids even had knives out. But I didn't tell them they can't have or use knives. Just don't run with the damn things, duh.

 

[ksinger]

My daughter is 9 and, reading this thread, I hope I'm not underparenting, lol! Personally, I can't relate to most of the helicopter examples at all, so I don't seem to be overparenting. I haven't cut her food for her since she was little - she knows how to use a knife and chew grapes. We don't really leave her home alone yet (started leaving her for very short stints just this year, 15 minutes to run to the corner store, etc., but nothing longer than that), so she doesn't ever eat alone, though that's a factor of her always having an adult around right now, not because we're scared she'll choke.

One area that we've been working on this year is to get her to remember things for herself. At 9, I shouldn't have to remind her to brush her teeth, for example. If I tell her to prepare her change of clothes on her own (she is heavy into sports), then I no longer double check, or talk her through a checklist to ensure she didn't forget anything. If she forgets (which she has done), then she has to go to her activity under-prepared, suffer the consequences (she ice skates, so if she forgets her jacket then she has to be cold and tough it out) and that is a lesson learned for next time. She's been struggling with this new level of responsibility, which tells me that it's the right time to push her on these things.

Hmmm, what else? I've been teaching her to prepare simple meals for herself, which don't require use of the stove. She knows how to reheat things in the microwave, and can use the stove for simple things, like scrambled eggs, with supervision. When I'm cooking, she helps by chopping veggies (with an actual kitchen knife! Grape-mom would freak) and preparing ingredients. This year I'm also teaching her to use the laundry machines. She's been folding her own laundry since she was 5, but I still help her put it away because it's faster. But making her do that herself is on my list of things to implement this year.

I have never done her schoolwork or projects for her - people do that?! I'm there to help give her guidance, help her collect materials, etc., but that's it. She does all the work herself.

Some of my limitations have to do with my paralyzing fear of child predators, so I confess I'm overprotective when it comes to her going to friends' houses, walking anywhere alone, etc. At school, I watch until she's safely inside (but I don't walk her in). For playdates, it's only with families we know quite well, otherwise she can have her friends over to our house instead. For sleepovers, she's only allowed over to stay at the homes of 2 families we know well, but that's it. I don't leave her alone at her sports activities, or anyplace else. Obviously I'll slack off on these things as she gets older, but I don't think she's big enough yet. I won't let her go to sleepaway camp (not that she wants to). This is the only area where I think I'm overprotective, but I try to be balanced everywhere else, lol.

Parenting is tricky - we all do the best we can. DD's best friend has parents who are much looser in their style. The other day, when I picked DD up from a playdate, I pulled into the driveway to see the girls LITERALLY running through the woods with open pocket knives, like something out of Lord of the Flies. When I asked them about it, her friend said "these are my whittling knives!" And yet somehow, they survived. Obviously I lectured them about the dangers of RUNNING with knives - the mom was inside the house and had no clue that the kids even had knives out. But I didn't tell them they can't have or use knives. Just don't run with the damn things, duh.

Erica, reading your bit about the knives made me remember this article. I think it apropos for this thread.

I like your philosophy BTW - it reminds me some of my mother, who also did not hover (at least not that I remember!) and allowed me
lots of un-micromanaged, non-surveilled time. And I remember ironing pillowcases (Mom showed me how) earlier than 9 even. Grape-cutting mom would be having a spasm about that too, no doubt!

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/03/hey-parents-leave-those-kids-alone/358631/

 

[partgypsy]

Are you an overparenter? A helicopter parent? Are the opposite? How do you know if you've struck the right balance?

I'm an exhausted parent.

I've never, ever seen anything like the scene you've described with the mother and the grape.
TBH I couldn't imagine it ever occurring in my social scene.
It would be something I would see in a glossy comedy film poking fun at suburbia.

What can I say? Perhaps some women (perhaps those who never felt accomplished in other fields? Perhaps high-achievers that want to excell in all facets of life?) turn mothering into a career.
But the pay is not good enough for me to bother. I would never cut up a grape.

