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Opinions on JA Oval

The 2.03 VS1 seems like a contender even if it has a slight bow tie. The video looks pretty great and lively- definitely try to see it in person! James Allen has a location in NYC and I think you mentioned that you were planning to go to the city - maybe you could put both the 2.03 and the 2.35 on hold and ask them to call both stones into their showroom?

That last one (the G VS from B2C) is not my favorite.
 
prbaglady said:
The 2.03 VS1 seems like a contender even if it has a slight bow tie. The video looks pretty great and lively- definitely try to see it in person! James Allen has a location in NYC and I think you mentioned that you were planning to go to the city - maybe you could put both the 2.03 and the 2.35 on hold and ask them to call both stones into their showroom?

That last one (the G VS from B2C) is not my favorite.
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Exactly what i am trying to do now. unfortunately the baby g is located in Mumbai and they make you choose at least 1 stone that is it NYC - they also said it can take a week to get an appt lol. I'm definitely working on it :) great minds think alike thank you!
 
I'm so glad the ASET for the G VS1 turned out to be pretty strong. For me, that ASET would be strong enough to order it loose to see in person. But, if you want to compare two, I agree with PP that you might need to go visit them at a JA location. Remember to move away from the showcases and get the stone into natural lighting. If you can find a fluorescent light fixture, have a look there to.

@diamondseeker2006 You are brilliant. I should have noticed the marquise facets, but I was just so enamored of the outcome (and working off 3 hours of sleep). I still love it, but I really love the more unique and unusual cuts for my personal collection. If I had $20k available and not allocated to repair roof damage from the Nor'easter and blizzards....

How can you tell if a stone is in NY or not? Do you have to send them a list?

Will the guarantee the hold for that week until the appointment? If not, you could have them send two stones to the NY store. Order the G VS1 and bring it with you to the store. That would give you three to compare between.
 
One way you can have an idea if they are in NY is the shipping date. If it can be delivered in one to two days, it's possibly in NYC.
 
Rocky salamander & Diamond seeker - yes the JA associate told me that the way you can tell if they are available in NYC is to select ship date for next day when you search. The baby G is located in Mumbai - unfortunately this diamond partner will not give up the stone for consideration to be seen in NYC - I would have to front the $$. Right now I've fronted for 2 stones - and the best I can do is put it on hold while i wait for my b2c return to be processed. :( . keeping my fingers crossed.

tomorrow this guy should arrive - we shall see how he performs IRL.
 
jaimem123 said:
Rocky salamander & Diamond seeker - yes the JA associate told me that the way you can tell if they are available in NYC is to select ship date for next day when you search. The baby G is located in Mumbai - unfortunately this diamond partner will not give up the stone for consideration to be seen in NYC - I would have to front the $$. Right now I've fronted for 2 stones - and the best I can do is put it on hold while i wait for my b2c return to be processed. :( . keeping my fingers crossed.
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You can probably put it on hold for now.
 
I just want to say that as a consumer i have very much appreciated hearing different view points and opinions of different vendors in addition to the non vendor PS experts! It helps me solidify even more @Rockdiamond 's point that the beauty really is in the eyes of the beholder ! If the stone feels right to YOU that is always what is most important !! We can do all the research, get all of the images, use all of the tools but at the end of the day if it doesn't feel right - it's just not right ! (that's not to say that the tools don't help - they certainly can - but the most important tool is the one that really has no scientific measurement - the heart !!). Thank you to all for such an informative discussion.
 
JDDN said:
......physical size does not have anything to do with performance.
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What an amazing discussion!
I think you can see now why I place some emphasis on physical size.
If two stones are each $10k and one looks a lot larger than the other- that's going to come into play in most buyer's minds, right?
 
