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Obama to announce tighter gun laws this week

kenny

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Too many innocents have died in America!
Finally a politician with the balls to try to do something!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35228848

President Barack Obama says the tighter gun laws he will announce this week will "save lives" and potentially spare families the agony of bereavement.

The president did not give details of what he will do but he is expected to expand background checks on gun buyers.
He told reporters at the White House that the high number of shootings in the US had forced him to act without the approval of Congress.

Gun supporters are deeply opposed to any new laws.

But Mr Obama said his new measures will be within his legal authority and consistent with the Second Amendment, which grants Americans the right to bear arms.
And while they will not solve every violent crime in the US, he said they will potentially "save lives and spare families the pain".
There are tens of thousands more gun deaths in the US than other countries, he said, including suicides and mass shootings.

The new law, to be passed by executive order without Congress, will mean more sellers having to register as licensed gun dealers, say US media reports.

The president was speaking after hearing recommendations from Attorney General Loretta Lynch, FBI Director James Comey and other top law enforcement officials.
 

momhappy

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California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, but that didn't stop San Bernardino.
And as for having the "balls" to do something, this is like the umpteenth time he's pushed for it, so.....not sure about those balls you were referring to ;-)
Now I shall slink back to the mascara thread since these threads about the gun control debate seem to go round and round in circles =)
 

kenny

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momhappy|1451949044|3970669 said:
California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, but that didn't stop San Bernardino.
And as for having the "balls" to do something, this is like the umpteenth time he's pushed for it, so.....not sure about those balls you were referring to ;-)
Now I shall slink back to the mascara thread since these threads about the gun control debate seem to go round and round in circles =)

Okay.
But before you go, thanks for giving this Merry-Go-Round (that you criticize for being a Merry-Go Round) a push. ;-)
 

ksinger

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Ah the wailing and gnashing at the thought of more people (they called them "show runners" back in the day) having to execute a background check and no longer being able to sell guns under the legality radar as "just an individual selling a gun" (wink wink, nudge nudge).

The black helicopters are next - better get out and buy something Rambo-esque! Quick!
 

kenny

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ksinger|1451949891|3970678 said:
Ah the wailing and gnashing at the thought of more people (they called them "show runners" back in the day) having to execute a background check and no longer being able to sell guns under the legality radar as "just an individual selling a gun" (wink wink, nudge nudge).

The black helicopters are next - better get out and buy something Rambo-esque! Quick!

No thanks.
I have no guns.
I still don't see any reason to get one or an arsenal of eighty seven ... for me ... or for any American.

Stores sell meat now.
 

packrat

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Animals still require maintenance. And I get that not everyone here is understanding of hunting, but it's what we do here, so less'n you know about it, please refrain from telling me it's not necessary. I *live* this culture, I know. I've seen what happens to animals that are not maintained in numbers. It's all about checks and balances-not about how fuzzy and cute they are.

Tighten those laws up so tight we're all walking on our tip toes and speaking falsetto. Makes no difference to me. And it will make no difference to those who deal under the radar...unless those that are murdered from weapons obtained illegally aren't as important-that's the only reason I can think of why nobody seems to give any consideration to them. It's a grandstanding effort to appease some people, not anything that is undertaken as a means to actually have a substantial benefit.
 

redwood66

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kenny|1451949306|3970672 said:
momhappy|1451949044|3970669 said:
California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, but that didn't stop San Bernardino.
And as for having the "balls" to do something, this is like the umpteenth time he's pushed for it, so.....not sure about those balls you were referring to ;-)
Now I shall slink back to the mascara thread since these threads about the gun control debate seem to go round and round in circles =)

Okay.
But before you go, thanks for giving this Merry-Go-Round (that you criticize for being a Merry-Go Round) a push. ;-)


You started it. lol.
 

Niel

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Balls don't equate to courage
 

redwood66

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And it won't f-ing matter a bit whatever he does. Criminals get guns.

I can have 870 guns if I want. Because they are F-ing fun! I love shooting them. There you go.
 

Niel

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redwood66|1451953636|3970698 said:
And it won't f-ing matter a bit whatever he does. Criminals get guns.

I can have 870 guns if I want. Because they are F-ing fun! I love shooting them. There you go.

I don't understand your logic that "if criminals will do it, why make it illegal"


Please elaborate
 

redwood66

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Niel|1451953768|3970699 said:
redwood66|1451953636|3970698 said:
And it won't f-ing matter a bit whatever he does. Criminals get guns.

I can have 870 guns if I want. Because they are F-ing fun! I love shooting them. There you go.