I feel the same way. I work full time. when I get home of course I talk to my kids but I also have other stuff to do. If anything we lean to a bit neglectful side. I rely on my husband (who is home during the day and works part time) to do a lot of the primary parent responsibilities of going through the children's school folder, remembering meetings, scheduling appointments, but oftentimes he forgets and things fall between the cracks. Both of my little brother's kids for a long period of time were latch key kids. One is graduated college and has a good job, the other has good grades and plays the cello. I would like to be more hands on (not in the way described above, but just in spending time) but the bills need to be paid. They have all the basics they need, plus a little more (and our love).

 

[Tourmaline]

Wow, this is a perfect topic for me right now. I am struggling with a particular aspect of parenting. I was an only child and my parents did everything for me BUT also treated me as if every notion I had was a good one. My impulses were followed. It left me confident and feeling as if I deserve a good life, but somewhat irresponsible in terms of choices and logistics. I grew up surrounded by love, but without boundaries on my behavior. I just happened to be a good kid who didn't misbehave. I happened to do well in school. My parents supported and encouraged my activities, but did too much for me and took care of responsibilities (like homework if I was too tired because they had kept me out too late). Growing up without a real sense of responsibility, even though I felt loved, led to some really stupid choices -- mostly in the relationship sector -- as a young adult. I have a major regret about a relationship I entered into when I was 17, and it's possible that I have taken the responsibility and boundaries thing too far as a parent. Also, my mom took care of every detail of logistics for me much longer than she should have. She had good intentions, but she deprived me of my right to be an adult. My husband helped me to draw boundaries with my mom, and I think I became a true adult at about 30. Before that, I let my mom come over and do my dishes and laundry, and I thought I couldn't handle paperwork without her doing it for me. I was thrilled, at 30, to learn that I was actually competent at things other than grades, crafts and music. I am 37 now.

My husband and I have four children: 10yo girl and 7yo, 4yo and 2yo boys. I give my kids boundaries (I expect them to behave well, do their homework, clean up after themselves -- though the 2yo isn't doing that yet -- be kind to each other unless there's a reason to be otherwise, conduct themselves responsibly), and I don't overindulge their negative moods or whims. My kids are the ones that other parents say must be "easy" children. They say they would have had more kids if theirs were like mine. But you know what? My kids are good because I expected it of them, and I didn't let them get away with crappy behavior. My daughter can use the microwave, and she prepares foods (chicken pot pies, sandwiches, etc.) for her brothers. I think I'm doing a pretty darn good job creating decent people. BUT...in my effort to be so different from my own parents and instill responsibility in my kids, my husband thinks I am not warm enough. Our daughter, the 10yo, gets moody sometimes lately (I think it must be hormones), and she'll start to mope about some stupid thing, and I don't coddle her. I assess the situation. If I think it's a valid thing to be upset about, I will empathize. If not, I'll tell her to snap out of it. My husband, on the other hand, will decided that, though it seems she is upset about some stupid little thing, there must be something intense and deep at its core, and he'll squirrel her away and counsel her, making her believe she's upset for some deep dynamic that she hadn't even noticed, and he'll lecture me about being cold and dismissive. While I think he hovers too much and makes me out to be a bad parent in front of the kids, he does have a point. I need to find a balance between instilling responsibility and letting them feel unconditional love. Parenting, like life, is a work in progress.

I do judge other parents when they let their kids behave badly. Sometimes it seems that the kid is the driver and the parents are the passengers. It is harder to make friends as a married adult with children, because so many things have to align perfectly. Sigh.

ETA: I cut up steak for the little boys, but the kids can handle eating without killing themselves. At least, they have so far.

 

[partgypsy]

As far as your oldest, to me there is no such thing as an unjustified emotion. Emotions are emotions, they are not rational. So when my child is having a hard time, I just try to be there for them and be receptive and nonjudgemental. They are often not asking for advice or validation, just want someone to listen. It is a GOOD thing to be empathetic. There may be times during a crisis or unsafe situation when you will really want your child to come to you; Don't set up a dynamic that makes them hesitant to confide in you.
There is such things as acceptable and unacceptable behavior and the more clear and consistent parents are about that the better.

I'm definitely not a perfect parent, but I remember times as a teen feeling terrible. Whether my feelings were justified or overblown or whatever, I would have felt even worse if someone especially my parent told me to "snap out of it" without even listening to how I felt.

