OMC more Life then MB?

[craighnt]

Am I imagining this as possible? I have an old mine cut diamond ring that seems to have a lot of life, more so next to a modern brilliant. The Old Mine Cuts are not very symmetrical, usually lower in color and or clarity so in theory they could never be as perfect at reflecting light yes or no? Is it possible the people cutting diamonds back then had a better feel or understanding of what made a diamond really show its best as opposed to the more formulaic modern cut round focused on symmetry?

I read a story about how they were cut under different like, such as gas lamps or candle light which makes the really stand out under those conditions as compared to modern lights. Is that true? The reason I ask is the first time someone noticed my ring (dinner with friends at a restaurant) without me showing them first was under these exact lighting conditions.

 

[arkieb1]

Am I imagining this as possible? I have an old mine cut diamond ring that seems to have a lot of life, more so next to a modern brilliant. The Old Mine Cuts are not very symmetrical, usually lower in color and or clarity so in theory they could never be as perfect at reflecting light yes or no? Is it possible the people cutting diamonds back then had a better feel or understanding of what made a diamond really show its best as opposed to the more formulaic modern cut round focused on symmetry?

I read a story about how they were cut under different like, such as gas lamps or candle light which makes the really stand out under those conditions as compared to modern lights. Is that true? The reason I ask is the first time someone noticed my ring (dinner with friends at a restaurant) without me showing them first was under these exact lighting conditions.

This is actually really funny because I have read numerous people on here saying these stones were cut by candle light or gas lamps. And I see it and think, why were they working at night? YES they were made to be worn, shown off and to look good in low lighting situations like dinner where they sat down formally and ate or in parlous and places they went out to; balls, dancing, theatre comes to mind.

Given the fact that daylight is a lot brighter than a candle, and they did have it back in the 1800s and 1900s I think it's fair to assume that most of these stone would have been cut by a window in daylight allowing the person to see what they were doing..... but they do look fantastic in low lighting situations that is true.

"More life" is a subjective term. OMCs have bigger bolder flashes of sparkle and fire in a different visual scintillation pattern as opposed to smaller finer flashes of fire that modern brilliants have. I have two antique stones that have more straight out bling when you walk into a shop and compare them to a top cut RB, by that I mean a bigger chunky style of sparkle which attracts attention . Does it make them have more fire, more lively and better cuts? Nope, it makes them different, if your eye prefers them then that it all it is.

 

[TC1987]

Has a bolder look, maybe. There are differences in the modern RB H&A stones, too. The first one I bought was sort of bland to me, but there was nothing lacking it its light performance. I apparently like larger and bolder contrast and scintillation patterns. I'm very happy with the stone that I traded it in on.

 

[smilligan]

It's all subjective personal preference. I've never heard of old cuts being cut by candle light, but they were cut to show the most sparkle in candlelight. I believe the chunkier facets and higher crown are the reason for this. MRBs have more facets and a lower crown/smaller table which gives off more, but smaller, flashes. Personally, I strongly prefer the smaller flashes and I would own a solasfera if I could.

 

[ericad]

Just goes to show that maximum light performance and symmetry aren't the only measures of beauty.

There's a reason that old cuts are being preserved and why people love them - they have a quality that can't be matched by modern cut stones, including modern antique reproductions, which are also very "clinical" in their faceting (nothing wrong with that, but they don't look the same as genuine old cuts - they appeal to a different audience). They're special and for those of us who love them, there's nothing that compares to a true antique diamond!

Antique cushions and OMC's are getting rarer by the day because they're being recut and disappearing from the market. If you have one, hold onto it! Good ones are getting so hard to find, which is such a terrible shame.

 

[craighnt]

Interesting point on the lighting. Yes it dose make sense that they would have worked in daylight hour or by a window. However, I think sheet glass for windows wasn't invented until the mid 1800s. Clear glass was available to only the wealthy and even then it had a center spin patter to it. So I guess for the person cutting diamonds back then it is entirely possible that night hours were by candle light. Or as mentioned, it was not out of necessity but rather intentional for the customer who would be attending most formal functions at night.

Keep in mind, that diamonds were not as widely spread throughout the population back then as they are today. The wealthy were the only ones who could afford them which were also the ones to go to more elaborate events. I know that back around that time, the way you dressed was a sign of your wealth, and showing your wealth meant better social status and business opportunities. That is why most people dressed up back then. Think about the days of Titanic as compared to now. Diamonds were not the focus of engagement rings back then. It was not until the 1930s that diamonds became more available to the masses and started appearing in wedding rings.

 

[arkieb1]

Interesting point on the lighting. Yes it dose make sense that they would have worked in daylight hour or by a window. However, I think sheet glass for windows wasn't invented until the mid 1800s. Clear glass was available to only the wealthy and even then it had a center spin patter to it. So I guess for the person cutting diamonds back then it is entirely possible that night hours were by candle light. Or as mentioned, it was not out of necessity but rather intentional for the customer who would be attending most formal functions at night.

Keep in mind, that diamonds were not as widely spread throughout the population back then as they are today. The wealthy were the only ones who could afford them which were also the ones to go to more elaborate events. I know that back around that time, the way you dressed was a sign of your wealth, and showing your wealth meant better social status and business opportunities. That is why most people dressed up back then. Think about the days of Titanic as compared to now. Diamonds were not the focus of engagement rings back then. It was not until the 1930s that diamonds became more available to the masses and started appearing in wedding rings.

