shape
carat
color
clarity

Need Urgent Advice.

Cr3rApes

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
2
Thank you all for the suggestions.

It's not a cultural bias but rather her personal bias. Had it been the former I would have been able to avoid this as I did ask them previously if she or they had any preferences or requirements. I haven't seen many diamonds so I didn't know if it was truly eye clean. So I did take it to an independent appraiser who said it was eye clean and a nicely cut diamond. Thus I proceeded to send it to the jeweler who set it. So, it's been roughly 4 months since I purchased it. I will try to contact the vendor and see what if any recourse I have there.

It's her reaction that irks me and does have me reconsidering the proposal. She was happily showing it off to family and they were all admiring the ring for the first hour. But then she inquired about the specs and it all went south. I guess they looked up clarity grades online and saw that SI is the 2nd lowest so while they tried to comfort her it also turned a bit into an attack on me for being so careless.

I just don't know where her bias comes from though. We talked about diamonds before and she never mentioned color or clarity once. She just wanted something nice and sparkly. Maybe it's because we looked at some Zales diamonds before but I think they were all in the I range.

Can a laser inscription be polished off without adversely affecting the diamond? I am considering sending it to EGL or some other inferior lab and hoping they grade it VS1 or better. Perhaps they can add extra numbers to the inscription so searching the GIA database returns nothing. That may be the easiest and cheapest way out of this.

I will try to appeal to her and see if I can't rectify her bias but seeing as how we're both dismayed with how things turned out now isn't the time.
 

Gem Queen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
548
Wow. Wow. Wow. I think I would think twice... About everything. Take it to heart. You might be looking through a crystal ball right now and seeing your future. Something I think a lot of people wish they had in the beginning of their relationships and to recognize something isn't right
 

Shellcm

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
278
She trusts you so little when you are clearly much more educated on the topic than her. They had to look up clarity grades to know what it means FFS. I'd be furious.
 

mrs-b

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
11,860
Cr3rApes|1451270833|3967098 said:
Thank you all for the suggestions.

It's not a cultural bias but rather her personal bias. Had it been the former I would have been able to avoid this as I did ask them previously if she or they had any preferences or requirements. I haven't seen many diamonds so I didn't know if it was truly eye clean. So I did take it to an independent appraiser who said it was eye clean and a nicely cut diamond. Thus I proceeded to send it to the jeweler who set it. So, it's been roughly 4 months since I purchased it. I will try to contact the vendor and see what if any recourse I have there.

It's her reaction that irks me and does have me reconsidering the proposal. She was happily showing it off to family and they were all admiring the ring for the first hour. But then she inquired about the specs and it all went south. I guess they looked up clarity grades online and saw that SI is the 2nd lowest so while they tried to comfort her it also turned a bit into an attack on me for being so careless.

I just don't know where her bias comes from though. We talked about diamonds before and she never mentioned color or clarity once. She just wanted something nice and sparkly. Maybe it's because we looked at some Zales diamonds before but I think they were all in the I range.

Can a laser inscription be polished off without adversely affecting the diamond? I am considering sending it to EGL or some other inferior lab and hoping they grade it VS1 or better. Perhaps they can add extra numbers to the inscription so searching the GIA database returns nothing. That may be the easiest and cheapest way out of this.

I will try to appeal to her and see if I can't rectify her bias but seeing as how we're both dismayed with how things turned out now isn't the time.

Well this changes a lot of things.

If it's not cultural, and if she'd previously been showing it off to family and enjoying it herself, then she seems to be verging pretty heavily into the area of competitive snobbery. I can't see any reason the grading would make a difference other than that. And if they had to look it up online...then it's not as if they all had a long standing preference for a different grading, since it appears her family wasn't familiar with the various grades in the first place. So if general competitiveness is the issue, then I say beware, because that attitude could cross over into almost every area of your life.

What really strikes me though is when you say that her family was trying to comfort her. If she's upset, she should be turning to you for comfort. If she was leaning on her family for support - then where does that leave you every time you do something that displeases her? But - more to the point - she needed to be 'comforted'?? For a paper grading she couldn't see about a ring she previously loved? I really have nothing to say about this, but I can't think of a way to put a positive spin on it. This is up to you to resolve, of course - and I wish you luck. But...gees...tricky stuff and I'd be rethinking...a lot of things...

I'm really sorry this happened. But perhaps better now than later?
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
12,655
Cr3r, your response actually gives me some hope. Because if it's not her family pressuring her, and it's her conception that an SI1 is not "good enough", I think you can actually have a more in depth discussion with her, to explain the realities of buying an engagement ring when you have an actual budget. Try to make it as academic as possible.

This is how I would approach it.

