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OEC Experts needed

Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
187
Hi everybody,

I have the choice between two OEC diamonds. One I will be able to see before buying (or actually biding because it's part of an auction in my hometown). The other is from an ebay posting (600km away) which I only have requested a video for (which I haven't received yet).

Auction Diamond OEC
2.58 ct
8.77x8.94x5.29
VS1
N/O
total depth: 59.8%
pav. depth: 41%
table size: 54%
crown height: 16.5%
Culet: large
Fluoresence: slighty

Ebay Diamond OEC
2.36 ct
8.73x8.93x4.82
SI1
M
total depth: 54.6%
pav. depth: 37.5%
table size: 44%
crown height: 14.5%
Culet: large
Fluoresence: none

Is the Ebay Diamond terrible from the numbers? I know numbers are not very important with old cuts. But maybe the numbers are so bad I shouldn't even consider it. It definitley is a spready cut which isn't really attractive?

Thank you!
 
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leukolenos

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
821
I don't think you can judge them by the numbers. It may or may not be attractive, some of the spready ones are fine but others (many) are most definitely not. Is the Ebay stone returnable? Have you been able to evaluate the auction stone in person?
 

anangel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
379
You need pictures. Too many variables on old cuts to judge them by numbers alone. =)2
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
27,731
I definitely would not buy sight unseen. Have you seen OECS IRL? Have you seen lower colored diamonds IRL? Do you know what you are looking for in terms of faceting and shape and do you like a big culet, etc? You really cannot judge OECs by numbers. As @leukolenos wrote there might be generalities but there are some pretty OECs that defy all numbers. I prefer a deeper OEC usually but really cannot rule anything in or out without seeing it in person.

At the very least you need videos. And you should try to view as many OECs as possible before judging any contenders. To get an idea of what you want and need in an old cut and what you just do not like.

Good luck and share any videos you receive with us so we can weigh in with more thoughts for you.
 

Dizzie

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Messages
373
Hi, you have received some solid advice on the fact that number do not give an answer with old cuts. May be just a couple of reasons why it is so:
As you can imagine, old cut has been cut many year ago and at that time mostly by hand. There is very little uniformity in the cut from stone to stone. The cut on the specific stone is decisive for its beauty.
Numbers can sound right or wrong, but in the end it will all depend on how exactly master cutter many years ago has positions a facet after a facet on this specific stone (and sometimes on inclusions).
BTW, considering you are looking at the lower colored diamonds, please make sure that you are comfortable with their color in multiple lighting conditions. Those babies can be crazy chameleon - like. The tint (yellow vs brown vs grey) will also be decisive for attractiveness of the specific stone
 

Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
187
I have seen OECs in real life and fallen in love. I also don't have problems with collr as I can't afford a hgh colored OEC

It's good to hear that at least some spready cuts are fine!

I have requested a video and hope the seller can provide me with one. Because it's a peivate seller I don't think he will let me return it, but I could get a better price on it. Buy obviosly I'm ata great risk for getting a dud. I will wait dor the videos and try and share them with you.

I will evaluate the auction stone tomorrow (excited). I live in Munich and there are few antique shops with each one or two old cut diamonds in their inventory so I have seen some but I haven't had several to evaluate under a loupe and different lighting conditions.

I know everybody talks about the facetting but with my limited selection and budget I will be happy with any old cut diamond that sparkles and doesn't have a lot of light leakage.

The first time I looked at an old cut diamond I was totally turned off my the huge "hole" you could see when you looked straight onto it. No I'm not sure if this was a fish eye or more due to the larger culet? Then I had another experience with a diamond with a large culet and I loved it (the stone was just too small for what I have in mind).

What are positives on a large culet? What are negatives?

