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Opinions, please! BGD or CBI?

carbonfan

Brilliant_Rock
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Jul 12, 2015
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I am in search of opinions on sources for super ideal cut diamonds. To be fair, I should note that I own a gorgeous RB signature stone from BGD. I absolutely love it and I have nothing but the utmost respect for Brian's reputation and uncompromising dedication to quality. However, after reading countless PS posts I am equally intrigued by Crafted by Infinity diamonds and based on Wink's equally stellar reputation, I am considering HP diamonds for a future purchase. So my question is this... what are your opinions/experiences with either and/or both vendors? I am confident that both BGD and HP/CBI are amazing and that the diamonds from either one are of exquisite quality, so I realize that I cannot go wrong with either one... I would just love some insights on how to make a decision between these two as it will likely be my last diamond purchase for a while! Any advice/opinions/thoughts/etc. are greatly appreciated!! :)
 
are you planning on keeping the BGD RB? If not, trading it in with BGD may get you the most bang for the buck.
 
I think the decision maker will be whichever one has the diamond you want at the time you are ready to buy (assuming you aren't upgrading the current diamond with BG). In addition, Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, and Victor Canera all sell superideal cut hearts and arrows stones, as well. See who has what you want and then compare prices! One other factor would be who sells the setting you want.
 
I've purchased BGD and WF super ideals in the last couple of months. Both great and no discernable difference. I've also been privileged to study BGD and WF alongside CBI and other super ideals in conjunction with a respected UK gemologist. Nothing really to choose between them all. So I purchased on price and availability. Some charge a premium which I couldn't validate to be honest - so check carefully and also be prepared to negotiate. Just my 2 cents worth.
 
When I was looking to upgrade to a larger diamond last year I considered top tier stones from Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, High Performance Diamonds, and Good Old Gold. They all have excellent reputations on Pricescope and offer AGS graded super ideal cuts. It doesn't sound very romantic, but I made my choice based on availability of what I was looking for and price. I am confident that I would have been happy with a diamond from any of these vendors and like Spon88 I don't see any point in paying a premium for one over the others.
 
I would have to disagree with spon88. If a year ago someone told me I would end up buying two Crafted By Infinity Diamonds within a year, I would have said 'Please book an appointment with you local doctor for a checkup'. All I can advise is make use of the See It To Believe It policy by High Performance Diamonds and let the diamond do all the talking /sparkling.

The service from HPD is second to none and you will have no regrets. If this is your last purchase for sometime, take it from me go for a special Cut To Order with CBI to your own specification.

upload1.png

Good luck in your search.
 
Interesting and I respect that everyone has their preferences. I simply based my choice on value after validating, at least to my satisfaction and that of a UK trade guy with 30 years experience (and a big microscope!), that you can't tell the difference. If you prefer to pay a large premium for buy back policy, then of course go ahead. If there is any solid data to show that any of the manufacturers is leading, I guess we'd all be dead keen to see it?

Check your specs and the light performance carefully and then seek best value would be my tactic. But each to their own of course and good luck whichever route you choose.
 
spon88|1451513861|3968649 said:
I've purchased BGD and WF super ideals in the last couple of months. Both great and no discernable difference. I've also been privileged to study BGD and WF alongside CBI and other super ideals in conjunction with a respected UK gemologist. Nothing really to choose between them all. So I purchased on price and availability. Some charge a premium which I couldn't validate to be honest - so check carefully and also be prepared to negotiate. Just my 2 cents worth.

Hello Spon88,

Not wishing to detract from your decisions, but I do still have questions about abovementioned comparison you have gone through.

We have re-checked our systems, and are dead-certain that no CBI-diamond in the past year has entered the UK, where such comparison with other mentioned brands has taken place, let alone any of our diamonds having been in hands of an independent UK gemologist for such comparison.

I must add that it has happened before, generally in the US, that we hear about consumers having seen CBI from vendors not capable or allowed to show or sell our product. Generally, we have let such misrepresentations rest, but in today's age of diamond-companies being under enormous scrutiny with regards to potential money-laundering and the often attached terrorist-financing, we need to investigate this further.

Therefore, could you please contact me privately and inform me through which channel you have seen a supposed CBI-diamond. If you find the contact-form on our website as not suitable, you can also hit the 'report concern' button on this post, and ask the PS-administrators to forward your answer without exposing your identity.

