Nice and rich or ZaZING! and poor.

[Dancing Fire]

a rich sugar mama !!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Zazing (I call it "life chemistry") over rich any day.

I just went through this. I dated a very wealthy woman (trust fund baby) for the past eight months that I was extremely comfortable with, but didn''t have that "life chemistry" that I had with my wife.

I just couldn''t keep going on. I felt like I was wasting my time, and hers. The money was nice, yes I''ll admit, but it didn''t come close to that intangible electricity that I felt with my wife. Through good times and bad, richer and poorer, it was always there.

Once you''ve experienced that, you just can''t rationalize, or "settle". It''s either all that (and more), or nothing.


55, married 26 years, widowed 3.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:30:01 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
a rich sugar mama !!

Why am I not surpised....

The question seemed to change mid stream. Do I want someone rich, no, do I want that ahhhhh passion yes. Didn't marry a rich guy, married for love. We did struggle financiially and otherwise. Our marriage is very strong. We have been through a lot, kids illnesses, financial hardships and deaths. But we have a very strong foundation and it's just stronger over the years.

So I got both I would say. But certainly have contirbuted my fair share as well.

 

[UCLABelle]

Richard- what a beautiful post about your wife...perhaps I should re-think my decision

I did marry for love---and not money---but what we have isn''t a "heated/passionate" thing...it is a deep love and friendship...hence why I picked the latter.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:06:38 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 6/15/2009 6:48:45 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Ha, well, I think a lot of us would choose neither!

For a long time, my answer was zazing and struggling. Even after I got married. I''ll tell you what changed my mind...having a kid.

I am currently the breadwinner, and proud of my career and all I have accomplished. I wouldn''t want to be a SAHM.

However, I would have liked to have a CHOICE.

No one takes better care of my daughter than I do. No one. Because I am the breadwinner, I feel sometimes a huge burden to work and give our family the financial stability I want for my daughter. On most days, it doesn''t bother me.

But there are days when the nanny calls out to me, ''TGal, come look at what she did'' and I missed it. There are days when I''m sitting alone with her and she does something I know *I* didn''t teach her. There are days when I just don''t want to work and play with her all goshdarn day.

Sometimes, in doing everything decently, I feel like I do nothing well. And I''d admit, sometimes, when the night is dark and I let my thoughts run amok, I wish I had the freedom to be one of those wives who didn''t have to worry about money.

But then, I like being a wife in love too.

Honestly, I''d like to have a choice too......even though I don''t have children. When I think of the things I could invest my time into and how much more fullfilling those things might be, especially as I''m now cruising through the middle-aged years, it certainly makes me wistful that another choice doesn''t exist.

The biggest lesson Amelia''s going to learn from you and TGuy is what a healthy, functional, mutually respectful LOVING relationship should look like. Yours is the only relationship she will see intimately enough to learn from, and that will set the tone for what she values in choosing the partner who will be her family when you are someday gone. That''s something she wouldn''t get if you were married to the nice wallet. Oh, and as an added side benefit, she''s also learning that she CAN rely on herself and contribute....because Mom does.

Call me crazy, but given the choice between teaching my kid how to use a crayon or teaching her what matters in a life partner, I''d choose the latter hands down. Yes, it would likely mean I''d feel the pangs of missing a few things (first time using a straw, etc), but that''s what parents do....they sacrifice so their kids will have everything they need.

Thoughtful post Alj. Hopefully she will learn those things - although I''d like to teach her how to use a crayon too! Already I missed her first attempt at crawling, among other things. What''s more ridiculous is that I work from home, so these things are happening while we are under the same roof!

I was a latchkey kid and my mom and dad were off earning a living. I never once wished she was a stay at home mom. I liked the freedom and independence. I did wish she had an easier life, but I learned a lot about work ethic from them, so maybe your theory will hold true.

Richard, what a wonderful post about your wife!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:32:58 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Zazing (I call it ''life chemistry'') over rich any day.