 

[Tourmaline]

I talked to her for about 10 minutes and reassured her that, though the duct tape purse she'd made had come undone (and she had stuck it back together), it didn't mean that she wasn't good at anything (which is the conclusion she had drawn, which was beyond absurd, because she does well at pretty much anything she touches and is celebrated for it, both by us and by her teachers and peers). After that, she she was still moping (and was harboring resentment toward her 7yo brother because his duct tape thing had come apart only once and hers had come apart twice), I told her to get over it. And then my husband came in from doing errands and spent the next six hours counseling her as if she were a broken mental patient, which she is not. At times when she has had emotions that I felt were connected to something more true, I have been the one to spend time with her and help her figure out what to do about it. When she was 2 years old, she used to cry hysterically if her cookie broke before she finished eating it. It's something I think she STILL needs to work on, because if she lets herself get all bent out of shape over every little nothing, she won't be a happy person. My husband, on the other hand, totally reinforces her when she gets upset over nothing, which I think is a mistake. I do need to work on being warmer, but I don't think it serves her to validate these things.

ETA: She told me today that she was just in a bad mood at that moment yesterday, and that the theory my husband came up with was not correct. We could have avoided a big issue if he had come home about 10 minutes later than he did.

 

[momhappy]

My daughter is 9 and, reading this thread, I hope I'm not underparenting, lol! Personally, I can't relate to most of the helicopter examples at all, so I don't seem to be overparenting. I haven't cut her food for her since she was little - she knows how to use a knife and chew grapes. We don't really leave her home alone yet (started leaving her for very short stints just this year, 15 minutes to run to the corner store, etc., but nothing longer than that), so she doesn't ever eat alone, though that's a factor of her always having an adult around right now, not because we're scared she'll choke.

One area that we've been working on this year is to get her to remember things for herself. At 9, I shouldn't have to remind her to brush her teeth, for example. If I tell her to prepare her change of clothes on her own (she is heavy into sports), then I no longer double check, or talk her through a checklist to ensure she didn't forget anything. If she forgets (which she has done), then she has to go to her activity under-prepared, suffer the consequences (she ice skates, so if she forgets her jacket then she has to be cold and tough it out) and that is a lesson learned for next time. She's been struggling with this new level of responsibility, which tells me that it's the right time to push her on these things.

Hmmm, what else? I've been teaching her to prepare simple meals for herself, which don't require use of the stove. She knows how to reheat things in the microwave, and can use the stove for simple things, like scrambled eggs, with supervision. When I'm cooking, she helps by chopping veggies (with an actual kitchen knife! Grape-mom would freak) and preparing ingredients. This year I'm also teaching her to use the laundry machines. She's been folding her own laundry since she was 5, but I still help her put it away because it's faster. But making her do that herself is on my list of things to implement this year.

I have never done her schoolwork or projects for her - people do that?! I'm there to help give her guidance, help her collect materials, etc., but that's it. She does all the work herself.

Some of my limitations have to do with my paralyzing fear of child predators, so I confess I'm overprotective when it comes to her going to friends' houses, walking anywhere alone, etc. At school, I watch until she's safely inside (but I don't walk her in). For playdates, it's only with families we know quite well, otherwise she can have her friends over to our house instead. For sleepovers, she's only allowed over to stay at the homes of 2 families we know well, but that's it. I don't leave her alone at her sports activities, or anyplace else. Obviously I'll slack off on these things as she gets older, but I don't think she's big enough yet. I won't let her go to sleepaway camp (not that she wants to). This is the only area where I think I'm overprotective, but I try to be balanced everywhere else, lol.

Parenting is tricky - we all do the best we can. DD's best friend has parents who are much looser in their style. The other day, when I picked DD up from a playdate, I pulled into the driveway to see the girls LITERALLY running through the woods with open pocket knives, like something out of Lord of the Flies. When I asked them about it, her friend said "these are my whittling knives!" And yet somehow, they survived. Obviously I lectured them about the dangers of RUNNING with knives - the mom was inside the house and had no clue that the kids even had knives out. But I didn't tell them they can't have or use knives. Just don't run with the damn things, duh.