Rockdiamond said:
What an amazing discussion!
I think you can see now why I place some emphasis on physical size.
If two stones are each $10k and one looks a lot larger than the other- that's going to come into play in most buyer's minds, right?
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Could you be confusing performance with preference?

jaimem123 said:
I just want to say that as a consumer i have very much appreciated hearing different view points and opinions of different vendors in addition to the non vendor PS experts! It helps me solidify even more @Rockdiamond 's point that the beauty really is in the eyes of the beholder ! If the stone feels right to YOU that is always what is most important !! We can do all the research, get all of the images, use all of the tools but at the end of the day if it doesn't feel right - it's just not right ! (that's not to say that the tools don't help - they certainly can - but the most important tool is the one that really has no scientific measurement - the heart !!). Thank you to all for such an informative discussion.
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Jaime, you could not be more right!!
 
Performance versus preference.
Now that there is a very interesting discussion!!!
If we consider other things judged for performance, the first thing that comes to mind is cars.
Performance is judged on how fast it goes from 0-60 mph.
This can be accurately and repeatedly tested - and one car can easily be compared to another.
If we compare this to wine, something which I know very little about- I'm sure that the evaluation must be far more subjective.
Starfacet said:
not if the larger one doesn't sparkle!
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BINGO!!!!
You're totally correct Starfacet- it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that bling.
We're talking about Sparkle. Brilliance. Contrast. Patterning. Liveliness.
Let's use the ASET I posted as an example.
If we compared it to a well cut Oval Brilliant ASET, the OB would have larger, well-defined areas of red and green. Less Leakage as well.
So the OB performs better, right?
Let's go back to the real world, where we have $10k to spend on a diamond.
Two hypothetical diamonds. Both cost $10k. Same color clarity.
Diamond A is an Oval Brilliant, with an excellent ASET.
Diamond B is the one I posted. We don't own the stone- never have. I took the pic as part of our research.
I did very much like the life and sparkle of the stone- so it's a good subject for a discussion.
Yes, diamond A will have larger, bright white flashes.
But Diamond B has a different kind of sparkle. The large white flashes can be interpreted as "better" performance versus the more plentiful, yet not quite as bright smaller sparkles of Diamond B.
But diamond B has edge to edge sparkle, and it's visible larger.
This is no way as simple a choice as which car gets to 60 mph faster.
Maybe it's rooted in my desire to make the experience of diamonds a positive one- but I can't see why a person choosing diamond B needs to be made to feel like they're buying something lesser because other people are deciding what performance is. - and my position is that judging diamond performance is truly a subjective judgment if we're looking at two well cut, yet differently cut diamonds
 
Rhino said:
I totally agree that a diamond can have what appears to be a great ASET and not be visually attractive. This is where two other factors must come into play with the creation of any diamond with great ASET's.
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As a consumer I couldn't agree more! There's so much more to it than quantity of red/green/blue/black... The distribution of that light return matters just as much. If there's no obvious pattern (and usually even if there is an obvious pattern, honestly) my eyes would much rather see an even distribution of light return type across many evenly-sized facets than either large undiluted areas of red/green/blue or non-distributed concentrations of extremely large facets and extremely small facets.

The oval that @Rockdiamond posted would be an easy choice over the top-row oval @Rhino posted. And to trawl from @Rhino's inventory again... I was very excited when the AVC Star was introduced! The traditional AVC features a central concentration of very large facets that return light through the same range of angles surrounded by smaller facets that all perform very differently... breaking up the cross and introducing that contrasting star ticks both my "even distribution of light return type" and my "across many evenly-sized facets" boxes ::)

Between our beloved PS vendors there really is something for everyone!! :appl:

Rhino said:
1. The experience of the gemologist translating the ASET's to real world visuals (something I've been doing now for over a decade) and
2. Actual human observation.
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I've always been a rock hound... and a magpie. My mum loves to tell a story about warning a younger me that I was absolutely not going to be allowed to pack the ~5kg bag of beach stones I'd collected on vacation in my suitcase. So I put them in hers, and she complained about how heavy it was the whole day in transit, and I said nothing - until the customs inspector on the other side of the world asked what on earth that was.

