Can I have a colored stone intro?

[hoofbeats95]

I am so in LOVE with several stones people have just recently posted. I have never designed my own gemstone ring. But I want to try my hand at it. Where better to start than here on PS? I learned about diamond here and have an ering as a result. Not one that I LOVE unfortunately, but live and learn. I''m hoping I can create a gemstone ring with better results.

So can someone provide me an intro of where to get started?!

I love the pink asscher and pink tourmaline that mariedtiger just posted. I LOVE several of Charmypoo''s stones that were just posted. I''ve seen several spinels that I like. I don''t even know what a spinel is! Never heard of that before PS.

I know nothing about gemstones. I assume there is a clarity rating similar to diamonds? But how similar? And what about color and cut?

What about color treatments or coatings? Heck I have a ton of gemstone rings and I have no idea if they are color treated or coated or anything. I just bought what I liked. Some I still like. . . others not so much?

I know there are created and natural. Are most of what is posted on here natural? I don''t know what mine are - probably created judging by price, but I don''t really know come to think of it. Some were pretty pricey.

Who is trustworthy? And where do you go for a setting? I''d like a split shank setting. . . I think. I''m drawn to those so it seems. Right now anyways. Do you get the combo set locally?

I know the questions are kind of vague and also very introductory, but I haven''t found a lot of info threads in the colored forum. Lots of pretty pics, but not so much info. If someone could take the time to help me get started I would appreciate it!

 

[coatimundi_org]

Welcome!


Here''s a mini free online gemology course by Barbara Smigel. Great place to start. Also, if you like certain colors you can start learning stone by stone based on what you appreciate. It takes time, but is well worth the effort.

http://www.bwsmigel.info

 

[Lady_Disdain]

The world of coloured stones is vast and very interesting!

The stones here are, as per PS terms, natural (but there are a few I have suspicions of). Some are untreated, others have minimal treatments, a few are heavily treated (blue topazes, for example). A good vendor will describe any treatments the stone has or that is suspected (for example, most tanzanite is heated at the source so many vendors will assume it is heated unless it has a certificate that says otherwise or very good control of the supply chain). If you want to buy in e-bay or less reputable vendors, it is a buyer beware world. Read a lot about your desired gem and train your eye to recognize windows, photoshopped colours, bad cut and too good to be true bargains. I really recommend going through a good vendor to get a good quality stone at a fair price (some of the vendors in the list are downright cheap for their quality!).

Clarity can be expressed in the same scale as diamonds, but many good vendors just state eye clean, flawless at 10x or included (usually with a description of the inclusions).

As for cut, there really isn´t a cut quality grade like the major labs use for diamonds. Remember that different stones have different RI so the ideal angles for diamonds are applicable to other stones. Generally speaking, you will find far less information on coloured stones cut than in diamonds. WHile many stones are cut into ovals to maximize yield, you will also see a lot more variety of cuts than in diamonds. A lot of cutters develop new cuts to explore optical properties of the different stones, showcase colour or for beautiful shapes. Check Precision Gems, John Dyer, Jeff White and Jeff Graham for some amazing cuts.

Windowing is something you will read a lot about here in ps. This reffers to a stone that was badly cut, so that light goes straight through, instead of being reflected back. This is usually done to increase the weight of a stone or to have a greater spread for a given weight. A good cut will improve the colour (usually increasing saturation but overly dark stones can be cut to lighten them) and performance of a stone.

"Native" cut is a (incorrect!) term used to describe stones cut in the place of origin, implying bad meet points, cutting for weight and generally bad cut. Precision cutting is used for cutting (usually american or european, but not necessarily) for maximum visual impact. Not everyone agrees that weight should be sacrificed for excellent cutting (specially when very expensive, fabulously coloured pieces) and discussion on this theme can get heated (I am a cut girls myself - what is the use of weight that doesnçt contribute to the looks

)

Of course, since we are talking about coloured stones, colour is very important! Each stone type has a "most desireable" colour, but personal taste is also very important. Usually, stones without a greyish or brown cast are more desirable as are "pure" colours (ie., blue instead of purplish blue, but many stones have a particular hue that is more valuable). Saturation is another common term used in describing colour - it refers to how light or dark it is. Imagine the colour converted to greyscale: any colour can be light or heavily saturated.

