(Not so) Rwd Ruby

[T L]

No offense to Ed or GRS, but I would want a full prestige report from AGL which scientifically identifies the true color and quality as well as double confirmation of location, for a $21k one carat gem. GRS calls too many rubies, some not so spectacular,”pigeon blood.”

See the bottom report in this page for reference. It’s the full grading report.

http://aglgemlab.com/the-prestige-report

 

[voce]

No offense to Ed or GRS, but I would want a full prestige report from AGL which scientifically identifies the true color and quality as well as double confirmation of location, for a $21k one carat gem. GRS calls too many rubies, some not so spectacular,”pigeon blood.”

See the bottom report in this page for reference. It’s the full grading report.

http://aglgemlab.com/the-prestige-report

Actually, T L and whoever else is interested, I got the AGL Prestige Report for my Ruby and was disappointed, because AGL is going through a change in how they do their reports, and no longer lists secondary colors. They did not disclose they were changing the report format, so when I got the report, it was less information than I expected to see. I think they're going to implement a new color system, but they haven't done it yet, and the old color descriptions, they are no longer using. This change has been for the past few months. The AGL Prestige Report for my ruby came March 19, 2019. I will get on my laptop and show you guys the report format.

 

[T L]

Actually, T L and whoever else is interested, I got the AGL Prestige Report for my Ruby and was disappointed, because AGL is going through a change in how they do their reports, and no longer lists secondary colors. They did not disclose they were changing the report format, so when I got the report, it was less information than I expected to see. I think they're going to implement a new color system, but they haven't done it yet, and the old color descriptions, they are no longer using. This change has been for the past few months. The AGL Prestige Report for my ruby came March 19, 2019. I will get on my laptop and show you guys the report format.

Thank you for the update Voce. Please post when you have it. They need to update their website if this is the case.

 

[voce]

Note the color grading here. No mention of secondary color.

 

[T L]

Thank you Voce! I still appreciate the scientific methods they use to determine quality in the right hand side of the report. It’s much more evident to me than the metaphors used by other gem labs, which blanket various qualities. If AGL ever starts using metaphors like “pigeon blood,” “royal blue, “ “oxtail orange,” (I made that last one up), then I’ll be more concerned. I’m a bit surprised they stopped using secondary colors though. Maybe your stone has no secondary???

 

[T L]

I hope you don’t mind, but may I post your report as a photo attachment? Not everyone can see the pdf.

 

[voce]

Thank you Voce! I still appreciate the scientific methods they use to determine quality in the right hand side of the report. It’s much more evident to me than the metaphors used by other gem labs, which blanket various qualities. If AGL ever starts using metaphors like “pigeon blood,” “royal blue, “ “oxtail orange,” (I made that last one up), then I’ll be more concerned. I’m a bit surprised they stopped using secondary colors though. Maybe your stone has no secondary???

That was my guess too, whether it meant the ruby had no secondary. I had the vendor follow up and ask AGL, but they said they're no longer doing secondary on their reports. After speaking with AGL, my vendor told me AGL has discontinued their Color Scan system (the one telling you about the secondary colors) about 6 months ago, and that they "are currently working on a different system that will be used on the reports in the future." But no idea when that different system will be taking effect. Sounded to me like AGL is still working out the kinks in the new system.

I do agree with you, that I like that AGL is still way more scientific than any other lab about color. I appreciate that they provided the information that my ruby has 80% tone. Although for some reason they weren't able to narrow down the brilliancy range, I don't know of any other lab that reports brilliancy at all, and brilliancy is such an important factor in the beauty of a gemstone.

I hope you don’t mind, but may I post your report as a photo attachment? Not everyone can see the pdf.

I edited my previous post to show an image instead of the pdf attachment it had before.

 

[T L]

They do provide data about the cutting grade, but for the most part, it seems labs care more about the brilliance of a white diamond than a colored gem.

Thank you for posting your report photo.

 

[VividRed]

No offense to Ed or GRS, but I would want a full prestige report from AGL which scientifically identifies the true color and quality as well as double confirmation of location, for a $21k one carat gem. GRS calls too many rubies, some not so spectacular,”pigeon blood.”

See the bottom report in this page for reference. It’s the full grading report.

http://aglgemlab.com/the-prestige-report

Hi @T L

I am thinking to send it to AGL but I fear that the return shipment will be a hassle as I am based in Switzerland and we have VAT on imported goods. Obviously I would not be importing anything other than the report while the ruby would only be returned to its origing country. But customs don’t differentiate as far as I know, unless you under-declare (but you run the risk of being caught and it costs even more...). Do you know how they deal with this?

Otherwise the whole thing (incl. prestige report) would cost me another 1k and that’s not an option.

Have a wonderful day!
VRed

 

[T L]

VRed, AGL deals with overseas stones all the time. I would call them to ask what they recommend. They’re exceptionately helpful and nice to deal with.

Good luck!!

 

[VividRed]

VRed, AGL deals with overseas stones all the time. I would call them to ask what they recommend. They’re exceptionately helpful and nice to deal with.

Good luck!!

Thank you very much! I will reach out to them today

 

[VividRed]

What is the usual turnaround for a full grading report at AGL? Do they send an email memo when it is ready or do I have to wait until they ship the report?

