Need your advice on this Pear

[ssp721]

The main thing I'd be curious is if there is a noticeable change in color from white to tinted as you compare the belly and point regions of the pear.

I was able to get a response from my point of contact with this diamond in regards to changing of color throughout the stone..

He says "In regards to the color in the diamond; the gemologist did confirm that the diamond is a nice white color all throughout and there is no warmth in the point. So we have nothing at all to worry about."

I am taking his word on it.

 

[drk14]

Sounds good. I think this seems like the right pear for you.

Will you get a JA setting? Even if you do, I would suggest having them ship you the loose diamond first, so that you can view it in person before it is set.

 

[ssp721]

Sounds good. I think this seems like the right pear for you.

Will you get a JA setting? Even if you do, I would suggest having them ship you the loose diamond first, so that you can view it in person before it is set.

Yes, I have a good gut feeling about this, this is the one.

The setting, yes, thats the other half of the battle. I am looking to set into a Halo setting, I just know I want the halo and band to be thin, with pave style diamonds.

My plan was to buy a loose diamond online and purchase the ring/have it set elsewhere. I was thinking somewhere local, such as a jeweler or a brick and mortar.
Few of my friends have advised me to purchase from a BM store; prices can be flexible depending on what you buy and haggle and also convenient so that I can have it cleaned anytime I would want.
What would be some of the benefits of purchasing online vs BM? (I can see how online you would have more variety and better pricing)

sidenote. Very very interesting read on your theory about the ASET comparision--JA vs Diamcalc.

Thanks!

 

[drk14]

The setting, yes, thats the other half of the battle. I am looking to set into a Halo setting, I just know I want the halo and band to be thin, with pave style diamonds.
My plan was to buy a loose diamond online and purchase the ring/have it set elsewhere. I was thinking somewhere local, such as a jeweler or a brick and mortar.

I think this scenario comes up sufficiently often on PS that Gypsy has some stock advice that she'll copy and paste in response to posts like this...
If she doesn't come by and do the honors soon, try the Search function. If you can't find a relevant post from her, I'll try to help.

sidenote. Very very interesting read on your theory about the ASET comparision--JA vs Diamcalc.

Thanks. I think I'll be leaving most of the theorizing in that thread to the pros, though.

 

[ssp721]

I think this scenario comes up sufficiently often on PS that Gypsy has some stock advice that she'll copy and paste in response to posts like this...
If she doesn't come by and do the honors soon, try the Search function. If you can't find a relevant post from her, I'll try to help.

Doesn't look like Gypsy came around this thread. I tried to search some threads however they didnt answer all of my questions regarding buying a loose diamond separately and then purchasing a setting from a brick and mortar. (see my reasoning in previous post)

What would be the ideal process once I receive my loose diamond?--

1.Do I show a local jeweler/gemologist to authenticate the diamond meets the GIA report?
2. I want to go with a halo setting for my pear with a pave band in 14k white gold, what are things I should look out for?
3. Ive heard going down the custom work route, other than it will be 2-3x more expensive, I will not be able to insure the ring? Is this true? So I will be going with a pre made setting from a retailer..
4..Do I insure the loose diamond before I allow any brick and mortar retailer to perform work on it?
5. Do I get the diamond ring appraised before and after the ring is completed?
6. Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[drk14]

I think this scenario comes up sufficiently often on PS that Gypsy has some stock advice that she'll copy and paste in response to posts like this...
If she doesn't come by and do the honors soon, try the Search function. If you can't find a relevant post from her, I'll try to help.

Doesn't look like Gypsy came around this thread. I tried to search some threads however they didnt answer all of my questions regarding buying a loose diamond separately and then purchasing a setting from a brick and mortar. (see my reasoning in previous post)

OK, I found this post of Gypsy's, which may or may not be applicable to you. Were you thinking of buying a "stock" setting from the available inventory at a B&M, or having a setting custom-made for your diamond? The post below is about the pitfalls of choosing a vendor for a custom-made ring:

OKAY... so here is a general note (and I'm thinking I'm going to be cutting and pasting this often) about CAD work and your local jeweler.