Instead of telling her that you gave the purchase a lot of thought, and asking her to be "ok" with it, explain in detail your thought process. You started with a budget. You had to prioritize the characteristics from most important to the least. First, you focused on things that would be immediately noticeable to anyone, which is generally size, cut (whichever order you chose) and then color, and clarity last. Explain that it is cut that makes a diamond visually appealing, and how some diamonds that are poorly cut, even though of a very high clarity, are not beautiful. Because clarity is not something that can be easily seen, you did not make that number 1. Tell her you agonized over it because you wanted to give her the best of everything, but because you are not made of money and have a budget in your real life, you had to make the difficult choice.

Bring her on-line. Do searches with her and show her what you get. Explain in detail the parameters you followed to ensure an excellent cut. Use the HCA tool, and show her how that works. With all that information, explain how you arrived at the stone you did. Once she sees all the work and consideration you put into it, I can't imagine that she would be that unreasonable to ask you to magically come up with another $10K so that you can meet the trade up policy requirement. And since your futures lie together, I can't imagine she would want you to waste good money that can go toward getting her a bigger and higher clarity stone.

Armed with this information, you both can look upon this quest for a higher clarity stone to be a joint journey toward a future anniversary upgrade. I am hopeful for you. You can help her understand.
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,524
Cr3rApes|1451270833|3967098 said:
Thank you all for the suggestions.

It's not a cultural bias but rather her personal bias. Had it been the former I would have been able to avoid this as I did ask them previously if she or they had any preferences or requirements. I haven't seen many diamonds so I didn't know if it was truly eye clean. So I did take it to an independent appraiser who said it was eye clean and a nicely cut diamond. Thus I proceeded to send it to the jeweler who set it. So, it's been roughly 4 months since I purchased it. I will try to contact the vendor and see what if any recourse I have there.

It's her reaction that irks me and does have me reconsidering the proposal. She was happily showing it off to family and they were all admiring the ring for the first hour. But then she inquired about the specs and it all went south. I guess they looked up clarity grades online and saw that SI is the 2nd lowest so while they tried to comfort her it also turned a bit into an attack on me for being so careless.

I just don't know where her bias comes from though. We talked about diamonds before and she never mentioned color or clarity once. She just wanted something nice and sparkly. Maybe it's because we looked at some Zales diamonds before but I think they were all in the I range.

Can a laser inscription be polished off without adversely affecting the diamond? I am considering sending it to EGL or some other inferior lab and hoping they grade it VS1 or better. Perhaps they can add extra numbers to the inscription so searching the GIA database returns nothing. That may be the easiest and cheapest way out of this.

I will try to appeal to her and see if I can't rectify her bias but seeing as how we're both dismayed with how things turned out now isn't the time.

This is the smartest thing you can do. Be sure to get the diamond back from before you say anything like that, though, or she may try to keep it. I really think she and her family just gave you a glimpse into your future with her/them.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Lots of flags.

I'd run.
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,524
Gypsy|1451279182|3967155 said:
Lots of flags.

I'd run.

Just get the ring first, so she doesn't say it was a Christmas present.
 

mrs-b

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
11,860
LLJsmom|1451275427|3967132 said:
Cr3r, your response actually gives me some hope. Because if it's not her family pressuring her, and it's her conception that an SI1 is not "good enough", I think you can actually have a more in depth discussion with her, to explain the realities of buying an engagement ring when you have an actual budget. Try to make it as academic as possible.

This is how I would approach it.

Instead of telling her that you gave the purchase a lot of thought, and asking her to be "ok" with it, explain in detail your thought process. You started with a budget. You had to prioritize the characteristics from most important to the least. First, you focused on things that would be immediately noticeable to anyone, which is generally size, cut (whichever order you chose) and then color, and clarity last. Explain that it is cut that makes a diamond visually appealing, and how some diamonds that are poorly cut, even though of a very high clarity, are not beautiful. Because clarity is not something that can be easily seen, you did not make that number 1. Tell her you agonized over it because you wanted to give her the best of everything, but because you are not made of money and have a budget in your real life, you had to make the difficult choice.

Bring her on-line. Do searches with her and show her what you get. Explain in detail the parameters you followed to ensure an excellent cut. Use the HCA tool, and show her how that works. With all that information, explain how you arrived at the stone you did. Once she sees all the work and consideration you put into it, I can't imagine that she would be that unreasonable to ask you to magically come up with another $10K so that you can meet the trade up policy requirement. And since your futures lie together, I can't imagine she would want you to waste good money that can go toward getting her a bigger and higher clarity stone.

Armed with this information, you both can look upon this quest for a higher clarity stone to be a joint journey toward a future anniversary upgrade. I am hopeful for you. You can help her understand.