Please, spon88, I am pleading for your assistance. This has nothing to do with your purchase-decision, it is about protecting the representation of our brand. You have not seen a CBI-diamond next to other brands and you have not seen a CBI-diamond in the hands of an independent UK-gemologist. We are asking for your assistance to identify who has misrepresented other diamonds as being our CBI-product.

Live long,
 
egemnoel|1451517207|3968680 said:
I would have to disagree with spon88. If a year ago someone told me I would end up buying two Crafted By Infinity Diamonds within a year, I would have said 'Please book an appointment with you local doctor for a checkup'. All I can advise is make use of the See It To Believe It policy by High Performance Diamonds and let the diamond do all the talking /sparkling.

The service from HPD is second to none and you will have no regrets. If this is your last purchase for sometime, take it from me go for a special Cut To Order with CBI to your own specification.

upload1.png

Good luck in your search.

I had to give this some thought. My response is CBI. And for the record I haven't seen a very big BGD either. I am sure both would be absolutely STUNNING, knock my socks off stunning. Not that I see myself ever facing this dilemma (I only wish...)

egemnoel, I totally get what you mean. I think trying argue with people who haven't seen it is pointless. It is surprising to me that PSers who haven't seen a stone would argue with PSers who have. But sometimes people are so stuck on their own opinions that they cannot be open to other possibilities. In all honesty, it's their loss. I hope you enjoy your two beautiful CBI diamonds. I sure would.
 
I genuinely don't think there is need for concern. These were stones belonging to a private individual, purchased elsewhere and brought to the UK for the purpose of comparison. My UK gem guy is well connected from that perspective as you might imagine and I was fortunate to be able to see a nice range of stones. So indeed please don't doubt what I was able to view. I have no reason to doubt the integrity.
 
Thanks to everyone for your insights! I am leaning CBI, particularly after seeing egemnoel's masterpiece... wow!! HPD has a diamond that interests me but it is currently on hold for someone else. However, the Cut to Order option sounds fascinating. How long did it take from start to finish, egemnoel? And again, many thanks to everyone for the information!!
 
carbonfan|1451583388|3968955 said:
Thanks to everyone for your insights! I am leaning CBI, particularly after seeing egemnoel's masterpiece... wow!! HPD has a diamond that interests me but it is currently on hold for someone else. However, the Cut to Order option sounds fascinating. How long did it take from start to finish, egemnoel? And again, many thanks to everyone for the information!!

I highly recommend a Cut to Order from Crafted by Infinity.
As I recall, I first spoke to Wink, John, and Paul via conference call in September and the diamond was delivered in November of 2014.
This diamond still surprises me when I least expect it even a year later e.g. in a darkened theater on a cruise ship




The entire process is discussed here:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-21-ct-f-si1-cto-crafted-by-infinity-in-a-vatche-serenity.208630/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-21-ct-f-si1-cto-crafted-by-infinity-in-a-vatche-serenity.208630/[/URL]

sm_fire_in_darkened_theater_img_0.jpg
 
You will have very little options to negotiate price if you do cut to order. I personally would never do that, because I want to see the finished stone before being obligated to buy.

We all love the superideal cuts that we have,obviously. We go through this discussion every so often. I can tell you that I have seen superideals cut by 4 of the vendors, and guess what? You will NOT be able to tell them apart!!! If you want to fall for good marketing and possibly pay more for the marketing, go for it! But not me...I look for the stone I want and then negotiate price between the vendors who have what I want at the time.

by egemnoel....Can I ask if you have seen superideal cuts by Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, Brian Gavin, or Victor Canera? Just wondering. I am glad you are so pleased with your diamonds! I also bought two new Whiteflash ACAs this year because I believe they are equal to the very best diamonds in the world! I'd be happy to own diamonds from any and all of the mentioned vendors, however, because I believe them to all be superior.
 
diamondseeker2006|1451590459|3968989 said:
You will have very little options to negotiate price if you do cut to order. I personally would never do that, because I want to see the finished stone before being obligated to buy.
DS
I don't know about other vendor's return policy. My cut to order Octavia came with a 30 day return privilege from GOG.
 
I'm with DS on custom cut diamonds, which I know is a service both BGD and CBI offer - I want to see the stone before opening the purse. I see no reason to have a common shape/4Cs combo custom cut unless it's a particularly hard-to-find combination that one's vendor of preference is unlikely to stock - D/IF, very large, etc. Whilst I know that with BGD Advance/CBI CTO stones there's no obligation to keep should the stone not turn out as anticipated... There's still a financial and emotional tie up-front that I personally would prefer to avoid if at all possible!