Many people new to jewelry do not understand the disparity in the quality and skills of jewelry manufacturers and how much difference it can make in the product they give you. I'd like to explain take this chance to explain it to you from my perspective.

Here's the key: It's art. And you have to think of it as art. You can have a camera and take pictures? But your pictures and the pictures hanging in the Guggenheim are very different, right? Well it's the same thing with making and designing jewelry. Many people get confused think that it's just a matter of the right mechanics... halo, plus shank, plus little stones = same thing each time, from each person who has a CAD set up. It's very hard for people initially to grasp that there is such a disparity between the skills but most importantly the TALENT of the person designing their piece. And with CAD its even worse and more confusing because -- well it's just a computer program right? So they think that if my local guy has the same program and has some casting equipment then why not go with him? They really don't understand that there is artistry in CAD work too, and that a good CAD person is an ARTIST, not a mechanic. It's very frustrating for us because we really have some of the BEST CAD artists making our pieces on this site and when people come on here and they see the designs they think that it's a matter of replication and that anyone with the equipment and software can do it. And it's really not. Do you want someone making your jewelry is the equivalent of someone who just has a camera and takes pics or do you want the person who can take a camera and create art, who has an eye, a talent, something that can't be replicated or taught, but just is?

And that's just the artistry of it. The mechanics themselves are also very important as well. Casting is a great method, when done right, but a little bit of air can turn a casting into swiss cheese and make it fragile. Insufficient supports and balance in a piece can make a piece weak at certain stress points and even during regular wear and tear they can bend and warp. Going too thin on a shank can do that. Finish details and skills are extremely important too. And so are stone setting skills-- especially with colored stones. All of these mechanics and skills come from experience, and experience and skill demand a higher price just as with anything else. Your football team is in the Superbowl and has two quarterbacks to chose from. Do you want them to start to the kid right out of college who may be good or the guy with two Superbowl wins already? Which do you choose? And which one makes more? Of course you go for the experienced guy and of course you pay more for him. Why would you expect then, that with jewelry, that going with the cheapest quote is going to give you the same quality as paying more for better quality. You wear a ring everyday. With every movement it potentially takes damage, so don't you want something that's going to stand up that kind of wear? Of course you do. Well, you have to pay for that. If your local guy is a lot cheaper than one of the proven PS vendor quotes, there is a reason. I don't care what his sales pitch is, there is a reason he is so cheap.

If you want good CAD and CAST work-- work that is beautiful artistically but that also stands the test of time and is worth the time and effort and expense of custom--you really need to go with someone with a proven record of combining artistry and engineering successfully. Because you need both. Without art you end up with something that's as sturdy as a battleship, and just as pretty. Without engineering you end up with something beautiful that is damaged irrevocably through simple daily wear.

But what does a proven record mean? Does it mean a few yelp reviews from people who don't know anything about jewelry? From your friend who thinks her ring is sparkly and has no idea of the quality other than it's brand or lack there of... or worse, who just thinks it's pretty and that's all that matters. Who recommends a jeweler is a very important thing. A lot of our posters have experience with multiple projects, and have seen different examples of the type of work and really take the time to understand good workmanship and appreciate quality. So please understand when we make a recommendation we have nothing to gain, we are just doing this because we are enthusiasts, and we really want you to get the best quality you can for your budget and we'll try to help you. But you have to listen, too. It's a joint effort.

It's from this thread, which has some additional info and tips on doing a CAD project:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-jewelry-work-cad-and-cast-psa.175834/

 

[drk14]

Also, the first 10 posts in this thread contain very important information about pave and halos:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-online-retailer-for-a-custom-setting.203660/

 

[drk14]

Few of my friends have advised me to purchase from a BM store; prices can be flexible depending on what you buy and haggle and also convenient so that I can have it cleaned anytime I would want.
What would be some of the benefits of purchasing online vs BM?

