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synoptic

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
12
Hello everybody!

I've been looking at diamonds to see what I can buy for an E-ring. I've been learning as much as I can... though this whole process seems overwhelming at times.

My budget for a diamond can be upto 19-20k and am looking anywhere from a 1.85-2.1 carat range though understand color may have to be sacrificed for this. I'm hoping to match it with a victor canera setting though still working through details. I was able to reserve a BG advance 2.087 J VS1 for $16.7k though just wanted to get more advice from the board before pursuing this. Should I avoid J altogether? The setting maybe platinum solitaire though rose gold is a possibility. Is the BG advance program worth it? I know diamond delivery can take some time but I'm ok with that.

It seems whiteflash has various different options as well. Any others to consider from them, hpd or BG? I've listed a few below, though there seems to be so many different options. Thank you in advance for any advice!

1.901 H VS2 ACA $20,632
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018641.htm

1.926 I S1 ACA $16,913
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018645.htm

2.081 J VS1 ACA $17,123
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4024621.htm

2.162 ct J VS2 ACA $17,441
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4024620.htm

2.125 J VS2 ACA $17,485
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022272.htm

2.046 J SI1 ACA $17,228
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/2.046-j-si1-round-diamond-ags-104083536022

2.098 I VS2 BG Advance . $19923
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.098-i-vs2-round-diamond-bfg-785606

2.061 J VS1 . BG Signature . $18881
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/2.061-j-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104101239077
 
If you want to stay in budget I really like that 2.16 J vs or the 2.08 J vs (which is very close in size to the 2.12 so save some money there in size)
 
How color sensitive are you both? I only ask because some tint will be visible. Are you both okay with that? No right or wrong answer here, it's a preference thing.

Also I might note as you go lower in color you find more diversity between stones graded of the same color.

As an example, maybe with H you have high, low and mid meaning it could be almost an I, almost a G or just a regular H.

In a J, maybe you have 5 variations: high, medium high, medium, medium low and low.

Those aren't hard and fast facts but just an example of how the spectrum grows as the color lowers.

Assuming you have a killer cut, size and color are the next most noticeable traits. Knowing color preference helps know how to draw the line.

Two other quick thoughts. You pay a premium for magic weights so better value can usually be found in a 1.9xx stone vs a 2.0xx stone. It might help you get better color, etc for instance while the MM measurements won't be detectable to the eye.

Lastly, consider upgrade programs. HPD and WF are unrestricted. Spend $1 more and get full credit. BGD requires $1 more, plus upgrading 2 of the following 3 C's: carat weight, color or clarity.

And if you are purchasing an approx 2 carat stone today, what size might be a reasonable upgrade in the future? 3 carat? Does all vendors gave good stock of those bigger stones to make an upgrade easy?
 
Thank you for all the feedback! I've been trying to keep it a surprise and haven't been able to look over color preferences with her. She is someone I think who will be very happy with what I find for her ...I'm hoping. LOL! She truly is an amazing person...and the brief times we've talked about rings has never been about expectiations ect...

Sledge, you bring up a great point in being able to upgrade easily for a better diamond with HPD/WF...though I'm not sure she would want to. I also never realized the diversity of color increases the lower you go in the color scale! It makes a lot of sense though. I understand how a 1.9 stone definitely makes a lot of sense looking for value. Maybe I should target for 1.9xx in a H or I color? If the J color was ok, have you heard of decent experiences with the end product in a BG advance order? The pricing of it seems very competitive as there is a promotion right now. Thank you all for your advice once more!
 
I like the 2.098 I VS2 by BG. I am a little leery of J color in a RB.
 
sledge said:
How color sensitive are you both? I only ask because some tint will be visible. Are you both okay with that? No right or wrong answer here, it's a preference thing.

Also I might note as you go lower in color you find more diversity between stones graded of the same color.

As an example, maybe with H you have high, low and mid meaning it could be almost an I, almost a G or just a regular H.

In a J, maybe you have 5 variations: high, medium high, medium, medium low and low.

Those aren't hard and fast facts but just an example of how the spectrum grows as the color lowers.

Assuming you have a killer cut, size and color are the next most noticeable traits. Knowing color preference helps know how to draw the line.

Two other quick thoughts. You pay a premium for magic weights so better value can usually be found in a 1.9xx stone vs a 2.0xx stone. It might help you get better color, etc for instance while the MM measurements won't be detectable to the eye.

Lastly, consider upgrade programs. HPD and WF are unrestricted. Spend $1 more and get full credit. BGD requires $1 more, plus upgrading 2 of the following 3 C's: carat weight, color or clarity.