@Dizzie that is a great point to determine if the diamond has a brown, yellow grey tint. Which is the most favourable? Or is that totally personal taste?
Thank you =)2
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
3,786
Also, there are different facet patterns. Such as checker board, pinwheel and flowery - to name a few as I am not an expert. Personally, I prefer the flowery looking facet pattern. There's many variables to think about. Take a look at Loveaffairdiamonds.com as Erica posts many videos as well as an explanation of what you're looking at. Also, jewelsbygrace.com.
 

anangel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
379
Just one more thought since you said you couldn't "afford a high colored OEC"... You're looking at some pretty large stones- please don't let carat weight be your driving factor on this purchase, color, or clarity preferences. My experience, and take it at face value, is that it is better to have a slightly smaller stone that you are in love with than a huge rock that you bought because it was big and the price was right.
 

Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
187
@Queenie60 Thank you! I'm an avid follower of LAD and jewelsbygrace =)2

@anangel Thank you for reminding me of that. It just happens that these two stones are the ones that are readily available :) But you are right I shouldn't rush into a purchase just because I think oh what a great deal on a 2.5 carat diamond!

This Video is also a good reminder for me to not blindly buy a good priced stone off ebay :lol:

It's just so hard to source beautiful old cuts in germany. I have thought about going with a US Vendor but I read about so many people actually not settling with their first OEC but taking a few attempts to find the right one for them and I can't resell a old cut diamond from LAD or Jewels by Grace for a good price in Germany.

When I get a video in the next few days on the Ebay stone I will share it here!
 

Dizzie

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Messages
373
I have seen OECs in real life and fallen in love. I also don't have problems with collr as I can't afford a hgh colored OEC

It's good to hear that at least some spready cuts are fine!

I have requested a video and hope the seller can provide me with one. Because it's a peivate seller I don't think he will let me return it, but I could get a better price on it. Buy obviosly I'm ata great risk for getting a dud. I will wait dor the videos and try and share them with you.

I will evaluate the auction stone tomorrow (excited). I live in Munich and there are few antique shops with each one or two old cut diamonds in their inventory so I have seen some but I haven't had several to evaluate under a loupe and different lighting conditions.

I know everybody talks about the facetting but with my limited selection and budget I will be happy with any old cut diamond that sparkles and doesn't have a lot of light leakage.

The first time I looked at an old cut diamond I was totally turned off my the huge "hole" you could see when you looked straight onto it. No I'm not sure if this was a fish eye or more due to the larger culet? Then I had another experience with a diamond with a large culet and I loved it (the stone was just too small for what I have in mind).

What are positives on a large culet? What are negatives?

@Dizzie that is a great point to determine if the diamond has a brown, yellow grey tint. Which is the most favourable? Or is that totally personal taste?
Thank you =)2
In general spread is not bad, however all good things have to be taken in measures. Once there is too much spread, the fish eye effect is becoming readily visible. Possibly this is what you saw in the first stone.

Large culet is a matter of taste. I personally do not like extra large ones. I like them visible, but not disturbing IYKWIM

Now tint is a different story. Typically grey tint is considered negative in the trade. Yellow is rather commonly accepted on the other hand. Brown seem to be a matter of taste. Some love it, some hate it.
 

Dizzie

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Messages
373
@Queenie60 Thank you! I'm an avid follower of LAD and jewelsbygrace =)2

@anangel Thank you for reminding me of that. It just happens that these two stones are the ones that are readily available :) But you are right I shouldn't rush into a purchase just because I think oh what a great deal on a 2.5 carat diamond!

This Video is also a good reminder for me to not blindly buy a good priced stone off ebay :lol:

It's just so hard to source beautiful old cuts in germany. I have thought about going with a US Vendor but I read about so many people actually not settling with their first OEC but taking a few attempts to find the right one for them and I can't resell a old cut diamond from LAD or Jewels by Grace for a good price in Germany.

When I get a video in the next few days on the Ebay stone I will share it here!
I totally know what you mean. When I was sourcing my Indian Summer (9 mm cape diamond) I had to go through a vendor in the end. I was lucky to find a vendor in Europe who did all the legwork for me.

However just a small word of caution. Please be sure that you are loving that size on your hand. I got my diamond about a year ago. It took me ages to get it sourced and was a major effort for the vendor, because I was looking for a unicorn in terms of well cut transitional and they are few and between.