I don't understand your logic that "if criminals will do it, why make it illegal"


Please elaborate

I did not say this "if criminals will do it, why make it illegal"

I said whatever he does won't matter. It won't stop criminals from getting guns. Sure I am all for stricter background checks. I am not a proponent of registration.

I absolutely agree with packrat~

...And it will make no difference to those who deal under the radar...unless those that are murdered from weapons obtained illegally aren't as important-that's the only reason I can think of why nobody seems to give any consideration to them. It's a grandstanding effort to appease some people, not anything that is undertaken as a means to actually have a substantial benefit.
 

momhappy

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kenny|1451949306|3970672 said:
momhappy|1451949044|3970669 said:
California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, but that didn't stop San Bernardino.
And as for having the "balls" to do something, this is like the umpteenth time he's pushed for it, so.....not sure about those balls you were referring to ;-)
Now I shall slink back to the mascara thread since these threads about the gun control debate seem to go round and round in circles =)

Okay.
But before you go, thanks for giving this Merry-Go-Round (that you criticize for being a Merry-Go Round) a push. ;-)

Well, somebody had to give it a good push :lol:
And I'm not criticizing your thread, kenny. It's a valuable topic, but it just seems to be one of those topics that goes around and and around with the same dialogue each time. Obviously, everyone should feel free to post away if they so choose to =)
It will certainly be interesting to see if any changes towards sensible gun control are actually made this time.
 

Niel

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kenny|1451950568|3970683 said:
ksinger|1451949891|3970678 said:
Ah the wailing and gnashing at the thought of more people (they called them "show runners" back in the day) having to execute a background check and no longer being able to sell guns under the legality radar as "just an individual selling a gun" (wink wink, nudge nudge).

The black helicopters are next - better get out and buy something Rambo-esque! Quick!

No thanks.
I have no guns.
I still don't see any reason to get one or an arsenal of eighty seven ... for me ... or for any American.

Stores sell meat now.

This statement feels ignorant. There are rural cultures that need to feed their families with the animals they hunt. Meaning they cannot afford to shop at a store for this meat or fish.
 

redwood66

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This is a very interesting document and I wish that more $$$ was spent supporting law enforcement to collect this information and on gang task forces. People who do not live in high gang population areas have no idea the affect these gang activities have on the violent crime statistics.

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/national-gang-report-2013/view

Here is an excerpt from that report on page 10:

January 2013 open source reporting indicates that the murder rate in Chicago, Illinois, surpassed the number of American forces who died in Afghanistan for the corresponding timeframe. The elevated murder rate in Chicago is reportedly attributed to fractionalized gangs battling for turf control and employing retaliatory violence, according to September 2013 open source reporting.2, 3

And another one page 34: This entire section is very interesting.

Law enforcement officials in 65 jurisdictions nationwide report gang-related offenses committed with firearms account for at least 95 percent of crime in their areas.

Officials in at least 69 jurisdictions - including those in Arizona, California, New Jersey, New York, Maryland, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Virginia - indicated that gang involvement in weapons trafficking is severe.
 

momhappy

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Niel|1451958045|3970741 said:
kenny|1451950568|3970683 said:
ksinger|1451949891|3970678 said:
Ah the wailing and gnashing at the thought of more people (they called them "show runners" back in the day) having to execute a background check and no longer being able to sell guns under the legality radar as "just an individual selling a gun" (wink wink, nudge nudge).

The black helicopters are next - better get out and buy something Rambo-esque! Quick!

No thanks.
I have no guns.
I still don't see any reason to get one or an arsenal of eighty seven ... for me ... or for any American.

Stores sell meat now.

This statement feels ignorant. There are rural cultures that need to feed their families with the animals they hunt. Meaning they cannot afford to shop at a store for this meat or fish.

I agree.
 

Maria D

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I know next to nothing about buying, selling, owning or using guns. For those of you that do, and that don't agree with Obama's initiative, what specifically don't you like about it? Do we even have the details yet? (I can't find any, but I find it hard to believe they have anything to do with taking away hunting guns...)
 

redwood66

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Maria D|1451962498|3970779 said:
I know next to nothing about buying, selling, owning or using guns. For those of you that do, and that don't agree with Obama's initiative, what specifically don't you like about it? Do we even have the details yet? (I can't find any, but I find it hard to believe they have anything to do with taking away hunting guns...)

Maria I haven't seen it either so can't say that I am against what he might propose. Other than speculation of the above noted background checks.

My point is that the real problem of the high rate of violent crime is not being addressed. "Mass" shootings as the media likes to call them are but a tiny fraction of the real violence. Why should the overwhelming majority of the law abiding citizens be subjected to, and taxpayers pay for, something that will have no effect? Because any proposals will come with a high taxpayer cost.