 

[voce]

I didn't submit the stone myself but had a vendor do it. She's located in New York City. It took about 2 weeks. So if you're in Switzerland, maybe it'll be in transit for a week there and back? Maybe 3-4 weeks for you.

 

[Anne111]

If AGL ever starts using metaphors like “pigeon blood,” “royal blue, “ “oxtail orange,” (I made that last one up), then I’ll be more concerned.

TL, I acknowledge you mentioned GRS does NOT name 'oxtail soup' as a gem color but these days people like to pick up such stuff and make it 'reality' by simply reclaiming it 'from knowledgeable source' somewhere else and next you know GRS or AGL did NOT landed on the moon but it was China, and in fact there are no mass shootings at all.
All nonsense, in case somebody didn't get it, but researchable on the web.

 

[VividRed]

Ruby out on its way to AGL.

One question remains: what shall I do if AGL’s grade is significantly worse than the one from the vendor (excellent)? In other words what are my options if I overpaid

 

[VividRed]

Ruby out on its way to AGL.

One question remains: what shall I do if AGL’s grade is significantly worse than the one from the vendor (excellent)? In other words what are my options if I overpaid

To be fair: I love the ruby I bought, no doubts about it and I would buy it again. But of course now I wonder if I paid too much (like 20% is ok but 3x would not be ok...)

 

[T L]

Ruby out on its way to AGL.

One question remains: what shall I do if AGL’s grade is significantly worse than the one from the vendor (excellent)? In other words what are my options if I overpaid

That’s something you would have to discuss with Ed. He’s a highly respected vendor here, so I would hope he would try to accommodate you.

In future though, since you seem to love higher end rubies, I would make getting an AGL report with the desired specifics, part of the purchase requirements.

Please update us on the results.

 

[VividRed]

That’s something you would have to discuss with Ed. He’s a highly respected vendor here, so I would hope he would try to accommodate you.

In future though, since you seem to love higher end rubies, I would make getting an AGL report with the desired specifics, part of the purchase requirements.

Please update us on the results.

Yes, you are right about asking for an AGL cert before buying. It seems to be the only lab that grades stones with a systematic and comprable approach.

I believe Ed is honorable - excellent exchange throughout the whole process, with lots of emails from me and lots of patience from him - but negotiating price after a transaction is not an appealing business practice, especially if you want to deal with a vendor again (which I do).

I saw a 1.01 ct. ruby from Rob Genis (http://www.preciousgemstones.com/101burufs.html) with an AGL grade of very good and a color grade of 3 (!!!) for the same price I paid.

I understand that a color grade of 3 from AGL is pretty much as good as it gets and that red looks indeed amazing, possibly better than my ruby...yes, I will let you know the results for sure!

Cheers
VRed

 

[voce]

Be advised that the clarity grade on the Ruby from Rob Genis is moderately included. That definitely needs to factor in to the pricing.

 

[T L]

Well, I think $13k is a fair price if the ruby comes out to match at least those other color standards as the one from Rob gems. I would be more concerned if AGL found treatment that GRS did not, or a different geographical origin or “undetermined.”

Good luck!!

 

[VividRed]

So here we are, results are in.
@T L , @AV_ , @lovedogs , @voce - what say you? Fair deal?

 

[voce]

I say maybe you overpaid, though not by much. Everything else looks about the same as the one from Rob Genis, but the brilliance of his was more than 35-50%. Your ruby also faces up quite nicely. The depth is only 68%. I hope you are pleased! Your ruby is very beautiful, optimal tone range.

 

[AV_]

I am not enough into RED to get this. Two carats look better than one - www & other stuff must count too www one way or another.

 

[T L]

VividRed,
I’m so pleased you did your homework on this stone. I did think the original pre-sale price of $21k was outrageous, but I think $13k is a fair price. It’s not a bargain, but it’s not outlandish either. It turned out to have optimal color like Voce pointed out. Can you find better deals on rubies? Perhaps, but I think it’s rare, especially untreated Burmese material. I’m glad it was also found to be untreated. Congratulations, and keep it safe!!!!

 

[AV_]

@T L The report does not establish origin.

 

[T L]

@T L The report does not establish origin.

Good catch AV! VividRed, I would contact AGL and ask them about the comments on origin in your report. Notice how they differ from the comments on origin for this other Burmese gem.

https://images.app.goo.gl/y7i3EatpDT2LJP1y9

 

[VividRed]

This forum is a wonderful place to learn about colored stones and I am so glad to receive so much feedback, thank you all - really!

@AV_ I have just received the report a couple of hours ago, I think someone from AGL will call me next week and I will ask about the origin. GRS certified Burma and at least one comment about Burma is made on this report as well - that’s good enough for me but I would like to understand the comment better.

 

[VividRed]

About brilliance - depending on how you hold the ruby it goes from 30 to 90% at some angles. Strange, I certainly thought it had very high brilliance, but who am I to challenge years of experience

 

[voce]

Yeah well, he couldn't narrow down the brilliance range for mine more than 50-100%, so I'm thinking he has a precise method and is not simply eyeballing and estimating like us.

 

[AV_]

I had noticed that origin is not established by analysis, but provenance. If another lab report says 'Burma', then you might discard this report... as seems to be the norm.

My concern here is the smallnes of the thing. I remain with the impression of a staggering price drop for little stones with more presence on paper than in person - if they canot stand as single stone... I might be talking of old history here.