And if you are purchasing an approx 2 carat stone today, what size might be a reasonable upgrade in the future? 3 carat? Does all vendors gave good stock of those bigger stones to make an upgrade easy?
Click to expand...

Excellent points brought up by @sledge. Please do not assume that "Anything I get her she'll be happy with" when it comes to diamond color. This definitely something you need to check with her about, especially when considering an I color in that size range. At the 2 carat mark, most people will be able to notice a slight tint in an I color. Now, whether or not that is true for your GF, and whether or not she would be bothered by the tint if she did notice it (or actually prefers it, as some people do like and prefer tinted diamonds), is entirely individual.

You should definitely try to figure out where she stands on the "color sensitivity" spectrum. Can you ask one of her best friends if she's ever hinted about whether she likes icy white diamonds? Could you "accidentally" (:mrgreen:) walk by a jewelry store with her and nonchalantly ask if she would like to go in and look at diamond colors? These are pretty good ways to figure out color sensitivity while keeping it a surprise.

If you can stretch your budget for the stone a bit, then I would recommend this G/SI1:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3995840.htm

This diamond is extremely clean for an SI1. In fact, it looks cleaner than the H/VS2 you posted, which has that ugly crystal under the table. And G color is usually safe when it comes to the diamond appearing white to all but the most color sensitive individuals (which, unfortunately for my wallet, includes me. ;)2).
 
I think if you go rose gold, a J color solitaire should be safe unless your SO has indicated she has a floor on color.

You can also consider a 6 prong solitaire to expose less of the pavilion. This may help the appearance of yellow from the side view if it’s a hangup on the purchase.
 
Thank you @TreeScientist, @holeydonut, @doberman! I have actually been favoring a 6 prong for a more secure setting as well +/- a potential scalloped basket. That g s1 looks beautiful though. It truly is amazing how many variables there are that affect the presentation of a diamond ring.
 
synoptic said:
Thank you @TreeScientist, @holeydonut, @doberman! I have actually been favoring a 6 prong for a more secure setting as well +/- a potential scalloped basket. That g s1 looks beautiful though. It truly is amazing how many variables there are that affect the presentation of a diamond ring.
Click to expand...

Yes, there's definitely a lot to consider, which is why I think it is a good idea to figure out a few things about your significant other's preferences regarding an E-ring even if it is going to be a surprise. Never go into this completely blind. Here's a good "cheat sheet" of preferences that would be a good idea to know prior to selecting a surprise ring:
  • Setting Type: Solitaire? Halo? Three Stone? Pave or plain shank?
  • Setting Metal Color: White metal, rose gold, or yellow gold?
  • Diamond Size and Shape/Cut (What cut does she like and how big does she want it?)
  • Diamond Color (Meaning you need to figure out her color sensitivity)
My fiancé and I were also "Old fashioned" in that she wanted me to select the ring and surprise her with the proposal. But I still gathered the above information from her prior to selecting the ring.

Trust me, even if she's the type that wants you to surprise her and will say out loud that she's happy with whatever you got her, I think that most women, deep down, have at least a smidgen of an idea as to what their "Dream Ring" would look like. Your job as the man is to get as close to that "Dream Ring" as possible while still keeping it a surprise. ;-)

It sounds like you know the diamond size/shape and setting style that she wants, but one thing that concerns me beyond the "Color Sensitivity" issue that I addressed above (and that you should definitely check on with her), is the metal color. In your original post, you said "The setting maybe platinum solitaire though rose gold is a possibility"

So, do you actually know which she prefers? Most women currently prefer white metals (WG or Platinum), as they are the standard for E-rings in modern society, but some do like yellow gold (YG) or rose gold (RG).

I would say that metal color is probably one of the most important considerations when it comes to E-rings, as most people have fairly strong feelings when it comes to metal preferences due to the way that different skin undertones "mesh" with different metal colors. Even as a man who doesn't normally pay much attention to personal fashion, I will only wear white metals, as I hate the way that YG and RG look on me (I'm a "Summer" for all of you color palate people :mrgreen:). I'll be honest, if my wife got me a RG watch, I would have a hard time wearing it even though it came from her with love, because seriously, I hate RG on my skin.

Also, as mentioned by @holeydonut, metal color will affect what color diamond you can ultimately go with. YG and RG both make diamonds appear "whiter" because of the contrast, so you can usually go with a lower color diamond if going with a YG or RG setting. If you do go ahead with a RG setting, then you could consider H-I colors (and maybe even J colors) but if you're sticking with platinum, then G is the lowest I would recommend in that size range unless you have explicit confirmation from her that she would be OK with a lower colored diamond.

