Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differances

[John P]

Long-time Pricescope contributor and consumer-champion Neil Beaty.

JCK: Diamond Lab Issues Land on Local Newscasts
http://www.jckonline.com/2013/12/17/diamond-lab-issues-land-on-local-newscasts

Denver: "The Dark Side of the Industry."
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/diamond-expert-exposes-dark-side-of-the-industry

San Diego: "Buyer Beware."
http://www.10news.com/news/investig...bjective-judgments-in-an-unregulated-industry

If you hear distant applause from the south it's coming from me.

Cheers,

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

Thanks John. I actually hadn't seen the San Diego report until you posted the link and I was tickled to watch it. I wonder if it'll crop up anywhere else. It's sort of interesting how they're ever so slightly different while remaining basically the same and how a few tidbits were changed, like the misuse of the words 'appraisal' and 'certified'. I actually went into great detail about that with the lady doing the interview but it ended up on the proverbial cutting room floor. I guess that's what happens when you cut a 2 hour interview down to a 4 minute segment.

 

[Jim Summa]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

Nice job Neil!

 

[John P]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

Thanks John. I actually hadn't seen the San Diego report until you posted the link and I was tickled to watch it. I wonder if it'll crop up anywhere else. It's sort of interesting how they're ever so slightly different while remaining basically the same and how a few tidbits were changed, like the misuse of the words 'appraisal' and 'certified'. I actually went into great detail about that with the lady doing the interview but it ended up on the proverbial cutting room floor. I guess that's what happens when you cut a 2 hour interview down to a 4 minute segment.

I understand completely. As a professional educator I used to give interviews to newspapers, but started insisting on seeing final copy before it went to print. Here's why...

"The students are so excited about this achievement. This competition is one of the most intense and competitive in the nation. We are are humbled to be named the winners, especially among this amazing field of competitors. The hard work and pageantry you saw is mind-blowing. That can't be overstated. And it includes every team that made finals. Look around us. Any of the groups that competed in these finals is worthy of the top honors. What a show. I was blown away. Everyone was. Being named the champion among so many amazing teams is like winning the lottery. Congratulations to every team, and to all stakeholders. We're humbled. We're excited. We can't wait to celebrate..."

Read the whole quote. Then read only the parts in red, if the rest were left on the cutting room floor.
Sometimes a maverick journalist likes to create news, rather than report it.

Sorry for the off-topic. Back to the good stuff... Congratulations!

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

Good job Neil!
I understand your frustration. I helped with an investigative report for Fox in 2008. After spending 4 hours in my office,
they took the segment, didn't use if for 6 months then ran it for an entirely different purpose and edited and cut out important segments. It's what they do but it's not fair to us when all the facts must be told. It causes more confusion.

My feeling is that anything that helps bring out the facts to the consumer is a "plus."

Rock on!

 

[Tekate]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

I don't know you but I have read your posts and the posts from years ago.. you have done wonders for the consumer, thank you.. I know a LOT more about diamonds because you took the time to educate.. thank you!

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

Way Good Neil!

Now if the public would only pay attention...

Wink

 

[diagem]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

Way Good Neil!

Now if the public would only pay attention...

Wink

Great report Neil. I admire your corrective language.

Wink, I would be happy if the "paying attention" starts with the pro's

 

[oldminer]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

Neil, it all is worthwhile and your efforts are to be applauded and appreciated. You cannot control what the news media will do in terms of editing and the slant that they might give to a long dialogue of a good interview where they must edit to make the news that they believe their listeners will pay attention to. Bad news sells way better than good news.

On appraisal reports I provide the following text which I have come to believe is of importance, especially in the education of consumers: I encourage other appraises to copy or to provide similar text on their reports.

No lab, gemologist or appraiser claiming to use GIA diamond grading standards can prove they successfully duplicate GIA results. The GIA cannot replicate its own results in all cases due to the subjective nature of its grading system for color, fluorescence, clarity, and finish. Even the non-contact measuring devices typically employed to make physical measurements have some machine error and often are not well calibrated. For these reasons, no existing lab, gemologist or appraiser should promise to duplicate the grading of the GIA lab. It is possible to grade closely to GIA tolerances. Labs such as AGSL and GCAL most often report results very close to what GIA would report. There are several other major labs, both in the USA and worldwide, which appear to be using the GIA grading system, but the observation of their actual grading, by respected and experienced members of the diamond trade, strongly indicates otherwise. Qualified observers understand these labs are using their own grading structure and have succeeded financially by their abuse or misuse of GIA grading nomenclature. This problematic situation well suits some members of the trade, but often misleads the uninformed public into a poor buying decision.