After reading your post, I'm starting to wonder if maybe I'm not as much of an over-parenter as I thought I was. My children (around the age of yours) aren't really left home alone yet either (except when I walk the dogs down the street) - I suspect that the length of alone time will increase slowly. I don't cut up their food or do their homework. I, too, am careful about play dates, etc. and we've only had 1 sleepover thus far with the slightly older neighbor girl (she slept over at our house). We haven't done sleep away camp yet either.
I like that you have taught her things like laundry - laundry is my biggest challenge around the house and there's no reason why the can't help me out on that one.

 

[packrat]

We are pretty loosey goosey here. We have issues w/potential predator situations. It doesn't help much now that JD has been involved w/law enforcement for five years now, so we know more of the people in our community, and know what people are capable of, and the limitations of available help. We talk to the kids about things.

My cousin has a daughter who was put in "alternative" high school b/c she refused to go to regular hs or do homework etc. So she barely had to do anything, other than show up a couple hours a day. This was too much for her. She left all her assignments until the very end of the year, so in order to graduate, she had to turn them in. So my cousin did *everything* for her, while her daughter sat around and got high and drunk. She said to me "Well, what am I supposed to do? Not let her graduate?" Um. Yeah. That.

 

[ericad]

My daughter is 9 and, reading this thread, I hope I'm not underparenting, lol! Personally, I can't relate to most of the helicopter examples at all, so I don't seem to be overparenting. I haven't cut her food for her since she was little - she knows how to use a knife and chew grapes. We don't really leave her home alone yet (started leaving her for very short stints just this year, 15 minutes to run to the corner store, etc., but nothing longer than that), so she doesn't ever eat alone, though that's a factor of her always having an adult around right now, not because we're scared she'll choke.

One area that we've been working on this year is to get her to remember things for herself. At 9, I shouldn't have to remind her to brush her teeth, for example. If I tell her to prepare her change of clothes on her own (she is heavy into sports), then I no longer double check, or talk her through a checklist to ensure she didn't forget anything. If she forgets (which she has done), then she has to go to her activity under-prepared, suffer the consequences (she ice skates, so if she forgets her jacket then she has to be cold and tough it out) and that is a lesson learned for next time. She's been struggling with this new level of responsibility, which tells me that it's the right time to push her on these things.

Hmmm, what else? I've been teaching her to prepare simple meals for herself, which don't require use of the stove. She knows how to reheat things in the microwave, and can use the stove for simple things, like scrambled eggs, with supervision. When I'm cooking, she helps by chopping veggies (with an actual kitchen knife! Grape-mom would freak) and preparing ingredients. This year I'm also teaching her to use the laundry machines. She's been folding her own laundry since she was 5, but I still help her put it away because it's faster. But making her do that herself is on my list of things to implement this year.

I have never done her schoolwork or projects for her - people do that?! I'm there to help give her guidance, help her collect materials, etc., but that's it. She does all the work herself.

Some of my limitations have to do with my paralyzing fear of child predators, so I confess I'm overprotective when it comes to her going to friends' houses, walking anywhere alone, etc. At school, I watch until she's safely inside (but I don't walk her in). For playdates, it's only with families we know quite well, otherwise she can have her friends over to our house instead. For sleepovers, she's only allowed over to stay at the homes of 2 families we know well, but that's it. I don't leave her alone at her sports activities, or anyplace else. Obviously I'll slack off on these things as she gets older, but I don't think she's big enough yet. I won't let her go to sleepaway camp (not that she wants to). This is the only area where I think I'm overprotective, but I try to be balanced everywhere else, lol.

Parenting is tricky - we all do the best we can. DD's best friend has parents who are much looser in their style. The other day, when I picked DD up from a playdate, I pulled into the driveway to see the girls LITERALLY running through the woods with open pocket knives, like something out of Lord of the Flies. When I asked them about it, her friend said "these are my whittling knives!" And yet somehow, they survived. Obviously I lectured them about the dangers of RUNNING with knives - the mom was inside the house and had no clue that the kids even had knives out. But I didn't tell them they can't have or use knives. Just don't run with the damn things, duh.

