OEC lovers and experts please give opinions!

[GemFever]

Yup. Here is a link to something that's already sold, so I hope it's ok to post it here.

http://loupetroop.com/listings/rings-natural-diamond-center/1-dot-01ct-j-si1-old-european-cut-diamond-ring

 

[ForteKitty]

Aww thanks!!

You said the price is in the low 20s... For that price, I'd want it to be perfect. No doubt at all. I like the diamond, but I would need more pictures. Can you try to get some picture of it looking its worst?

I will post some more pictures...it doesn't look great in some of them, but I'm not sure any diamond would given my photography skills. I remember reading a post where you said your 9.9 can't take a bad picture. I am assuming that is because of its phenomenal cut right?

Okay...photos to come...

My 9.9 can't take a bad picture, but I'm not sure if being photogenic = phenomenal cut. I have H&A MRBs and an awesome oval that look terrible in pictures but is amazing in person. I also have some smaller oecs that look better in pictures than in person.

Based on the new pictures and also considering the price, I would probably keep looking. I think the diamond looks good, but $20k+ is a lot of money, and I would want the absolute best I can find. If this was in the $14k range, it'd be a different story.

 

[valmanin]

Fortekitty, thanks for your opinion. I am leaning in that direction. I feel like I would definitely like a smaller table, higher crown, etc. I just needed a reality check.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Well to me the central facets look like they are hazy, and you cannot see the individual facets. They also go dark all at once in most pics. I think its suffering from being too shallow. The light is not reflecting back at your eye under the table like it should, and is just leaking out. So I would pass.

I have attached a photo montage where I circled in red the areas under the table that look over dark and hazy, where in a well cut diamond you would see individual facets. When you say you could not see the "flower" under the table in person, that means indistict facets.

 

[valmanin]

Dreamer - Thanks for the illustrations! That really helps confirm what I thought I was seeing in person. The seller said that this stone "draws you in" since it is so big whereas most diamonds "reflect back at you". I am thinking that drawing you in is a BAD sign in a diamond.

I saw "mushy" in a lot of the pictures as well. In person though the effect is that the diamond doesn't shoot as much fire and sparkle (technical term I know). Also, I didn't see a lot of broad flashes of color and pastels that I expected to see. I started to wonder if I was expecting too much and those beautiful pastels you see in OECs are just captured in pictures and not something you see in real life.

Anyway, thank you all for your help! Onward...

 

[backwardsandinheels]

I know you've moved on, but keep in mind that some of these big honkers could be recut a bit to enhance or fix something that is off and then you could end up with something great. I was looking at this stone in that way because the rest of the faceting looked good. But specs have to be right for that. Are you beholden to a time frame? Good luck on this search.

 

[valmanin]

I have a question.

I know you have to see old cuts in person. However, in your experience seeing lots of stones in photos then IRL is there a particular range you try to stay within during the evaluation phase...mostly in terms of depth %, table size, etc.?? I am wondering because there is another OEC I have had my eye on but it is also on the shallower side (what's up with me and the shallow). In pics it does not look to affect performance etc. It has a good spread. But, I am wondering if I need to stay away from the diamonds that have a good spread because doesn't that automatically mean it won't have a high crown, small table etc.?

 

[valmanin]

I know you've moved on, but keep in mind that some of these big honkers could be recut a bit to enhance or fix something that is off and then you could end up with something great. I was looking at this stone in that way because the rest of the faceting looked good. But specs have to be right for that. Are you beholden to a time frame? Good luck on this search.

Hi! I did think about that, but at this time the price sort of precludes that. I do feel like I could get the price down especially with the discussion about a recut, but not sure if I could get it down enough to make sense. Also, given the fact that it is shallow, my sense is that I would lose too much weight.

Am I wrong? Does anyone think I should proceed in that direction?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Dreamer - Thanks for the illustrations! That really helps confirm what I thought I was seeing in person. The seller said that this stone "draws you in" since it is so big whereas most diamonds "reflect back at you". I am thinking that drawing you in is a BAD sign in a diamond.

I saw "mushy" in a lot of the pictures as well. In person though the effect is that the diamond doesn't shoot as much fire and sparkle (technical term I know). Also, I didn't see a lot of broad flashes of color and pastels that I expected to see. I started to wonder if I was expecting too much and those beautiful pastels you see in OECs are just captured in pictures and not something you see in real life.

Anyway, thank you all for your help! Onward...

I think "draws you in" is just a selling tactic in this case.

