No more online certs at James Allen

[tyty333]

Yep @OoohShiny, I tried looking up the cert for a MMD yesterday and it said to contact JA.

I'm not searching for stones at JA anymore or recommending them.

So sad a company would choose to take a major step backwards.

 

[lissyflo]

Ok, I've just been looking at a couple of the (very few but quite nicely cut) MMD asschers on JA and also some MRBs, and all have said to call up for certificates, so perhaps it was another 'oversight' that PS has helped them spot and 'fix'

To be blunt, it's f****** irritating not even being able to confirm LGFs, table size, etc.

PSers just aren’t their market focus, sadly. Another poster (I can’t remember whether in this thread or another) said that it wasn’t worth calling JA for certs because, in the gap between requesting the cert info and receiving it, the diamonds they were interested in had already sold. So JA are obviously still churning over a lot of diamond sales. Although I guess we don’t know how many are then returned, or actually whether the stone was sold by someone other than JA, but frustrating none the less.

It gives you an excuse to upgrade any future plans for you/Mrs Ooohshiny to a proprietary cut though, to avoid the madness !

 

[kmoro]

Hang on ... why are you fine folks still looking at JA at all?

(Just trying to start some trouble first thing on Friday morning)

 

[bludiva]

blue nile seems to be going in the opposite direction. i keep seeing this ad "buying guide" ad campaign and a lot of the info could be straight off of price scope

https://www.bluenile.com/education/diamonds/buying-guides

 

[Swirl68]

Another poster (I can’t remember whether in this thread or another) said that it wasn’t worth calling JA for certs because, in the gap between requesting the cert info and receiving it, the diamonds they were interested in had already sold.

I saw that post too, but had a different experience when asking on chat. On three different occasions I received them within a minute or so. However, they did go to my spam folder. It may take longer if inquiring by phone.

 

[Swirl68]

So, I found a couple of RB diamonds on other sites that did not have videos and decided that I would head over to JA and see if they happened to have them on their site. I found what I thought were probably the same diamonds, BUT then I thought maybe not, because the L/W dimensions listed on the description page were reversed from how the GIA certificate lists them and how they were listed on the other sites. I asked for certificates anyway (since they’re rounds) and sure enough they were the same diamonds. It appears JA is purposely reversing them on their description page and leaving out the height to throw us off. They are so SNEAKY!!

 

[yssie]

So, I found a couple of RB diamonds on other sites that did not have videos and decided that I would head over to JA and see if they happened to have them on their site. I found what I thought were probably the same diamonds, BUT then I thought maybe not, because the L/W dimensions listed on the description page were reversed from how the GIA certificate lists them and how they were listed on the other sites. I asked for certificates anyway (since they’re rounds) and sure enough they were the same diamonds. It appears JA is purposely reversing them on their description page and leaving out the height to throw us off. They are so SNEAKY!!

I mean. They’re not under any moral or professional obligation to list information the way it’s presented on the report. Or even list all the information on the report. They’re only under obligation to not change information.
Stupid != Malicious.

 

[bludiva]

I mean. They’re not under any moral or professional obligation to list information the way it’s presented on the report. Or even list all the information on the report. They’re only under obligation to not change information.
Stupid != Malicious.

I agree with this. I'm sure they carefully considered whether it was worth catering to an audience that values ready availability of this info amd they decided against it. That's their prerogative, and other vendors are standing by to pick up those customers who are no longer getting their needs fulfilled by JA. It sucks to lose an option but they're only ever going to do what is best for their business.

 

[yssie]

His recent decision to reduce information about a diamond readily available online to protect his business did not make changes to his great customer service which many consumers have been happy with.

[...]who believes in PricesScope spirit and education.[...]

Yes, I admit - 100% - this is bad for PS. But it's worth a test, which is all we're doing right now. If it works, great. If not, we can flip a switch and go back. While i don't have a crystal ball, my bet is that we'll land somewhere in the middle. Maybe the reports will be missing unless you register. Maybe we'll create an advanced filter that is hidden most of the time, but available for 'super users' like people on PS. I really don't know yet, but need a couple weeks of data to figure it out.

