Overparenting.

[anne_h]

I do not overparent. By most people's standards of today, I probably underparent.

I once heard that parenting is not about raising kids. It's about raising adults. Which I totally agree with, and pretty much sums up my approach.

My husband is a bit more helicoptery. And I love to remind him that the only time one of our kids got injured (not seriously) was on his watch. LOL

Anne

 

[TooPatient]

I'm pretty sure we aren't overparenting. We strive for a balance between A's safety and teaching her to be independent. She is learning to set up times to get together with friends, plan activities, manage a budget (on mini scale with her $20/month for now), etc. We want to teach her skills so that she has the confidence and ability to manage her own life when the time comes. We're hoping that increasing responsibility a bit at a time will keep her from massive shock when she moves out on her own.

Oh!
And tomorrow, she'll be paragliding off a cliff!
(I did research first and it is super safe. We're not THAT open to crazy stuff )


I've got to say, it is very difficult finding a balance. There is so much that she has to learn and do and choose between that could potentially harm her physically or mentally or future potential. We want her to be as safe and successful as possible but we know that she needs the skills to make sure that she knows how to make the right choices for her entire life. Practicing now when the consequences are (mostly) smaller is will (hopefully) mean she has an easier time later.


("A" will be 15 next month)

 

[chemgirl]

Not a parent, but I do see the effects of over parenting at work.

Specifically the office assistant's 20 year old daughter. This girl is hopeless and her parents are to blame. The dog vomits and she calls her mom at work to come and clean it up, and mom goes! Mom makes all of her appointments, even asked me what birth control I thought her daughter should be using. At 20 I looked that stuff up on my own and made my own appointment, I didn't want my mom handling my birth control!

Recently daughter flew to a conference. Mom tried to get her unaccompanied minor ststus. Seriously. Then daughter couldn't find her shuttle so she called her mom to get the info. Mom had no idea and daughter sat crying for 6 hours until a conference official came to get her. I could hear it all from my office and I suggested she go to terminal 2 (O'Hair, I go through that airport monthly for work) because that's where you pick up ground transportation. Office assistant didn't want her daughter alone on the tram, wanted security to accompany her, they wouldn't, so daughter sat crying in terminal 5. Hurts my head.

Daughter also worked with us for 2 weeks and was fired because she couldn't be left alone. Was great during training, but fell apart without somebody telling her exactly what to do.

Office assistant says she will do anything for her kid, but in the end the kid can't do anything for herself.

Eta: I have asked if she can come in early to help prepare for major meetings and she can't because she has to straighten daughter's hair in the morning. Doesn't want daughter using a straightener because she might burn herself. Management is tired of it and it has caused her to be passed up for promotion several times.

 

[Gypsy]

WHOA chemgirl. That's just sad. WOW.

Just terrible.

 

[chrono]

I've never seen such extreme cases of over-parenting in person.

 

[MMtwo]

I have kept looking at this thread, not even sure if I should respond, but it's a daily struggle.

My son has an autistic spectrum disorder - aka Aspergers. Started school at 2 1/2 because of delays. He is now 22 and has a full ride to a big college, but taking a couple of semesters off for mental health reasons. he's brilliant on par with few people intellectually- but he asked me the other day if he could put tinfoil in the microwave. He is deathly afraid of moths (he is 6'5...watching him in a moth battle for his life is quite something). He is the most wonderful unique man and I am so lucky to be his mom. After some issues in school, they decided to test him. He had carried a 3.8 through the first 2 years in school and graduated Magna cum lade at the junior college. In his 3rd year, he went to a bigger school on scholarship and navigating red tape and unclear paths became the norm. He hit the wall. He was just tested for IQ and he is in the 99.9th percentile reasoning/intelligence (IQ in the 140's) but in the 5th percentile processing speed. The final report from the psychiatrist was basically a head scratching affair where the psychiatrist admitted this is so rare he doesn't know how to quantify.

Also, i have a daughter, 20 who is likewise very smart and I am comfortable in her ability to navigate life and situations. I was on my own at 18, had a job and a crappy apartment/room with almost nothing in it and took care of myself completely. I don't "hover" over her, she comes and goes.