In real life, the type of much you see looks like you mentions: just hazy indistinct faceting and also not much broad flash. In my experience with old cuts, you can see pastels in some situations when the envornment has colors to reflect back in the stone. For example, when you are wearing a pastel shirt, or your have pastel skin, or you are standing under a tree with diffuse lighting. But diamonds won't always look just like you see on PS. Many people photoshop for the artistic side of photography, and also pictures are taken in just those places where one should expect to see colors! Instead, what you want to see is nice flashy patterning accross the whole face of the stone as well being able to see t he lovely faceting at arms length. If the stone is too shallow like this one, the light just leaks out and you don't get nice flash.

Here is a link to GemFever's LoupeTroop listing where she posted some videos of a new diamond she bought. If you look you can see how a well cut OEC can look -- nice and bright and flashy. There is also a video in ForteKitty's thread that similarly shows how a nicely cut OEC can perform -- bold chunky flashed accross the whole face.

LInks bottom right: http://loupetroop.com/listings/earrings/silver-and-garnet-earrings
Link half way down: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-amazing-holy-grail-9-9mm-oec.178975/page-10']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-amazing-holy-grail-9-9mm-oec.178975/page-10[/URL]

Recutting a shallow stone would likely result in a major loss of spread. Its a better option with a deep stone.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have a question.

I know you have to see old cuts in person. However, in your experience seeing lots of stones in photos then IRL is there a particular range you try to stay within during the evaluation phase...mostly in terms of depth %, table size, etc.?? I am wondering because there is another OEC I have had my eye on but it is also on the shallower side (what's up with me and the shallow). In pics it does not look to affect performance etc. It has a good spread. But, I am wondering if I need to stay away from the diamonds that have a good spread because doesn't that automatically mean it won't have a high crown, small table etc.?

For me personally its all about the combination of proportions. A shallow stone can work find if the table is very very small -- say around 45%, and if the crown angle is sufficiently shallow as well. Kelpie's e-ring diamond is like this and the proportions work. Shallow also works a little better when the lower havles are longer in my opinion. But beyond that, I personally am leery of old cuts with a depth under 60%. I am also leery when the depth is greater than about 68%. You can find stones that work below or above those markers, but its more difficult. Your eyes can usually detect the issues with over deep and over shallow though, if you know what to look for.

 

[Mara]

I love the pattern on that stone big time but I also agree the under table facets look a bit lazy. Not sure how much in the 20's it is, aka 20k or 28k but for a 9.7mm for 20k, if there's room for recutting it might be a good option as it can be harder to find those 9.5mm stones than say a 8mm stone. But that's more of a commitment and a risk and not sure that's what you want. But I really like the pattern overall...too bad on those center facets.

 

[valmanin]

Thanks Dreamer for your analysis and explanation. It has been extremely helpful!

Mara, I know...bummer that it is not crisper! Oh well! I don't feel like I have the experience/knowledge at this point to take on a project like recutting...especially with the price.

I have a few other stones I am considering and have been for a while. I would love to get feedback and opinions on them...they are not local so they are pictures/videos. I am worried about posting them here though. Any idea how to handle that?

 

[ruby59]

Just searching around I cam across a big 4 carat OEC diamond. Price is almost to good to be true when compared with other places I have seen. - Low $20,000's. Setting is unbelievably gorgeous. Diamond - I am not so sure about. Does show considerable tint in the platinum setting. Pictures look OK but I have no clue. From what I can understand about the depth, it looks deep. Wonder if it might be a candidate for a recut.

Do not want to post it here because of the lurkers. My last suggestion sold. Any of the experts have an ebay account?

It may be a real dog or you may be able to work with it. EGLUS small card describes it as 4 carat VS K.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Ruby can you download the pictures and post only those?

 

[valmanin]

I just cropped out all evidence of the ring for the diamond I posted earlier. Can you do that?

 

[valmanin]

Okay...like I said...movin on...

So, I have been watching this one for a while because I could get it for a good deal. But, it is any good??? As little as I know about OEC's, I know even less about cushions. What do you all think? Does this look like an antique cut stone or what??? It is under 4 carats, M, good clarity, 9.5mm X 8.5 mm. This person does not take good pictures. Are the pics fuzzy? Is the stone dirty? What's up? I can't get her to send me any more pictures. She is nice enough but seems a bit...ummm...overwhelmed. She does not normally sell diamonds. She has perfect ratings selling other things.

Thoughts???

 

[GemFever]

It does look dirty. Probably has potential, but is there no photo from the front? I wonder if the culet is considerably off center. Also looks kind of brownish, so not sure about color. Cushions are cool though

 

[valmanin]

The fullest frontal shot is ...

 

[GemFever]

I think it has potential and could be worth seeing. Is there a solid return policy?