This diamond is everything I could have wished in term of cut and size. And yet, nearly a year later, it still feels way too large on my hand. I am actually considering selling it sometime soon to downgrade. Well, I am mulling between resetting it and downgrading, actually, which makes the situation even worth :roll:D:lol:
 
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Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
187
@Dizzie I'm coming across the same problem. I want the finger coverage and look of an around 2 -2.5 carat diamond on my size 6.5 finger. But when I try on smaller rings I actually also like them. Maybe I should test wear a bigger cheaper ring and see how I feel about it. And maybe pricescope and instagram have spoiled me and inserted a irrational desire for a "bigger" diamond. But I will set any stone very low for practibility so it won't be in a tiffany setting.

Thank you for sharing your experience! Do you mind sharing the vendors name? And how will you decide? Does the obsession with diamonds not stop after you finally purchase one? It is so time consuming :D
 

anangel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
379
I don't know if this helps, but I have a size 6 finger with an R diamond that has an almost 7 mm spread (6.96 if I remember the cert right). It's an AVR- old euro charm, new cutting for the best light return and face up size.
ADCF9F70-583F-44DD-BB24-7643BE4A6704.jpeg B138E349-C777-480B-9552-2FD342FF7020.jpeg
 

Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
187
@anangel what a beautiful ring!

I just called the auction house and I will only be able to view the ring/diamond starting from the 14th March.
Here is a pic of the 1.6 cushion cut ring and and the 2.58 OEC ring. Does the cushion cut have a fish eye?
20190228_110825.jpg 20190228_110809.jpg

The ebay seller also sent me some pictures but I most say the diamond doesn't look great! What do you guys think? Would it be worth 4000 Dollars? Looks awfully like the bad example that Jonathan shows in the video posted above. Maybe I will get a video over the weekend!
20190228_081457.jpg 20190228_080630.jpg

20190228_080600.jpg


What I also wonder about is the value of a company like Victor Barbone. I mean this ring is retailing for almost 30 000 dollars and the diamond just isn't a beauty. Or maybe it is and I have no idea? Is that part in the middle what you would call a fish eye?
Screenshot_20190228-111511_Chrome.jpg
 

anangel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
379
I would recommend contacting Good Old Gold our Love Affair Diamonds if you’re having trouble getting good pictures to judge your diamonds. How are you supposed to spend thousands of dollars on a diamond when you can’t see the details and how they perform in different lights?
Chances are if you explain your situation to one of the vendors they can be somewhat flexible on the return policy since you’re over seas. Just a thought... no one wants you to end up with a dud
 

Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
187
@Lovesparklesparle My budget is 6000 Dollars.

@anangel thank you for your advice. The prices in Europe old cut diamonds are just significantly lower than in the US. I think I will see what I can find and look at (with my own eyes) locally and than if I can't find anything maybe I'll just book a trip to the US end of the year and make an appointment wth GOG or another vendor. Or a weekend trip to London in the near future is maybe an option.

I hope when I have better photo/video material you will give me your opinions =)2
 

Lovesparklesparle

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
393
6k is a good budget but not for a top tier 2-2.5ct stone. You may need to either increase your budget or manage your expectations.
 

Austina

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Messages
3,450
@Lovesparklesparle My budget is 6000 Dollars.

@anangel thank you for your advice. The prices in Europe old cut diamonds are just significantly lower than in the US. I think I will see what I can find and look at (with my own eyes) locally and than if I can't find anything maybe I'll just book a trip to the US end of the year and make an appointment wth GOG or another vendor. Or a weekend trip to London in the near future is maybe an option.

I hope when I have better photo/video material you will give me your opinions =)2
I went to a old cut specialist in London’s Hatton Garden, not only did I find their prices significantly more expensive than OWD, I didn’t find the diamonds as good.
 