Anyhow, I would probably qualify as a helicopter parent for my son. I try to just "let go" but he doesn't put things together in the same way that you and I would, and I end up coming behind him to fix things (sometimes costly) because he is sort of lost. Brilliant but wearing a backwards shirt. Memorized all the presidents in order at age seven and then memorized their number and played a game where I would call out the president's number and he would answer the name. He learned them off of a placemat. This brilliant kid works at a slow pace...I wish I had answers.

He has always been a couple of years behind socially, so I am hoping he will continue to get stronger and mature. I do struggle though, as I am never sure how much to give him and how much to let him fail. He struggles with depression and sometimes I wonder if my hovering has contributed to his pain. I wish I knew what to do, but there is no clearcut path because he is so unusual. No one has answers when I ask.

Anyhow, anyone who didn't know us would think I am one of those moms, but I worry if I let go he will fall through a crack.Most kids can get a job doing about anything, but not him. His slower type of brilliance will need a special job. He is studying accounting, but not sure how that will work. he has an almost photographic memory. I need to help him find a niche is this mad world. I just REALLY pray and hope he will continue to gain processing speed.

So yup, I am a helicopter mom and will be until my son can better handle things. I wish I weren't and he didn't need me so much sometimes.

 

[zoebartlett]

Moneymeiser, I think there's an understanding that some children, no matter what age, need extra support if they face specific academic, behavioral, or health-related challenges. I wouldn't consider that to fall into the category of over parenting.

 

[AGBF]

moneymeister-I'm in the same boat you are, only I do not have one "normal" child the way you do. I do not have a child on the autism spectrum, but I have a 21 year-old daughter who is bi-polar. She has also picked up some other diagnoses along the the way. I am positive that she has OCD because a more obsessive person does not exist. (Well, yes, some do. I know they do. But those are the people who cannot get out of their homes because they cannot stop checking to see if the stove is turned off or if the door is actually closed. My daughter is one or two steps beyond that.) Some psychiatrists have also said that my daughter has a co-morbidity of borderline personality disorder (BPD).

At any rate, I intervene a lot in her life to stop the worst excesses from happening when I can.

Before I saw your posting I was just going to post in this thread that that parents, like me, who are active in their older children's or adult children's lives can still allow the child to become independent when the child is ready. It may just happen later in life. As my daughter's psychiatrist said, only the actuaries for insurance companies truly understand this: insurance rates change at age 26 because the brain matures then. Although I have seen significant progress, he assures me that there is more to come since my daughter's brain has more maturing to do.

In the past few weeks she, for the first time, went into three doctors' appointments without me: the gynecologist (yesterday); the ophthalmologist earlier in the week; and the dermatologist last week. I pointed this out to her in the car after her GYN appointment yesterday. She is, slowly, becoming more independent. Just because people "overparent" by your standards doesn't mean they will never let go. Maybe they sense that their children need support for longer than you think that they do.

I don't think that your telling me, "but your daughter is bi-polar" is helpful. Some parents whom you perceive as over-protective may know things about their own children that you do not. Maybe they really are just infantilizing children who could do more. Or maybe they know their own children better than outsiders do.

Deb/AGBF

 

[MMtwo]

Dreamer, that was a great post on the problem.

Zoe, while I agree my son has special needs and this is not the point of the thread, I worry that I will either not take the training wheels off when he doesn't need them, causing over dependance OR I will try to push him to independence in areas he is not capable/ready to handle, pushing him into feelings of incompetence and failure. Either way it's a parenting mistake. This is a different angle of looking at the problem.

This is the same issue with a helicopter parent, they don't know how or when to let go. Maybe there should be more books and articles on healthy boundaries, fostering independence...I don't know. How would one learn to NOT be a helicopter parent?

 

[Tourmaline]

Hugs, Deb and moneymeister. <3

 

[MMtwo]

AGBF - Deb-
Thank you for your post and sharing about your daughter. It's great she is learning to take steps and become independent. Those diagnoses are very challenging. How wonderful that time will continue to help your daughter. The information about the brain maturing until 26 gives me renewed hope - I had no idea!.

Sending a cyber hug of support for you. It's hard enough to live for oneself but to keep vigilant for a special needs child in adulthood can be exhausting. It takes great love and fierce determination Wishing you the best!