So first thing, try to turn that "Maybe platinum or maybe rose gold" into a definite decision one way or the other, and THEN you can make the correct choice regarding diamond color (that is, after you've checked with her of course. :) ).
 
@TreeScientist, Thank you once more! So I was actually able to find out a bit more on her preferences. The ring will be a white metal solitaire, round stone. She had gone with her sister once to go diamond shopping and had some difficulty being able to tell the differences in color across the nearly colorless range. I do believe now though that I should drop J diamonds...after the discussion above. It seems like targeting stones in the GHI colors, carats of 1.9-2.1, eye clean is probably where I should be looking maybe?

There is the Brian Gavin advance stone 2.098 I VS2 for a little over 20k that I'm debating.(https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.098-i-vs2-round-diamond-bfg-785606) I've been trying to find more folks with experiences of this way of ordering though seems to be limited.

Any thoughts on this WF 1.921 ct H SI1 (https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018646.htm) .

Any other places I should be looking? Maybe discuss it with IDJ in New York or Adiamor/James Allen?
 
Glad you were able to "sneakily" get that information. If you've found out that she's not all that color sensitive, then H-I should be fine (but may want to stick with H to be safe).

I like the H/SI1 you posted from WF, but I think it would be wise to check out diamonds on the open market to see if you can find something cheaper. Avoid James Allen though. Their prices aren't all that much lower than the SuperIdeal vendors, and I would highly recommend working with WF over JA if you were paying about the same price.

Here's a really beautiful diamond that you may want to consider. It's above the 2 carat mark, is an H color, and is very well cut. You could ask Adiamor for an IdealScope image if you're interested. :)

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/2.06-ct-H-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond/D42130430?
 
Do you know if the "2 carat" mark is important to her? Some women really like having a diamond at or over a certain "magic number" (1 carat, 1.5 carats, 2 carats, etc.) even if it doesn't make any real appreciable difference in appearance.

If the 2 carat mark isn't important to either of you, then I would stick to diamonds in the 1.8-1.9 carat range. As @sledge said, you're not going to be able to see much of a visual difference in .2ish mm diameter, and you'll save a bunch of money dropping below 2 carats. Both the 1.81 H/VVS2 from Adiamor and 1.92 H/SI1 from WF are good "near-magic number" diamonds.
 
@TreeScientist, I like that 2carat adiamor one! Seems like the number maybe a little more important to me than her probably...lol! Though 1.9 wouldbbe fantastic as well. I will definitely request the ideascope images. How do the ideascope / aset images look to you for the 1.9 wf one? I see some inclusions superficially i think in the video.

How do the diamonds from adiamor compare to wf, bgd, or hpd in terms of sparkle, fire.. Ect? I know it's all part of the cut and that could be judged by the ideascope images?
 
synoptic said:
@TreeScientist, I like that 2carat adiamor one! Seems like the number maybe a little more important to me than her probably...lol! Though 1.9 wouldbbe fantastic as well. I will definitely request the ideascope images. How do the ideascope / aset images look to you for the 1.9 wf one? I see some inclusions superficially i think in the video.

How do the diamonds from adiamor compare to wf, bgd, or hpd in terms of sparkle, fire.. Ect? I know it's all part of the cut and that could be judged by the ideascope images?
Click to expand...

All of the WF ACAs will perform more or less the same. There will be small differences depending on the geometry, and there are some ACAs that are slightly better than others, but no-one will point at an ACA and say "that is a terribly cut diamond." The 1.92 from WF is nicely cut. I don't really like the inclusions in this one judging from the video alone, as there looks to be some sort of fuzzyness/haziness across the stone. Maybe a combination of the clouds and surface graining. Probably not something that would be noticeable in normal viewing situations though. With SI1s at this size, you're going to be making some compromises, and I think this one is decent for a near-2 carat SI1.

As for how diamonds from Adiamor/BGD/WF/HPD compare to each other, well, I think you're asking the wrong question. One brand is not necessarily superior to the other in terms of performance. There are great "branded" diamonds from each of the SuperIdeal vendors, and there are great non-branded diamonds on the open market through vendors like Adiamor, FourMine, Yadav, Enchanted Diamonds, ID Jewelry, etc, if you know what to look for. I don't judge diamonds by the brand (or lack thereof). I judge them by the cut. For two equally well-cut stones, it doesn't matter what brand is placed on them, they'll look the same.

