? on AGS and laser inscription (kinda urgent)

[froufrou]

Hi all,

so we are looking at a diamond at a local jeweler (basically we went there and he was really cool to us and showed us a lot of diamonds but now i sort of wish we''d bought it online its just that we wanted to be able to see how it looked).

so we have settled on a diamond that we like (he showed us 3 that met our characteristics). The diamond is AGS graded and I asked to see the numbers that are laser inscribed. however, this is what is weird. the numbers on the diamond do not match the numbers at the top of the AGS certificate. but they match some post it note that is stuck to the front of the AGS certificate. the AGS certificate looks "real" as from what ive seen pictures of AGS certs online. also all the little inclusions on the diamond match the mapping on the cert. he says that the numbers on the diamond are actually inscribed by some company called "stuller" or "stoller" where he buys the diamond from, who sends it off to AGS, but AGS does not inscribe it and Stuller inscribes it with his own number and that once we buy it we will get another certificate from stuller saying that this is the right diamond.

does this make sense to anyone? to me it seems like the numnbers on AGS should match the diamond, that is the point of having the number on AGS in the first place?

what do you guys think??

thanks! any and all help appreciated

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, I hope there is a good explanation for this (I''m sure one of the appraisers will know), but I wouldn''t even consider buying it unless it is explained. Have you compared the numbers to similar stones on here and compared the price?

 

[Gypsy]

Do the inclusions match the ones plotted on the cert? Can he prove to you that it''s the right diamond?

 

[froufrou]

well, he is trying to explain that the inscription is the Stuller ID number even though it also has an AGS cert. i dont understand why the AGS number is not inscribed...but he says that is how it is because of this "stuller red box program" or something like this.

the price we ended up settling on is okay, i have checked on that before we agreed on it.

it is ...

AGS 000 Ideal cut : .72 carat: G color:SI2 clarity

the price we agreed on was 3,000 including the diamond, tax, and the setting (a simple tiffany style six prong in white gold by Stuller)

the weird thing is we went to pick it up today and he had accidentaly set the wrong diamond in it, which we had also looked at and rejected, an...

AGS 000 IDeal cut: .72 carat; I color: SI2 clarity.

there is only one difference in them and we almost didnt notice and he apologized a million times saying it was an accident and will now set the diamond i want in that setting and we can come look at it again in a couple days. now i am a little bit wary of him though and so im trying to be extra careful. should we get it independently appraised somehow before we buy it even though its got the AGS cert??

 

[froufrou]

gypsy: yes, the inclusions do match the chart pretty well. i am no expert and wasn''t checking that carefuly because i assumed i could just look at the inscribed number later to be perfectly sure.

 

[Gypsy]

Well, I am hoping one of our experts will weigh in... but yeah. I would get it independantly looked at. In fact, I''d have it looked at un-set and then have him set it right in front of me.

 

[Dancing Fire]

take the loose stone an independent appraiser.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Who caught the fact that he had set the wrong stone in the setting?

 

[Gypsy]

Ooooooooooh that''s a good question. Before we burn this guy in effigy (okay so I''m a bit testy tonight)... was he the one who caught it and brought it to your attention?

 

[froufrou]

i was a little concerned that it looked "yellower" than i remembered when we first saw it, and my boyfriend noticed the cert was different and thus noticed the problem.

the jeweler was quick to apologize a zillion times though and kept saying that the stone he did set there was a more valuable one than the one he picked out so he hoped we didnt think he did it on purpose. the stone he set in it instead had all the same specs except I color instead of G color like ours was, but had a better mapping than ours even though they were both SI2s. this made me wary cause to me it would seem like this one he changed it out with was less valuable since it was several points yellower. he says he will call the stone we wanted in and have it reset by tomorrow. the laser inscribed numbers will still not match though.

 

[froufrou]

oh and also even when we were first picking out a stone out of those two the jeweler had been saying that the I was way more valuable than the G because it has fewer marks in the mapping picture (although both are SI2s). he kept trying to convince us to get the I to begin with although we basically wanted the G, but he was giving us basically the same price for both. so maybe he juist got confused because he liked the I better himself and thought that was what we should like? how can the G be cheaper than the I though with everything else the same... he said the I costed him a couple hundred dollars more to get than the G...

 

[Diam100]

I would definitely take it to an appraiser. It could have been a mistake but than again...

 

[froufrou]

also by the way...how do i go about getting it independently appraised before i buy it??

 

[Gypsy]

I saw your other post about the I vs G thing. Doesn't make any sense to me because they are both SI... unless the type of inclusions on one are less dangerous... like if the G has a bad feather or something. But the fact that he was pushing you to get that one. THEN set it like that for you, THEN didn't catch it would basically have me extremely worried. As for apologizing.

What was he going to do? He screwed up and didn't catch it. OR he tried to screw you and got caught. Either way he should be sorry. Not getting any points for that.

 

[Gypsy]

Where are you located? Where is the jeweler?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Before talking appraisal, what is this jewelers return policy?

ETA: This is exactly why I think it is safer to buy from one of these vendors. Good and bad experiences are made public, and the vendors know it...although I am sure all the ones here are very honest!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Do you have a copy of the cert? If it already had some kindof laser inscription, I would think that should be noted on the AGS cert.

 

[glitterata]

This mistake, on top of him telling you that the I is more valuable than the G of the same size and clarity, would probably make me change my mind about buying from him. It may well be an honest mistake, but it would leave me with a bad feeling.

