Opinion on the Quality of a Particular EGL Diamond

[Mem6319]

I purchased an EGL stone (US 62667001D). The price of the diamond is $7,120. I just wanted to get opinions on the quality of that diamond. The jeweler will likely set it in the band later this week. They've been very easy to work with so I should be able to switch to another diamond if this stone doesn't seem like a decent deal. I initially picked out a very good cut GIA diamond, but wanted an excellent cut so I ended up going with this EGL ideal diamond. In doing some additional research, it seems like EGL may be less stringent in their grading, but I'm not sure if that's gotten better over the years.

https://www.eglusa.com/verify-a-report-results/?st_num=62667001D

 

[arkieb1]

EGL USA is usually one to two grades out (it can be more) generally around one to two in colour and one to two in clarity and they have weaker guidelines for excellent cut grades too. Base it on numbers not on what the EGL certificate says. This is a good tool;

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Buying an EGL stone is always cheaper because of the discrepancies it's not an "apples to apples" comparison with a GIA graded stone.

 

[headlight]

I know years back EGL USA was "respected" but all the other EGL's in other countries were not, especially EGL Israel. I don't know if EGL USA is still considered acceptable. If this EGL is operating the way the others were years back, there may be some differentiation in the color and clarity grades. Do you have photos? Also, red flag off the top: The girdle is very thin. You should just pass on this stone, IMO... if other PSers disagree with me on that point regarding the girdle I welcome their knowledge. I don't want you to chip that girdle. Also, while I am a bit more "forgiving" when it comes to the specs than most here on PS, the majority of the numbers are not in ideal range. I don't know how well the crown angle is going to work with the pavilion angle - I don't believe they are complimentary but I am sure someone else will be chiming in here shortly. Have you run it through the HCA? Do they have any images from an Idealscope or ASET? It has a large table. That will yield you more white light and less fire. I personally don't care for the visual aesthetic of a large table (as I used to have a diamond with one). Sorry to not have glowing things to say but since they haven't set it yet best to change your mind at this point.

 

[Dancing Fire]

A very thin girdle is not good news, plus no prove of being a H&A stone w/o pics.

 

[lovedogs]

Unfortunately that is not a good stone, and is unlikely to perform as well as something better cut. And since the stone is likely a J/K SI2, since egl isn't relisble, you probably overpaid

 

[lovedogs]

Also HCA is over 5, which is very poor

 

[John P]

I initially picked out a very good cut GIA diamond, but wanted an excellent cut

It may be useful to let your jeweler know GIA would not give this one EX. The fundamental measurements of that diamond would get GIA VG in cut. Many jewelers are not aware the EGL system is more relaxed.

Useful link here: https://www.gia.edu/facetware

Added FYI: In the AGS performance metric it would be a candidate for AGS 5 light performance (out of 10 where 0 is the highest grade).

 

[Mem6319]

Appreciate the quick responses. I don't have any pictures on hand, though it appeared to be H&A in store (they had a smartphone device to magnify the diamond). Hearts and arrows did look like slightly better on a GIA excellent cut that I looked at. I'm reaching out to the jeweler for the GIA numbers of a couple 1.01 carat excellent cut GIA stones that they had in stock. They didn't have any GIA excellent cut diamonds around 1.3 carats, but I'll see if they can provide the GIA numbers for a stone that they could bring in to the store that's an excellent cut 1.3.

 

[lovedogs]

Appreciate the quick responses. I don't have any pictures on hand, though it appeared to be H&A in store (they had a smartphone device to magnify the diamond). Hearts and arrows did look like slightly better on a GIA excellent cut that I looked at. I'm reaching out to the jeweler for the GIA numbers of a couple 1.01 carat excellent cut GIA stones that they had in stock. They didn't have any GIA excellent cut diamonds around 1.3 carats, but I'll see if they can provide the GIA numbers for a stone that they could bring in to the store that's an excellent cut 1.3.

Unfortunately gia XXX isn't sufficient to guarantee good performance. You'll need to stick in the following parameters, and run through HCA to make sure it comes out under 2.
Depth between 60-62.4
Table: 54-58
Crown: 34-35
Pavillion: 40.6-40.8 (sometimes 41 can be ok with a 34 crown)

 

[carcarat]

I knew others would comment, everyone on PS is very knowledgeable.

