Newbie has a question, first of many..

[bebe]

I''m sure this question has been asked before, but..

I''m a total newbie regarding colored gemstones. But at some point in the future I''d like to put together a ring
with a yellow or pink center. I think I want an asscher cut, square EC or a square cushion.

So, what gemstone gives off the most scintilation ?

I''m not expecting fire like a diamond. I have a lot to learn, I admit.
I''ve been looking through the sites, just looking and seeing what catches my eye.
Any guidance will be welcome.

 

[oldmancoyote]

There are yellow and pink diamonds, so why limit yourself? They won''t have fire like a colorless stone, but still very bright and sparkly... and yellows can be quite affordable (relatively speaking).

 

[LD]

Chrysoberyl is a lovely gemstone with great brilliance and fairly attractively priced. It comes in a range of yellows from acid through to honey and is very pretty.

Sphene (usually green) does come in a honey and deep yellow/orange colour also. It has fire like a diamond (very difficult to capture in a photo but you typically see red, blue, green, purple fire etc!

Citrine is a reasonably inexpensive gemstone and some of the cutters you'll see mentioned on this forum have some lovely examples on their websites.

The obvious yellow to suggest is a yellow sapphire - a good one will sparkle! Depending on whether you're looking for a natural or treated stone will depend on whether you pay top $ or find one fairly inexpensively.

In pinks you again have sapphires (in all colour ranges of pink), tourmalines (one of my favourites and very sparkly), Kunzite which ranges from baby pink to a deep purple/pink - but beware, some Kunzite will fade if left in direct sunlight. Kunzite has a lovely phosphorescence and is called an evening gemstone because it really glitters at night. Morganite could be considered also as it does come in pink but also in peach tones.

Phew - think that should get you started! Hope that's helped.

 

[bebe]

LovingDiamonds, thanks for the list. I have looked at many, many of those stones, but just seeing them online I know doesn''t give me
the real picture. Some I''ve looked at seem blah, while others seems to have great life. But I wonder is it just the photography!
Originally I thought I wanted a yellow sapphire, then I was a little shocked and surprised at the prices for an unheated one.
So I thought, hmm, let''s see what is out there. I''m just curious about which stones have more fire than others.

OldMan

, I''ve spent quite a bit this year on colorless diamonds, so this next project isn''t going to be a high dollar one.
While I do love pink and yellow diamonds, I think one of the size I''d like is still out of reach right now. So maybe
a spinel, tourmaline or even a heated sapphire...

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Are you talking about brilliance?

Spinals give off a good amount. I just got a pink one and that thing lights up like crazy in the right lighting.

Garnets have a good amount too. Dimatoids and tsavorites (in my aviator) are green. My is a step cut and it still goes crazy.

 

[bebe]

Date: 1/8/2009 8:05:43 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
Are you talking about brilliance?

Spinals give off a good amount. I just got a pink one and that thing lights up like crazy in the right lighting.

Garnets have a good amount too. Dimatoids and tsavorites (in my aviator) are green. My is a step cut and it still goes crazy.

Yes, brillance and scintilation!
(showing my ignorance for sure!)

 

[ma re]

Bebe,

judging the degree of life in a stone (scintillation) from a photo is not among the best methods known. I suggest using youtube or something similar and sourcing videos of stones, just for reference. It will give you a better idea on how a stone looks like in person without having to go around town in a zillion stores. Judging this based on a photo is like trying to find out how fast a person can run, with the help of a photo. As with diamonds, the degree of brilliance and scintillation in a stone depends on three factors - refractive index, level of clarity and the precision of cutting (and a style of cutting, to a degree). With that in mind, I can tell you that the highest refractive index among colored stones (those used in jewellery) possess the following varieties: sapphire (therefore also ruby), chrysoberyl, spinel, garnet and zircon - and of course colored diamonds. All others are pretty much lower than these. And since you said the color in question is pink or yellow my suggestions are

- pink: sapphire, spinel, malaya garnet or rhodolite garnet (although rhodolites are usually dark red)
- yellow: diamond, sapphire, chrysoberyl, spessartite garnet, mali garnet, malaya garnet or zircon.

But beware that not all gemstones are suitable for wear in rings and zircon might be among them, just like sphene and kunzite. And based on the shapes you mentioned, I suggest you look for cushions. They''re the easiest to find of all shapes you named and will give off more life from a stone than most step cuts. You also didn''t say what size of a stone you''re looking for. If you''re after something big, that instantly eliminates some of the stones above, while others come in larger sizes.

Hope this gives you something to start with

P. S. You''ll have a hard time finding a nice and sparkly pink ruby or a pink diamond of decent size without spending a fortune.