 

[luvmysparklies]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

Neil, it all is worthwhile and your efforts are to be applauded and appreciated. You cannot control what the news media will do in terms of editing and the slant that they might give to a long dialogue of a good interview where they must edit to make the news that they believe their listeners will pay attention to. Bad news sells way better than good news.

On appraisal reports I provide the following text which I have come to believe is of importance, especially in the education of consumers: I encourage other appraises to copy or to provide similar text on their reports.

No lab, gemologist or appraiser claiming to use GIA diamond grading standards can prove they successfully duplicate GIA results. The GIA cannot replicate its own results in all cases due to the subjective nature of its grading system for color, fluorescence, clarity, and finish. Even the non-contact measuring devices typically employed to make physical measurements have some machine error and often are not well calibrated. For these reasons, no existing lab, gemologist or appraiser should promise to duplicate the grading of the GIA lab. It is possible to grade closely to GIA tolerances. Labs such as AGSL and GCAL most often report results very close to what GIA would report. There are several other major labs, both in the USA and worldwide, which appear to be using the GIA grading system, but the observation of their actual grading, by respected and experienced members of the diamond trade, strongly indicates otherwise. Qualified observers understand these labs are using their own grading structure and have succeeded financially by their abuse or misuse of GIA grading nomenclature. This problematic situation well suits some members of the trade, but often misleads the uninformed public into a poor buying decision.

This is OUTSTANDING verbiage! I will refer to this often! I get so sick of seeing the advertised "appraisal done by a GIA trained grader" or hearing "I took diamonds at GIA" and the stones clearly (and I mean to the naked eye) are much lower color(s) than what it is being sold as. Not going to even get into the other characteristics. I get it that grading is by nature going to have some subjectivity in that what one person sees another might not. But I have learned to steer clear of stones associated with these kinds of qualifiers because the characteristics wind up being just too far off. The GIA qualifiers/references just doesn't mean anything really because I have found the intent to be wrong in situations like this. Glad to have access to PS trusted jewelers that will be honest--even to the point of saying, "hey, I'm using what the actual GIA lab uses and have been trained by them. However, this is subjective and my results may not be exactly what the GIA might find." I trust this more than the above kinds of statements, because you're usually "in range" of GIA whereas the others are not and the GIA references are meant to convey a definitiveness that does not exist.

Great job Neil!

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

Way Good Neil!

Now if the public would only pay attention...

Wink

Great report Neil. I admire your corrective language.

Wink, I would be happy if the "paying attention" starts with the pro's

Sadly, with certain wonderful exceptions, that will not happen until it ceases to be profitable to lie and cheat the public. When those who play by the rules start to earn what those who do not, or at least close the gap, then those who are currently profiting by cheating will have the financial incentive to continue to do so.

It will take a LOT more Neil Beatys and much better and in depth reporting to start to make this happen. In the meantime, let us continue to cheer Neil Beaty and the incredible example that he is setting.

Wink

 

[ame]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

I am curious why AGL was not mentioned as a good lab in the reports, but maybe to not confuse the issue.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

I am curious why AGL was not mentioned as a good lab in the reports, but maybe to not confuse the issue.

I think they didn't want to confuse the issue (I'm assuming you mean AGSL. AGL is a completely different company and, by the way, they are an excellent lab although I don't think they do work with diamonds at all). We did talk about AGSL, and one of the examples I had of double graded stones was by GIA & AGSL and in that case it was GIA that gave it the 'higher' grade. We actually discussed and had examples of double grading from GIA, EGLI, EGL-USA, AGS and IGI as well as some appraisal examples.

 

[diagem]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

I am curious why AGL was not mentioned as a good lab in the reports, but maybe to not confuse the issue.

I think they didn't want to confuse the issue (I'm assuming you mean AGSL. AGL is a completely different company and, by the way, they are an excellent lab although I don't think they do work with diamonds at all). We did talk about AGSL, and one of the examples I had of double graded stones was by GIA & AGSL and in that case it was GIA that gave it the 'higher' grade. We actually discussed and had examples of double grading from GIA, EGLI, EGL-USA, AGS and IGI as well as some appraisal examples.

Nice far reaching waves Neil.....

http://www.idexonline.com/portal_FullEditorial.asp

 

[ame]

Re: Neil Beaty on ABC Denver & SD about lab grading differan

I am curious why AGL was not mentioned as a good lab in the reports, but maybe to not confuse the issue.

I think they didn't want to confuse the issue (I'm assuming you mean AGSL. AGL is a completely different company and, by the way, they are an excellent lab although I don't think they do work with diamonds at all). We did talk about AGSL, and one of the examples I had of double graded stones was by GIA & AGSL and in that case it was GIA that gave it the 'higher' grade. We actually discussed and had examples of double grading from GIA, EGLI, EGL-USA, AGS and IGI as well as some appraisal examples.

DOH, Yes, I mean AGS . Bad typing.