Each person has their own order of importance for the 4Cs, but generally colour is considered the most importants. Some stones are rarely found in larger sizes, so size becomes very relavant to the price (demantoid and hauyne, for example) while others are frequently found in large chunks (amethyst and citrine are easily available in +20cts stones). A flawless emerald is extremely rare and most spess has sugar like inclusions. Cut and carats can sometimes (not always, specially in the hands of a master cutter who can maximize both cut and yield). I recommend that you think about each of the variables and how important they are to you to help you decide what kind of stone you like. This will help you stay within a budget (since I am a colour girl all the way, I stay away from rubies: the kind of saturation I like is just way out of my budget!).

You didn''t ask about hardness, but this is crucial! Some stones are harder (sapphire, spinel) while others are very soft (apatite). This means that some stones just are suitable for a ring which is worn often, others should be set in a pendant only and a few are collector stones which look very pretty but should stay in a display case. I try to stay with stone harder than 7 on the Moh scale (diamonds are 10) for rings, but I am willing to go lower for pendants. Some stones can also split easily because of cleavage planes. Tanzanite is the best example of this...

Judging by the number of times I have used "generally", "usually" and "normally", you can get the idea that coloured stones are much more complicated world than diamonds (or I am just a bad writer

). The best recommendation is to read a lot on the subject and to look at a lot of stones, both very high end such as Richard Wise´s or Pala and the more accessible ones. There are many informational sites and fora on the internet. Richard Wise´s Secret of the Gem Trade is a very good book.

Once you choose your stone, of course you will want to set it. Or not. Many people around here have collections of unset gems, which often sounds strange to outsiders but is oh so compulsive! (Yes, I suffer from this as well). You can have a setting custom made by a jeweller (usually the more expensive route, but etsy has good artisans at reasonable prices depending on the style you like), have your jeweller order a semi mount casting from a catalogue such as Stuller or Adwar or buy a semi mount from E-bay (there are a few Chinese vendors that have decent quality and good price - Lord of Gem Rings has a good following in PS). Your local jeweller can set the stone for you, charging a setting fee.

Most important of all, enjoy the journey!

 

[Harriet]

Great intro, Lady Disdain. The only thing I have to add is that one should look at as many coloured stones as possible. If there is a patient vendor in your area, ask him/her to show you various examples of the species of stone in which you're interested.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

I can''t add to Lady Disdain''s fantastic explanation, but I wanted to add my 0.02 as someone who''s been in your same spot a few months back, when I was starting my first colored stone project and pretty much knew nothing (I didn''t know what a spinel was either!)

I learned a lot more from reading all the threads since, but I found that it was easier to start the project I narrowed what I was looking for (ex. I definitely wanted a blue stone, either a sapphire or an aqua). I didn''t know how to judge a well-cut or well-colored stone, so I e-mailed some cutters that were trusted by PSers (Jeff White, Richard Homer, Barry Bridgestock, Dan Stair), and asked them to find something for me in my desired color, cut, and budget range, and went from there. Richard found me a lovely sapphire cushion which is what I ended up with, and then went through various sites (WF, James Allen, etc.) looking for a setting (and asking plenty of PSers for advice on the way). Even now, I tend to stick with the cutters rather than looking for a well-cut stone on my own, since I"m still pretty new to all this.

Is there any particular color or shape you''re looking for?

 

[hoofbeats95]

Wow! This could be quite complicated. I haven''t looked at the online course yet, but am absorbing what Lady posted. I will be doing some research for sure.

I tend to gravitate towads stones in shades of blue and green (blue/green is good too!) and also pinks! I tend to like cuts that are squarish. But I''m open to anything. I actually have a pathetic Aqua from Macy''s. The setting is unique and the side diamonds are horrible. But I''d like to find a stone to replace that one in the current setting. It''s a trillion cut, but I have no idea how to go about knowing what will fit into it. But for a new ring I''d like a square or rectangle shape stone with a split shank mounting.

Lady what is RI? And how are blue topaz treated? I have one and I''d love to have another. Though I''m exploring other blue stones. Is treatment bad?

I''m curious about spinels. They seem to come in lots of colors and seem to be suitable for a ring. Maybe I should look into those?

Brown Eyed Girl - I love the stone in your avatar. No clue what it is, but I love the color. (And the shape for that matter!)

Everyone on PS seems to be able to spend quite a bit of money on their jewelery. I''m prob more conservative (or more poor) than most. So I won''t have a large budget. But I will drop money for good quality. That''s the only think lacking from this board. I wish I knew how much some of these gorgeous rings cost you guys! But I looked at the thread about the new stones at that AC site. LOTS on there that I liked at reasonable prices. But of course all sold.