 

[bebe]

Date: 1/9/2009 4:11:29 AM
Author: ma re
Bebe,

judging the degree of life in a stone (scintillation) from a photo is not among the best methods known. I suggest using youtube or something similar and sourcing videos of stones, just for reference. It will give you a better idea on how a stone looks like in person without having to go around town in a zillion stores. Judging this based on a photo is like trying to find out how fast a person can run, with the help of a photo. As with diamonds, the degree of brilliance and scintillation in a stone depends on three factors - refractive index, level of clarity and the precision of cutting (and a style of cutting, to a degree). With that in mind, I can tell you that the highest refractive index among colored stones (those used in jewellery) possess the following varieties: sapphire (therefore also ruby), chrysoberyl, spinel, garnet and zircon - and of course colored diamonds. All others are pretty much lower than these. And since you said the color in question is pink or yellow my suggestions are

- pink: sapphire, spinel, malaya garnet or rhodolite garnet (although rhodolites are usually dark red)
- yellow: diamond, sapphire, chrysoberyl, spessartite garnet, mali garnet, malaya garnet or zircon.

But beware that not all gemstones are suitable for wear in rings and zircon might be among them, just like sphene and kunzite. And based on the shapes you mentioned, I suggest you look for cushions. They''re the easiest to find of all shapes you named and will give off more life from a stone than most step cuts. You also didn''t say what size of a stone you''re looking for. If you''re after something big, that instantly eliminates some of the stones above, while others come in larger sizes.

Hope this gives you something to start with

P. S. You''ll have a hard time finding a nice and sparkly pink ruby or a pink diamond of decent size without spending a fortune.

ma re, thank you so much. You''ve written exactly what I was getting at. I do want a large stone, maybe 3-5 cts., so maybe I''ll start looking at lower cost gems - just have to do a lot of research. I''m thinking maybe a yellow stone over a pink, but if the right pink showed up, well . And I will look at youtube and the such. I''ve looked at diamonds there for fun, but I''ve forgotten about that resource. I''ve also been checking out all the colored gem sites in the sticky thread here on Colored Stones. Overwhelming, but fun!
Thanks again, your info is very appreciated.

 

[T L]

MaRe gave some excellent advice, the only thing I would add is to stay away from grey modfiers in pink and yellow stones. You want something vibrant. There are many pink and yellow stones that look murky or unsaturated. Depending on the shade of pink you're going after, it can also be overly extinct if it's a darker shade, especially in different lighting. Pink tourmalines and garnets are infamous for this.

 

[bebe]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:17:44 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
MaRe gave some excellent advice, the only thing I would add is to stay away from grey modfiers in pink and yellow stones. You want something vibrant. There are many pink and yellow stones that look murky or unsaturated. Depending on the shade of pink you''re going after, it can also be overly extinct if it''s a darker shade, especially in different lighting. Pink tourmalines and garnets are infamous for this.

How will I be able to determine if the stone has grey modifiers? And what is that? (stupid question, but I gotta learn!) Saturation I think I know - is that the same intensity
of the color throughout the stone? Thanks for the help!

 

[T L]

You know, that's a very good question, and I think your average Joe on the street would think 99% of the stuff they see at the chain jewelers are the most fabulous quality. If I were you, I would walk into a very high end jeweler known for top quality colored gems and take a good look at those. Once you see a fabulous color, it sticks in your mind, and nothing else can compete after that. It's difficult to really judge these things on monitors and in videos, but in person, you can see the difference. Getting a good eye for excellent color takes a lot of viewing of fabulous stones IMHO.

I was just at Nordstrom last week, and had a look at their tourmaline jewelry. They were all ugly murky colors with lots of extinction and grey. I was wearing some of my nice tourmaline jewelry and you could spot the differences in color and liveliness instantly. However, that's typical of the type of gems that 99% of the general public sees, and what they are used to, so they think it's great. I haven't been all that impressed with Tiffany & Co's colored gems either, but that's another thread, so I wouldn't go there to view stones.

I think Graff & Cartier are the places to go when looking at top quality. Richard Wise's book talks a lot about saturation, hue and color as well, and it's a good primer for learning what to accept as far as quality in colored gems are concerned.

 

[ma re]

By grey modifiers TL refers to a grey tint visible in the shade of color. That''s not intensity of color, but more like purity of tone. Here''s a comparison; stone #1 and stone #2 seem very similar...on paper. Their weight, color as well as clarity classification are almost identical. Not to mention cut and dimensions, enhancement and country of origin. But the first one has a greyish tone of pink, while the second one a more pure pink. BTW, neither is a good example of pink sapphire, to put it nicely

 

[T L]

Thanks for that MaRe, good comparison. Some pinks also have more blue or purple modifiers, and some have more orange. THis is a matter of taste as well. For example, padparadscha sapphires are a highly prized version of pink/orange, and many people just love them, and some love the more puple pink sapphires.