Im speaking from personal experience. My husband proposed to me with a EGL 1.20 carat F Si1 stone. When it came time for an upgrade, not many reputable jewelers wanted to take the trade in. After taking it to an appraiser that had been in the business for many years, he said it is actually a H, Si2. I ended up selling it for 1/4 of what my husband paid. I now have a GIA 1.50carat, H Vs2 and it is a much better stone. In my search to upgrade, I did find that jewelers that sold EGL diamonds did not have a good selection of GIA diamonds when I asked them for it. I think they are banking that uninformed buyers to buy the EGL stones.

 

[lovedogs]

I knew others would comment, everyone on PS is very knowledgeable.

Im speaking from personal experience. My husband proposed to me with a EGL 1.20 carat F Si1 stone. When it came time for an upgrade, not many reputable jewelers wanted to take the trade in. After taking it to an appraiser that had been in the business for many years, he said it is actually a H, Si2. I ended up selling it for 1/4 of what my husband paid. I now have a GIA 1.50carat, H Vs2 and it is a much better stone. In my search to upgrade, I did find that jewelers that sold EGL diamonds did not have a good selection of GIA diamonds when I asked them for it. I think they are banking that uninformed buyers to buy the EGL stones.

THIS ALL DAY LONG! That's exactly what they are banking on. These jewelers know that if they were to send it out to a better lab (GIA/AGS), it would come back with much worse stats. So they keep the incorrect EGL cert and charge people as though the stone actually has those stats. It makes me

 

[lovedogs]

You could get this branded super ideal cut stone for less $$, which comes with a $1 upgrade policy. My guess is that your stone is a J (at least)/SI2 (at least). This will look 100000000x better.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4092506.htm?source=pricescope

 

[Mem6319]

Thanks again everyone for the help!

My jeweler has GIA 7312756051 available for $7,600. I also asked him if he's able to get two other stones in stock (GIA 6322472887 & GIA 5201263726) and, if so, what the pricing would be. Still waiting on a response from him on those last two, but do you guys have any thoughts on whether each of these is a quality stone? If so, is there one that would likely be the best quality?

I was trying to run these through the HCA, but it's saying I've reached my limit of 3 free ones (even though I haven't used any). Not sure if you just have to pay if the stone isn't available to search on PS, but if there's another link I can use for the HCA or if I'd just have to pay a few bucks, I can do that.

 

[more-Sparkle]

 

[headlight]

This is not a good stone.

 

[more-Sparkle]

Here are those other 3 @Mem6319

 

[Mem6319]

Any thoughts on the other two? I figured the I color VVS1 (6322472887) would be a better value, but not sure if the crown angle is too low or if the pavilion angle is too high? The G VS2 (5201263726) will likely cost more, but I'm willing to spend a little more for a better stone. Looks like the angles on the G VS2 may be better.

I'm hoping my jeweler is able to bring these stones in if they are good quality.

 

[Mem6319]

Spoke too soon. Thanks for posting all of the HCAs!

 

[headlight]

Here are those other 3 @Mem6319

For the one that scored a 0.8: So here is a situation where all the specs (specifically the angles!) are NOT in the PS preferred range and yet the HCA gave it Excellent for all the performance elements. This would then speak to the conversation that a diamond does not have to fall within those parameters necessarily to yield a great performer.

 

[Ss52]

Here’s a handy site to tell you where a round diamond places on the GIA and stricter AGS cut ratings. Just insert the table and crown/pavilion angles.

https://www.diamondscreener.com/cut-estimator/

 

[lovedogs]

The G/VS2 will be a more balanced stone. VVS1 is hugely overkill on clarity, and you are just paying for something you can't see. Ask if he can get the G/VS2 and how much it would cost.

 

[headlight]

Here’s a handy site to tell you where a round diamond places on the GIA and stricter AGS cut ratings. Just insert the table and crown/pavilion angles.

https://www.diamondscreener.com/cut-estimator/

So this relates to what I was saying earlier... how much validity does one put into this? If I enter my specs, my stone is in the intersection of both the GIA and AGS (exactly were you want to be), yet my stone does not fulfill all the PS preferred specs. So I'm not sure how much weight (sorry, bad pun!) to put into things like HCA (which has proven in my case to be spot on, fortunately) and this cut estimator.