I'm guessing you'll have less ability to haggle with a B&M jeweler over a setting, if you're not purchasing a diamond from them. Some B&M's will not even want to set an outside diamond, or may do so only grudgingly. Here's an example:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...diamond-and-setting-bought-separately.205862/

Niel has advised telling any B&M that your diamond is a family stone, to avoid unpleasantries.

On the other hand, I don't see why they wouldn't clean a ring that wasn't purchased from them (maybe for a small fee, or maybe for free if you browse their store while you wait), but I will leave others to weigh in with more definitive and accurate answers.

I will try to get to some of your other questions later, if no one else has.

 

[ssp721]

drk, thanks for all of the help. Ill be digging into the links you have posted.

I have a [side] question for you, back to the topic of my Pear loose diamond.

What do you think of the AGA/NAJA Cut Class Grader? How much would it help you decide on narrowing down your selections?

http://datlas.com/do-it-yourself-aganaja-cut-class-grader/

For the 1.7 J SI1 it gave me a total score of a 3A

Not to go too down the rabbit hole but I believe it is from the Girdle (being Slightly Thick-Very Thick) and the Crown Height (15.3%)
What does this all mean and how does it affect my diamond?

Thanks

 

[drk14]

1.Do I show a local jeweler/gemologist to authenticate the diamond meets the GIA report?

With a trusted vendor like PS, you probably don't need to worry about this (but see #5). Also, your GIA report is fairly recent (December 2013), so it's unlikely that the diamond has been damaged after the stone was graded. You could get yourself a loupe (or a camera that does macro photography, and try to identify some of the inclusions that can be seen in the GIA report and in the images on the JA website.

2. I want to go with a halo setting for my pear with a pave band in 14k white gold, what are things I should look out for?

For starters, see the pave thread that I linked above.

3. Ive heard going down the custom work route, other than it will be 2-3x more expensive, I will not be able to insure the ring? Is this true?

Where did you hear that? That's completely untrue. Of course you can insure a custom ring. Make sure you have an accurate description of the ring, including who made it, what materials were used, and the total replacement value. An appraiser will do this for you (see #5), and many insurers require an appraisal report anyway.

4. Do I insure the loose diamond before I allow any brick and mortar retailer to perform work on it?

Most insurers will not insure a loose stone, but Jewelers Mutual (Perfect Circle) will insure it during setting if you provide a description of the work that will be done. Depending on who makes the setting for you, they may have their own insurance coverage that will cover damage to the diamond during setting. Your safest bet is to get JM coverage and work with a jeweler who also has their own JM coverage (most of those recommended here do); with that scenario, if something happens, you will not get into a situation in which two competing insurance companies fight over who has to pay out. B&M's are unlikely to agree to accept any liability for damage to an outside diamond that they didn't sell, so make sure you have insurance coverage if you decide to pursue that route.

5. Do I get the diamond ring appraised before and after the ring is completed?

You can either get an appraisal done on the complete ring alone, or first get one on the loose stone, and then one for the completed ring. Without seeing the loose stone, appraisers can only estimate certain parameters that describe the diamond (especially carat weight, clarity, etc.), whereas you'll get a more complete appraisal report if the appraiser is able to inspect the loose diamond. Some appraisers may offer a package deal to do both parts of the appraisal at a price that would be lower than double the normal appraisal fee. Another advantage of having the loose stone appraised is that you'll get solid evidence that the diamond matches the GIA report.

This post from Denverappraiser (and the thread that it's contained in) contains useful information on finding a good independent appraiser:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...iginal-hrd-cert.203548/#post-3706449#p3705566

 

[ssp721]

drk, You have been of great help to me in this process. I cant thank you enough.

What do you think of my AGA cut grade question on my previous post? Does a thicker girdle and larger crown height affect a diamonds performance?

http://datlas.com/do-it-yourself-aganaja-cut-class-grader/

For the 1.7 J SI1 it gave me a total score of a 3A

Not to go too down the rabbit hole but I believe it is from the Girdle (being Slightly Thick-Very Thick) and the Crown Height (15.3%)
What does this all mean and how does it affect my diamond?

