Obama to announce tighter gun laws this week

[packrat]

No one answered my question. Why does anyone need to legally own 86 guns?

So they can provision entire not-so-small ultra right wing militias antithetical to the federal government, and unlawfully occupy a federal installation while wearing camo and declaring loudly how peaceful they are.

Dammit Ksinger! Don't spill the beans! That's EXACTLY what we're all planning.

You guys just don't know it. We don't want you to know it. We want to keep you all unsuspecting and unawares and then BAM!

Jesus. Really?

C'mon.

The real answer is: B/c my husband wants to. He likes them. He enjoys them for what they are. They're not all the same, they each are different and they each perform different. What does it matter? The ONLY thing that is different than any other collector of ANYTHING is what the specific item DOES. And that scares people.

And again, why can we not have a real discussion w/out making it out as per usual that gun owners are complete ****wads and the worst thing on the face of the ****ing planet? And penis shit? Really? Again. That will get us really far. Why do we even bother w/threads like this? Honestly? To bash gun owners like the ****wads and worthless ****ing degenerates apparently you think we are?

 

[telephone89]

So they can provision entire not-so-small ultra right wing militias antithetical to the federal government, and unlawfully occupy a federal installation while wearing camo and declaring loudly how peaceful they are.

Dammit Ksinger! Don't spill the beans! That's EXACTLY what we're all planning.

You guys just don't know it. We don't want you to know it. We want to keep you all unsuspecting and unawares and then BAM!

Jesus. Really?

C'mon.

The real answer is: B/c my husband wants to. He likes them. He enjoys them for what they are. They're not all the same, they each are different and they each perform different. What does it matter? The ONLY thing that is different than any other collector of ANYTHING is what the specific item DOES. And that scares people.

And again, why can we not have a real discussion w/out making it out as per usual that gun owners are complete ****wads and the worst thing on the face of the ****ing planet? And penis shit? Really? Again. That will get us really far. Why do we even bother w/threads like this? Honestly? To bash gun owners like the ****wads and worthless ****ing degenerates apparently you think we are?

I believe ksinger was poking fun at the Oregon 'militia'
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/05/oregon-wildlife-militia-standoff-power-cut-off
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/wtf-is-happening-in-the-oregon-militia-standoff-explained-20160103

eta - if not, well, its pretty similar anyways..

 

[redwood66]

No one answered my question. Why does anyone need to legally own 86 guns?

So they can provision entire not-so-small ultra right wing militias antithetical to the federal government, and unlawfully occupy a federal installation while wearing camo and declaring loudly how peaceful they are.

Dammit Ksinger! Don't spill the beans! That's EXACTLY what we're all planning.

You guys just don't know it. We don't want you to know it. We want to keep you all unsuspecting and unawares and then BAM!

Jesus. Really?

C'mon.

The real answer is: B/c my husband wants to. He likes them. He enjoys them for what they are. They're not all the same, they each are different and they each perform different. What does it matter? The ONLY thing that is different than any other collector of ANYTHING is what the specific item DOES. And that scares people.

And again, why can we not have a real discussion w/out making it out as per usual that gun owners are complete ****wads and the worst thing on the face of the ****ing planet? And penis shit? Really? Again. That will get us really far. Why do we even bother w/threads like this? Honestly? To bash gun owners like the ****wads and worthless ****ing degenerates apparently you think we are?

Actually packrat I have to just laugh at the comments they make. Nothing we say will ever change their minds because they have no idea about anything we have said. They probably have not experienced the criminal element on a daily basis. Maybe some have but very few. Guns are scary and go off for no reason shooting innocent people. Hell I better go home and check the house to see how many holes I have in my walls since I left this morning.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Hell I better go home and check the house to see how many holes I have in my walls since I left this morning.

They better not have hit that beautious diamond of yours that is bound for reset!

I cannot add anything other than what Redwood, Packrat and other pro-gun posters have stated, and agree that this is always a dead-end topic for this forum.

 

[House Cat]

I am SO happy about the 500 million dollars proposed to boost Mental Health Services. Maybe beds will be available when people in who are in crisis need them!

 

[the_mother_thing]

Interesting new (days old) study regarding the association of background checks and gun related deaths.

http://crimeresearch.org/2016/01/new-cprc-research-do-background-checks-on-private-gun-transfers-help-stop-mass-public-shootings/

 

[ksinger]

No one answered my question. Why does anyone need to legally own 86 guns?

So they can provision entire not-so-small ultra right wing militias antithetical to the federal government, and unlawfully occupy a federal installation while wearing camo and declaring loudly how peaceful they are.