I just went through this. I dated a very wealthy woman (trust fund baby) for the past eight months that I was extremely comfortable with, but didn''t have that ''life chemistry'' that I had with my wife.

I just couldn''t keep going on. I felt like I was wasting my time, and hers. The money was nice, yes I''ll admit, but it didn''t come close to that intangible electricity that I felt with my wife. Through good times and bad, richer and poorer, it was always there.

Once you''ve experienced that, you just can''t rationalize, or ''settle''. It''s either all that (and more), or nothing.


55, married 26 years, widowed 3.

You know, thinking about this, part of me thinks that''s why the next time around I WOULDN''T go for zazing. I love my husband. He is the love of my life. I don''t think I could find that again (although many people find more than one love in their life). I think I would assume that love is gone forever, so why not be with a nice guy with money and enjoy the rest of my life while hanging out with a guy I get alone with fine?

That being said, I still say if anything happened to TGuy, I would want to stay single and just focus on the kid. The hard part would be when she flies the coop and you realize you are all alone. I like being alone, but not sure how I would feel at that stage of life.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:47:44 PM
Author: UCLABelle
Richard- what a beautiful post about your wife...perhaps I should re-think my decision

I did marry for love---and not money---but what we have isn''t a ''heated/passionate'' thing...it is a deep love and friendship...hence why I picked the latter.

the first time you marry for love. the second time you take him to the cleaners.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 6/16/2009 12:14:35 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/15/2009 10:47:44 PM

Author: UCLABelle

Richard- what a beautiful post about your wife...perhaps I should re-think my decision


I did marry for love---and not money---but what we have isn''t a ''heated/passionate'' thing...it is a deep love and friendship...hence why I picked the latter.

the first time you marry for love. the second time you take him to the cleaners.

Nope, it was the other way around for me DF. First time I took the buzzard to the cleaners. The second time, I married my soul mate

 

[Linda W]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:32:58 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Zazing (I call it ''life chemistry'') over rich any day.


I just went through this. I dated a very wealthy woman (trust fund baby) for the past eight months that I was extremely comfortable with, but didn''t have that ''life chemistry'' that I had with my wife.


I just couldn''t keep going on. I felt like I was wasting my time, and hers. The money was nice, yes I''ll admit, but it didn''t come close to that intangible electricity that I felt with my wife. Through good times and bad, richer and poorer, it was always there.


Once you''ve experienced that, you just can''t rationalize, or ''settle''. It''s either all that (and more), or nothing.



55, married 26 years, widowed 3.

What a beautiful post about your wife Richard. I imagine how hard it is I do hope one day, you will experience that magic again. It could very well happen.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/16/2009 1:27:32 AM
Author: Linda W

Date: 6/16/2009 12:14:35 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/15/2009 10:47:44 PM

Author: UCLABelle

Richard- what a beautiful post about your wife...perhaps I should re-think my decision


I did marry for love---and not money---but what we have isn''t a ''heated/passionate'' thing...it is a deep love and friendship...hence why I picked the latter.

the first time you marry for love. the second time you take him to the cleaners.

Nope, it was the other way around for me DF. First time I took the buzzard to the cleaners. The second time, I married my soul mate

 

[softly softly]

Date: 6/15/2009 6:56:16 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 6/15/2009 6:48:45 PM

Author: TravelingGal


Ha, well, I think a lot of us would choose neither!


For a long time, my answer was zazing and struggling. Even after I got married. I''ll tell you what changed my mind...having a kid.


I am currently the breadwinner, and proud of my career and all I have accomplished. I wouldn''t want to be a SAHM.


However, I would have liked to have a CHOICE.


No one takes better care of my daughter than I do. No one. Because I am the breadwinner, I feel sometimes a huge burden to work and give our family the financial stability I want for my daughter. On most days, it doesn''t bother me.


But there are days when the nanny calls out to me, ''TGal, come look at what she did'' and I missed it. There are days when I''m sitting alone and she does something I know *I* didn''t teach her. There are days when I just don''t want to work and play with her all goshdarn day.