When I first started learning about diamonds the numbers and formulae and scans were overwhelming - I trusted my eyes. I pretty quickly learnt my way around the numbers and the formulae and the scans and they became my gospel. Now, years later, having had many opportunities to play with many types of stones, I'm back to where I started: I trust my eyes. The difference, of course, is that now my eyes know what they like to see and they know how to translate numbers and formulae and scans into real-world expectations. I think it would be easy, without access to a multitude of stones, to get stuck in that second stage wherein the data becomes the most important thing, sans contract with which to translate it; I can't speak for @Rockdiamond but I often feel this is precisely what he warns against. I also think that there are no shortcuts: that translation isn't something one can write out or diagram. The only way to find out what your eyes like to see is by seeing and judging, again and again and again...
 
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Rockdiamond said:
and my position is that judging diamond performance is truly a subjective judgment if we're looking at two well cut, yet differently cut diamonds
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I completely agree with you here and I also think you are sprinkling in 'preference' with your definition of performance :)). Performance in terms of how much light is being returned (something that can be measured) vs performance/preference of how the stone looks and attracts us to it.

yssie said:
I also think that there are no shortcuts: that translation isn't something one can write out or diagram. The only way to find out what your eyes like to see is by seeing and judging, again and again and again...
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I really love this. I also I love when people come here looking for their first diamond and then become totally enraptured in the process both with numbers and with the subjective and personal analysis and a passion has been born.

I do think the discussion is teetering on two different platforms though. The role of an ASET will be very different for someone who has the fortune to really evaluate and play with a bunch of stones and who has seen various diamonds before and developed a palate vs the guy who comes here and says "I'm going to propose soon and I found this excellent cut diamond on James Allen, is it a good one?" He may not really care to play around with stones and look at them like the OP Jaime is doing so the ASET is great. For Jaime, she is using the ASET to help vet stones because she has to pay to bring them to her and that is costly and time consuming. But the best part is that she is using her eyes to make the final decision :)).

I think the essence of what @Rockdiamond is saying is the spirit of PS though. It's about what you love and what makes you feel giddy. If someone comes here after the fact of buying and says "look what I bought and I love it!" PS celebrates that joy in tandem and without judgement. No one says, "Well what did the ASET look like?" In partnership with this spirit, PS is a wealth of knowledge and innovation and that is largely due to technical imagery and numbers, etc. We are lucky to have the best of both worlds and what fun to share in this community!
 
hi everyone. one more quick question that i just want to get confirmation on. we did place a deposit on this diamond a while ago with the jeweler in my hometown and he has graciously held it for us. (it's the diamond on the right in this video it's a GSI1 2.5 carats - the other is a 2.22 E that i nixed).


just confirming that it's not a good choice bc too much light leakage? Thank you!! and please excuse my nails in the video!
 
Alright - I just got the G VS2 in. (here is the certificate - yes it is also a GIA diamond I just think this report is really cool) ... What do we think? Here is a video done in natural lighting - by the window.


I took it by another window and this is how it appeared:


It's definitely more "alive" than the E. I think I do see a bowtie though. but I'm not sure if it's a "bad" one... at this point i am feeling incredibly confused lol!!! would love some opinions :) thank you so much!!
 
Oh Jaime I'm confused with you! In the first video of the G vs the E, is the G the one on your right, aka the larger one??

The two ovals in the G vs the E video look like they have more splintery crushed ice faceting. The G VS2 appears to have slightly larger facets and it's reflecting the light differently. Honestly the videos are so small it's hard to tell! I do see a bow tie in the last video but does it bother you?

What do you think so far? When you step back and just admire them what do you like? If it is possible, try not to 'analyze' them and just see what you are drawn to.
 
Oh gosh @JDDN now I’ve probably confused everyone ! So sorry!!! In the video I showed above comparing two stones - those stones are not the same E And G that I ordered from B2C . They were stones that were called in for me a month ago from my local jeweler . Yes the G 2.50 is the bigger one on my right in the video at the jeweler .