We uploaded a change today that removed a bit more info than we intended. Measurements, for example, will be back online soon.

As of today:
All proportions remain missing for coloured diamonds (without speaking with a CS rep). Depth remains missing for all diamonds (without speaking with a CS rep).
Inclusion plots remain missing for all stones in all clarity grades (without speaking with a CS rep).
Hearts and Arrows photos are not viewable (without speaking with a CS rep).
Date of report issue remains missing (without speaking with a CS rep).
Additional notes on the report remain missing (without speaking with a CS rep).
Details re. hue of colour grade (ie. notifications of non-yellow body tint) may or may not be reflected in the colour stated on the site - no way to confirm (without speaking with a CS rep).

I personally do not feel these are the decisions of someone who believes in the PS community and spirit of education, enablement, and advocacy. And neither does JA - as judged by his own statement.

 

[lovedogs]

Spot on, @yssie!

 

[LLJsmom]

“we really do want to be the best online diamond retailer in the world”

And they don’t need PS business to do it.

I’ve been following this thread with interest. At first it seemed crazy but that’s only from PSers’ perspective. They’ve done studies and have all the data from their sales and determined what youngpapa said on page 2 of this thread. So all those buyers that don’t care about much about the info removed won’t be negatively impacted by the change and JA has clearly analyzed that this is going to be better for their business. Thus they have made these changes. So to PriceScope: Whatever. The other business gained by speaking with non-PS based business is far exceeded by PS business lost. Yeah. I guess I’m taking this a little bit personally. But that is also irrelevant to JA.

 

[the_mother_thing]

So all those buyers that don’t care about much about the info removed won’t be negatively impacted by the change and JA has clearly analyzed that this is going to be better for their business.

IMO, this isn’t about PS; that’s just the medium in which it’s being discussed. It’s about what is best for and the right thing to do by customers as a whole - whether they are first-time diamond buyers or knowledgeable & armed with information about cut quality.

In many cases, people don’t know what they don’t know, especially younger, first-time diamond buyers. At one time, it wasn’t thought to be necessary (and consequently was also ‘better for business’) to disclose certain ingredients on food labels, problems with homes prior to resale, the fine print/terms of loans and credit cards, etc. But over time, market and regulatory trends have gone the way of providing more information to customers/buyers; not less.

Just because a company *thinks* something isn’t important and can produce some stats doesn’t make it unimportant. Stats can be represented in a way that bolsters all sides of any argument.

 

[LLJsmom]

IMO, this isn’t about PS; that’s just the medium in which it’s being discussed. It’s about what is best for and the right thing to do by customers as a whole - whether they are first-time diamond buyers or knowledgeable & armed with information about cut quality.

In many cases, people don’t know what they don’t know, especially younger, first-time diamond buyers. At one time, it wasn’t thought to be necessary (and consequently was also ‘better for business’) to disclose certain ingredients on food labels, problems with homes prior to resale, the fine print/terms of loans and credit cards, etc. But over time, market and regulatory trends have gone the way of providing more information to customers/buyers; not less.

Just because a company *thinks* something isn’t important and can produce some stats doesn’t make it unimportant. Stats can be represented in a way that bolsters all sides of any argument.

I wholeheartedly agree. It’s not about PS at all.

 

[bludiva]

I think most people I know or have seen shopping for jewelry don't scrutinize the purchase the way people on this forum do. It comes down to - is it sparkly? is it big enough? is it within budget? Most vendors are going to cater to that because it's an easier sale, and if James Allen wants to do that it's their right. But I think they can't try to have it both ways and present themselves as supporters of educated consumers, etc. They should just be upfront about the fact that the Pricescope philosophy is no longer a fit with their business model.

I once again find it really interesting that Blue Nile is doubling down on educating consumers. One of the rare instances I can think of that a marketing campaign has potentially lasting value for the customer. Not one store I visited in person while ring shopping talked to us about ANY of this, it's one of the ways online sellers can really distinguish themselves from brick & mortar jewelry stores. (Note: I haven't purchased from either JA or BN).

https://www.bluenile.com/education/diamonds/buying-guides?