Sometimes, in doing everything decently, I feel like I do nothing well. And I''d admit, sometimes, when the night is dark and I let my thoughts run amok, I wish I had the freedom to be one of those wives who didn''t have to worry about money.


But then, I like being a wife in love too.

SAHM''s...they don''t necessarily not have to worry about money. My friend works from home kind of like you do TG and she knows a lot of SAHM''s because she takes her son out with them in the afternoons. She tells me that a lot of these parents and families struggle with the fact that only one person brings in the bacon, and in fact they wish there was more of a happy medium....neither way is the ideal way in their situation.


The other (admittedly absolutely cynical) thing I tend to think is that many wives who TRULY absolutely don''t have to worry about money, would not necessarily consider themselves to have a whole lot of ''freedom'' in that situation. I know I certainly wouldn''t feel all bold and independent. If we have kids, any amt of time that I am not working will be really hard for me to know that I am not contributing financially to the household. Yes yes I know...parenting is just as hard work as a salaried job etc etc...but as someone who has been making money since I was 16 and worked my way through college... it will be hard to not bring in any cash no matter what accomplishments my kid makes because I am there with them as opposed to at work. It''s like a mental prison, definitely not freedom. PLUS...add to that that my work at home mom friend tells me she would not want to be a SAHM like her friends because their whole life is about their kids. She is like..they have NO outlet other than other Moms and playdates, she is grateful for work.


I guess if you married nice n''rich but don''t love him, and had a kid then you could focus your entire being on that kid so that you would not miss what you didn''t have in marriage. But it seems like with the divorce rate out there, that''s not guaranteed either...there are tons of unhappy mom''s in a rich marriage.


So yeah I''d be alone.

Mara I am just wondering if what your friend says of her SAHM friends is based on what they have told her about their lives (i.e if they have expressed disatisfaction with not working outside the home)or if she is making assumptions based on her own life and preferences.

I have been a SAHM since my first child was born 4 years ago, and while I do sometimes feel bored and dissatisfied, I don''t feel like I have no outlet other than my kids. Sure they take up the majority of my time, but I still read books, watch movies, go out at night when I get the chance and am perfectly capable of taking part in a conversation that does not involve my kids or parenting. Perhaps it was not your intention, but I have to say, it does come across as a little condescending to say that SAHM have no outlet other than their children, especially when you have no personal experience of what it means to be a SAHM. Which is not to say that I would think any less of someone who felt that way PERSONALLY about themselves because being a SAHM is not for everyone, I just don''t want anyone feeling sorry for me because that''s what my life is.

I''m all for people doing whatever works in their situation, so I don''t think working mothers are better or worse than non-working mothers. I think it''s great that we get to have the choice. However I am often baffled by comments such as your which imply that I must be missing out on something vital because I don''t work outside my home. And yes, as you can tell from this post, it does make me just a touch defensive

 

[bee*]

Ideally I would like something in the middle but I had to pick one or the other, it would be the nice rice guy. Nothing would kill the zazing feeling for me than being with someone who's constantly struggling, especially as I make my own money.

I'm 27, getting married in 2 days but have been with D for ten years.

 

[atroop711]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:32:58 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Zazing (I call it 'life chemistry') over rich any day.


I just went through this. I dated a very wealthy woman (trust fund baby) for the past eight months that I was extremely comfortable with, but didn't have that 'life chemistry' that I had with my wife.


I just couldn't keep going on. I felt like I was wasting my time, and hers. The money was nice, yes I'll admit, but it didn't come close to that intangible electricity that I felt with my wife. Through good times and bad, richer and poorer, it was always there.


Once you've experienced that, you just can't rationalize, or 'settle'. It's either all that (and more), or nothing.