Cut is best judged with the reflector scope images (IdealScope/H&A viewer/ASET) and by how the diamond looks to your eye. Ordering online, you need to rely on the reflector images to choose a diamond at first, and then you may need to return it if you're not happy with how it looks in person. Remember, ASET/IdealScope/etc. don't tell the whole story. They are 2D, static representations of light return from a 3-dimensional object. For equally well-cut diamonds, some people will prefer diamonds with a higher or lower crown, smaller or larger table, etc. If you choose a good diamond online using IdealScope/ASET images, and then you like the way it looks in person when it arrives, then you know you've found a keeper. :)
 
Also, don't worry if the 2 carat mark is important to you. That's okay. We all have our priorities when it comes to diamond shopping. Some people really like being able to say "It's a 2 carat" and that's totally fine. Heck, one of the things that I like about the diamond that I chose for my fiance (outside of the great cut) is that it's a .91 carat, as I was born in 91. Would anyone notice a visual difference between a .90, a .91, and a .92 carat diamond? No, of course not. But it's fun to say that it's a .91 carat. :)
 
I just realized that the 2.06 from Adiamor has a knot on the table. While it's small and not the grade-setting inclusion, it's generally best to avoid diamonds with knots. Sorry I didn't catch that at first.

This one might also be worth checking on. Right at the top end of your budget of 20K, and looks good from the photo!
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/1614238?

Would be worth checking with FourMine to get an IdealScope for it. :)
 
I might just reinforce that BGD, HPD and WF are super ideal vendors. They will provide diamonds of top cut quality. Additionally they will offer true hearts and arrow symmetry. The customer service, trade-in and buy back programs are top notch and typically not met by some of the virtual inventory dealers.

Additionally if buying a super ideal stone, you will receive an AGS graded stone. Many that value cut above all else considers this a real perk as AGS is the only lab that takes a 3D scan of the diamond and then determines an OBJECTIVE cut grade quality. Getting an AGS Ideal 0 (best available) cut ensures you truly have a well cut stone. Consequently the performance and symmetry images confirm greatness.

With GIA many stones are labeled as triple excellent (XXX) but few are actually excellent. To be clear, some would meet AGS0 certification if tested with AGS as opposed to GIA but you have to search and pay attention to find them. With super ideal you hit the easy button for a great performer. With GIA you search, request images (which usually aren't available), ship stones, determine with your eye, possibly accept or reject and start over.

Granted, we can help you find GIA stones that are likely to be top performers. I'm just letting you know the difference. Some positives of GIA include many retailers have access to the same virtual inventory so you might be able to play against each other to obtain better pricing. Also some believe GIA to be more strict on color grades (this isn't proven, just rumor) meaning a GIA I might be more white than an AGS I. Although all color grading is performed by humans so you will find some variation in both IMO. Also as already discussed you can have high, low or medium colors and that range can spread/widen as you go lower in color. Probably the biggest advantage of GIA is normally they can be cheaper than a super ideal.

It really depends what kind of a buying experience, customer service experience and budget/expectation ratio you have overall to which is best.
 
I like the WF 1.92
 
TreeScientist said:
I just realized that the 2.06 from Adiamor has a knot on the table. While it's small and not the grade-setting inclusion, it's generally best to avoid diamonds with knots. Sorry I didn't catch that at first.

This one might also be worth checking on. Right at the top end of your budget of 20K, and looks good from the photo!
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/1614238?

Would be worth checking with FourMine to get an IdealScope for it. :)
Click to expand...

Agree. Why mess with a knot? It may be okay but supplies are too bountiful to take unnecessary risk.

I'd be interested to see the performance images on this stone. Many super ideals with a high crown and high pavilion like this will produce less than perfect ASET's.

Noy to mention the funky GIA rounding and averaging could push one or both values higher.

For these reasons I'm not a fan of this geometry, unless an ASET proves otherwise.

If sticking with a higher 35 crown, a lower 40.6 pavilion will likely perform better. Or dropping the crown to 34.5 with a 40.7 to 40.8 pavilion will produce a gorgeous combo.

Nothing wrong with a 57 table (as 54-57 is the ideal range) but keep in mind the larger the table the less facet area to reflect light (sparkle/fire). A stone with same geometry and 55 table would have more fire for instance.
 
So maybe I should stick with hpd, bgd, and wf! For anybody's curiosity sake, I attached the ideascope images for the 2.06 h vs2.