But you have to ask yourself if you're really interested in a cushion in the first place. If you were looking for a round OEC, a cushion would have a very different feel, you know? But in a nice setting, it could be quite

 

[valmanin]

I think I could love a cushion. I think I could fall in love with either...if it was a nice specimen of its type. This one makes me nervous bc the pictures are bad and hard to tell. But, there is something about it...

 

[backwardsandinheels]

Sheesh oh boy those pics. Dirrrty. Not sure what to say. Could she scrub it up a little and try again??

 

[valmanin]

I know. VERY dirty! I talked to her for a long time a few weeks ago and she is a very nice lady but does not know a lot about diamonds at all...not what she usually sells. Anyway, she never sent me more pictures but she did call me.

I am just wondering if the stone has promise despite being dirty and poorly photographed???

 

[GemFever]

I would echo what ForteKitty said earlier -- for such a big purchase, make sure you're getting exactly what you want.

If I personally were looking for a cushion, I would not want it to be elongated, but that's personal preference. I like the faceting in the center, and I think it may have fun kozibe going on (the big, bubbly, OMC kind of kozibe). The table doesn't look that small, but it may be ok if the stone is still bright.

Can you buy it and look at it? If you are in the US and won't have to deal with customs and such, it may be worth taking a look.

 

[valmanin]

I would echo what ForteKitty said earlier -- for such a big purchase, make sure you're getting exactly what you want.

If I personally were looking for a cushion, I would not want it to be elongated, but that's personal preference. I like the faceting in the center, and I think it may have fun kozibe going on (the big, bubbly, OMC kind of kozibe). The table doesn't look that small, but it may be ok if the stone is still bright.

Can you buy it and look at it? If you are in the US and won't have to deal with customs and such, it may be worth taking a look.

I agree on the elongated thing. I didn't realize that 8.5 X 9.5 would read as elongated but now that I have drawn it out with my ruler I see what you mean.

Also, yes, I would prefer an OEC, but I have seen some AMAZING antique cushions/OMCs on here that I would LOVE to be mine. But, now that you bring it up I realize that the ones I like are very square in dimension or just slightly elongated and set east/west.

Hey! At least I am ruling stuff out!!!

Thanks Gemfever!

 

[Mara]

The cushion is visually elongated, you can see it in the pics. The patterning looks very pretty but cushions look different than OEC's so just make sure it's what you want. Is there a return policy?

 

[valmanin]

The cushion is visually elongated, you can see it in the pics. The patterning looks very pretty but cushions look different than OEC's so just make sure it's what you want. Is there a return policy?

Hi Mara! Yep, I can see it too. I was having a hard time seeing through my desire to get a deal! They do have a great return policy, but I really don't want an elongated cushion...so that rules that one out! Reality check...

 

[ruby59]

http://www.faycullen.com/Certified-Engagement-Rings/8776/

No clue if the diamond is ok or it is just bad pictures or it could be a candidate for a recut. Setting sure is pretty, though.

 

[GemFever]

The cushion is visually elongated, you can see it in the pics. The patterning looks very pretty but cushions look different than OEC's so just make sure it's what you want. Is there a return policy?

Hi Mara! Yep, I can see it too. I was having a hard time seeing through my desire to get a deal! They do have a great return policy, but I really don't want an elongated cushion...so that rules that one out! Reality check...

That's what PS is here for, some much needed reality checks sometimes. I remember when I waiting to get my OMC earrings, I came across an old thread in PS discussing another paid of OMC earrings, and I freaked out that they were the same pair (despite being in totally different settings). The first response I got was (very nicely put, of course!): dude, yours are cushions and these are rounds, chill out

It's part of the fun of getting super excited about diamonds I hope you find your perfect stone soon!

 

[valmanin]

, Gemfever...that is awesome! That could happen to me easily!

I guess that cushion isn't going to magically reorganize itself into a square shape huh? I must have thought it would.. But, the deal! Oh the deal!!!

Anyway, Ruby, that looks interesting. I would like to hear other's opinions. Looks kind of faded out in the center.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I don't think that cushion will look like some of the well cut antiques we have seen. The table is a little too large for my taste. The problem that creates is a very marked malese cross in the center (at best) or a big old widow into the stone (at worst). I suspect the stone would have good life from the periphery, but could look glassy under the table. If you want a very rustic antique cushion I think that is an option worth considering if the price is good and there is a return policy -- but even then tread with caution! I know of at least two people who have made large purchases on ebay and had a very hard time getting their refunds despite a return policy. SO all that said... do you want a rustic cushion?