That said, I've never had the chance to play with a CBI RB. I want to spend some time with a CBI RB. Because from everything I've seen and heard and read, I absolutely do believe that CBIs are cut to more stringent, exacting, persnickety requirements than other popular PS H&A brands. I do believe that there is a scale of precision of cutting within precision-cut brands - and I do believe CBIs are the cream of an incredibly precise and beautiful crop. And I'm very curious to see if I personally can appreciate that difference...

With designer shapes like DF's Octavia... Well, custom cutting is a different question ::)
 
But when you have seen one and determined that, in your opinion at least, there is no difference, you'll be told that you couldn't possibly have. I don't really understand that to be honest but hey ho. I'm going to duck out of this thread now because it seems to have lost any balance :( sigh....
 
Just because Hearts on Fire says they have "The World's Most Perfectly Cut Diamond" doesn't make it true. Just because someone buys one or two diamonds and loves them, doesn't make them THE best, either.

Provide the proof that they are better than the rest (helium scans, light return images, visual tests, etc.) and I'll probably buy one. Until then, my Whiteflash ACAs are the most brilliant and incredibly beautiful superideal cut diamonds. :love: I could have bought any brand, but Whiteflash ACA was my choice because I know they have very strict parameters for ACA, and I have owned 8 of their diamonds total in addition to other jewelry pieces with their stones.

(In other words, carbon fan, you will find people who favor every vendor mentioned because they all have top cut quality diamonds. I happen to believe they are all great and would buy from whoever had what I wanted at the best pricing, as I try to buy top quality diamonds. I won't pay extra for marketing hype without proof, though. You may as well go for Hearts on Fire if you want to do that.)
 
spon88|1451594536|3969028 said:
But when you have seen one and determined that, in your opinion at least, there is no difference, you'll be told that you couldn't possibly have. I don't really understand that to be honest but hey ho. I'm going to duck out of this thread now because it seems to have lost any balance :( sigh....

+1
 
Thank you all for sharing your insights; this is exactly what I was looking for! I realize that all of the vendors mentioned are the cream of the crop and that everyone has their personal preferences based on purchasing experience, but I truly appreciate benefitting from information shared from people with more diamond-buying experience than I currently have! I am absolutely certain that I can't go wrong with BGD Signature, Whiteflash ACA, or HPD CBI. If anyone else wants to share their thoughts, by all means feel free! :)
 
Hi Carbonfan,

I am almost there with my responses, in my next post I will respond in detail about the CTO. Just need a few more mins...
 
Hi carbonfan,

I would like to have had a 2.2+ F VS2 and Wink took me through the entire CTO process. As our flights to NYC had already been booked and I could not wait for two months, Wink suggested the 2.16 G VS2 and if that was not suitable we would make use of the 100% upgrade policy and go ahead with the CTO. Just to let you know there was no need for a CTO to upgrade to the F once I had seen the G. It was stunning!

DS and Yssie - 63,000 posts between the two of you. Respect! You both have really been a great help in my decision making.

So I am going to break all rules and dig deep into the CTO process to clear up a few "misconceptions".

I am sure Wink and the CBI team will not mind and for me 2016 is just 1.30hrs away, so need to get on with it.

I would just like to correct the presumption about there being "no negotiation" (a CBI CTO does not cost more) and especially the "obligated to buy" - there is no obligation to anything not as promised and most CTOs actually improve in CT weight with no extra premium. If I wanted a 2.2CT and it came out a 2.6CT I would NOT have to pay any extra.

Also in some cases if CBI are too harsh on the colour / clarity grading and it comes back better from AGS again I pay NO more. It is a WIN WIN situation every time! Now lets say I paid for a 2.2CT and it comes back 1.9CT CBI will refund the difference or I can refuse the diamond and ask CBI to try again.

Now your fear of "seeing before buying" is not a fear for me and I am sure other CBI customers. All CBI are strictly controlled to have the same recipe. Let me put this bluntly, they all have identical performance. There are no outliers. CBI "throws out" anything that isn't at the top of the peak, so this fear isn't present and non existent.