Dammit Ksinger! Don't spill the beans! That's EXACTLY what we're all planning.

You guys just don't know it. We don't want you to know it. We want to keep you all unsuspecting and unawares and then BAM!

Jesus. Really?

C'mon.

The real answer is: B/c my husband wants to. He likes them. He enjoys them for what they are. They're not all the same, they each are different and they each perform different. What does it matter? The ONLY thing that is different than any other collector of ANYTHING is what the specific item DOES. And that scares people.

And again, why can we not have a real discussion w/out making it out as per usual that gun owners are complete ****wads and the worst thing on the face of the ****ing planet? And penis shit? Really? Again. That will get us really far. Why do we even bother w/threads like this? Honestly? To bash gun owners like the ****wads and worthless ****ing degenerates apparently you think we are?

Actually packrat I have to just laugh at the comments they make. Nothing we say will ever change their minds because they have no idea about anything we have said. They probably have not experienced the criminal element on a daily basis. Maybe some have but very few. Guns are scary and go off for no reason shooting innocent people. Hell I better go home and check the house to see how many holes I have in my walls since I left this morning.

Right back atcha Redwood.

I personally enjoy how short both your memories apparently are, and how you assume that anyone who disagrees with you, or favors gun control of any kind, must automatically be a benighted anti-gun zealot. Not the case, but keep thinking that if it makes you feel good. What I am is a gun owner married to a former gun dealer, both of whom have plenty of first hand experience and observations about guns and the gun world over the years (not to mention living in the land of Tim McVeigh and Elohim City), and who now disagree with you on a few things. Shocking, I know, but it happens.

And Packrat, my post wasn't about you, or directed at you. Sometimes they're not.

 

[redwood66]

ksinger my post said not all. And I respect your opinion. But my posts were about criminals and gangs, both of which I have a lifetime of experience with. I would appreciate the same respect toward that opinion as well.

And I am not sure where I said anyone was an anti-gun zealot.

 

[kenny]

... I am not sure where I said anyone was an anti-gun zealot.

I am.
You may say that about me.

 

[packrat]

I am SO happy about the 500 million dollars proposed to boost Mental Health Services. Maybe beds will be available when people in who are in crisis need them!

That's wonderful. Would they be able to open some of the Mental Health Institutes that they have closed? Ours is one of the last remaining, I want to say in the entire state, and Branstad has talked for a while about shutting it down.

 

[redwood66]

... I am not sure where I said anyone was an anti-gun zealot.

I am.
You may say that about me.

Careful I may say alot of things about you.

 

[packrat]

No one answered my question. Why does anyone need to legally own 86 guns?

So they can provision entire not-so-small ultra right wing militias antithetical to the federal government, and unlawfully occupy a federal installation while wearing camo and declaring loudly how peaceful they are.

Dammit Ksinger! Don't spill the beans! That's EXACTLY what we're all planning.

You guys just don't know it. We don't want you to know it. We want to keep you all unsuspecting and unawares and then BAM!

Jesus. Really?

C'mon.

The real answer is: B/c my husband wants to. He likes them. He enjoys them for what they are. They're not all the same, they each are different and they each perform different. What does it matter? The ONLY thing that is different than any other collector of ANYTHING is what the specific item DOES. And that scares people.

And again, why can we not have a real discussion w/out making it out as per usual that gun owners are complete ****wads and the worst thing on the face of the ****ing planet? And penis shit? Really? Again. That will get us really far. Why do we even bother w/threads like this? Honestly? To bash gun owners like the ****wads and worthless ****ing degenerates apparently you think we are?

Actually packrat I have to just laugh at the comments they make. Nothing we say will ever change their minds because they have no idea about anything we have said. They probably have not experienced the criminal element on a daily basis. Maybe some have but very few. Guns are scary and go off for no reason shooting innocent people. Hell I better go home and check the house to see how many holes I have in my walls since I left this morning.

Right back atcha Redwood.

I personally enjoy how short both your memories apparently are, and how you assume that anyone who disagrees with you, or favors gun control of any kind, must automatically be a benighted anti-gun zealot. Not the case, but keep thinking that if it makes you feel good. What I am is a gun owner married to a former gun dealer, both of whom have plenty of first hand experience and observations about guns and the gun world over the years (not to mention living in the land of Tim McVeigh and Elohim City), and who now disagree with you on a few things. Shocking, I know, but it happens.

And Packrat, my post wasn't about you, or directed at you. Sometimes they're not.