55, married 26 years, widowed 3.

this is exactly how I feel! From your post, I could tell the love in your heart that you and your wife shared. Just beautiful! That's what we should all have...that unconditional, true love

 

[atroop711]

what does Zazing and poor mean to you?
My Zazing was poor but we were young (23yr) when we met). With time the dirt poor status changed...as we did with age and maturity. Not saying we''re rich but things do change with time and maturity. I guess my point is when you meet someone who you have that Zazing with, even though he/she may be poor...that may change with time.

Imagine letting an amazing love go just because their bank account wasn''t what you wanted at on that date and time? My college friend did this. She met an amazing guy who grew up very poor, was great student, huge potential and lots of ambition. This didn''t matter to her. He couldn''t buy her what she wanted then and there. Even though she really liked him, she kept going back to what he didn''t have. She broke up with him but continuously thought about him. Years passed, she got older and matured. She always thought about him and looked him up. He was VERY successful, married with a family. She was upset that she let him go. She''s 44 yr old now and never married (not to say she''s doomed). No one has ever treated her like he did. She''s dated nice and rich but hasn''t been happy.

 

[AdiS]

Date: 6/15/2009 4:19:53 PM
Author: Mara
having done the 'nice' guy thing previously, i would not marry someone who i didnt have very strong feelings for. IMO, unless you have been in THAT relationship, with a guy who treats you great, loves you, adores you, whatever...but that you just cannot quite reciprocate the same feelings for... you don't really know if that is what you would choose. i felt so guilty that i could not reciprocate his feelings even though i tried...like i was cheating him.

if as someone else said the passion was real passion for who the person was and a TRUE heart attachment, and not just simple lust... then i would def take that and try to make our way together. you don't know that someone will ALWAYS be struggling just because they are when you met them, and i have been quite successful in my own right, so even if he never was a breadwinner, i could take care of us.

if i couldn't do the above, i'd be alone.

eta: 34 married for 5 years, together for 9.

Ditto, ditto and ditto, Mara!

Money is good, it's never too much and can make life so much easier. A nice guy is ok too, if you are compatible and he treats you well. BUT marriage is not about convenience, IMHO. Marriage is not about being best friends. I know many wouldn't agree but I stand firm behind my beliefs - your husband has to be first and foremost your lover (and not only in the sexual context of the word!) Having known and married the ZaZING!, I'd never accept anything less than that. He's not struggling, thank God, but we've been through good times and bad times together. Love makes this crazy whirlpool of everyday life so much more bearable! Job stress, obstructed plumbing systems, the wet towels he just tosses over the bed after he takes a shower (

) and dog eating your slippers. Yes, money can find a fast and easy solution, I guess. But love can give you comfort, understanding and, well, love!

Passion fades, some say. And what if the nice rich guy suddenly lost all his money? What would you have left then, when there was never love between you in the first place?

Most importantly, no rich nice guy in the world can make my heart sing the way DH does just by looking at me. I loved him when he was a poor student who bought me my tiny cheap engagement ring almost five years ago and I love him now when he buys me diamonds.

I'll be 25 in September, we've been married for almost three years and we've been together for 5.5 years.

 

[Mara]

softly, honestly i don't care what people do either...everyone is entitled to their own way to live their own life and do what's best for them. i don't think that anyone feels sorry for you. i posted what she said to point out the obvious. That because someone is a SAHM does not mean that their life is easy, that SAHM's have it made financially, or that it's filed with freedom beause they don't report to an external 'boss'.

my friend most likely reported that to me because she was surprised that sometimes people who make the choice to be a SAHM are NOT well-to-do and have money pouring out their ears. she honestly can't understand why someone would do that if you don't have more than enough, they are huge savers. she is also a very independent woman who has been working most of her life as well, so it also is just not in her to not want to work and she doesn't understand it.

rich..good to see you, my friend, and what a lovely touching post.

to go back to the original post...i was thinking and surely i wouldn't marry a loser spendthrift who refused to grow up. i wouldn't marry someone like that. so yeah.. i'd be alone if that or nice and rich but didn't feel it were the only options. i can pay my own bills.