And who decides what is a hunting gun? Someone who doesn't know a .30-06 from a muzzle loading .50 cal?
 

kenny

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momhappy|1451956125|3970721 said:
kenny|1451949306|3970672 said:
momhappy|1451949044|3970669 said:
California has some of the strictest gun laws in the US, but that didn't stop San Bernardino.
And as for having the "balls" to do something, this is like the umpteenth time he's pushed for it, so.....not sure about those balls you were referring to ;-)
Now I shall slink back to the mascara thread since these threads about the gun control debate seem to go round and round in circles =)

Okay.
But before you go, thanks for giving this Merry-Go-Round (that you criticize for being a Merry-Go Round) a push. ;-)

Well, somebody had to give it a good push :lol:
And I'm not criticizing your thread, kenny. It's a valuable topic, but it just seems to be one of those topics that goes around and and around with the same dialogue each time. Obviously, everyone should feel free to post away if they so choose to =)
It will certainly be interesting to see if any changes towards sensible gun control are actually made this time.


Often on an Internet forum a poster will 'leave' a thread saying some thing like the thread is so low it is not worthy of their perspective ... of course only AFTER posting their perspective. :roll:
Then of course they keep reading and keep posting. :roll:

Better to just not even open a clearly inferior thread started by a clearly inferior poster.
... or/and after taking their marbles and shunning the 'inferior' thread ... actually shun it ... as in, stop reading and posting.
 

Maria D

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redwood66|1451963208|3970781 said:
Maria D|1451962498|3970779 said:
I know next to nothing about buying, selling, owning or using guns. For those of you that do, and that don't agree with Obama's initiative, what specifically don't you like about it? Do we even have the details yet? (I can't find any, but I find it hard to believe they have anything to do with taking away hunting guns...)

Maria I haven't seen it either so can't say that I am against what he might propose. Other than speculation of the above noted background checks.

My point is that the real problem of the high rate of violent crime is not being addressed. "Mass" shootings as the media likes to call them are but a tiny fraction of the real violence. Why should the overwhelming majority of the law abiding citizens be subjected to, and taxpayers pay for, something that will have no effect? Because any proposals will come with a high taxpayer cost.

And who decides what is a hunting gun? Someone who doesn't know a .30-06 from a muzzle loading .50 cal?

If the ONLY issue is cost without perceived value (and I'm not implying that you're saying that's the only issue) then I'm all for it. Because if it really does have no appreciable effect on gun violence we will be forced to either look for the real problems or accept the fact that we have can have guns, we like guns, and there's going to be collateral damage of innocents every now and again.

In these threads "pro-gun" people have expressed an interest in responsible reform without saying what they think that might be. According to Gallup, a majority of Americans want "stricter gun control" (whatever that is), although the percentage is down from what it was 25 years ago.

After Newtown, I'm numb about this topic. Not just the event, but the fact that it spurred HIGHER gun sales in that area. I naively thought the opposite would have happened, that people would denounce their guns once and for all. I'm a dope.
 

Maria D

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Here's an article about a man who, in the process of selling a gun in a supermarket parking lot during business hours, accidentally shot and killed his 22 year-old girlfriend who was also the mother of his two young daughters. http://www.pressherald.com/2015/11/...dentally-by-boyfriend-trying-to-sell-handgun/

An excerpt:

The prospective buyer was not identified by police because he is a witness in the case, McCausland said. There appears to be nothing inappropriate in the planned sale, he said.

“The sale and purchase of the gun itself doesn’t seem to raise any red flags,” he said.

Grubbs has a prior criminal history that includes a misdemeanor assault in 2014, drunken driving in 2013 and criminal threatening with a dangerous weapon, a felony, in 2006, when he was 14. Normally, a felony would disqualify someone from owning a gun but certain juvenile convictions are no longer disqualifying after the person turns 18.

****

This sale, at four o'clock in the afternoon where people shopping for groceries (possibly with children) are walking by, is not raising red flags! *sigh* Will Obama's executive order fix this??
 