I hadn't forgotten your background. I didn't think you were an anti-gun zealot. I understand that we disagree w/some things, it happens, not everyone who shares common things agrees on everything. Hell, I disagree w/*JD* about a lot of this shit--he's faaaar more right leaning than I, tho he's not Trump-Right leaning thank gawd, he's not Stuck in the Middle like me. (clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right..) It was irritating b/c it seemed snarky and just something that would incite others, and not a comment that would advance any sort of discussion we might be trying to have. I didn't think specifically it was about me and JD like Oh the R family is a buncha whackadoos, I took it as I am part of that group, so I was reacting as part of that group. It's frustrating, and I voiced my frustrations.

 

[Matata]

And the poor maligned snowflakes at the NRA have fired a warning salvo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgr2lj7jwr4
So much I want to say but have learned that one of the marks of maturity is to know when to keep quiet.

 

[packrat]

Criminals are more scared of each other than they are of the gov't and the justice system. That's the truth.

I don't care for the NRA. I don't stand behind some of what they say. But the above? Yes. JD sees it every day, and I've said that several times on here. Crime isn't going to stop EV-ER b/c the govt and the justice system won't allow it. If there weren't so many people going thru the revolving door that IS the American Justice System, there would be SO many people out of jobs it's not even funny. That's the plainest truth there is. If they WANTED things to happen, they could, but they don't---there's too much money involved. There's too much "awwwww that poor bebeh he had suuuuuch a hard life he didn't mean to kill that other guy jeez, he's a victim, not a bad person."

 

[Matata]

Criminals are more scared of each other than they are of the gov't and the justice system. That's the truth.

I don't care for the NRA. I don't stand behind some of what they say. But the above? Yes. JD sees it every day, and I've said that several times on here. Crime isn't going to stop EV-ER b/c the govt and the justice system won't allow it. If there weren't so many people going thru the revolving door that IS the American Justice System, there would be SO many people out of jobs it's not even funny. That's the plainest truth there is. If they WANTED things to happen, they could, but they don't---there's too much money involved. There's too much "awwwww that poor bebeh he had suuuuuch a hard life he didn't mean to kill that other guy jeez, he's a victim, not a bad person."

And I'm more scared of the cops than I am of criminals. Are we forgetting the murder sprees those who have sworn to protect us have engaged in this year? And have we forgotten that the American people vote with their wallets and don't want to pay for housing criminals in jails? Packrat I simply fail to see how the "govt and justice system won't allow" an end to crime because WE are the govt and the justice system and WE sit complacently by as long as its NIMBY. What then do we do with all those criminals that will be rounded up that won't cost money? Summarily execute them and be happy because the cost of the injection is the cheaper long-term solution?

There is a town 15 minutes north of me that voted down funding the city police and the county sheriff's offices 3 years ago. The poor police that remained a year later finally quit in frustration because there was no jail to house criminals. And all of the criminals in a 3 county area moved into that town. Crime soared, citizens and businesses loudly complained and promptly voted down, again, the next funding measure. They would rather put up with the crime than pay a dime.

 

[packrat]

JD can arrest someone every single day for a year--the citizens don't decide what happens to that person, the justice system does. The courts and the lawyers. WE are not the government in its entirety, much as we would like to believe it to be so. I'm not saying the citizens aren't stupid when it comes to this stuff-voting down a jail etc--we're dealing w/that shit in our town as we speak. We have to house people who are detained in different counties, and we have to pay for that, plus paying for the officer to drive the person back and forth etc-it's a drain on the budget...a budget that city council sets and doesn't want to increase. But trying to explain that to people is like pulling teeth. A *LOT* of people don't understand what these things mean, what these things entail. It's frustrating.

 

[stracci2000]

Women can vote, and own property.
Blacks don't have separate water fountains.
Gay people can marry.
Nationwide legalization of marijuana is eminent.
We have a two-term black president.
We will soon have a woman president.
Who thought these things would ever come to pass?
Are we actually evolving as a nation?
Change is coming.
The gun laws will change. You'll see.

 

[Dancing Fire]

We will soon have a woman president.

Carly Fiorina will not be our next president...

 

[partgypsy]

Packrat, momhappy, My grandfather served in WWII. My father lived through a war and served in the army. He was a sharpshooter. My uncle was a hunter when younger (yes we ate what he killed), my nephew goes to target ranges and shoots, my brother goes to target ranges to shoot bow and arrow. I don't think gun - ooh it is automatically going to go off and kill someone. But I can read the statistics. The more guns around the more deaths, and I am including both suicides and accidental shootings which disproportionatly kill kids. I never said that all gun owners are irresponsible gun owners, that is silly ridiculous and a straw argument. However I am surprised that responsible gun owners would be AGAINST gun control, against regulations which keep guns out of the hands of the criminal and mentally ill, and make all gun owners look bad, and is a blight on our country. I am aware of gangs and criminal behavior (lived in Chicago, now live in Durham) so I am not some naïve liberal.