 

[momhappy]

I have kept looking at this thread, not even sure if I should respond, but it's a daily struggle.

My son has an autistic spectrum disorder - aka Aspergers. Started school at 2 1/2 because of delays. He is now 22 and has a full ride to a big college, but taking a couple of semesters off for mental health reasons. he's brilliant on par with few people intellectually- but he asked me the other day if he could put tinfoil in the microwave. He is deathly afraid of moths (he is 6'5...watching him in a moth battle for his life is quite something). He is the most wonderful unique man and I am so lucky to be his mom. After some issues in school, they decided to test him. He had carried a 3.8 through the first 2 years in school and graduated Magna cum lade at the junior college. In his 3rd year, he went to a bigger school on scholarship and navigating red tape and unclear paths became the norm. He hit the wall. He was just tested for IQ and he is in the 99.9th percentile reasoning/intelligence (IQ in the 140's) but in the 5th percentile processing speed. The final report from the psychiatrist was basically a head scratching affair where the psychiatrist admitted this is so rare he doesn't know how to quantify.

Also, i have a daughter, 20 who is likewise very smart and I am comfortable in her ability to navigate life and situations. I was on my own at 18, had a job and a crappy apartment/room with almost nothing in it and took care of myself completely. I don't "hover" over her, she comes and goes.

Anyhow, I would probably qualify as a helicopter parent for my son. I try to just "let go" but he doesn't put things together in the same way that you and I would, and I end up coming behind him to fix things (sometimes costly) because he is sort of lost. Brilliant but wearing a backwards shirt. Memorized all the presidents in order at age seven and then memorized their number and played a game where I would call out the president's number and he would answer the name. He learned them off of a placemat. This brilliant kid works at a slow pace...I wish I had answers.

He has always been a couple of years behind socially, so I am hoping he will continue to get stronger and mature. I do struggle though, as I am never sure how much to give him and how much to let him fail. He struggles with depression and sometimes I wonder if my hovering has contributed to his pain. I wish I knew what to do, but there is no clearcut path because he is so unusual. No one has answers when I ask.

Anyhow, anyone who didn't know us would think I am one of those moms, but I worry if I let go he will fall through a crack.Most kids can get a job doing about anything, but not him. His slower type of brilliance will need a special job. He is studying accounting, but not sure how that will work. he has an almost photographic memory. I need to help him find a niche is this mad world. I just REALLY pray and hope he will continue to gain processing speed.

So yup, I am a helicopter mom and will be until my son can better handle things. I wish I weren't and he didn't need me so much sometimes.

I don't want to go into specifics, but I can relate to your story on a personal level. What you have posted helps to explain my parenting style as well.
I wish your family the best

 

[zoebartlett]

Dreamer, that was a great post on the problem.

Zoe, while I agree my son has special needs and this is not the point of the thread, I worry that I will either not take the training wheels off when he doesn't need them, causing over dependance OR I will try to push him to independence in areas he is not capable/ready to handle, pushing him into feelings of incompetence and failure. Either way it's a parenting mistake. This is a different angle of looking at the problem.

This is the same issue with a helicopter parent, they don't know how or when to let go. Maybe there should be more books and articles on healthy boundaries, fostering independence...I don't know. How would one learn to NOT be a helicopter parent?

Oh, I didn't mean to say that your first post was off-point. That's not how I meant it. It sounds like you're encouraging your son to be independent in some ways, while still guiding him in others. I can imagine that it must be a hard balance.

 

[missy]

Hugs, Deb and moneymeister. <3

(((Hugs))) to Deb and moneymeister from me too. It is challenging raising children even when everything goes right but when you add other factors to the mix it is an even bigger challenge (and reward). It sounds like you lovely ladies are balancing it all out just perfectly for your families.

That's why I never judge people. Until you walk a mile in their shoes you just cannot understand the full extent to what they experience on a daily basis.
What might be over-parenting for some children might be quite right (or even under parenting) for another.

I posted this before but my good friend whose boys are older now would never let them eat when they were alone in the house when they were younger. Now that's over because one just finished freshman year of college (went away to school) and one is in his junior year of high school. The reason she never let them eat while they were alone in the house when they were younger was the fear they would choke.