packrat

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I dunno about everyone else but I've talked until I'm blue in the face and there's not a hair on my head about the gun control, the problems, the pros and cons, the real issues that arise and concern us, the real issues that are being ignored. "Pro Gun" people in these threads talk about that. We bring up our concerns. And we're met w/"other countries don't have this problem" and we say our thoughts on why that might seem to be the case. We're met w/"other countries did X and it's worked" and we say our thoughts on why that might seem to be the case. We've said "this is what we think it will take to make this work" and it's by and large, ignored. We've said "This is what we think needs to happen" and by and large, we're ignored. "this is where we need to focus our attention, rather than over here and this is why" We're met with thinly veiled snide comments about how we don't care about the innocent lives slaughtered second by second by the heartless gun owners who bathe in the blood of the children. And I'm not being a smart ass-that is about as near to what I've seen on here as I can come w/out going back thru countless threads/responses and the blood pressure surges that ensue. And then when our hackles raise.. then it's "woooaaah why so defensive? Gosh I was just *saying* if you *really* don't want to see babies mowed down in the streets, I mean, you *are* a gun owner, you'd think you'd be concerned..." Smarmy comments, as my mom used to say..the ones where you just do the slightly narrow eyed smile and nod b/c you know the person is sneering at you inside while they talk to you. It's hard to respond to that. And it's not really going to advance anyone's cause or help work toward a viable solution.

ETA, higher gun sales, yep, I can see that, after something happens or the threat of something happening. People go into panic mode. For lack of a better scenario...whenever there's talk of snow around here, and I mean SNOW, you can't get to the store fast enough. I've seen people push each other out of the way, knock little kids to the ground to get a loaf of bread b/c SNOOOOOWWWW or worse yet ICE OMG ICE IS COMING! Little tip to those of us who experience weather...nowadays we don't have to put a candle in the window so Pa can look for it in the blizzard, and we don't have to tie the clothes line to the lean-to and barn so we can find our way back or be stealthy and hide grain behind boards so no one else can find it. If there's talk about gas prices going up, cars are lined up at the gas stations. We are a nation of panickers. And when something gun-related happens, some people see that no, the cops really *aren't* there to save you, they're there to stop it after it's started. They aren't able to get there a split second after something happens and those seconds can mean life or death. They're not there to prevent the bad guy from doing bad guy stuff, they're there to take the bad guy out during/after the fact. It makes people feel vulnerable that the only one to protect them often is themselves.
 

redwood66

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Maria D|1451966558|3970801 said:
redwood66|1451963208|3970781 said:
Maria D|1451962498|3970779 said:
I know next to nothing about buying, selling, owning or using guns. For those of you that do, and that don't agree with Obama's initiative, what specifically don't you like about it? Do we even have the details yet? (I can't find any, but I find it hard to believe they have anything to do with taking away hunting guns...)

Maria I haven't seen it either so can't say that I am against what he might propose. Other than speculation of the above noted background checks.

My point is that the real problem of the high rate of violent crime is not being addressed. "Mass" shootings as the media likes to call them are but a tiny fraction of the real violence. Why should the overwhelming majority of the law abiding citizens be subjected to, and taxpayers pay for, something that will have no effect? Because any proposals will come with a high taxpayer cost.

And who decides what is a hunting gun? Someone who doesn't know a .30-06 from a muzzle loading .50 cal?


After Newtown, I'm numb about this topic. Not just the event, but the fact that it spurred HIGHER gun sales in that area. I naively thought the opposite would have happened, that people would denounce their guns once and for all. I'm a dope.

This statement/question is in general and not directed at anyone in particular.

Anti-gun people refer to pro-gun people like we are a bunch of crazies who do not have a sensible marble in our head. Why is that? Just because you don't like them, don't want one, or don't understand them, or believe what the idiot media says? There are many things that others do that I think is absolutely insane but I don't belittle or condescend them for doing it. I am a well educated, contributing member of society who happens to like shooting and owns guns. I also own lots of bling and volunteer in my community. There are bad people who do bad things and there always will be no matter what utopian society you might want to live in.

Do you truly believe these ideas the politicians come up with will help at all? How many of you have spent time with criminals?

I might have to tease kenny though for whatever harebrained thing he comes up with.
 

Andelain

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Maria D|1451962498|3970779 said:
I know next to nothing about buying, selling, owning or using guns. For those of you that do, and that don't agree with Obama's initiative, what specifically don't you like about it? Do we even have the details yet? (I can't find any, but I find it hard to believe they have anything to do with taking away hunting guns...)

What I don't like about it is that he wants to make it harder for law abiding people to get guns, but it won't slow the criminals down.
 

packrat

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Andelain|1451968379|3970821 said:
Maria D|1451962498|3970779 said:
I know next to nothing about buying, selling, owning or using guns. For those of you that do, and that don't agree with Obama's initiative, what specifically don't you like about it? Do we even have the details yet? (I can't find any, but I find it hard to believe they have anything to do with taking away hunting guns...)

What I don't like about it is that he wants to make it harder for law abiding people to get guns, but it won't slow the criminals down.