My father grew up in Greece. A certain generation of men and generations before them, were armed, wore a gun around. It was just what you did; they were coming from a history of expelling the Turks and was a useful weapon for those in rural areas, for hunting, defense, etc. However at some point those who wore the guns were considered old fashioned and out of place. The culture changed. Those who stockpile guns, want the right to own as many semi-automatic weapons as they can afford, and want to wear their guns into malls, churches and schools, are going to run into a majority of the population who does NOT want those things, as it infringes against their rights and freedoms. We see the consequence of loose gun regulations every day in this country, in the form of the amount of guns in criminal's hands and the number of people killed yearly by single, mass, accidental and suicide gun deaths. Not just illegal guns. The Virginia tech mass murder got his guns legally, even though he was mentally ill and should not have had access to guns.

 

[House Cat]

I am SO happy about the 500 million dollars proposed to boost Mental Health Services. Maybe beds will be available when people in who are in crisis need them!

That's wonderful. Would they be able to open some of the Mental Health Institutes that they have closed? Ours is one of the last remaining, I want to say in the entire state, and Branstad has talked for a while about shutting it down.

I am frightened to know that your state has only one facility. I hope there are private hospitals that are picking up the slack.

Who knows how they will used the money. Hopefully, they won't squander it away on something stupid, like fliers and "education."

 

[House Cat]

What is the problem with background checks? We do them here in California. It's no big deal. We have gun shows... We still do background checks...

We aren't all being murdered by criminals while we are waiting for the background check to clear...

 

[redwood66]

What is the problem with background checks? We do them here in California. It's no big deal. We have gun shows... We still do background checks...

We aren't all being murdered by criminals while we are waiting for the background check to clear...

If they help then they are great. But your state's gun laws hinder law abiding citizens and it does very little to curb the violent crime with guns.

 

[House Cat]

What is the problem with background checks? We do them here in California. It's no big deal. We have gun shows... We still do background checks...

We aren't all being murdered by criminals while we are waiting for the background check to clear...

If they help then they are great. But your state's gun laws hinder law abiding citizens and it does very little to curb the violent crime with guns.

I probably know more gun owners than any of you.

No one that I know in California is having any trouble legally obtaining a firearm.

 

[redwood66]

What is the problem with background checks? We do them here in California. It's no big deal. We have gun shows... We still do background checks...

We aren't all being murdered by criminals while we are waiting for the background check to clear...

If they help then they are great. But your state's gun laws hinder law abiding citizens and it does very little to curb the violent crime with guns.

I probably know more gun owners than any of you.

No one that I know in California is having any trouble legally obtaining a firearm.

My issues with California (and other states like it with a high Brady score) are the restrictions on concealed carry/gun ownership for law abiding gun owners.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/california.pdf

 

[House Cat]

What is the problem with background checks? We do them here in California. It's no big deal. We have gun shows... We still do background checks...

We aren't all being murdered by criminals while we are waiting for the background check to clear...

If they help then they are great. But your state's gun laws hinder law abiding citizens and it does very little to curb the violent crime with guns.

I probably know more gun owners than any of you.

No one that I know in California is having any trouble legally obtaining a firearm.

My issues with California (and other states like it with a high Brady score) are the restrictions on concealed carry/gun ownership for law abiding gun owners.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/california.pdf

I can't access that page. Forgive me if I am wrong, but my husband made it sound rather simple to obtain a concealed carry permit, considering the awesome responsibility of the matter. Read a manual, take a test, apply for the permit, receive the permit, viola...you are now the proud owner of a concealed carry permit.

My husband read the manual in a very short time. I think one hour or less?

I do believe that people from other states have a warped view of what is happening over here. I heard a lot of anti-California propaganda when I was visiting Texas.... The one thing that is true is that I do hug trees.

 

[redwood66]

What is the problem with background checks? We do them here in California. It's no big deal. We have gun shows... We still do background checks...

We aren't all being murdered by criminals while we are waiting for the background check to clear...

If they help then they are great. But your state's gun laws hinder law abiding citizens and it does very little to curb the violent crime with guns.

I probably know more gun owners than any of you.

No one that I know in California is having any trouble legally obtaining a firearm.