Was the G eye-clean? I guess, maybe, if the G had visible inclusions and the I didn''t, he might be justified in saying the I was worth more.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'll go ahead and give an opinion, too, even though you haven't had a chance to answer the last couple of questions. There are too many red flags on this one. I would cancel it if it were me. I find it veeeery hard to believe that between two AGS000's, the I SI2 was several hundred dollars more than the G SI2. Did you not ask the prices when you first compared the two diamonds and rejected the I?

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 5/15/2006 9:46:55 PM
Author: froufrou
oh and also even when we were first picking out a stone out of those two the jeweler had been saying that the I was way more valuable than the G because it has fewer marks in the mapping picture (although both are SI2s). he kept trying to convince us to get the I to begin with although we basically wanted the G, but he was giving us basically the same price for both [...] he said the I costed him a couple hundred dollars more to get than the G...

Just because one cost him more doesn''t mean it is actually a diamond that is worth more, objectively. It sounds like he was trying to unload it... anyway he could. Which could just be an unfortunate result of an honest mistake... or not. And I don''t think you can know which one it is. No matter how much he appologizes. What''s he going to do if he did try to cheat you? Admit it?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Sorry, I overlooked that about the cost. Did you look at both diamonds magnified? Why did you choose the G if the I was "so much better"? Again, this doesn''t add up and I''d be afraid to buy from this jeweler unless he has a very excellent return policy.

However, I have a new thought. Since the numbers are different on the diamond than the cert, he could claim you had switched out the diamond and not take it back. Getting the Stuller certificate "after" you buy is another of many red flags as well.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay. So we''ve basically decided that you need to not buy from this seller. So I''m gonna run with it as if it''s been decided.

PRICESCOPERS HAVE HANDED DOWN THEIR VERDICT. *giggle*

If you already paid-- if he gives you trouble:

A) If credit payment: dispute with credit card company.
B) If cash: Call BBB. Make sure they understand you were buying more than an object-- but a service (replating, prong checking, etc.) and will not work with this guy further and want your $$ back. If that fails. Small Claims court.
C) If check. Place stop payment IMMEDIATELY.

If this is not an issue, you haven''t paid. Call the guy. Tell him he''s lost your confidence and that''s final. Then let us help you find a lovely new ring.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Gypsy and I can have some fun finding you some alternatives! As I look, I do not see that you were getting great deal from this guy. Here are a few Signature collection (heart and arrows) diamonds from James Allen that seem to be better than the ones you were looking at:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?cid=53&item=513502 (F SI2, .72, $2490.)

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?cid=53&item=803435 (G VS1, .73 $3040.)

I'd probably choose the G VS1, because I think that is a nice combination of color and clarity. You'd have to check on the F being eye-clean, of course. I think they have a small wire discount, and plain settings are not much ($150. for 18K WG solitaire).

 

[Gypsy]

Okay... what was the deal you got? Why does 3000 including tax and setting ring a bell? I can''t seem to find it though.

I think we can meet or beat that. You wanted a plain prong setting of some sort, right? Where I am getting this I have no idea. I could be making it up, for all I know. Diamondseeker? Where am I getting this? Is it my fevered imagination?

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 5/15/2006 8:42:18 PM
Author: froufrou

AGS 000 Ideal cut : .72 carat: G color:SI2 clarity

the price we agreed on was 3,000 including the diamond, tax, and the setting (a simple tiffany style six prong in white gold by Stuller)

Whew! I was getting worried.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

She could get the F SI1 and setting for less than the jewelers price and the G VS1 plus setting for $3190 minus the wire discount which would still come out to about the same as that jewelers price, and both of these appear to be better diamonds (there was another G VS 1 the same size as well). Oh, and no sales tax unless she lives in MD.

 

[Gypsy]

Perfect. See. We''ve got it all fixed.


*I think we scared her off though.*

Psst.. froufrou... I put the cattle prod back... it''s not even an industrial one. More of a toy really. We won''t hurt you. Promise.

 

[DiamondExpert]

Sltuller is a site holder of De Beers, and they have what is called a Red Box Program which is a marketing program for vendors.

The stone was no doubt sent to AGS for grading and when returned to Stuller they inscribed it with their program #, not the AGS DQD #. AGS does not inscribe unles asked.

The difference in price could be due to many factors - Not all AGS0''s are created equally, nor are all SI2''s - and then if the stones were obtained from different sources, there is the matter of different prices from different sources.

I think it''s unfortunate that they set the wrong stone, but it sounds like an honest flub...good thing you caught it.

By all means have the stone looked at by an independent if you are still uneasy, but I don''t sense a great conspiracy here.

Good luck!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 5/15/2006 11:15:52 PM
Author: Gypsy
Perfect. See. We''ve got it all fixed.


*I think we scared her off though.*

Psst.. froufrou... I put the cattle prod back... it''s not even an industrial one. More of a toy really. We won''t hurt you. Promise.

She won''t get the cattle prod thing unless she''s reading our other thread. Lol!

DiamondExpert, we are so glad you stopped in! Perhaps we shoudl give this guy the benefit of the doubt? However, Gypsy and I can probably find her a better deal.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

GYpsy, you''ll have to take over now if you are on another time zone other than eastern. I''ve gotta hit the sack!