I'd like to be able to agree with you on the candlelight thing because it's really a romantic notion, but I have had a go at cutting gemstones ages ago (and I was really bad at it) and there is no way in hell you would have enough light to see what you were doing to cut a decent anything. It's hard enough on the eyes without adding low visibility. Maybe they went outside, you also have to remember that there has been an evolution of diamond shapes and cuts. If you google the dates or look at Antique pieces the first cuts are badly cut blobs they evolved into rose type cuts then Old mine cuts then cushions and OECs then transitionals then modern round brilliants. Thinking about what you are saying with the windows and the glass the type of cuts may well have evolved along with both windows and glass and non natural man made lighting sources. I know they have definitely evolved with electricity and the types of cutting wheels and instruments available and the proportions of the "Ideal" round brilliant and other types of cuts have evolved over time too.

 

[missy]

Antique stones have different personalities than modern cut stones. That's how I feel about it. Chunkier flashes, softer glow, and so romantic. And I definitely have to say that my OEC looks just amazing in dim illumination including candlelight but in any low light situation. I love it in all types of lighting but the low illumination captures it's unique personality IMO the best.

 

[craighnt]

I'd like to be able to agree with you on the candlelight thing because it's really a romantic notion, but I have had a go at cutting gemstones ages ago (and I was really bad at it) and there is no way in hell you would have enough light to see what you were doing to cut a decent anything. It's hard enough on the eyes without adding low visibility. Maybe they went outside, you also have to remember that there has been an evolution of diamond shapes and cuts. If you google the dates or look at Antique pieces the first cuts are badly cut blobs they evolved into rose type cuts then Old mine cuts then cushions and OECs then transitionals then modern round brilliants. Thinking about what you are saying with the windows and the glass the type of cuts may well have evolved along with both windows and glass and non natural man made lighting sources. I know they have definitely evolved with electricity and the types of cutting wheels and instruments available and the proportions of the "Ideal" round brilliant and other types of cuts have evolved over time too.

Well, your personal experience may have been difficult by today's standards, back then they made do with what they had. I found this old illustration from the 1700 showing them cutting diamonds. Looks like its indoors not by candlelight but definably not outside. So probably still lower lighting then what most of us are used to.

http://www.langantiques.com/university/index.php/File:Diamond_polishing_~1710.jpg#filelinks


This is a great video on the the progression for OEC to now, unfortunately the first part is cut off where the diamonds started out as square. But still cool progression from OEC to now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5MHEh4txoU

 

[LLJsmom]

I have been seeing more and more old cuts IRL, and I find them very beautiful and their flashes of light are very bold, as a previous poster said. However, I have discovered I am very much an MRB kinda girl. There has been a lot of discussion about color, why people like whiter diamonds, etc. Well, here on PS, I definitely think more people prefer old cuts and colors below F. Maybe the MRB lovers aren't as vocal. It's just my impression.

I definitely don't think that OMCs have more life than MRBs, but of course I prefer MRBs. I love staring at the sharp flashes of light. I love the symmetry of a well cut MRB. That is what my eye prefers. I have an F and love how white it is everywhere, as well as the contrast it shows. I took a video of my MRB with an omc which I did love. If I can post a video I will link to it. It definitely shows how differently they reflect light.

 

[CharmyPoo]

As an owner of modern and old stones, I find that the old stones definitely have more personality. I find my interpretation of how they react in most lighting ... does translate to being more lively. They just react differently ... you can stare at an old cut forever with the different fire, colors, .... I find my MRB and Modern Cushions more boring. Sorta reacts the same way all the time.

 

[arkieb1]

I'd like to be able to agree with you on the candlelight thing because it's really a romantic notion, but I have had a go at cutting gemstones ages ago (and I was really bad at it) and there is no way in hell you would have enough light to see what you were doing to cut a decent anything. It's hard enough on the eyes without adding low visibility. Maybe they went outside, you also have to remember that there has been an evolution of diamond shapes and cuts. If you google the dates or look at Antique pieces the first cuts are badly cut blobs they evolved into rose type cuts then Old mine cuts then cushions and OECs then transitionals then modern round brilliants. Thinking about what you are saying with the windows and the glass the type of cuts may well have evolved along with both windows and glass and non natural man made lighting sources. I know they have definitely evolved with electricity and the types of cutting wheels and instruments available and the proportions of the "Ideal" round brilliant and other types of cuts have evolved over time too.

Well, your personal experience may have been difficult by today's standards, back then they made do with what they had. I found this old illustration from the 1700 showing them cutting diamonds. Looks like its indoors not by candlelight but definably not outside. So probably still lower lighting then what most of us are used to.

http://www.langantiques.com/university/index.php/File:Diamond_polishing_~1710.jpg#filelinks


This is a great video on the the progression for OEC to now, unfortunately the first part is cut off where the diamonds started out as square. But still cool progression from OEC to now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5MHEh4txoU

Here is your picture;



I am kind of skeptical with what you are saying because where are the actual candles in your image? I can see one thing in that whole picture that might be a candle holder attached to the shelf up high, but I'd assume they would have more of them, or big lamps or candelabras there are none of them even in this building. What I do notice, is the big huge floor to ceiling windows behind the characters in the sketch, I can also see there is a huge doorway with someone standing in it which is a huge open space we know it's big because you can see a whole church behind it out in the street. On the other side on the left hand side behind them is another window and what looks to be like a doorway, who knows what is in the foreground. I look at that picture and it confirms my original suggestion they cut these stones in areas where there is a LOT of natural light - the reason is because that is the only way they could see what they were doing. I have also seen images old pictures like this one of people "crafting diamonds" half in a barn like structure and half outside, once again confirming that it was done by as much natural daylight as possible.

Anyway moving on to more important questions, so when are you going to take some more pics of your OMC?