Agreed. I called it a grandstanding effort to appease some of the people, not anything undertaken as a means to have a substantial benefit. He's not doing it b/c he wants to "bring the hammer down" on crime or gun violence. It's a slick politician move to make it look like he's really doing something when in reality, he's doing nothing. Looks good in the media tho and people who aren't privy to what's really going on will breathe a sigh of relief and think we're all safe from the monsters now and praise his name.
 

redwood66

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Maria D|1451967249|3970809 said:
Here's an article about a man who, in the process of selling a gun in a supermarket parking lot during business hours, accidentally shot and killed his 22 year-old girlfriend who was also the mother of his two young daughters. http://www.pressherald.com/2015/11/...dentally-by-boyfriend-trying-to-sell-handgun/

An excerpt:

The prospective buyer was not identified by police because he is a witness in the case, McCausland said. There appears to be nothing inappropriate in the planned sale, he said.

“The sale and purchase of the gun itself doesn’t seem to raise any red flags,” he said.

Grubbs has a prior criminal history that includes a misdemeanor assault in 2014, drunken driving in 2013 and criminal threatening with a dangerous weapon, a felony, in 2006, when he was 14. Normally, a felony would disqualify someone from owning a gun but certain juvenile convictions are no longer disqualifying after the person turns 18.

****

This sale, at four o'clock in the afternoon where people shopping for groceries (possibly with children) are walking by, is not raising red flags! *sigh* Will Obama's executive order fix this??

You can't fix stupid. Some people should not have guns but this kind of thing will happen anyway. And unless a cop intervened in what they were doing at that time it wouldn't have saved her. BTW - I am totally against the President using executive order to bypass Congress on a 2A issue.
 

Andelain

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packrat|1451969020|3970825 said:
Andelain|1451968379|3970821 said:
Maria D|1451962498|3970779 said:
I know next to nothing about buying, selling, owning or using guns. For those of you that do, and that don't agree with Obama's initiative, what specifically don't you like about it? Do we even have the details yet? (I can't find any, but I find it hard to believe they have anything to do with taking away hunting guns...)

What I don't like about it is that he wants to make it harder for law abiding people to get guns, but it won't slow the criminals down.

Agreed. I called it a grandstanding effort to appease some of the people, not anything undertaken as a means to have a substantial benefit. He's not doing it b/c he wants to "bring the hammer down" on crime or gun violence. It's a slick politician move to make it look like he's really doing something when in reality, he's doing nothing. Looks good in the media tho and people who aren't privy to what's really going on will breathe a sigh of relief and think we're all safe from the monsters now and praise his name.

Totally agree. He'd accomplish more if he bypassed congress to get laws passed outlawing murder and robbery.



Oh wait, those already are illegal! :errrr: :errrr: So why doesn't that stop people from committing them? :nono:
 

Dancing Fire

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[quote="redwood66|


Anti-gun people refer to pro-gun people like we are a bunch of crazies who do not have a sensible marble in our head. Why is that? Just because you don't like them, don't want one, or don't understand them, or believe what the idiot media says? There are many things that others do that I think is absolutely insane but I don't belittle or condescend them for doing it. I am a well educated, contributing member of society who happens to like shooting and owns guns. I also own lots of bling and volunteer in my community. There are bad people who do bad things and there always will be no matter what utopian society you might want to live in.

[/quote]

Like resetting their stone every 6 months?... :silenced: :lol:
 

Dancing Fire

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Andelain|1451968379|3970821 said:
Maria D|1451962498|3970779 said:
I know next to nothing about buying, selling, owning or using guns. For those of you that do, and that don't agree with Obama's initiative, what specifically don't you like about it? Do we even have the details yet? (I can't find any, but I find it hard to believe they have anything to do with taking away hunting guns...)

What I don't like about it is that he wants to make it harder for law abiding people to get guns, but it won't slow the criminals down.
No law ever will.
 

Andelain

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Dancing Fire|1451976016|3970863 said:
Andelain|1451968379|3970821 said:
What I don't like about it is that he wants to make it harder for law abiding people to get guns, but it won't slow the criminals down.

No law ever will.

The whole point, exactly! The good guy will give up their guns, the bad guys will get more.
 

chemgirl

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Andelain|1451976902|3970866 said:
Dancing Fire|1451976016|3970863 said:
Andelain|1451968379|3970821 said:
What I don't like about it is that he wants to make it harder for law abiding people to get guns, but it won't slow the criminals down.

No law ever will.

The whole point, exactly! The good guy will give up their guns, the bad guys will get more.

Exactly the point! So then kids don't get Mom/Dad's gun and shoot themselves or a family member. A parent doesn't hear a noise in the night and shoot their teenager. The kid planning a school shooting doesn't have access to weapons.

That will save some lives.
 
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