RainbowSeekingGoat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2019
Messages
13
What I also wonder about is the value of a company like Victor Barbone. I mean this ring is retailing for almost 30 000 dollars and the diamond just isn't a beauty. Or maybe it is and I have no idea?
I have followed VB for quite a while on Instagram because their photography is just amazing but they seem to care more about the style of how the stones are set then the quality of the stones. They do beautiful editorial photography for almost every ring and styled them differently for the pictures on their website/ Instagram but the stones themselves are not photographed as well when compared to their fashion photos. I think the name is coming up mostly because of really soft, romantic and Pinterest worthy images they got but less of the quality of the stones. (That being said, I have saved a lot of their wonderful images for inspiration.. :sun:)
 

Dizzie

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Messages
373
@Lovesparklesparle My budget is 6000 Dollars.

@anangel thank you for your advice. The prices in Europe old cut diamonds are just significantly lower than in the US. I think I will see what I can find and look at (with my own eyes) locally and than if I can't find anything maybe I'll just book a trip to the US end of the year and make an appointment wth GOG or another vendor. Or a weekend trip to London in the near future is maybe an option.

I hope when I have better photo/video material you will give me your opinions =)2
Of all the options you posted, I liked 2.58 from an auction house best. The one from Ebay looks disorganized in terms of facets. As for the cushion from an auction house - it will likely have massive light leakage issue
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
2,854
Of all the options you posted, I liked 2.58 from an auction house best. The one from Ebay looks disorganized in terms of facets. As for the cushion from an auction house - it will likely have massive light leakage issue
I agree - that 2.58 looks worth a second or third look.
 

Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
187
@anangel I don't have any expectations. I'm aware that there isn't the magical cheap but beautiful 2.5 carat diamond waiting for me out there :D I will have to make compromises =)2

@Austina thank you for sharing your experience - then I won't take a trip to London!

@RainbowSeekingGoat yes they are so good at making you really want an old cut with the feeling they create!

@Dizzie @foxinsox Thank you for your opinion! I will update this thread in two weeks with some closer up videos and pictures of that stone.
 

737lizakg

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
206
Because you are in Europe you might have luck going to the cash for gold shops. If you go in and ask nicely, they may have a great deal for you. I've been offered a 3.34ct L/M clean Omc for €7k, which I thought was pretty good! It just takes some legwork.
 

Dizzie

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Messages
373
Because you are in Europe you might have luck going to the cash for gold shops. If you go in and ask nicely, they may have a great deal for you. I've been offered a 3.34ct L/M clean Omc for €7k, which I thought was pretty good! It just takes some legwork.
Did you buy it? I would love to see some handshots ;)2
 

Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
187
@737lizakg that sounds so exciting! I did stumble upon a nice cushion cut 1.13 M SI1 in the original antique platinum setting for 2600 Euros - about 2900 Dollars in such a cash for gold shop. But I still need to get a feeling what price really is a good deal. Maybe I will find some time to just go into a few cash for gold shops and ask even if I don't see anything in the window. Thank you for the tip!
 

elliefire99

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2018
Messages
559
I hope the auction works out for you! I guess one advantage to being in Europe, where big diamonds and old cuts are less popular is that you will have less competition!

If they ship internationally, Ivy and Rose/MyDiamondZone often have a few 2ct-ish diamonds in the $6,000 range...
 

kipari

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
1,361
Please keep in mind that the cut makes a diamond beautiful. I have seen tons and tons here (France and Germany) and the cut is awful most of the time. Those stones are not certed either, so you really don't know what you'll be getting. A price comp is impossible if you don't know the true specs.In diamonds clear inclusions can fool non professionals and chips can be hidden (not intentionally ) by the setting. You are not in the P clarity terrain really fast. Which is no problem if you love the stone /piece but value wise it's quite a bummer.


I'm watching local auctions as well for fun. I'd buy only if you love the overall look of the whole antique piece. Well cut high quality stones are usually super pricey in high end stores à la Victor Barbone.
Generally speaking for choice /options I'm with @Austina
 

Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
187
@kipari thank you for sharing your experience! I will be very careful not to buy a terrible cut diamond :)

@Dizzie thank you for finding that diamond for me. I'm so tempted to order it but I can't exchange it from germany. I will loose 20% tax on that purchase if the O/P color turns out to be too much for me. But I have been preparing my boyfriend that we will be taking a trip to the US in the next months so I can go to the dealers personally and pick the right diamond - if I don't get lucky in Europe before the trip
 
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