Also, how do I PM another member (private message)?
I would love if Neil and/or Gypsy or any pear experts swung by and gave me their blessings on this diamond. I am kind of having second thoughts, drk. I really like this stone for its size and price point but performance wise, Im not too sure.

 

[Sunstorm]

Pears are difficult. That said they are my favorite shape (well, aside from cushions but I own pears and do not own cushions) and my favorite stone is a pear. I am not sure why I favor them as I really cannot stand bowties.) I certainly love the shape but it is no easy task to find pears with almost no bowtie. I also cannot stand crushed ice facets towards the point and the wide area and they are very common in pears. I really prefer chunkier facets for the most part and I like chunky pears with a L:W around or just over 1.3. Sometimes longer pears with 1.5 or 1.6 can be really nice as well but it depends on so many factors in pears and really most of the time your eyes will tell you the story in this fancy shape. Your selected pear has an appealing shape and actually the bowtie region is very nice which I rarely think so but I do not love the top and bottom areas as I find the facets a bit crushed ice. I also worry that you picked out a color that is too low in a pear; as said before the color can be uneven. At this point I would not jump the gun but try to continue searching unless you are in a big hurry. Try to get it right the first time even if it is hard. I would recommend going for F-H in a large size probably towards the higher color range. Eye clean SI is fine, you can save there but most importantly the cut has to be superb and yes this is no easy task in a pear. If your significant other does not mind warmth then yes you can opt for a lower color but I would still be hesitant to go under H in a larger pear and if you insist on doing so make sure you get a good return policy.

A halo will look beautiful if done right. Another reason to stick with a whiter pear as otherwise the round shaped tiny melee will look stark white next to your center which is not very pretty. In general I recommend handforging but I realize that can be pricey in the US, I have seen beautiful handforged work in the US too from recommended vendors here and others can help you recommending experts of that. If you have any questions do not hesitate to ask. Hopefully others will join this thread too to help you.

 

[ssp721]

Your selected pear has an appealing shape and actually the bowtie region is very nice which I rarely think so but I do not love the top and bottom areas as I find the facets a bit crushed ice. I also worry that you picked out a color that is too low in a pear; as said before the color can be uneven..

Hey OVince, thanks for the honest answer. I too like some aspects of the diamond (such as the shape and belly region however Ive never liked the 'crushed ice' appearance in pears. This one has it and im not a big fan either. I just thought majority of pears had it in some way or another..
Regarding the color, I went down to a J to try to get a bigger stone. Given it is a J, it also has MEDIUM flouro. The gemologist verified that it appears closer to an I than a J thanks to the MED FL and it the color change is even; white across the entire diamond.
Youre right, I would certainly have to examine the stone with my own eyes and how it appeals to me. Good thing JA has a good return policy.

As for the melees in the halo, couldnt I opt for a lower color such as H? As this wouldnt offset the main piece so much?

Here are some alternate pears I found, trying not to jump the gun as quickly, I do have some time. Let me know your thoughts and if they are worth to check out in person.

1.http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/pear-diamond-1-59-Carat-J-color-GIA-certified/D-1YP7S8 I actually like this one

2.http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/pear-diamond-1-54-Carat-J-color-GIA-certified/D-CSSHQ2 Im not a fan, but you can see the unevenness of color in this at the tips and bottom, even though it says STRONG FL

3.http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.51-carat-i-color-si2-clarity-sku-319810 I like this, looks eye clean for SI2

Thats all that I could find..
Please help me find some more pears with better performance. I dont know where else to search for sites with actual diamond photos/videos other than Ritani, JA, GOG. This is getting pretty challenging..

Thanks!

 

[Sunstorm]

I will look at some of your option in detail and hopefully others will come around too to comment. I agree with you that most pears have weaknesses such as bowties and crushed ice in the tip especially, the problem I find with the stone you selected is that the transition in the faceting is not so smooth. The belly region has those larger chunkier facets but then there is a large contrast with the tip and top. Even if there is some crushed ice appearance the transition could be smoother, I would like to see more even faceting throughout.

