shape
carat
color
clarity

(Not so) Rwd Ruby

Discussion in 'Colored Gemstones' started by VividRed, Dec 25, 2018.

  1. VividRed
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    by VividRed » Dec 25, 2018
    Hi All,

    I’m new to PS and new to colored gemstones but, red being my all time favorite color, I already fell in love with rubies - may my bank account forgive me one day :rolleyes:

    Jokes apart, I just made my first online purchase from an ebay seller and I am not quite sure I want to keep the stone. I know there are quite a few well known sellers out there (AJS, Wildfish, GemFix, Awesome Gems, etc.) but somehow I could not find the right combination of price and quality.

    I found this 1.33ct GIA certified ruby which I bought for USD 2.5k after some bargaining.

    - vendor picture (uploading here sort of killed the picture’s quality)

    E60DAEF5-F662-4AD9-998D-72FF87BA0213.jpeg

    - Youtube video link:

    - GIA certificate link: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2173594127

    Upon receving it I was fairly disappointed with a couple of things:

    1. It is way darker than suggested on the video. That much I understand but the difference is quite sustantial
    2. It has a much stronger purple/pink component than suggested by the GIA report which describes it as RED
    3. Under anything but daylight, the stone looks really dark purplish. Daylight will bring out a pretty pinkish-red glow but not red enough to my taste

    I will try to take some descent pictures over the next couple of days (both indoor and outdoor) but in the meantime I was wondering of you could give me some feedback:

    - Do you think I overpaid?

    - What can I realistically expect at this price point? I’m not ready to spend big money yet as I am really new to this, so this might be as far as I can go and I may decide to give it back and wait until I find “the one”

    - Would you recommend a specific online seller? Size I am interested in is 1 - 1.5 ct. - as close to vivid red as it gets, heat treatment is no problem (I don’t even bother with unheated stones, too expensive for the quality I seek).

    Last point: I can still return the stone for full refund so please be candid :)

    Peace and merry Christmas!!
     
    AV_ likes this.
  2. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    20,575
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Dec 25, 2018
    If it’s misrepresented, I would return it. eBay has a fairly decent return policy that it’s vendors are beholden to. I would check ebay’s return rules, and I would slso ask the seller to initiate a refund.

    Unfortunately, with Burma rubies, you get what you pay for. Any lightly treated, vivid red stone, slightly above a carat, will run you north of $10k. Don’t even ask about untreated, clean, vivid red Certified Burma rubies, as the sky is the limit in those if you can find one (most are inferior color even if they are Burmese).
     
  3. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,204
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Dec 25, 2018
    I know this vendor is very flexible about allowing returns. I'm interested to see pics of what it looks like IRL.
     
  4. VividRed
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    by VividRed » Dec 25, 2018
    @lovedogs I got the same impression but wanted to get some input before I initiate the return/refund process. I will try to get some pictures tomorrow!

    @T L fair enough, that’s what I thought and have seen on the internet so far, hence my reluctance to buy at that price and settle for this stone (too much money on one stone yet, I need to get more comfortable first with “smaller” purchases, altough this might actually be an expensive mistake...)

    I’ve seen a couple of nice stones at AJS for USD 1-2k but I fear they will be pretty similar in terms of color. Any thoughts?
     
    rockysalamander and lovedogs like this.
  5. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    20,575
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Dec 25, 2018
    AJS isn’t known for the most vendor accurate photography. Unfortunately, rubies are among the most expensive, and difficult colored gems to purchase. You can pay thousands of dollars and still have a stone lacking in color and/or clarity, as well as size, and various forms of invasive clarity and color enhancement.

    If you are someone who demands vivid color in your gems, I would probably abandon the search for a ruby, and look to alternative stones, Ruby is the one gemstone I do not own because of these reasons. I’m very picky when it comes to red gems.

    There are some people on this forum that have very beautiful rubies, and one of my PS friends has a ruby ring with a gorgeous African ruby. It was still very expensive, but the Burma locale always has a much higher premium.
     
    rockysalamander and lovedogs like this.
  6. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,204
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Dec 25, 2018
    If you want a vivid red stone that won't totally destroy the bank, I'd suggest spinel instead of Ruby. I just got an amazing red spinel because I was looking for "stop light red" without going over 2k for a stone. So that's another thing to look at!
     
