New ring looks amazing except under harsh light like flashlight and strong direct sun rays

[Karen Unson]

Diamond specs:
1.73 ct
natural diamond
GIA certified
J, SI2
faint fluorescence
clarity grade is based on clouds that are not present
Excellent cut
Very good polish
Excellent symmetry
table 57%
depth 62.4%
thin-medium faceted
36 degrees crown angle
41 degrees pavilion angle


I just received my ring and I looove how it looks. I tried as best as I can to find a diamond within my budget so I do expect some flaws of course. My first impression was "OMG! It looks perfect and so clean!" Then I pointed a flashlight at it about 2 inches away and it looked different. It does the same in direct harsh sun rays. It does not do this in soft sunlight though, only in harsh direct light. So am not sure if I got a good or bad diamond. I love it though and have worn in out and it has looked amazing in all the different lightings I have been in so far. I especially love it in the car it looks like glass it's so clear.

I also took it to a jewelry store and the guy that is in charge of repairing jewelry looked at it with his magnifying glasses and he exclaimed what an excellent cut my stone had and assumed it was a vs clarity. I told him it is not a VS it is actually a SI and he was surprised. He had no mention of haziness.

I have spent countless hours researching and reading posts watching videos and I don't think this is a case of "the diamond is so perfectly cut that it turns dark in direct sunlight". I think this is more of a case of there are clouds present. But why does it look so clear without direct light and then all of a sudden not in harsh direct light? Can anyone help explain why it turns hazy with the flashlight? It is not a UV light it's just a regular flashlight.

I want to share a video but am new here and not sure how to do so.

 

[DejaWiz]

Hello and welcome to PriceScope, Karen Unson!
What you are seeing is likely the combination of a steep-steep pavilion and crown angle pairing, the clarity based on clouds, and the fluorescence.

Diamond Clarity: Everything You Need To Know

What is the best diamond clarity? Our extensive guide and interactive diamond clarity chart shows you everything you need to know.

www.pricescope.com

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

 

[Karen Unson]

Thank you! I am curious though if I am using a regular flashlight it shouldn’t emit any UV so it shouldn’t activate the fluorescence right? In the second photo the light source is a flashlight not sunlight.

 

[DejaWiz]

Thank you! I am curious though if I am using a regular flashlight it shouldn’t emit any UV so it shouldn’t activate the fluorescence right? In the second photo the light source is a flashlight not sunlight.

You're very welcome.
It's a combination of the things I mentioned, the clarity based clouding and the steep-steep pavilion-crown angle pairing is enough to cause the appearance without a substantial UV component being present.

 

[Karen Unson]

You're very welcome.
It's a combination of the things I mentioned, the clarity based clouding and the steep-steep pavilion-crown angle pairing is enough to cause the appearance without a substantial UV component being present.

what makes my pavilion crown steep steep? I checked online and it looks like they are pretty good numbers? Here is a chart that I found, I am no expert but I want to learn what makes you say it is steep so I know what I am not seeing. Is it because my crown angle is 36? That's the only number that I see that is off the chart by 1. Sorry I don't mean to question I just really want to understand what makes it steep like you said.

 

[yssie]

It’s all about the combinations. We aim for a shallower crown with a steeper pavilion, or vice versa. Vs a shallower crown and shallower pavilion, or steeper crown and deeper pavilion.

Totally agree that it’s the clarity based on clouds not shown that’s primarily driving this effect though. Keeping the stone as clean as you can will help a ton!

 

[headlight]

The clouds are creating haziness.
What is your intention of asking for opinions?… are you thinking of returning the diamond?

 

[LilAlex]

"the diamond is so perfectly cut that it turns dark in direct sunlight".

Even well-cut gems can look terrible in full sun. Are you worried about the haziness or the blacking out? I'm getting two different issues from the post. The former I would not expect whereas the latter can be better explained away, imo. Caveat: I am more of colored-stones person but I have observed this in otherwise decent diamonds.

 

[Karen Unson]

The clouds are creating haziness.
What is your intention of asking for opinions?… are you thinking of returning the diamond?

I want to learn what is causing it to educate myself. And yes I have the option to return it but I haven't decided on that yet.