 

[mrs-b]

“we really do want to be the best online diamond retailer in the world”

I'd love to hear how they define 'best'. Best for who?

And - yes! Go Blue Nile! If they could only now work out their prong work and refine their settings and melee even a smidge, they would OWN the middle market.

@bluenile #BlueNile (I KNOW they have a rep on here - does anyone know who that is? If you're the BN rep reading this thread, can you pls identify yourself? Thanks!)

 

[KKJohnson]

I am curious as to what JA return ratio is just for the reason a customer is not happy with the diamonds performance, I think that once a consumer returns a diamond for this reason they try to get educated over a good performing stone vs a dud.

 

[flyingpig]

This does not change anything for me shopping with JA. Yes, I need to ask for the GIA report for each stone I am interested in, which is another step, but the same thing goes for IS/ASET images. Some companies do not even provide the photo of diamond on their websites. You need to ask for it. Many people use GIA report, HCA, and proportions as screening tools, and ask for diamond photo later. Why can't you assess appearance first and ask for GIA report later ? These are just two different approaches; I understand most perfers the former.
Having that said, I am just unable to recommend JA or its stones to OTHER members without GIA report. This is already happening and most people just recommend and mention Whiteflash and CBI, which is a bit boring to be honest. JA will get little to no attention from PS members moving forward; I am sure JA is aware of that being a PS sponsor.
Anyways, as a JA customer, I just want JA to remain in business for my future upgrade. I have seen a few vendors going downhill and there is Enchanted Diamond thing going on. If this decision was necessary for sustainable business, so be it and support it @YoungPapa .

 

[kb1gra]

They’re not refusing to provide Lab reports, which is the way some of you are acting.

They’re not immediately available, but they’re not refusing to provide them at all.

 

[SimoneDi]

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and obviously the freedom to shop wherever they want.

It is great that some people are not bothered by the fact that they now have to ask for the reports if they want to shop with JA. To me, that’s a huge turn off and while I have always enjoyed JA’s presentation and user friendly website, I simply will not shop there as the last thing I want to do is beg for reports or be forced to have a conversation with a sales rep when other vendors happily provide the information I want.

And to me, this is not just about the reports, it’s about not understanding your consumer and not wanting to enable your consumer. As a millennial, I just cannot imagine any of my peers (who are likely a good chunk of JA’s target market) voluntarily make a phone call or take any of their time really to perform an obsolete task that other vendors do not require.

With other younger companies going belly up, I think that JA will still enjoy a steady flow of customers, so that is good for them and I wish them well. Nonetheless, imo, while they are spending their time playing hide and seek, other players, such as BN, might beat them to the home base.

 

[marymm]

In the past I have purchased quite a few stones from JA, kept some, returned some. But before each purchase, I did a lot of searching and researching on the JA website, carefully checking diamond reports and proportions and clarity plots. Like some others, I do not want to have to contact JA for access to each cert for each stone I may be researching, some of which I may dismiss from contention immediately upon eyeballing the cert.

JA can do what they want with their company, but the direction they are going is disheartening (opaqueness rather than transparency). I guess JA's business model is now predicated on the theory if they offer less online information this will force potential buyers to contact them for cert access and then be inveigled into purchasing??? Unlike others, I do not wish JA well as they've embarked on a business model which purposefully withholds critical diamond information previously provided online - this is not a consumer-friendly policy. As it is, I think quite a number of PSers (me included) have had contact with JA reps who provided misleading if not outright inaccurate diamond information... well, at least the 30-day return policy is still in effect.

I have also bought a number of stones from BN over the years (kept some, returned some) and been very pleased with selection, quality, and service. As BN continues to provide online cert access, BN is now my No. 1 vendor for all non-super-ideal diamonds.

 

[scouty]

I requested GIA certificates for 2 different EC diamonds on JA customer service chat this weekend. None arrived in my email. After an hour I went back on the chat with a new rep and asked for the certs again. Still no email. I've moved my search to BN instead because it's so much easier now!

Even if BN doesn't have Idealscope images for their diamonds I remember from my engagement ring search early this year that JA does not have Idealscope available for all of their diamonds. Anyways, I'm so glad I was able to purchase my engagement diamond from JA before they changed their policy on lab certificates.