 

[platinumrock]

Lady_Disdain could not have said it any better. I cannot stress enough the importance of researching the sellers. Make sure you choose an honest and reliable one that offers a full refund if you need to return a stone for whatever reason. What you see on the photos may not match what you get in real life, especially with different lighting conditions.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 1/2/2009 8:07:13 PM
Author: hoofbeats95
Wow! This could be quite complicated. I haven''t looked at the online course yet, but am absorbing what Lady posted. I will be doing some research for sure.


I tend to gravitate towads stones in shades of blue and green (blue/green is good too!) and also pinks! I tend to like cuts that are squarish. But I''m open to anything. I actually have a pathetic Aqua from Macy''s. The setting is unique and the side diamonds are horrible. But I''d like to find a stone to replace that one in the current setting. It''s a trillion cut, but I have no idea how to go about knowing what will fit into it. But for a new ring I''d like a square or rectangle shape stone with a split shank mounting.


Lady what is RI? And how are blue topaz treated? I have one and I''d love to have another. Though I''m exploring other blue stones. Is treatment bad?


I''m curious about spinels. They seem to come in lots of colors and seem to be suitable for a ring. Maybe I should look into those?


Brown Eyed Girl - I love the stone in your avatar. No clue what it is, but I love the color. (And the shape for that matter!)


Everyone on PS seems to be able to spend quite a bit of money on their jewelery. I''m prob more conservative (or more poor) than most. So I won''t have a large budget. But I will drop money for good quality. That''s the only think lacking from this board. I wish I knew how much some of these gorgeous rings cost you guys! But I looked at the thread about the new stones at that AC site. LOTS on there that I liked at reasonable prices. But of course all sold.

Hoofbeats, thanks! the stone in my avatar is my latest - a cushion blue-green tourmaline cut by Jeff White. I have a couple other stones from him, and he is seriously wonderful and talented. It was offered on his last Gemscoop (it''s his members-only newsletter he sends out periodically with new gemstones - you can register to get on his website - whitesgems.com). Keep an eye out in the next couple days - I have tons of pictures of it that i need to post as soon as I get back and find my camera USB!

I think spinels are really pretty - Frekechild just got a gorgeous lavendar/blue spinel for her e-ring, and they come in a variety of colors. I also like tourmalines for the variety - I have that blue-green one and a dark pink one, as well as a bright green one. I think spinels, tourmalines and sapphires are good bets for both blue and pink shades, and you can also look into well-cut aquas.

 

[FrekeChild]

Thanks for the shout-out BEG! Link to SMTR for my ering

I want to address budget, since that seems to be a concern of yours. I'll warn you first off, that FI felt very cheap for what he bought for me. However, I picked out the stone so it was exactly what I wanted, and I picked a relatively cheap metal (14kt white gold) because every jeweler I know works extensively with it (not so much with Palladium, unfortunately) and because I wanted my ring to be extremely budget friendly. He is a PhD student and I am an undergrad, so money is not exactly plentiful for us.

Ok, now this is a precision cut round spinel from Barry Bridgestock. It is 1.2cts and 6.5mm. The cost for the stone was exactly $180--including shipping AND Barry threw in a rockin' stone holder because I told him FI was clumsy. And the stone has a gray mask (undertone) to it, which most people wouldn't appreciate, but I adore it because it makes my stone that much more interesting and gives it another color to shift to. But most consider this a negative aspect to stone color, so it lowers the price by quite a bit.

The setting is a Vatche Royal Crown replica in 14kt, and a size 6.5. The setting was $230 (he got a discount for not financing, it was originally $285), to set the stone in the setting it was $30, and the grand total there with tax is $284.10.

So the grand total for my ering was $464.10. Not too shabby right? (Poor FI had more than double of that saved. I told him to save it for wedding bands. Plus I would like to adjust the prongs on my setting a little bit.) And I can't tell you how much attention it captures. People have asked if it was a blue diamond because it sparkles so much.

So many of these rings are pretty pricey (I'm guessing anyway, from what I've learned and researched over the past year) but some are much more reasonable than you'd think by looking at them--and especially when you compare them to mall jewelers. Sapphires especially are notably different, in mall stores, they are these black opaque THINGS that don't sparkle and you can't even tell if they have facets. Then you see stuff here like Catmom's sapphire ring which has AMAZING color change and is super sparkly, and these rings totally change your perspective on what sapphires can REALLY look like.