Perhaps you can. And perhaps you can't. Running back to mom and dad to be 'comforted' over a clarity issue they knew nothing about an hour earlier but were immediately willing to blame their future son-in-law for - unstopped by the fiancee in question - doesn't sound optimistic to me. But either way, the answer will tell you which way you should jump on this. If you explain and she understands and can be supportive (and, frankly, apologetic) - then great. And if you explain and knowledge makes no difference to attitude, then I'd cut and run.
 

ariel144

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
2,087
alamana|1451236172|3966823 said:
Andelain|1451201137|3966689 said:
OP, are you sure you want to marry into this family? I'm sorry to say this sort of thing, but this seems like a major red flag to me.

+1 to this. I'd advise anyone I know to trade her in (along with her whole family) instead of the diamond.

Ditto. Also let THEM pay for the upgrade. I've seen VS2 stones with buggars on the table. VS stones aren't always better than a great SI1 IMO. This family is ignorant of diamond quality based on clarity alone. Would she really want a lesser performing/poorer cut quality stone that is VS clarity?? Geesh....I would question what you are getting yourself into with this family. Slapping the giver of a $10,000 gift in the face is sad indeed. Their priorities are really screwy.

Show them this thread.
 
Q

Queenie60

Guest
I would reconsider the proposal if I were you. There are many red flags here. If they're ganging up on you about the ring, just imagine what the future could bring.
 

Andelain

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Joined
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Messages
3,524
ariel144|1451283255|3967178 said:
alamana|1451236172|3966823 said:
Andelain|1451201137|3966689 said:
OP, are you sure you want to marry into this family? I'm sorry to say this sort of thing, but this seems like a major red flag to me.

+1 to this. I'd advise anyone I know to trade her in (along with her whole family) instead of the diamond.

Ditto. Also let THEM pay for the upgrade. I've seen VS2 stones with buggars on the table. VS stones aren't always better than a great SI1 IMO. This family is ignorant of diamond quality based on clarity alone. Would she really want a lesser performing/poorer cut quality stone that is VS clarity?? Geesh....I would question what you are getting yourself into with this family. Slapping the giver of a $10,000 gift in the face is sad indeed. Their priorities are really screwy.

Show them this thread.

Only after he gets the diamond back!
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
54,316
diamondseeker2006|1451260400|3967022 said:
This may be the most important lesson you ever learn about communication in marriage. It is hard for me to understand proposing to someone who has such stringent requirements for a diamond yet you two never even discussed the subject (even in general)??? From here on out, never buy her anything unless you have attained her approval or asked her requirements first (just letting her pick it out is best). (I actually have very stringent requirements for diamonds myself! But my husband knows not to buy me a diamond without my approval first!)

I have to think the vendor will work with you if you are just slightly past the return period. (I hope newbies here read this a realize the importance in proposing before the end of the return period!) If they don't, then use 75% buyback from your vendor and start over...making sure she understands that the budget is smaller and a diamond with higher color and clarity will mean closer to 1 ct rather than 1.5 cts.


Yes I agree completely with DS's wise post. I think some of the PSers are being very harsh towards your FI (though I think her family has a lot of nerve and I think they should stay out of this as it is none of their business). Since she has such strict requirements you really need to purchase diamonds with her and not independently from her. I am so sorry you are going through this and IDK who you bought the diamond from but since they are a PS vendor perhaps once you explain everything that has happened they can make an exception to their double the payment trade up policy. I mean you only had the ring for a short time right? Please contact them if you have not already and see what you can do. Or perhaps really talking to her about how the diamond is eye clean and beautiful and how she was happy with it before she heard the stats would make all the difference.

Again just open and honest communication to work it out however you both decide is the best way to do that. Help her understand and don't judge her too harshly. Be her soft place to fall and be her best friend and show her what you were thinking and why you were thinking it. Allow her to learn from this experience as you are learning from it and guide her. A partner shouldn't judge so harshly but be there to lean on and help each other learn through the good and the bad. It is not so black and white as others are portraying this issue to be. If you can successfully work this out just think how better equipped you will be for the next issue and yes all relationships face adversity in some form or another. It is never a smooth road but one that you make smoother together as you travel the path.

Again I am so sorry but I don't think this is cause to end your relationship. Goodness, I cannot believe some of the harsh responses. It looks like many relationships in the beginning (and yes this is still the beginning in the grand scheme of things) where communication has to be improved. I bet lots of PSers would have problems with their FI purchasing a diamond without their input. She is just being honest. Maybe she did it in the wrong way and there was a softer better way to tell him but I appreciate the honesty and at least she didn't harbor resentment and let it build up hurting their communication and ultimately relationship. I wouldn't sacrifice their relationship without first trying to work this out and also improve future communications leading to a healthier relationship. Also I might have missed it but perhaps they are young and time and experience lends to maturity and therefore also improves the health of relationships in general. JMO and another point of view.