 

[bibiloves]

I requested GIA certificates for 2 different EC diamonds on JA customer service chat this weekend. None arrived in my email. After an hour I went back on the chat with a new rep and asked for the certs again. Still no email. I've moved my search to BN instead because it's so much easier now!

Even if BN doesn't have Idealscope images for their diamonds I remember from my engagement ring search early this year that JA does not have Idealscope available for all of their diamonds. Anyways, I'm so glad I was able to purchase my engagement diamond from JA before they changed their policy on lab certificates.

Did you check your spam folder? I've requested GIA certs a couple of weeks ago and they were sent within minutes of chat but all of them ended up in my spam folder.

 

[scouty]

Did you check your spam folder? I've requested GIA certs a couple of weeks ago and they were sent within minutes of chat but all of them ended up in my spam folder.

Wow I feel like a dummy! Yep in the spam folder. Thanks! All 3 have the GIA number removed

 

[Johnbt]

i was looking at the JA site before dinner to see what they had available. I'm interested in purchasing 2 studs for my wife to go with her 1.51 carat F VVS2 WF ACA. I was looking at 1.5 to 2 tcw True Hearts F VVS1, VVS2, VS1.

What do I do with the search results? Do I cut and paste the entire list of pairs into a message/mail to customer service and then wait for a boatload of reports to flood in? Do I pick up the phone and start reading numbers for the next 30 minutes? Oh heck no. I'm 68 and I don't have time for that crap. Can I say crap here?

They may end up being the biggest... but they'll never be the best the way they're going.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Speaking of sellers trying to waste my time. It reminds me of trying to buy a new 4Runner 2.5 years ago. I found the one I wanted online in the DC area, so I called for additional details and had to leave a message. No reply. So I sent an email late the next day. The following day I received a voice-mail reply that asked me to stop in to have my questions answered. Yeah, sure. When I first called was 100 miles away at home in Richmond VA and when I emailed I was 250 miles away on the Outer Banks of NC. I called them again and explained where I was and what I needed to know about the factory options; like the $1750 KDSS suspension. The woman said, "Can you come by tomorrow?"

If they'd made things easy for me and answered my couple of questions the first day I would have driven to DC and written a check for the dang thing. All $40k. But not if I have to jump through hoops and work to spend my money because they are tone deaf to their customers and have to do it their way.

I HATE JUMPING THROUGH NEEDLESS HOOPS for info that should be a click away. I feel better now.

Not really. I'm old and I pressure washed the front of the house this afternoon and my aches now have pains.

 

[tyty333]

@Johnbt You can always call/chat and ask them to send you reports for 3 pair of matching diamonds that
a) are PS quality
b) meet your specs (size/color/clarity/cost)

I wonder what that would get you? If they're going to make it hard on us to find what we want maybe we can make them do the work...
Or
The easy solution...shop somewhere that has the info.

I hear you on the "buying a car" complaint. You can never get a straight answer out of them! I hate buying cars!

 

[Johnbt]

"You can always call/chat and ask them to send you reports for 3 pair of matching diamonds"

Three? I read the ingredients on more can labels than that just buying chicken soup.

I enjoy reading and studying details. I was a physics major in undergrad school and had a master's in counseling before I was 24. Then I got tired of school and tests and all that nonsense. Now I read what I like.

I just thought I'd give JA's site a try, but now I know I'll shop somewhere else for certain. I had a great experience with WF. Ask two questions, place order, wire money, get rings. Actually, two orders, because later on my wife wanted a wedding band with tiny diamonds in addition to the plain platinum band that came with the Vatche U-113.

One other thing about searching JA for pairs of diamonds. I tried to set the search to F, but I kept getting lists of pairs with F and G. I suppose they know what's good for me.

 

[Karina Tarkjhanian]

Is this in reaction to the Rare Carat search engine for price comparison?

For me it is. Yes.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

For me it is. Yes.

Sorry, you referred to a post on the first page. What is the meaning?

And BTW PriceScope now has all James Allen stock back listed here after it was removed because of this thread and the Rare Carat / Enchanted Diamonds using JA IP issues.