So at this point, it seems like the options are wf 1.92 or wait. Not many votes for bgd advance ! So the good thing is, I'm not in an absolute rush to buy. Thank you @TreeScientist and @sledge!! SmartSelect_20180930-142659_Yahoo Mail.jpg
 
synoptic said:
So maybe I should stick with hpd, bgd, and wf! For anybody's curiosity sake, I attached the ideascope images for the 2.06 h vs2.

So at this point, it seems like the options are wf 1.92 or wait. Not many votes for bgd advance ! So the good thing is, I'm not in an absolute rush to buy. Thank you @TreeScientist and @sledge!! SmartSelect_20180930-142659_Yahoo Mail.jpg
Click to expand...

Those images look fantastic! But alas, it's best to pass on this stone due to the knot. Knots have the potential to come loose and fall out... Which leaves a cavity. Too many other good diamonds without detrimental inclusions to settle.

Would definitely be worth it to ask FourMine for an IdealScope of the 2.03 H/VVS2 I posted, but if the IdealScope image doesn't look good for that stone, then It would be worth waiting for something else to come along. I like the G/SI1 that I posted from WF if you can stretch your budget a bit (this is a great example of a clean SI1), but the 1.92 H/SI1 from WF really does look a bit hazy in the video. Again, as I said above, why settle for detrimental inclusions if there are better diamonds out there? If you're not in any rush, then take your time. After all, it's a large purchase, and you want to get the best for your money. :)
 
I bought my fiancee a BGD stone and have been very pleased with the performance and the superb customer service received.

I did not use BGD's advance services. From what I understand they guarantee a size range with color and clarity parameters you define ahead of time, and the stone is guaranteed to be a Signature series cut and H&A stone. Not a bad way to go if you cant find current stock and/or if something BGD doesn't have in the works and on the verge of being released.

WF offers the same service. In fact I helped someone here decide on a stone of nearly $100k. In her case, WF guaranteed an ACA cut and minimum color and clarity specs. If the actual rough procured to make her stone was a higher color or clarity the upgrades were free. If the rough didn't yield the minimums she could accept or reject and they would keep going until her minimums were met.

One thing I learned with the custom ACA program is that while it has many perks, you can't define specific parameters. For instance my personal preference is a stone of 54-56 table, 34.5 crown and 40.7-40.8 pavilion and LGF as near as 75 as possible. Point blank that is nitpicking a stone to death and my fiancee's current stone doesn't have those parameters. I learned these were my sweet spot after I purchased her stone. But with that said, because I am so nit picky I am probably not a good candidate for an Advance type program unless I was allowed to define certain parameters to a micro level. For instance a 34/40.8 or 35/40.6 or maybe even a 35/40.8 are all combos that can and do work for ACA and Signature series stones. But if I were to purchase again those other parameters aren't what I really want even though nothing is wrong with them and the reality is it would be very hard to discern the differences.

HPD is different in the fact they marry together angles and cuts using 3D technology to produce stones of equal brilliance while breaking normal 2D rules (higher crown and smaller table equals more fire). This is very interesting to me and something I want to see in person. So far I've seen videos and photos only but people rave about them.

If I were in your shoes, I'd get 3 stones as close in size, color and clarity as possible from BGD, WF and HPD. Also make sure they have similar proportions. Then see which talks the most to your eyes. At that point that is the vendor I would use and consider special ordering from if they have no available stock to meet your needs.

On a final note, as a guy I know we get in these my d*ck is bigger than yours contests. I'd encourage you to not fall prey to it. You can find maximum value in a 1.9x stone vs paying a premium to hit a weight that your eyes simply cant see. And let's face it, if the stone is 1.95ct it's really 2 carat to the layman.
 
I like this stone from HPD.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8104

I know it’s an SI2, but I’m not picky on clarity, and if I were in the market for a 2 carat plus stone, this would be a the top of the list. It’s only a little over $20k as well.
 
Looks just about perfect to me in terms of cut. That arrows shot is beautiful! And I agree, from the side view picture, the color doesn't look all that different from the H. Actually, I like the color on the I better. The H looks more like a brownish-yellow, whereas the I looks like an ivory/soft yellow.

You can wait for the input of others, but from the looks of it, you've found "the one." :)
 
I think so too!
 
Looks gorgeous. I'd have no problems pulling the trigger. Agree about the color being negligible. And the video....a-:silenced:'n-mazing!!

56 table, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 77 LGF's :love: :love: :love:
 
Love this stone! It looks incredible, and I agree the color difference is hardly noticeable, even when looking at them next to each other.
 
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