As for "paying more" that is silly. CBI is a showroom brand. This is a different proposition basis than e-brands, although it's wonderful Wink and HPD make it available via internet. The CBI price point can be compared it to HOF or Tiffany or Cartier and you pay FAR less for superior consistency and beauty and far more intimacy. I almost purchased a Harry Winston Pendant and the combination of the CBI diamond and Leon Mege produced me a far superior piece of jewellery for a saving of about $10k.

It's like choosing for a master chef to come to your house and cook to order for you and your wife, rather than sitting in a fine restaurant but not knowing who prepared the food. It might all taste great, and I know the waiters are nice in the restaurant, but some folks place value on the cosier experience, added intimacy and direct interaction with the master.

Maybe this is more important to first time proposers than to long time collectors. Once someone starts collecting multiple diamonds, the intimacy may fade. But for my wife THIS EXPERIENCE WAS IT!...........and there is one thing ALL of you have missed apart from cflutist is "The personality of the diamond and I will quote "the diamond still surprises even a year later!!!!" Now for everyone who compares diamonds like for like for a few hrs, that is just the start go and live with a CBI and get use to be being surprised when least expected.

Our Christmas dinner was late by nearly 2hrs and I blame Paul Slegers, my wife could not focus that day.

So if haggling an "e-tailer" down on price is important and if choosing something proved beautiful but placing no value for the unique propositions outlined above is the goal - no problem. Please respect that people see things in different ways. People buy bicycles different ways. People buy cars different ways. People buy diamonds different ways.

Beauty, romance and specialness all considered, to me CBI is by far the best value diamond in the world. Totally unique. That is not marketing its truth in advertising and CBI is an extremely truthful bunch of nice people!

46mins to go and I would like to wish you all a very Happy New Year for 2016.

Oh yes one last thing Carbonfan, get use to strangers approaching you / accusing you of trying to blind them in a restaurant or commenting on such a beautiful diamond.
 
One more thing to mention, CBI cut their own diamonds at their own cutting house in Antwerp and only cut CBI diamonds.

BGD and Whiteflash use cutters in Antwerp who cut for well we don't know do we?
 
Thank you for the interesting insights. As noted, we didn't question paying more for a perceived level of service. All we commented on was, that in our opinion, you can't tell the difference between most super ideals. This was simply meant to help the OP with a decision making process. If it touched a nerve of those who paid a premium with a particular vendor(s) as seems to be the case, that was not intended (it was also somewhat surprising). Why the sensitivity? I'm still confused by some of the comments here.
 
Congrats on your stones egemnoel - it is clear that you and your wife love them and that's exactly how you're supposed to feel about your diamonds!

And thank you for the information re. Cut-To-Order! I note that on the mobile Infinity site, at least, info about CTO is extremely difficult to find (if it's on the site at all - I haven't yet found it). If these are their policies I really think they should be much easier to locate, the way BGD Advance details are front and centre on the info page.

But... I don't think DS, I, or anyone else in this thread made assertions that necessitated rebuttal :(sad the issue here for me is... I am a huge fan of "see it to believe it" - Infinity's philosophy. For me, though, and the source of this conflict: the "it" in question is the stone, not the brand. I simply do not believe that all stones are identical, even if of identical size and cut identically, outside the D-F/IF-VVS range.

What IMO makes Infinity special is that Paul, John, Wink, and crew pay attention to the minutia of cut that other brands aren't necessarily as heedful of, and that hypersensitivity to precision means that their signature stones are that much more predictable in terms of faceting and patterning. But... We're definitively talking about nuances here, and "performance" is a subjective thing! Other characteristics that objectively affect "performance" - body colour, inclusions - those add nuances that IMO are equally important to see to believe. And commissioning custom-cut stones asks me to fall in love with nuances I can't visualise because they don't exist yet... Which I can't do.