 

[Karen Unson]

It’s all about the combinations. We aim for a shallower crown with a steeper pavilion, or vice versa. Vs a shallower crown and shallower pavilion, or steeper crown and deeper pavilion.

Totally agree that it’s the clarity based on clouds not shown that’s primarily driving this effect though. Keeping the stone as clean as you can will help a ton!

Here are my diamond's measurements. Would you mind pointing out what number is throwing things off? So sorry I am a dumb dumb and cannot figure it out myself. I need help. Thank you so much!

 

[Karen Unson]

Even well-cut gems can look terrible in full sun. Are you worried about the haziness or the blacking out? I'm getting two different issues from the post. The former I would not expect whereas the latter can be better explained away, imo. Caveat: I am more of colored-stones person but I have observed this in otherwise decent diamonds.

I think I am more worried about haziness in harsh lighting. Also I just want to learn about it. What is causing it. Is it a bad diamond? Why is it so sparkly in most conditions except harsh direct light? Should I return it? etc.

 

[yssie]

If you have the option to return, absolutely. Better to have a diamond that doesn't go hazy than one that does, right?

See the 36 and 41? If it was 36 and 40.6 that'd be great. Or 33 and 41. Just examples. You might not think 0.4degrees can make a huge difference - but it can.

 

[Mreader]

Here is a thread about clarity based on clouds:

Clarity grade based on clouds not shown

Hello everyone, first time user of pricescope and nice to meet you all! I've come across a James Allen diamond (SKU 13274230) that has seemingly met my budget and specs: Carat: 1.52 Cut: Triple AGS 0 Colour: G Clarity: SI1 HCA score: 1.7 Upon closeup view of 360 video i noticed some...

www.pricescope.com

Someone in the thread has similar observations that you have about it looking hazy in certain lighting. Most PSers advise against buying stones with clarity based on clouds not shown, which is a different animal from just “additional clouds not shown”. The clarity based on is the key.

 

[Karen Unson]

If you have the option to return, absolutely. Better to have a diamond that doesn't go hazy than one that does, right?

See the 36 and 41? If it was 36 and 40.6 that'd be great. Or 33 and 41. Just examples. You might not think 0.4degrees can make a huge difference - but it can.

Gotcha! Thank you so much!

 

[DejaWiz]

^ it was stated prior: there is an inverse relationship between the pavilion angle and the crown angle. As one moves towards shallow, then the other should move towards steep for best results.
Rough examples:
PA 40.6 with CA 35
PA 40.8 with CA 34
PA 41 with CA 33

Here is Garry Holloway's (Garry H (Cut Nut) ) site detailing the intricacies of the inverse relationship:

HCA - defining ideal cut diamonds

www.diamond-cut.com.au

Since you have the option to return this diamond, then I would strongly urge you to consider doing so...if not just for the clarity based on clouds, but also for the steep-steep combo causing noticable light leakage and some cut precision concerns that I see in the form of pavilion twist, seen in the pictures.

I can promise this: once you do happen upon a diamond that bears all of the following traits: no clarity issues, a satisfied inverse relationship, higher cut precision, and much stronger light return, then you will see and love the very noticeable difference every...single...day.

We are consumers looking out for our fellow consumers (human to human): we have nothing to earn or gain other than helping each other find the absolute best cut and performing diamonds available.

 

[Karen Unson]

Gotcha! Thank you so much!

Here is a thread about clarity based on clouds:

Clarity grade based on clouds not shown

Hello everyone, first time user of pricescope and nice to meet you all! I've come across a James Allen diamond (SKU 13274230) that has seemingly met my budget and specs: Carat: 1.52 Cut: Triple AGS 0 Colour: G Clarity: SI1 HCA score: 1.7 Upon closeup view of 360 video i noticed some...

www.pricescope.com

Someone in the thread has similar observations that you have about it looking hazy in certain lighting. Most PSers advise against buying stones with clarity based on clouds not shown, which is a different animal from just “additional clouds not shown”. The clarity based on is the key.