 

[headlight]

The G/VS2 will be a more balanced stone. VVS1 is hugely overkill on clarity, and you are just paying for something you can't see. Ask if he can get the G/VS2 and how much it would cost.

Totally agree!

 

[carcarat]

If your jeweler cannot get those other GIA stones and continues to show you less than desirable GIA stones, I would strongly suggest that you go with another jeweler or consider online vendors. I would hate for you to go through the same ordeal I went through.

 

[bmfang]

Thanks again everyone for the help!

My jeweler has GIA 7312756051 available for $7,600. I also asked him if he's able to get two other stones in stock (GIA 6322472887 & GIA 5201263726) and, if so, what the pricing would be. Still waiting on a response from him on those last two, but do you guys have any thoughts on whether each of these is a quality stone? If so, is there one that would likely be the best quality?

I was trying to run these through the HCA, but it's saying I've reached my limit of 3 free ones (even though I haven't used any). Not sure if you just have to pay if the stone isn't available to search on PS, but if there's another link I can use for the HCA or if I'd just have to pay a few bucks, I can do that.

GIA 7312756051 = HCA 3.5 (too deep and 36.0 CA not complementary with the 40.8 PA)

GIA 6322472887 = HCA 0.8 (it’s a contender due to inverse crown-pavilion angle combo 33/41 but with depth at 60.6 and table at 58, it’s approaching 60/60 combo. Also big look for its dimensions. Stone is available at BN for just over US$7k. The video looks ok but not spectacular to my eyes.

GIA 5201263726 = HCA 1.4, another contender, this shows up on HCA with the appears like depiction listing that it appears big for its dimensions relative to other similar sized stones. Much prefer these dimensions. At B2C Jewels, this is listed for around $8.1k. Plot is exceptionally clean under table with the grade setting inclusions out near the girdle.

 

[gm89uk]

If you are not in rush, I strongly suggest getting a refund and taking the time to learn more about diamonds before paying 7k. There are many things to consider about diamond cut, and your decisions now will stay with you for life!

The EGL pavilion of 41.8 is chaotic.
H&A it is not. Please read the education section of pricescope and vet your selections here before you pull the plug

 

[Ss52]

For the one that scored a 0.8: So here is a situation where all the specs (specifically the angles!) are NOT in the PS preferred range and yet the HCA gave it Excellent for all the performance elements. This would then speak to the conversation that a diamond does not have to fall within those parameters necessarily to yield a great performer.

If someone finds a low crown with large table appealing, the .08 would be a good choice. It is within AGS ideal range according to their own numbers. I think the PS preferred range helps people stay in a “safe” zone, away from the the edges of ideal border. I’d still always want to see an ASET image.

 

[kmoro]

I think it might be good to mention that the HCA is not an acceptance tool, it’s a rejection tool.

With GIA rounding and HCA only taking a few angles into consideration, I hope the OP does not choose a diamond based only on HCA. It’s a good starting point, but you need light performance images to know whether you’re choosing a good diamond. You can order an ASET scope to use yourself - they’re very easy to use and a quick read on what to look for will help you out.

Incidentally, a PA of 41.8 would likely cause huge clefts in the hearts, right? So it would not be an H&A cut.

I’m glad the OP found Pricescope before any final decision!

 

[Mem6319]

Not in a huge rush, but if the G VS2 is available, I may have my jeweler bring that one in based on the other responses. Also, found the following stones online:

1.4 I VS1 (GIA 1298599731) - https://www.rarecarat.com/diamond/59178182 | https://yadav-certs.s3.amazonaws.com/1298599731.pdf

1.5 I VS1 (GIA 6204191741) - https://www.rarecarat.com/diamond/58520190

Couldn't get the GIA report to load on the 1.5 this morning, but I can check if my jeweler has access to these as well. The 1.4 seems to fall out better on that cut estimator link that was posted earlier. Ultimately trying to keep the price of the stone below $9K if possible so I can keep the stone + setting below $10K, but I have a little room to work if a quality stone would put me slightly above $10K in total.

Again, thanks for all of the help!

 

[Ss52]

The 1.50 looks very nice! Have you considered a super ideal for the ultimate in light return?

I hope your jeweler can import the 1.50. The cert opened for me, and it’s clean. One cloud under the table near a star facet. I can’t find it.