My video this morning was the G that I got from b2c.

Honestly I don’t hate the G that my jeweler has - I do like the smaller facets but I was told in another thread that these weren’t good choices .
 
I'm kind of confused which stones are which now. Without reading back, were you able to cancel the stone that your "friend" was offering you at $2k over what you could buy it for here?

From what I can tell about the local jeweler stones, I am not liking the random crushed ice look. I like well defined facet patterns.

I think this last G VS2 looks like a possibility, but it's going to help a lot if you post all the info about a stone in a single post, such as ASET, magnified video, and realistic video, specs so we can be sure of which stone we are looking at.
 
@diamondseeker2006 sorry for the confusion. I am feeling all of the emotions right now - excited, nervous, stressed and a little pressured (not from any one in particular - it's self created because i just want to be engaged - first world problems i get it and feel silly even saying that i am stressed about this). For such a big and important purchase (it's my engagement diamond!) i just want to make sure it's right. I plan on passing this stone on to my future daughter one day - God willing. So I do apologize for my scatter brain-ness LOL. I have a hunch i'll be forever known as "the crazy oval lady" on the PS forum ! ha

here are all the specs from the G in which I received today. if you click the report here that I attached in google drive you will see the ASET image. The videos of it are below.


Here is a video done in natural lighting - by the window.


I took it by another window and this is how it appeared:



As for the diamond situation with the friend (the GVVS2 that was discussed in previous posts) - here is what happened. When I went to order it at the low price on B2C they told me it had been purchased by a man named "R" . When I asked my friend about it he said that R was the one selling him the diamond. He did share with me the documentation for which R told him the price . The diamond is in NYC waiting for me to be seen - and I will have a look at it. Even with the price increase it's still within my budget and at this point I just want to get the best stone. Now here is what I don't understand. Riddle me this PS'ers this same G VVS2 is now back on B2C for the *same* price I am now being quoted ( I confirmed the GIA #) . I don't fully understand the inventory system here but I'm sure it's somehow controlled by the diamond partners
 
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Wow, that is unfortunate that the price got changed on that stone. This is just my opinion, but I wouldn't buy that one on principle.

I like the 2.3 G. It has a bowtie, but only you can decide if you love it enough to buy or not! I think the 2.0 G VS1 oval from JA might be a little better, but honestly, I understand the desire for the greater size.

Don't apologize for taking your time and getting the best possible stone! Most of us here agonize over our own diamond purchases at times. It's much easier to give advice than it is to buy for ourselves! Much more emotion involved when the purchase is for you!
 
You are in good company as far as being the "crazy oval (or insert any diamond here) lady!" I wasn't kidding when I told my husband I found my people when I discovered PS :lol-2:.

I like the look of the 2.3 G but I prefer larger facets and it reminds me of the larger faceting of an antique oval (it's not close to an antique style but this is what it's reminiscent of for me). You said you like the smaller facets and that is great because now you can focus on that aspect. I'm not sure what the context of someone telling you smaller facets aren't a good choice, but the faceting is personal preference so don't eliminate stones because of it. In the video of the 2.5 G there seems to be a small area just above the belly that isn't lighting up, it's staying dark. I have no clue if that persists in all lighting environments or if it's an artifact of the video situation but thought I'd mention it.

If you really like the 2.5 G then keep it on hold and compare it to the G VS1 that RockySalamander found. Is that an option? Remember it doesn't matter if we like something better than you! You are finding very nice ovals so rest assured you're doing great!
 
thanks @JDDN !! :) appreciate it . i brought the 2.3 GVS from B2C in to our family jeweler today to compare to the 2.5 G so i could see them side by side. the bowtie became even more prominent for me with the 2.3 GVS.

Here are a couple of the two side by side (the 2.5 is on the right - as you can see the 2.3 has a bigger spread)..





I know the 2.5 G might not be everyone's cup of tea but now when I compare them my eyes tend to lean towards it more :) . I'm going to try to also take this one with me to NYC and compare.