Yes you could use lower quality melee, however, I have found that the quality of the melee makes a huge difference in halos and settings. The best melee are usually G+ and even if you go lower do not forget that they will be tiny little round brilliants which show any tint to a much lesser degree than a larger fancy shaped stone.

The fluor changes certain stones and does not others so much. I generally tend to stay away from too much fluor with certain exceptions. Again you have to see the stone to decide how much difference the fluor makes. I think it would be safer to go with a bit higher color and sacrifice weight or even clarity a bit. But again sacrificing clarity can be tough when you do not see the stones IRL. It may be the best to order several to inspect.I am also not sure what area you are located in but perhaps there are recommended vendors in your area where you could see the stones yourself. The other option is to buy several and return whichever you do not like.

I will look at your selected stones to comment but also do not forget that you have your preferences and ultimately you have to like what you choose. I agree that the long pear posted here was a really good performer and it had very attractive faceting. That said it is also too long for my taste just like for yours. There are objective and subjective factors and there is always more room for variation in fancy shapes.

 

[Sunstorm]

I too think the third option is not bad, the first one had even faceting but perhaps not as attractive a shape and facet pattern, it is also longer which you may not like. The third option also had relatively even faceting, a more attractive shape in my opinion and nicer facet pattern, looked eye clean to me and just by looking at the certificate quickly it appeared that the major inclusions are on the side and may be prongable. What I do like about these Ritani pears posted here is that they seem to have even facet patterns but I too find them too long and narrow. OTOH, if you choose to go with one the halo will make it appear wider. Still, the facets are a bit on the small side making them present a stronger crushed ice look than many other pears. Others have to chime in to recommend options and vendors to you, I cannot do that as a trade person but I can comment in general on the options that you or others are posting here, which can hopefully be helpful too.

 

[ssp721]

Im in the Chicago-land area

 

[ssp721]

Hey guys,

I wanted your opinion on another similar Pear I came across:

1.7 J SI1 with Strong FLUORO
Depth: 61.2
Table: 59
L/W Ratio: 1.5

http://www.uniondiamond.com/Pear-Sh...ified-170-Carat-J-Color-SI1-Clarity_AE0690436

Though Union Diamond does sell this diamond as a "Select Ideal" cut, which from my knowledge I know Pears or any fancies are not graded by cut.
However, I did get a chance to inquire about the diamond and the seller did give me some information:

"Ideal proportions and measurements, the Strong Blue Fluorescence makes the diamond face up much whiter, it is a very clean SI1, a 1.50 length to width ratio.

You are right Fancy Cuts do not have cut grades, neither did rounds until 2006, there are certain depth, table, length to width ratio’s numbers that we work with that typically give the best light return and scintillation."

Perhaps this pear is Select Ideal cut because of the AGA/NAJA cut grading for fancies? Im guessing it was graded a 1A

Thoughts on the facets and the tip/bottom (crushed ice) areas?
Thoughts on the Bow-tie?

Here are the cert and the pictures. To me, the pictures seems to have potential.
What do you guys think, potential or not?

 

[Sunstorm]

Well, I tell you very honestly that I really do not like what I am seeing on these pictures BUT pictures can be very bad quality and these probably are. I would say that it is pretty impossible with only these to go by. It further confuses me that on their webpage the photo shows a slightly different shape which is much more appealing to me. With only these photos I would pass but the diamond may not be bad IRL. I much prefer the selection tools that JA offers, video, ASET, etc., then you can tell much more about the diamond you are considering. I hope that Gypsy comes on here to help you find some options and then we could all talk further.

 

[ssp721]

Well, I tell you very honestly that I really do not like what I am seeing on these pictures BUT pictures can be very bad quality and these probably are. I would say that it is pretty impossible with only these to go by. It further confuses me that on their webpage the photo shows a slightly different shape which is much more appealing to me.