  7. Bron357
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,508
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
    by Bron357 » Dec 25, 2018
    Vendors obviously portray their gems in the best lighting conditions possible, unfortunately these lighting conditions aren’t what you’ll be seeing or wearing the gem in. Also keep in mind that once loose gems are set they “darken” further.
    It’s best to buy from vendors who offer “no problem return for full refund” policy and also ask for photos in normal lighting conditions.
    Burmese rubies are the “be all to end all” and a superb unheated Burmese Ruby is a sight to behold, however the gems are rare and unbelievably expensive.
    You need to buy from rock solid reliable vendors or buy with a rock solid lab report to avoid inappropriate enhancements (glass filling / beryllium treatment).
    Irrespective of origin and acceptable treatment (heat only) a ruby over 1 carat of good transparency and a proper “Ruby red” colour is going to start at around $3,000 a carat AND be hard to find.
    You might like to look at Spinel or even Rubellite Tourmaline, both these gems come in a beautiful red colour but without the eye watering price tag.
     
  8. Burmesedaze
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    3,081
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2016
    by Burmesedaze » Dec 25, 2018
    Even when I was in Mogok last month, I hardly saw any faceted ruby for sale in the local markets. Since most legal mining concessions have ended.

    So prices are skyrocketing as I type owing to the lack of supply.
     
  9. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    696
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    by AV_ » Dec 25, 2018
    You are in for a ride. RED seems to jump out of the mud straight to the top of the world (market)

    I'd dare ask good people I know nothing about - WWW to go through a reasuring third party - WWW.

    Have noticed reds over time at http://www.americanthai.com - you will have to ask what is available.

    Then, perhaps ... WWW

    Just a thought

    - there must be more out there, but I am more likely to be after other things & only notice rubies at random
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
    suzanne2 and VividRed like this.
  10. MissyBeaucoup
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    670
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    by MissyBeaucoup » Dec 25, 2018
    My ruby price point is in my avatar ring. :dance: The ruby is 4 mm and it’s from Winza, Tanzania. I would love to have a larger, beautiful ruby of course! But this one does make me happy. (Set with demantoid garnets and diamonds.)

    I prefer the purple red to the stoplight red so the vendor pics of your stone look really lovely to me.
     
    VividRed, lovedogs and qubitasaurus like this.
  11. VividRed
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    by VividRed » Dec 25, 2018
    Thank you all very much for your answers and advice! I am not in a hurry to find the right stone and I certainly will look into red spinel too.

    @MissyBeaucoup: The picture from the vendor looks very nice indeed, I can live with some purple/pink for that price. Sadly the stone looks very different IRL.

    How about this one?
    https://yavorskyy.com/products/ruby-no-heat-1-40-cts

    It’s above my budget but the first picture looks pretty red to me and I like it a lot (in the video not so much, half of the stone appears brown/dull...). Is it worth anything if GRS calls it PB? I’ve seen it way too often on way too many stones so I question its reliabilty, if any such thing exists in assessing color...

    Thanks again!
     
    MissyBeaucoup likes this.
  12. MJO
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    824
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    by MJO » Dec 25, 2018
    Classic Mogok rubies are purplish red not stop light red. is the stone clean? Is it well cut? My only concern is the residue. What is it? The heat doesn't bother me.
     
  13. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    696
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    by AV_ » Dec 26, 2018
    Good question about GRS...

    Methinks:
    The major labs do not uphold° standard colour denominations for ruby (or anything else) as is done for diamonds. GRS paper is highly respected, but... I would not worry about the BP label nearly as much as about my own preference. Many GRS BP seem darn' dark; many rubies without this baggage are obviously remarcable. It is nice to see some good stuff in person.

    ____
    °not that I wish for such travesty...
     
  14. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    696
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    by AV_ » Dec 26, 2018
    Digressing,

    I am curious about this: www - a lighter vivid red is so unusual, I'd be needing all those words to name the colour.

    One more: www - the pictures could be better.

    Then - spinel

    The standard for ruby red I am keeping in mind is what VCA chose for their classic designs - it is a lighter tone than much of the GRS PB & does not require explanation. I would digress & dissent too...
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
    MissyBeaucoup likes this.
  15. VividRed
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    by VividRed » Dec 26, 2018
    Here are some pictures - missed the best time if the day but all are still shown in daylight (skylight to be precise). This is as good as it gets, indoor is another story.

    19564619-787F-4F9D-92F7-25D4746F25A2.jpeg B98FBCC8-5B30-4929-8C7B-50F5B6FB0B13.jpeg 01BBAC2D-FCCE-476C-A451-31C3CF33B3F5.jpeg 580BDC35-A753-495B-AF35-BAF63F8EAB53.jpeg F1E96AB1-0E76-4F4D-94B9-63D334E2D715.jpeg 80AC44DB-8F8A-4083-B3B8-1EE923C525E1.jpeg
     
    Acinom, AV_ and TheGarnetGirl like this.
  16. VividRed
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    by VividRed » Dec 26, 2018
    Just posted a few pics!
     