So yeah, colored stones are intimidatingly complicated. Most people that go from diamonds to colored stones don't realize the complex nature of all of the different varieties of them, not to mention the rarity issues of color, clarity, cut and carat size.

There was an amazing blue spinel that was at Cherrypicked.com and the color was just incredible here it is that is pretty big at 2.63cts, an amazing color of blue, with a kind of funky oval cut, and possibly a tiny bit of a clarity issue. But the color and the size are immediately reflected in the price at $19,500. Mine is kind of a funky color blue, with that gray mask, a little bit less than half of the size, almost flawless clarity, impeccable cut, and a measly $180. So little things (depending on your taste) can make the price vary wildly.

As with diamonds, you sometimes have to make sacrifices to get what you want, but the one thing that I would recommend staying true to is what you decide you like.

The best way to learn though, is to see as many stones in real life and online as you possibly can. That proved invaluable to me because most of the dang stones where I live suck pretty badly, so I was able to learn what I didn't like very quickly! (Seriously, the only spinel this one place had was synthetic, and they thought that "there is no such thing as natural spinel." Hahahahahaha!!!!!)

But don't be afraid to ask questions! We are here to help! And we'll give you our opinions until the cows come home!

(Sorry that got so long...)

 

[ma re]

After that essay from Lady Disdain it''s hard to add anything, but I''ll give it a try

To introduce yourself to diferent varieties of gemstones I recommend www.gemstone.org. It''s a very informative site and one of the first I ran into online. In their "gem by gem" section you will find articles about individual gem varieties, along with pictures and a description of why are they valuable. They also have an image library that you can browse to see how what looks like.

As you probably noticed (go figure...) the subject of colored stones is vast. It''s way too complicated to be explained in a few posts and one needs to find ways of getting the right information. Even after years of education gemologist have a lot to learn and really never stop doing so. To get the grasp of quality I recommend that you find some online seller (multicolour.com, gemselect.com, awesomegems.com, forevergemstones.com...) pick any variety and sort the stones from the most expesive to the least expensive. Browse down the list and soon you''ll start noticing diferences in color and clarity. That''s how you''ll start to understand the diference between a good quality stone and a no quality one. There are many informative sites out there, and some that come to mind are palagems.com and suwagem.com. The first one has articles and buying guides (quality guides) about gems, and the other one has (among other things) articles on individual gem varieties along with quality scales, explenations of value in fine jewellery and much more.

Have fun and happy hunting

 

[CharmyPoo]

I know nothing and have lots to learn but here is my advice. Go for quality over quantity. Be very project focused and know what you want the outcome to be - ex. type, color, shape, setting. Once you made up your mind, go find what you are looking for at the best price. In my search, I have been so impressed with Jeff White (http://www.whitesgems.com/) although I didn''t buy anything from him.

My mistake was going crazy. I went on eBay and found so many options at seemingly low prices. I started buying non-stop and it was very very difficult to say that is enough - I kept thinking .. what is a few more dollars. The problem is that it really adds up. I have more gemstones now than I will ever set into jewelry. I have went back to my purse buying obsession (which is a far more costly probem). Buying from eBay can also be hard, I got some amazing stones at great prices but I also got a lot of crap. The ones I love .. I really love.

I know I have painted a crazy shopaholic picture of myself. I swear though I am not that bad .. I have no debt other than my mortgage and have decent savings.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/3/2009 4:04:00 AM
Author: FrekeChild
Thanks for the shout-out BEG! Link to SMTR for my ering
[SNIP]
Ok, now this is a precision cut round spinel from Barry Bridgestock. It is 1.2cts and 6.5mm. The cost for the stone was exactly $180--including shipping AND Barry threw in a rockin' stone holder because I told him FI was clumsy. And the stone has a gray mask (undertone) to it, which most people wouldn't appreciate, but I adore it because it makes my stone that much more interesting and gives it another color to shift to. But most consider this a negative aspect to stone color, so it lowers the price by quite a bit.
[SNIP]

Well, most blue diamonds have a grey mask, so your stone is in very good company!

Just one addition to Lady Disdain's overview. In terms of clarity, the GIA grading method (not anywhere near the standard it has become for diamonds) looks at the stone without magnification, and assigns the same grade classes used for diamonds (no FL/IF, starting at VVS) based on whether the type of stone under consideration is normally free of inclusions, usually has some, or is almost always included. So a VVS emerald may be more heavily included than a VS aqua. Go figure...