She never had a previous traumatic experience causing her to make this rule when they were younger and she is the furthest thing from an over-parenter. Her boys are independent young men and have been so for a long while. Just with certain things she was more protective than perhaps others might be. It worked fine for her family and did not hurt her boys in any way. In fact I cannot think of more independent young men at their age than these 2.

 

[Aoife]

Not a parent, but I do see the effects of over parenting at work.

Specifically the office assistant's 20 year old daughter. This girl is hopeless and her parents are to blame. The dog vomits and she calls her mom at work to come and clean it up, and mom goes! Mom makes all of her appointments, even asked me what birth control I thought her daughter should be using. At 20 I looked that stuff up on my own and made my own appointment, I didn't want my mom handling my birth control!

Recently daughter flew to a conference. Mom tried to get her unaccompanied minor ststus. Seriously. Then daughter couldn't find her shuttle so she called her mom to get the info. Mom had no idea and daughter sat crying for 6 hours until a conference official came to get her. I could hear it all from my office and I suggested she go to terminal 2 (O'Hair, I go through that airport monthly for work) because that's where you pick up ground transportation. Office assistant didn't want her daughter alone on the tram, wanted security to accompany her, they wouldn't, so daughter sat crying in terminal 5. Hurts my head.

Daughter also worked with us for 2 weeks and was fired because she couldn't be left alone. Was great during training, but fell apart without somebody telling her exactly what to do.

Office assistant says she will do anything for her kid, but in the end the kid can't do anything for herself.

Eta: I have asked if she can come in early to help prepare for major meetings and she can't because she has to straighten daughter's hair in the morning. Doesn't want daughter using a straightener because she might burn herself. Management is tired of it and it has caused her to be passed up for promotion several times.

I'm honestly not sure this could be called over parenting, since it's such an extreme example that I suspect there is something else going on with the daughter either diagnosed or undiagnosed. Maybe the relationship is super dysfunctional, or maybe the mother doing all this stuff for the daughter is the thing that allows the daughter to live a more or less functional life. You could argue that it's not sustainable or healthy as a long-term relationship and I'd agree, but you never know what's really going on.

It's easy to pass judgment on other people's parenting, but no matter how well you think you know the family, you may or may not know everything medically or psychologically that is going on. In my previous post I mentioned that our daughters are 28 and 30 respectively, and our friend groups have children in the 25-35 year old range, so over the years we have seen a lot of kids grow up (and in a lot of cases, have kids of their own.) Within our immediate family, friends' families, and our extended families, we've seen diagnoses of autism, GAD, depression, bipolar, ADHD, BPD and OCD. We've seen "good" kids from "good" families use drugs, develop eating disorders, become functional and dysfunctional alcoholics, have premarital pregnancies, move away from home, move back home, lose jobs, be hospitalized for psychotic breaks, come out as gay or bisexual, and on and on. And the thing is that in all of those cases, especially from an outsiders perspective, it would have been very easy to make assumptions about the quality of parenting: the parents were over-involved, they were too lenient, they were somehow Doing It Wrong. And they weren't. They were just doing the best they could, and in many cases facing a lot of criticism for it.

I do think that there are highly dysfunctional parent-child relationships, and that there are lots of ways that family dynamics can be unhealthy. On the other hand, when I see some of the extreme examples of what we're currently calling "over-parenting," such as the ones that have been cited in this thread, I always wonder what else is going on in the family, and why exactly the parents seem to feel the need to do some of those things.

 

[chemgirl]

Not a parent, but I do see the effects of over parenting at work.

Specifically the office assistant's 20 year old daughter. This girl is hopeless and her parents are to blame. The dog vomits and she calls her mom at work to come and clean it up, and mom goes! Mom makes all of her appointments, even asked me what birth control I thought her daughter should be using. At 20 I looked that stuff up on my own and made my own appointment, I didn't want my mom handling my birth control!

Recently daughter flew to a conference. Mom tried to get her unaccompanied minor ststus. Seriously. Then daughter couldn't find her shuttle so she called her mom to get the info. Mom had no idea and daughter sat crying for 6 hours until a conference official came to get her. I could hear it all from my office and I suggested she go to terminal 2 (O'Hair, I go through that airport monthly for work) because that's where you pick up ground transportation. Office assistant didn't want her daughter alone on the tram, wanted security to accompany her, they wouldn't, so daughter sat crying in terminal 5. Hurts my head.