TG i hear ya on having a kid and what if rich guy died and left you lots of cash. but you know it's not always quite that easy! rich guy might have vicious parents who don't want the golddigging wife to get all the cash. or maybe you find that rich nice guy was really just bad in business and spent most of what you thought he had.

my mom raised me on 2 jobs and yes she struggled and yes she was alone. but knowing what she went through gave me so much respect for her. i don't know that i'd feel the same way if she said she just married some nice rich guy because he could provide for her. i am proud she provided for herself and me and that i never felt lacking in anything. possibly this also colors my response.

these hypothetical a or b answers never work for me, i am far too analytical and realistic...hahaha.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/15/2009 2:31:17 PM
Author:TravelingGal
And for grins, when answering, tell us if you are single, in a relationship or engaged, married and how long, or divorced (or whatever your status may be) and how old you are, i.e. 20''s, 30''s, 40''s, or not telling.


I would pick the nice rich guy.
Me: married over 2.5 years and in my mid 30''s.

married
too long
very old

 

[Linda W]

Date: 6/16/2009 11:02:59 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/15/2009 2:31:17 PM

Author:TravelingGal

And for grins, when answering, tell us if you are single, in a relationship or engaged, married and how long, or divorced (or whatever your status may be) and how old you are, i.e. 20''s, 30''s, 40''s, or not telling.



I would pick the nice rich guy.

Me: married over 2.5 years and in my mid 30''s.

married

too long

very old

What do you mean you are very old????

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/15/2009 6:56:16 PM
Author: Mara


I guess if you married nice n''rich but don''t love him, and had a kid then you could focus your entire being on that kid so that you would not miss what you didn''t have in marriage. But it seems like with the divorce rate out there, that''s not guaranteed either...there are tons of unhappy mom''s in a rich marriage.

So yeah I''d be alone.

i would rather be "rich and unhappy" then "poor and unhappy"

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/15/2009 7:36:35 PM
Author: NovemberBride
Ditto to Isaku, Mara, Linda and everyone who is surprised how many women here (in what I consider to be a highly intelligent and independent group of women) chose nice and rich. I could not imagine being married to someone I did not have strong feelings for. I feel like it''s the equivalent of the men on the board having a poll that asked would you choose a wife that''s hot and dumb or average and smart. I think there''d be a lot of outrage here if the men all chose hot and dumb.

i''ll take the hot,dumb and rich one.

 

[misskitty]

Date: 6/15/2009 6:18:33 PM
Author: isaku5
I have to say that I''m floored by the number of women who chose nice and rich

!


My POV has always been that if I want ''rich'' or even ''rich-ish'', that''s my responsibility to see that I can earn the $$$$. That way, if he turns out to be a loser, I''m still financially set as are our potential offspring

.


I''m 66 and have been married for 46 years. Have they all been glorious and passion-filled??? Never mind. Would I do it differently if given the opportunity? Not a chance

Ditto for me, too.

I''m 24, and in a relationship. If I want something, I consider it my own responsibility to get it. I''d much rather marry someone that I''m passionate about than someone who could give me nice things but that I felt kind of ''eh'' about. (I do agree with some of the previous posters that I wouldn''t want a con-man or a deadbeat, but struggling/hardworking is okay.)

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:32:58 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Once you''ve experienced that (life chemistry), you just can''t rationalize, or ''settle''. It''s either all that (and more), or nothing.

I most emphatically agree with this.

I couldn''t settle the first time. My parents have been married for 45 years next month, and they definitely have that life-chemistry. During my childhood, they went through some tumultuous times and certainly each contemplated separating. In those times when they were struggling to even tolerate each other (much less love each other), they each chose to focus on that core foundation of love that brought them together initially. Their faith in the strength of that core love gave them the resolve to keep working at it during those difficult times.

Their relationship is the real deal, and I grew up as a witness to it. When you see the real thing, it''s nearly impossible to settle for less. That''s why I couldn''t settle the first time around, even though I hadn''t yet experienced it myself.