The picture on the website is a SAMPLE, they use it for all of their pears, and provide the actual photo upon request.

With only these photos I would pass but the diamond may not be bad IRL. I much prefer the selection tools that JA offers, video, ASET, etc., then you can tell much more about the diamond you are considering.

Yeah, I will try to see if they can give me the ASET and more higher quality images.

 

[ssp721]

Hey guys,
1.7 J SI1 with Strong FLUORO
Depth: 61.2
Table: 59
L/W Ratio: 1.5

Hey guys, Ive got another picture of this diamond...see below
Where are my Pear Experts at????

 

[ssp721]

Hey guys,

I feel like I'm talking to myself, where is everyone? Common guys..

Anyways, Ive found THE pear and Ive seen it myself in person.
Its a 1.74 J S12
9.98x6.7x4.33
ratio: 1.49
D: 64
T: 55
Med FL

The first 2 pictures show the diamond in a darker state than it is IRL.
Honestly the stone faces up nice and white, does not have any kind of yellow, brown or green tinge to it and incredibly the stone is EYE CLEAN for a SI2. No black inclusions or whatsoever. Is it real?
This stone was really difficult to get a hold of since the price was very very good (im just amazed), compared to the other 1.74 J SI's ive been reviewing.
I was not able to get an ASET, however, it does show a good amount of performance in different light settings.
Lastly, this stone has a really really tiny bow-tie, if that.
It was almost too good to be true on paper, so I had to see this in person.

Ive been working with a gemologist and my local jeweler and both have been saying it is a 'needle in a haystack'--positive way of course.
They've been blown away before (on paper) and after they saw it (physical exam)

What are your thoughts?

 

[Niel]

That last picture shows quite a difference in color. The tip seems much more concentrated. How do you feel about that IRL?

 

[ssp721]

IRL, Niel, it doesnt show that much of a color difference. I understand its a J, so it will show warmer in the tip more than the body.
But honestly, Its not that big of a difference.
I plan to set this in a halo with a V shape prong on the tip of the pear..

Here's another shot I just took.

What are your thoughts on the other factors?

 

[RandG]

Every diamond purchase is a balance. You give up in one realm to gain in another. Trust your instincts. Good luck!

 

[tyty333]

That stone doesnt look very good in your initial photos but it doesnt look to bad in these newer shots. Certainly looks a lot
more livelier.

If you saw it in person and didnt mind the color or the difference between the main body and the point color then you might have
found the right stone for you.

 

[Sunstorm]

I actually really like this pear. I did not like the first photos either if they were of the same diamond, these photos are much better. Pears are hard, do remember that but this is a pretty nice one, well cut with nice proportions and shape, facets are quite all right, of course I normally would tell you to stay away from a J in a pear but color is so subjective and I actually still like this one. Bowtie area is quite nice too. I would have passed based on the initial photos but now I think this is a good choice.

 

[drk14]

Hey ssp721,
Sorry, I've been away from PS due to dealing with my own issues. Don't have much time to post now either.

I didn't really understand why you got cold feet about the first 1.7-J-SI1 pear (from JA):



The 1.7-J-SI2 from Union Diamond that you posted on 9/16 was IMO a mess (asymmetric shape, huge bowtie, crushed ice). Glad you let it go:



And now you have this 1.74-J-SI2 of unkown (to me ) provenance:



Is it GIA graded?

To be frank, I don't think this one is a better performer than your first one (it seems to be slightly more leaky). That being said, I don't think it's much worse either -- i.e., from the limited guesswork I can do based on the pictures, they both seem like pretty good options, as far as large pears go. So I'm guessing that this last pear is significantly less expensive than the first JA pear, due to the most recent one being SI2. If so, good for you.

In the end, with fancy cuts, you have to make the decision based on what your eyes see. If you like what you see, and have a good gut feeling about it then go for it (of course, assuming it's GIA or AGS graded, not CE, and purchased from a trustworthy vendor who has a palatable return/upgrade policy).