Daughter also worked with us for 2 weeks and was fired because she couldn't be left alone. Was great during training, but fell apart without somebody telling her exactly what to do.

Office assistant says she will do anything for her kid, but in the end the kid can't do anything for herself.

Eta: I have asked if she can come in early to help prepare for major meetings and she can't because she has to straighten daughter's hair in the morning. Doesn't want daughter using a straightener because she might burn herself. Management is tired of it and it has caused her to be passed up for promotion several times.

I'm honestly not sure this could be called over parenting, since it's such an extreme example that I suspect there is something else going on with the daughter either diagnosed or undiagnosed. Maybe the relationship is super dysfunctional, or maybe the mother doing all this stuff for the daughter is the thing that allows the daughter to live a more or less functional life. You could argue that it's not sustainable or healthy as a long-term relationship and I'd agree, but you never know what's really going on.

It's easy to pass judgment on other people's parenting, but no matter how well you think you know the family, you may or may not know everything medically or psychologically that is going on. In my previous post I mentioned that our daughters are 28 and 30 respectively, and our friend groups have children in the 25-35 year old range, so over the years we have seen a lot of kids grow up (and in a lot of cases, have kids of their own.) Within our immediate family, friends' families, and our extended families, we've seen diagnoses of autism, GAD, depression, bipolar, ADHD, BPD and OCD. We've seen "good" kids from "good" families use drugs, develop eating disorders, become functional and dysfunctional alcoholics, have premarital pregnancies, move away from home, move back home, lose jobs, be hospitalized for psychotic breaks, come out as gay or bisexual, and on and on. And the thing is that in all of those cases, especially from an outsiders perspective, it would have been very easy to make assumptions about the quality of parenting: the parents were over-involved, they were too lenient, they were somehow Doing It Wrong. And they weren't. They were just doing the best they could, and in many cases facing a lot of criticism for it.

I do think that there are highly dysfunctional parent-child relationships, and that there are lots of ways that family dynamics can be unhealthy. On the other hand, when I see some of the extreme examples of what we're currently calling "over-parenting," such as the ones that have been cited in this thread, I always wonder what else is going on in the family, and why exactly the parents seem to feel the need to do some of those things.

True, I don't know all of the details about their household and relationship etc. I was extremely frustrated when I wrote that because this coworker is letting her parenting interfere with her job and that directly affects me.

At my company executives have personal assistants and department heads share two assistants. The parent I was complaining about is supposed to assist me. She neglected to order and organize lunch for a workshop I was hosting because she had to go home to walk the dog and bring her daughter lunch (daughter is at home for summer break). I had to scramble to get a lunch while a colleague presented his section of the presentation. When I confronted her about this after the fact she brushed it off.

I would estimate that she spends 30% of her day dealing with her 20 year old. She writes resumes, scholarship applications, job searches... Its a huge issue for me to get simple things done.

Her daughter is in university to become a veterinarian and she can drive. Most people in that position can style their own hair and take care of the dog.

 

[anne_h]

At my company executives have personal assistants and department heads share two assistants. The parent I was complaining about is supposed to assist me. She neglected to order and organize lunch for a workshop I was hosting because she had to go home to walk the dog and bring her daughter lunch (daughter is at home for summer break). I had to scramble to get a lunch while a colleague presented his section of the presentation. When I confronted her about this after the fact she brushed it off.

I would estimate that she spends 30% of her day dealing with her 20 year old. .

If you are one of the executives or dept heads, sounds like it's time to channel your feedback into this employee's performance review process.

Although if you are in a unionized environment, I know this might be tougher.

Anne

 

[purplesparklies]

I have seen the damage of over parenting as a parent and as a teacher. I know some great parents who truly feel they are doing their best but seeing the anxiety and self doubt in their kids in the classroom, it is clear that they are doing their child no favors. It is difficult to see and I know they have only the best of intentions. It is getting more awkward for the kids as they get older.

My oldest son is in 7th grade. 6th grade was fraught with big projects. It was painfully obvious on display evenings as to which projects were completed by students and which were completed by parents. Some projects were clearly not the work of the student whose name was on the project. As parents perused the projects and asked questions of the students, some students were woefully underprepared to discuss the details of their project. Poor kids had a very uncomfortable evening. Mom doesn't get to stand at the display and do the spiel for you. Uh oh.