I waited a looooooooooong time to find that life chemistry with my husband, and I can say in hindsight that it was worth the wait. There is no other experience like it, and once you''ve had that connection, nothing less will cut it.

 

[Beacon]

Date: 6/16/2009 7:43:12 AM
Author: atroop711
Imagine letting an amazing love go just because their bank account wasn''t what you wanted at on that date and time? My college friend did this. She met an amazing guy who grew up very poor, was great student, huge potential and lots of ambition. This didn''t matter to her. He couldn''t buy her what she wanted then and there. Even though she really liked him, she kept going back to what he didn''t have. She broke up with him but continuously thought about him. Years passed, she got older and matured. She always thought about him and looked him up. He was VERY successful, married with a family. She was upset that she let him go. She''s 44 yr old now and never married (not to say she''s doomed). No one has ever treated her like he did. She''s dated nice and rich but hasn''t been happy.

This story is not how I think of "struggling". Many people are young and not have much money and that is OK with me. In fact, that is the type I am most attracted to: the ones who are making something of themselves in the face of challenges.

But in the context of the post, I figured "struggling" was someone who just wasn''t making it and wasn''t going to make it in their profession, whatever it was. Maybe I read into it, "lack of ambition".

The gal in the above story was not ready for marriage. Good thing that she did not marry the guy as she did not have real feelings for him at the time - just wanted more money.

 

[dragonfly411]

I''d pick poor. I don''t need money as much as I need love and happiness and adventure. I''m in my 20''s and in a relationship

 

[Lilac]

I couldn''t marry someone I didn''t feel totally, completely, passionately in love with. DH and I haven''t been married that long (just a little over 4 months) but we''ve been together for almost 5 years and it just keeps getting better and better. I still look at him every single day and can''t believe how lucky I am to be his wife, and I always look forward to spending time with him. We could be sitting and doing absolutely nothing (and sometimes we do because we don''t want to spend money to go out!) and we still have fun together.

Money could never make me feel this way, so a nice rich guy would never be able to provide for me the things DH does every single day. Money could buy maybe a few moments of empty happiness - material items that might make me happy for a few minutes when I get them, but then leave me feeling empty inside. But the deep emotional connection that comes with true passionate love (even with someone who does not have very much money) leaves me feeling complete in a way a "nice rich guy" never could.

 

[partgypsy]

Well my husband is an artist, musician and part-time bartender, but Zazing! to me, so that''s what I chose. Once you have the necessities poverty is a state of mind. Throughout most of our relationship we have had little money and few material possessions but I didn''t feel "poor".

Ironically my college sweetheart whom I broke up with was very smart and ambitious, kept in touch with me through the years, ended up creating his own startup worth millions. But then we would have been 2 competitive workaholics in the relationship so that probably wouldn''t have worked out; who''s going to stay home with the kids?

 

[LadyBlue]

If the nice and rich guy makes me happy, I will go for it. Money is the cause of divorce in many marriages

 

[partgypsy]

I also see poor and struggling as different than being a "loser". My husband will never make much money due to his choices and values, but he is an extremely dedicated and hard-working person, in fact those aspects of his character are partly what make him so attractive to me. With children there is a bit of a change, in that the two of us could live minimally very happily, while with children you have to provide and provide long term more stable "conventional" life. Like Traveling Gal, sometimes it does feel like a burden to be the primary breadwinner. I''ve never minded working, so it''s maybe a psychological thing more than anything, to feel it''s a responsibility than a choice to work, so I can see where the fantasies of rich man come in. I have a feeling the fantasy is better than the reality, because I''m not sure I would enjoy the power shift, even if it wasn''t verbalized.

 

[partgypsy]

(Oh yeah, 41, married).

I think it''s a different question first time you get married versus if something happened to my husband now. When I met my husband we were in our early twenties and no one had any money. Now, yes I have myself and children. Not sure I would even get married again, as it concerns both myself AND my children, and I would do what is best for them, to tell the truth.

 

[tlh]

Nice and rich, there are always batteries.