  17. VividRed
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    by VividRed » Dec 26, 2018
    Hi MJO - there are a few inclusions visible at 10x magnification plus an eye visible one just below the table. Cut is good and polish also good, depth maybe a bit on the upper end which might be the cause of the stone being a little too dark.

    I have no idea what the residue is, it is not disclosed and that bothers me too - GIA standard report does not give more info, nature of the residue needs to be specifically asked (and paid) for. I hope it isn’t lead glass...
     
  18. LisaRN
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,727
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2007
    by LisaRN » Dec 26, 2018
    My personal opinion is if the stone looks dark purple indoors I would return it and find a ruby that looks good in all normal lighting conditions. Don't settle for a stone that does not look attractive indoors.
     
  19. VividRed
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    by VividRed » Dec 26, 2018
    And here some indoor pictures - the stone is inundated with incandescent light. Clearly there is a fair amount of brilliance but it just looks a bit too pink to me.

    04120F05-5EB3-4A25-AD45-0890EFE63A6F.jpeg E3B7405F-86AE-409E-847F-7915E20A3B36.jpeg F33EB902-2FDD-4A2B-A81C-066FAB224E04.jpeg FA9DD9E2-FE82-4FB4-AB8F-5E4B63C66CEC.jpeg EB4E5131-76C2-4CBB-B2D1-7D280912CBFF.jpeg CC34777C-0571-410E-990A-4E0856CF4B2D.jpeg
     
    MissSarah, AV_ and lovedogs like this.
  20. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,204
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Dec 26, 2018
    I love it, but imho it looks more like a rubellite than Ruby, so I wouldn't want to pay Ruby price for it.
     
  21. voce
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    778
    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    by voce » Dec 26, 2018
    In the pictures it looks like a hot pink sapphire to me. It appears a vivid pink, not vivid red. Since you are set on a vivid red, you'd have to go with spinel maybe to keep it more affordable.

    Personally, I think that even if Burma produces the best rubies, not all Burmese rubies exhibit the traits of the best of the species, and that you should evaluate each stone on its own merit. If it looks too purplish to be pleasing to you, then it's time to return it. Don't hang on to it just by virtue of "this is a good deal because the ruby origin is Burmese."
     
    MissyBeaucoup, VividRed and lovedogs like this.
  22. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    20,575
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Dec 26, 2018
    Does it fluoresce in the sun or under UV light?
     
    lovedogs likes this.
  23. partgypsy
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,877
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    by partgypsy » Dec 26, 2018
    I think it is a pretty stone. I didn't look at what you paid for it. That said you don't seem happy with how pink it is indoors, and gemstones are often either you love it or don't kind of thing.
     
    lovedogs likes this.
  24. VividRed
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    by VividRed » Dec 26, 2018
    I am not really sure to be honest, it sometimes seems to lighten up a bit in sunlight but that might also just be the light bouncing inside the stone. It is supposed to be very visible?
     
  25. VividRed
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    by VividRed » Dec 26, 2018
    I think so too, it is indeed a pretty stone. I’m just not really sold. I think I will return it.
     
    Lykame and lovedogs like this.
  26. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    20,575
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Dec 26, 2018
    In good stones, yes. Higher quality rubies and red spinels should go even more vivid red in sunlight due to this ability. I once had a red spinel that I returned because while it did fluoresce under very strong artificial UV light, it didn’t in sunlight. My other red and pink spinels shows up with a more vivid red in sunlight.
     
    MissyBeaucoup likes this.
  27. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,204
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Dec 26, 2018
    For 2.5k you need to LOVE it. So I definitely think you should return.
     
    Lykame, leukolenos and VividRed like this.
  28. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    696
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    by AV_ » Dec 26, 2018
    You may need to ask for options without a noticeable purple modifier.

    This object is mesmerizing to me ,) (but I hate red!)


    FYI: WWW - there are not pink rubies in stock
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
    suzanne2 likes this.
  29. VividRed
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    by VividRed » Dec 29, 2018
    Quick update: I returned the stone. It was a beautiful piece but not the one I was looking for. The search continues.

    Thank you all for your contribution and advice, I started looking at red spinels too but honestly cannot say the price is significantly lower than ruby at 1-1.5 carat if the color is right - so far, I found it to it to be on par with good quality heated Red rubies, and somehow harder to find.

    Anyways, I will keep you posted :)

    Stay healthy and happy new year!
     
  30. MJO
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    824
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    MissSarah likes this.

Share This Page