 

[bebe]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:31:34 PM
Author: ma re
By grey modifiers TL refers to a grey tint visible in the shade of color. That''s not intensity of color, but more like purity of tone. Here''s a comparison; stone #1 and stone #2 seem very similar...on paper. Their weight, color as well as clarity classification are almost identical. Not to mention cut and dimensions, enhancement and country of origin. But the first one has a greyish tone of pink, while the second one a more pure pink. BTW, neither is a good example of pink sapphire, to put it nicely

Better 1, or Better 2 (laughing how this sounds like I''m at the eye doc)

Ok, I did a quick study on those 2 and yes, I can see the difference. But I know I won''t always that kind of comparison to go by.
It will take a lot of reading and looking, no doubt.

TL, thanks for your input as well. I will check out stones in high end stores locally.

Ya know all this brings back the memory that my MIL and FIL both thought he bought fine sapphires while he was
serving in WWII. He was in the Asia/Pacific region and bought 2 rings that were sold to him as sapphires. One yellow and 1 blue.
I always liked the rings, and recently MIL gave them to me. Uhhh, they were both awful. I knew immediately they were synthetic.
She has gone 50+ yrs. thinking those rings were real. I guess that is what matters though, memories and sentiment.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:15:10 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover


I think Graff & Cartier are the places to go when looking at top quality. Richard Wise''s book talks a lot about saturation, hue and color as well, and it''s a good primer for learning what to accept as far as quality in colored gems are concerned.

I think going to the high end stores is a great way to start. When I started looking for my first colored stone, me and my BF drove to the OC for a gem show. All but one of the vendors had crap for stones. After an hour I was disappointed and ready to go, the whole point of going was to see colored stones in person. My BF insisted that we would not give up that quickly, and said if I wanted to see nice colored stones there was only one place to go. The next thing I know I am mapping the way to rodeo drive. I saw some of the most beautiful gems I have ever seen. Those images are still stuck in my mind and helped me with my first purchase.

 

[Pandora II]

I''m pretty sure that Graff only deal with rubies, sapphires and emeralds - they don''t use any of the less well-known coloured stones.

I found that museum collections were good places as well - granted I live in London and so have easy access to some amazing rocks, but if you are ever in an area with a good natural history museum do take a look at the gemstones.

The big auction house catalogues and websites can be interesting as well.

 

[ma re]

Date: 1/9/2009 3:46:21 PM
Author: bebe

Better 1, or Better 2 (laughing how this sounds like I''m at the eye doc)

#2 is better, sorry for not stating. Grey modifiers are not something you want in a stone i.e. you want the color to be as pure and as intense as possible. THIS might not be a bad place to start your colored stone education

And THIS little thread has some useful info and advice as well.

 

[bebe]

Date: 1/10/2009 4:15:55 AM
Author: ma re

Date: 1/9/2009 3:46:21 PM
Author: bebe

Better 1, or Better 2 (laughing how this sounds like I''m at the eye doc)

#2 is better, sorry for not stating. Grey modifiers are not something you want in a stone i.e. you want the color to be as pure and as intense as possible. THIS might not be a bad place to start your colored stone education

And THIS little thread has some useful info and advice as well.

thanks ma re. I looked at agillion stones last night online. There is so much out there! Naturally I want non heated stones, no treatments, but since this is my first purchase maybe I should focus on a good cut, good color... I have a few setting ideas in my head and I have a feeling the setting won''t be cheap, so I''m back to thinking a nice setting deserves a great stone. Thanks for those 2 links.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 1/9/2009 9:10:44 PM
Author: Pandora II
I''m pretty sure that Graff only deal with rubies, sapphires and emeralds - they don''t use any of the less well-known coloured stones.

I found that museum collections were good places as well - granted I live in London and so have easy access to some amazing rocks, but if you are ever in an area with a good natural history museum do take a look at the gemstones.

The big auction house catalogues and websites can be interesting as well.

Graff has begun using other gems, including spessartites.

 

[ma re]

So, to recap, you''re after a decent sized pink or yellow stone with a lot of scintillation, for your first purchase. And because it''s a first purchase I''d go for something inexpensive, just to train your eye on good colors and cuts. Now, pink sapphires or spinels of good colors aren''t exactly cheap, and they sure don''t come easily in those sizes. Garnets in shades of pink can be affordable, but they also don''t come this big very often. When it comes to yellow, a decent size and quality yellow diamond, sapphire, chrysoberyl or spessartite don''t come cheap (again except maybe treated sapphires), while mali and malaya garnets are hard to find this big. So I guess your best bet is a zircon. Now, zircons can chip relatively easily (compared to other gems) so they should be worn with care and not 24/7. Maybe a halo around it for protection wouldn''t be a bad idea. When it comes to color, try to find a nice yellow with no brown or grey to it, and as intense as possible. It''s best to set it in yellow gold to further deepen the color. But if you don''t like this idea for a stone, it''s your choice of course.