Yes I have seen that as well. Although I must say this diamond performs so so well in all other lighting conditions except the direct flashlight and direct HARSH sun (not sunset golden hour mild sun. Thankfully it still looks good in that lighting) And I cannot see any yellow tint even if it is a J color. T

^ it was stated prior: there is an inverse relationship between the pavilion angle and the crown angle. As one moves towards shallow, then the other should move towards steep for best results.
Rough examples:
PA 40.6 with CA 35
PA 40.8 with CA 34
PA 41 with CA 33

Here is Garry Holloway's (Garry H (Cut Nut) ) site detailing the intricacies of the inverse relationship:

HCA - defining ideal cut diamonds

www.diamond-cut.com.au

Since you have the option to return this diamond, then I would strongly urge you to consider doing so...if not just for the clarity based on clouds, but also for the steep-steep combo causing noticable light leakage and some cut precision concerns that I see in the form of pavilion twist, seen in the pictures.

I can promise this: once you do happen upon a diamond that bears all of the following traits: no clarity issues, a satisfied inverse relationship, higher cut precision, and much stronger light return, then you will see and love the very noticeable difference every...single...day.

Thank you! Yes I am sure I would love that!

 

[Dreamer_D]

The harsh light makes the clouds evident, which causes the haze. You can find a diamond without those clouds that will never look hazy. It will cost more for the size you have, as this one was likely discounted because of the haziness. So you have to decide how you feel about the trade-off -- size vs haziness.

 

[Karen Unson]

The harsh light makes the clouds evident, which causes the haze. You can find a diamond without those clouds that will never look hazy. It will cost more for the size you have, as this one was likely discounted because of the haziness. So you have to decide how you feel about the trade-off -- size vs haziness.

Yes I agree. Although I did find a 2.06ct diamond but it is a K color Si1 clarity IGI certificate but on the IGI cert it barely has any inclusions in the drawing where they mark the areas with red lines or circles. But there was one big dotted red circle in the middle of the diamond almost as large as the entire table and I wonder does that red dotted line circle represent clouds? There is no descriptipn of what type of inclusions in IGI cert only red drawings.

 

[Dreamer_D]

IGI is not as strict as GIA, so the color and clarity grades will not be equivalent to GIA. K SI1 with IGI could be M SI2 with GIA. I would not personally buy a natural diamond with an IGI report as the laxity of the report is basically intended to trick consumers into thinking they are getting better than they are, and paying more for the gem than they would be willing to pay if it had a GIA report.

 

[Karen Unson]

IGI is not as strict as GIA, so the color and clarity grades will not be equivalent to GIA. K SI1 with IGI could be M SI2 with GIA. I would not personally buy a natural diamond with an IGI report as the laxity of the report is basically intended to trick consumers into thinking they are getting better than they are, and paying more for the gem than they would be willing to pay if it had a GIA report.

This is also what I learned through reading comments and watching videos but a friend who works at the jewelry district in downtown LA since 2002 told me today that IGI is actually becoming reliable now. She said that IGI actually uncovered a fraudulent 6ct lab grown diamond with a natural diamond GIA inscription. I know IGI is for profit and am really doing my best to be careful but am not going to not look at diamonds just because they were certified by IGI. It wouldn’t be my preferred cert but I would still give it a chance while keeping in mind that they could have graded it higher than what it is.

 

[Dreamer_D]

IGI diamonds cost less than GIA for the “same” specs because they are not accurately graded. They are not a “deal”, they are inflated to make people feel better about their purchase. You could just look at LM color sI2 GIA graded stones and at least you would know what you were getting and be sure you were paying fair value.

 

[Karen Unson]

IGI diamonds cost less than GIA for the “same” specs because they are not accurately graded. They are not a “deal”, they are inflated to make people feel better about their purchase. You could just look at LM color sI2 GIA graded stones and at least you would know what you were getting and be sure you were paying fair value.

I did not say I would get a better deal from IGI I am simply saying I would not completely rule them out. I like to filter my search with GIA only and if nothing in my budget and my liking shows then I open the search up to other certs. Am sure there are many beautiful worthy diamonds with IGI certs.

 

[tyty333]

@Karen Unson If you let us (PSers) know where you got the stone and your budget we can see if we can find a better stone
that fits your specs.

If the vendor where you got it from doesnt have anything else in your spec range/budget we might have to look at other sites.
I think it is good to see what options you might have. Remember you will have this stone for a long time so it doesnt hurt
to get some help and see if there is anything better out there that fits the bill.

 

[lovedogs]

We can help you find better if you are open