I suspect, however, that the point of custom-cutting is to encourage exactly that: confidence in a brand as a singular cohesive entity, rather than highlight individual stones... So my view on this subject is, most likely, not the "correct" one. ETA Actually, to be perfect honest, I suspect that the point of custom cutting isn't to provide an "experience" at all - though that may be a perk - it's just to reassure potential buyers that if they're looking for something that isn't currently in stock - no problem, don't let that turn you off, we'll make one for you! Which is, of course, an excellent, useful, and promotion-worthy service... And we're all just reading entirely too much into this whole conversation :bigsmile:

By the way I consider Wink a friend and have already made my opinion on CBI clear - I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a CBI to someone looking for the absolute cream of the crop :bigsmile: so I hope readers will take my post in the spirit of clarification of my personal view on custom-cutting specifically that it's posted :))
------
Probably the most important part of this post - I will say that I can't personally speak to how or where the various PS vendors have their stones cut/sourced... But I think assertions on this subject shouldn't be made lightly - unless you have complete confidence in your statements and could provide incontestable proof if asked for it, I'd generally urge anyone to reconsider leading statements with such clear implications. I hope that PS vendors are free to correct any incorrect consumer assertions re. sourcing (on any thread)?


And I completely agree that people buy things - diamonds! - in different ways!! That's what's so awesome about this forum I think - so many paths to choose from, and so many people willing to jump in and discuss them :sun: I think it's fantastic that you had such a greatly treasured experience - it sounds like the process was memorably wonderful from start to finish, thank you for sharing it with us :appl:
 
Posting on my phone... The editing view is unforgiving and autocorrect is the bane of my thumbs. Kindly forgive errors and suspect sentence structure... :errrr:
 
diamondseeker2006|1451598391|3969056 said:
spon88|1451594536|3969028 said:
But when you have seen one and determined that, in your opinion at least, there is no difference, you'll be told that you couldn't possibly have. I don't really understand that to be honest but hey ho. I'm going to duck out of this thread now because it seems to have lost any balance :( sigh....

+1

+1
 
I thought you had to work with the rough when cutting a diamond

So surely the specs you end up with will just reflect the nuances of the rough stone you started with and not necessarily be the exacting numbers a PSer would expect in perfection

So does a CBI or any other start from rough or an already cut stone they tweak to give better stats
 
Just wanted to add that Whiteflash and Good Old Gold have lovely showrooms/jewelry stores and also sell on the internet for those who prefer the in-person experience.

Sphene, I believe most of the time they are cutting from uncut rough. All of the superideal brands aim for specs within a certain range. Whiteflash lists theirs on their site, but all of them generally fall within the parameters some of us post for newbies here. I do know that Jon has recut some existing diamonds into AVRs because sometimes someone asks for a certain color and clarity and that is the best "rough" available at the time.
 
spon88|1451583287|3968952 said:
I genuinely don't think there is need for concern. These were stones belonging to a private individual, purchased elsewhere and brought to the UK for the purpose of comparison. My UK gem guy is well connected from that perspective as you might imagine and I was fortunate to be able to see a nice range of stones. So indeed please don't doubt what I was able to view. I have no reason to doubt the integrity.

Hi Spon88, Happy New Year,

I understand that my questions might distress you, but please allow me to put this in perspective.

Working closely as diamond-experts with law enforcement in various countries, we have been warned of certain policies posing a threat to us. In detail, the buyback-policy of HPD on CBI-diamonds theoretically creates a 'virtual currency'. We have been warned that drug cartels and terrorist-financing tend to use such virtual currencies, especially because of their difficulty to track, and we are therefore extremely careful in our dealings.

In this perspective, the fact that there seem to be private individuals holding one or possibly more CBI-diamonds, apparently unset, who are capable of importing them to the UK, without apparently bothering you with cost of shipping, Insurance, VAT or import duty scares the hell out of me. This is way more scary than the possibility of someone simply pretending to show a CBI in comparison.

Legislation both in the US as in Belgium obliges us to prove we have taken sufficient precautions to prevent money-laundering. Reading your posts, this is a precarious legal situation, where I need to dig further now in order to prove our innocence, in case this becomes a legal problem.

For that reason, I plead with you again for your assistance. Can you give me particulars on the UK-gemologist who arranged this for you? At least, please give me particulars (weight, color, clarity) on the CBI-diamonds you have seen? Please do not take my questions lightly. I am dead-serious.

And to the OP, my sincere apologies for this threadjack.

Live long,
 
I'm sorry if this has caused concern but genuinely it need not. Nothing was imported in a clandestine manner or traded. Same as when I travel with my wife with our personal jewellery. This was just a couple of guys comparing their diamond jewellery and me taking the opportunity to learn more. Really as simple as that so nothing untoward at all! I imagine this sort of thing happens all the time amongst jewellery aficionados and trust me, I wouldn't go anywhere near the dodgy type of activities mentioned. I can't really be any clearer about this! Happy New Year.
 
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