After reading your post, I'm starting to wonder if maybe I'm not as much of an over-parenter as I thought I was. My children (around the age of yours) aren't really left home alone yet either (except when I walk the dogs down the street) - I suspect that the length of alone time will increase slowly. I don't cut up their food or do their homework. I, too, am careful about play dates, etc. and we've only had 1 sleepover thus far with the slightly older neighbor girl (she slept over at our house). We haven't done sleep away camp yet either.
I like that you have taught her things like laundry - laundry is my biggest challenge around the house and there's no reason why the can't help me out on that one.

Regarding laundry, momhappy, get a box of detergent pods. My daughter can't reach the dispenser in our front loader (it's on a pedestal) nor can she handle the heavy Costco bottle of liquid detergent, but the pods are in a bin on the counter and she can easily toss one in, no measuring or dispensing required. Then all she has to do is load up the washer, and I've taught her, for now, to simply set the dial on the "normal" cycle with cold water. The rest is easy - transferring to the dryer, folding and putting away. Well, we're still working on that part, lol.

When I was her age, I was already cleaning my own bathroom, vacuuming the house and loading/unloading the dishwasher! My DD isn't doing any of these things yet, but dishes are next on my list after laundry.

I can't imagine that I dragged a vacuum up and down the stairs at that age, but I did!

 

[ericad]

I have a friend who's daughter is 14. She realized that the kid will be starting high school in the fall and can't boil water or use the washer. At 14! I know that the years from now until my DD is 14 will fly by too, so now's the time to teach her these skills so that, by the time she's in high school, she can be working on more complicated life skills.

Another friend of mine also has a 13 year old, and in their house, the teen has to cook dinner for the family once a week during the school year, and twice a week in summer. As a result she's learned a lot of great skills that will serve her well when she goes off to college: planning, shopping, thinking about nutrition, time management, and just plain being able to throw together all kinds of home cooked meals. I think it's a great idea and her mom has been very impressed with the meals she's learned to prepare. In fact, last Christmas, the biggest thing on her wish list was a bread machine, lol. Now they all get to enjoy fresh bread!

 

[Sky56]

I had good parents but there was one major flaw in my upbringing - My mother scheduled just about every minute of my time, and I had very little time to just do nothing and relax...and this included the summer, too. Dance and art lessons, religious education, summer camp in addition to the usual school activities and homework.

It affected me adversely to the point that I feel tremendously unhappy unless I have plenty of do-nothing, relaxing times and time alone. It's like I am making up for all that free time I craved as a kid but never got. The parenting tactic backfired - the point was to make me very social and successful, and devoted to their religion too...and I ended up being reclusive, not very social with only a few close friends, and shying away from my parents' religious beliefs.

If you want to have your kids adopt your beliefs and values, don't ram them down their throats. It's stupid - of course the kid will rebel against it. I'm living proof. ...Free advice from Sky who is ~not~ a parent.

 

[zoebartlett]

I hesitated before replying because posting in a parenting thread when you're not a parent is not a popular thing to do here. It doesn't seem well-received. I'm not a parent but I'm an elementary teacher, and I've seen a lot of what I would consider to be over parenting. Parents who do their kid's homework, not holding them accountable for things that should be the child's responsibility, and the list goes on.

I appreciate your response and I actually think that you probably see things from a unique perspective (because you are a non-parent, but still someone who has a considerable amount of experience with children & families)

Thanks, momhappy. I wish I could mention a few specific examples of the over parenting I've seen over the years but I think I'll refrain, due to confidentiality.

I do believe kids should be allowed to make mistakes, learn from them, and deal with the consequences. If parents always swoop in and take care of things in order to shelter their child from consequences of their actions, I don't think that's doing the child any favors in the long run.

ETA: Thanks, Monnie. I guess I thought it would be like a, "if you don't have kids, you wouldn't understand" type of thing. Maybe, maybe not, but I do still have opinions... By the way, this isn't directed towards any particular thread or person, but I do know it's something I've noticed in the past.

 

[zoebartlett]

My friend's mom did my friend's laundry all through college because she was afraid my friend would ruin her clothes. What did she think my friend had been doing with her dirty clothes while at school? I always scratched my head at that one.