I have friends who have turned down the opportunity to attend a social event because they don't have time because "Susie", age 11, has a project due. Ummm....? Susie should stay home and do the project. Another friend will complain of being exhausted because they pulled an all nighter with their high school child to finish a project. WTH? I have also had a friend who asked to borrow a kitchen appliance so they can make soup for "Sam's" project. They needed it at a certain time so they could make the soup when "Sam" was not even home. I'm thinking Sam didn't learn much from that project.

Maybe I am a mean mom, but I absolutely do not do my child's projects. It will not be perfect and it will likely make my OCD tendencies flare. I will offer suggestions if asked but my hands do not touch the project. My child does his own work and he will learn the lesson.

Of course, there are extenuating circumstances but the many instances of which I am aware are all involving perfectly capable young people. The only one who seems to think the child is not capable is the parent. Self fulfilling prophecy?

 

[Gypsy]

At my company executives have personal assistants and department heads share two assistants. The parent I was complaining about is supposed to assist me. She neglected to order and organize lunch for a workshop I was hosting because she had to go home to walk the dog and bring her daughter lunch (daughter is at home for summer break). I had to scramble to get a lunch while a colleague presented his section of the presentation. When I confronted her about this after the fact she brushed it off.

I would estimate that she spends 30% of her day dealing with her 20 year old. .

If you are one of the executives or dept heads, sounds like it's time to channel your feedback into this employee's performance review process.

Although if you are in a unionized environment, I know this might be tougher.

Anne

Chemgirl, I have complete sympathy. My co-worker who spent all his time dealing with his kids applications and doctors appointments (his wife couldn't make a doctor's appointment either, he made for for her as well... sensing a pattern) it impacted our whole department because he wouldn't get HIS JOB done and things were CONSTANTLY being re-assigned to the rest of us.

FINALLY we got a new manager (fantastic manager) and HALLELUIAH. No more coddling of him. My boss is EXTREMELY understanding of work life balance issues IF YOU GET YOUR JOB DONE. She will let you work from home, let you take days off, let you train and run in a marathon, take care of your sick kid, your sick dog or cat. BUT if you DON'T get your job done. NO WAY. And within MONTHS of her being his manager she put him on a performance evaluation/HR thing. And when he STILL didn't shape up. She shipped him out. Pretty much 12 months after she took over. I felt bad for him, but she gave him a full year to shape up. And he had 20 years of seniority on the rest of us. Still, he wasn't performing and his kids and wives issues were still taking up all his work hours even AFTER she placed him on a performance review/improvement plan.

And while I was sorry to see him lose his job. It was honestly the right thing to do.

It can be so hard in a work environment to see people laid off. But honestly? My husband had a poorly performing employee who was, unbeknownst to us, a drug addict. That drug addict did more than my coworker and he missed work one day a week until he was let go (failed drug test after it became clear he was coming to work impaired). That how much my coworker's life was sucked up by his overparenting.

I really think you should complain about this to your HR NOW and put it in any review of hers. It is something that can be addressed with her, great. And then she can STOP IT. But if she can't stop it? She's not doing her job. And that's a problem.

 

[ruby59]

I overparented when it came to their safety. I did not let them wander the malls with friends until they were well into their teens, had to know who their friends were, no face book, or cellphone, and computer time was strictly monitored until age 16.

But I also made sure they understood why, and my husband and I were straightforward with the facts based on their ages. We also made sure they were self-sufficient. My children had chores. They were responsible to keep their rooms and bathrooms cleanand, vacuumed, did their own laundy, and knew how to cook (my daughter-in-law thanks me for that).

Another important fact we covered was money management and to avoid the credit cards that are hawked on college campuses.

When my children went to college, they could function away from home. And you would not believe how many of them could not. One of my girls had to show her roommate how to do laundry.

Now, as each reached the sage of 18, my son moved out. He was very independent so that did not come as a surprise. My two girls still live at home, but they are very self-sufficient. And as our state's economy improves, I see them soon moving on to their own lives as well.

 

[Sky56]

ruby59, that sounds good to me.