I do really like the one rockysalamander found - but i will need to wait on it until our refund clears from B2C so for now it's on hold - i can probably get them to hold it for a few more days ;-) . i can't lie - the size does matter and it's just a wee bit small for me !!! BUT that doesn't mean it still isn't a contender - it sparkles like crazy!
 
Dave you're a gas.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not but shallow leaky diamonds are the absolute best candidates for fancy colored diamonds. Why? Because of the phenomena of color absorption! Ie. it makes the diamond look more yellow than it's actual body color! Great for fancy colors but not good at all for white diamonds. It's generally why I would always steer people into D-G colors when it came to these kind of cuts but even at that, their ideal cut counterparts will always face up whiter. :rodent: I have live video of laymen comparing E color vs I color and saying the I color appeared whiter face up.
 
Rhino said:
Dave you're a gas.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not but shallow leaky diamonds are the absolute best candidates for fancy colored diamonds. Why? Because of the phenomena of color absorption! Ie. it makes the diamond look more yellow than it's actual body color! Great for fancy colors but not good at all for white diamonds. It's generally why I would always steer people into D-G colors when it came to these kind of cuts but even at that, their ideal cut counterparts will always face up whiter. :rodent: I have live video of laymen comparing E color vs I color and saying the I color appeared whiter face up.
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Gas..... they do have a pill for that:)
Jon since you’re into deep stones, I don’t know if you’re aware but some colorless pear oval and marquise stones still can be absolutely gorgeous in depths below 60%. You should check some out. People love larger looking stones that sparkle wonderfully.
 
Rockdiamond said:
Gas..... they do have a pill for that:)
Jon since you’re into deep stones, I don’t know if you’re aware but some colorless pear oval and marquise stones still can be absolutely gorgeous in depths below 60%. You should check some out. People love larger looking stones that sparkle wonderfully.
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Deep according to whom? Are you aware that depth on a fancy can be measured in one of 3 ways? Stay tuned my friend. :Up_to_something:
 
I agree that depth percentage is simplistic and in some cases can be a misleading benchmark. But in general, depth and spread show a relationship.
Jon- do you consider spread at all important in assessing the make ( cut) of a diamond?
Honestly, it does seem like a lot of the cuts you promote don't have the best spread.
 
Good morning Dave.

Rockdiamond said:
I agree that depth percentage is simplistic and in some cases can be a misleading benchmark. But in general, depth and spread show a relationship.
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Agreed.

Jon- do you consider spread at all important in assessing the make ( cut) of a diamond?
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Of course but it is not the primary factor when determining overall "ideal" or even the goal of the designer. Karl and Yoram know exactly what I'm talking about. Spread had little to do with the design of the Octavia. Beauty of the cut had everything to do with it. You see ... we live in a world of shallow ovals Dave. You may not think so and probably disagree but I look at oval after oval over the course of my life, and in the past decade ASET after ASET after ASET (which I know you don't care for) but I look at diamonds in this fashion and with my experience & background ask myself ... what is it I can do to make this radically more beautiful? In fact a new product completely? In the case of ovals (and other cuts for that matter) it's because of extraneous light leakage among other factors I wanted to see changed.

Honestly, it does seem like a lot of the cuts you promote don't have the best spread.
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Spread as compared to what? Do you realize the same can be said for *any* ideal cut Dave including the Octavia? Imagine if the cutting fashion during the early 20th century was primarily all shallow rounds with depth % of 50% then Tolkowsky comes along and introduces the most beautiful rounds with a 62% depth. The world would say the same thing.
Plus your statement isn't true because the AVC's have the best spread possible in cushion brilliant cuts... ESPECIALLY AGS IDEAL. And insofar as spread goes for a diamond, that is not the reason for it's being invented or even brought to market. Again the Octavia is a great example of what I'm talking about. If a diamond is exhibiting adverse optical effects because it is cut too shallow, the first step towards a positive solution is making it the proper depth.

Have an awesome day.

Rhino
 
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