My issues with California (and other states like it with a high Brady score) are the restrictions on concealed carry/gun ownership for law abiding gun owners.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/california.pdf

I can't access that page. Forgive me if I am wrong, but my husband made it sound rather simple to obtain a concealed carry permit, considering the awesome responsibility of the matter. Read a manual, take a test, apply for the permit, receive the permit, viola...you are now the proud owner of a concealed carry permit.

My husband read the manual in a very short time. I think one hour or less?

I do believe that people from other states have a warped view of what is happening over here. I heard a lot of anti-California when I was visiting Texas.... The one thing that is true is that I do hug trees.

I am actually from California and lived/worked there my whole life. I am able to compare restrictions of that state to my new retirement state. I am glad that your husband is able to obtain a CCW and maybe it is better in some counties. But the laws are very restrictive on law abiding citizens which criminals take advantage of. I do miss the old California of my youth.

 

[House Cat]

What is the problem with background checks? We do them here in California. It's no big deal. We have gun shows... We still do background checks...

We aren't all being murdered by criminals while we are waiting for the background check to clear...

If they help then they are great. But your state's gun laws hinder law abiding citizens and it does very little to curb the violent crime with guns.

I probably know more gun owners than any of you.

No one that I know in California is having any trouble legally obtaining a firearm.

My issues with California (and other states like it with a high Brady score) are the restrictions on concealed carry/gun ownership for law abiding gun owners.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/california.pdf

I can't access that page. Forgive me if I am wrong, but my husband made it sound rather simple to obtain a concealed carry permit, considering the awesome responsibility of the matter. Read a manual, take a test, apply for the permit, receive the permit, viola...you are now the proud owner of a concealed carry permit.

My husband read the manual in a very short time. I think one hour or less?

I do believe that people from other states have a warped view of what is happening over here. I heard a lot of anti-California when I was visiting Texas.... The one thing that is true is that I do hug trees.

I am actually from California and lived/worked there my whole life. I am able to compare restrictions of that state to my new retirement state. I am glad that your husband is able to obtain a CCW and maybe it is better in some counties. But the laws are very restrictive on law abiding citizens which criminals take advantage of. I do miss the old California of my youth.

What restrictions are you talking about? How have they brought harm to this state?

 

[star sparkle]

I can't access that page. Forgive me if I am wrong, but my husband made it sound rather simple to obtain a concealed carry permit, considering the awesome responsibility of the matter. Read a manual, take a test, apply for the permit, receive the permit, viola...you are now the proud owner of a concealed carry permit.

My husband read the manual in a very short time. I think one hour or less?

I do believe that people from other states have a warped view of what is happening over here. I heard a lot of anti-California propaganda when I was visiting Texas.... The one thing that is true is that I do hug trees.

You are slightly wrong. Don't know what county you're in, but it's not that easy in most California counties to get a CCW. My DH, who just recently left law enforcement for a private sector job, cannot get a CCW even though he's way more knowledgeable, safe, and proficient with firearms than most. In our county, and many others in CA, it's near-impossible for ANYONE to get a CCW no matter how many manuals you read or how quickly you read them. And yet somehow all of the gang members and criminals I come across have caches of guns accessible to them.

 

[packrat]

It wasn't hard for me to get my CCW. I had to take a couple hour class is all. I don't however, carry, even tho I legally can. I am not proficient enough and therefore I am not comfortable enough, so I refuse until such time. THAT's what being responsible is. I do feel you should have to take a class, take a test, show that you know how to handle a gun, assemble/disassemble, shoot, etc. Honestly, I think you should have to either be able to talk or write WHY you want to carry. (not a lot) It's like..who is it, Spiderman? With great power comes great responsibility and I firmly very much whole heartedly believe that.

I don't have a problem w/background checks and waiting. What I have a problem w/is that it seems like the vast majority of people and the vast majority of media, think that those things are going to be the answer, and they're not. They'll fix one portion, a small portion, while the other things are overlooked, whether that be on purpose or not. I have a problem w/making *me* wait for my gun when there's no discourse on why it then becomes ok to get one in five minutes illegally. Nobody talks or seems to pay any attention to the illegal weapons, only the legally obtained ones. So yes, by all means, we can do background checks and wait, and that will save X number of lives. That's wonderful. But in the meantime, XXXXXXXXXX lives are taken by illegally obtained weapons and what do we do about that? They all go together. I think that's what gun owners get testy about. That's what *I* get testy about anyway. That's what every gun owner I know gets testy about--everyone wants to restrict GOOD owners, but nobody wants to restrict say, gun dealers or gang members or those who have bad intentions in their heads that aren't going to be deterred, so rather than wait for a gun, they'll go get one illegally and still carry out what they want to do.