Or course I could be entirely wrong and she is just not the right person for you but based on what you have shared so far I don't feel it is enough info to make that call and certainly not our business to do so. ::)

Wishing you lots of luck with a successful resolution and hoping for a happy and healthy relationship you can build on and keep improving for a happy and healthy marriage.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
27,422
My first husband proposed to me with an ungraded, non-eye clean, lower colored diamond that rarely sparkled, in a plain
peg-head yellow gold setting. I knew he did the best he could in his budget (which was probably low). I didnt say a word. Heck,
I was happy to be engaged, and later on married. Just FYI...take it for what's worth.

Why would anyone want to ruin the joy of the moment? Why would anyone who loved you want to hurt you with a reaction like that? Why in front of her family? Things could have, and should have, been handled later. I know engagement rings can be emotional, but
I'm concerned that she/they responded in this way. I think lots of communication/discussion need to go on about this situation and
possibly discussions with a counselor present if you have seen some of this behavior in the past. I dont think I'm alone in saying that
this may be a bigger issue. I hope you both can work it out and come to an understanding. I wish you both well.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
54,316
tyty333|1451313063|3967285 said:
My first husband proposed to me with an ungraded, non-eye clean, lower colored diamond that rarely sparkled, in a plain
peg-head yellow gold setting. I knew he did the best he could in his budget (which was probably low). I didnt say a word. Heck,
I was happy to be engaged, and later on married. Just FYI...take it for what's worth.

Why would anyone want to ruin the joy of the moment? Why would anyone who loved you want to hurt you with a reaction like that? Why in front of her family? Things could have, and should have been handled later. I know engagement rings can be emotional, but
I'm concerned that she/they responded in this way. I think lots of communication/discussion need to go on about this situation and
possibly discussions with a counselor present if you have seen some of this behavior in the past. I dont think I'm alone in saying that
this may be a bigger issue. I hope you both can work it out and come to an understanding. I wish you both well.

tyty, if there is anything I have learned over the years it is just that one cannot say there is only one right way to behave or feel things. So just because you sucked it up and dealt with getting a ring less than what you desired at the time doesn't mean this is how this young lady should have behaved. We are all different. Yes things could have been handled better however this is what happened. Now there are some PSers saying walk away because you cannot come back from this and I disagree. I am not saying this relationship is a good one because IDK but I am saying based on this one incident I would not throw in the towel so to speak. Yes this can be part of a bigger issue but again it might not be. Who are we to say.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
27,422
missy|1451313393|3967286 said:
tyty333|1451313063|3967285 said:
My first husband proposed to me with an ungraded, non-eye clean, lower colored diamond that rarely sparkled, in a plain
peg-head yellow gold setting. I knew he did the best he could in his budget (which was probably low). I didnt say a word. Heck,
I was happy to be engaged, and later on married. Just FYI...take it for what's worth.

Why would anyone want to ruin the joy of the moment? Why would anyone who loved you want to hurt you with a reaction like that? Why in front of her family? Things could have, and should have been handled later. I know engagement rings can be emotional, but
I'm concerned that she/they responded in this way. I think lots of communication/discussion need to go on about this situation and
possibly discussions with a counselor present if you have seen some of this behavior in the past. I dont think I'm alone in saying that
this may be a bigger issue. I hope you both can work it out and come to an understanding. I wish you both well.

tyty, if there is anything I have learned over the years it is just that one cannot say there is only one right way to behave or feel things. So just because you sucked it up and dealt with getting a ring less than what you desired at the time doesn't mean this is how this young lady should have behaved. We are all different. Yes things could have been handled better however this is what happened. Now there are some PSers saying walk away because you cannot come back from this and I disagree. I am not saying this relationship is a good one because IDK but I am saying based on this one incident I would not throw in the towel so to speak. Yes this can be part of a bigger issue but again it might not be. Who are we to say.

I don't disagree that everyone reacts different. We are all different. Say in the moment that she was carried away by emotion...
perhaps she was nervous that he had gotten ripped off. In any order, I think an apology is due and, like I said above, that if
this type of behavior has been seen before(because I didnt want to base it on one situation) then perhaps a counselor would be
of help.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
54,316
Yes I absolutely agree it is easy to be carried away by emotion and that is all that might have happened here. And I also agree that having counseling for the couple could not hurt and could be a big help. Definitely would not yet throw away the relationship as some PSers have recommended.
 

rubybeth

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
2,568
mrs-blop|1451282757|3967175 said:
LLJsmom|1451275427|3967132 said:
Cr3r, your response actually gives me some hope. Because if it's not her family pressuring her, and it's her conception that an SI1 is not "good enough", I think you can actually have a more in depth discussion with her, to explain the realities of buying an engagement ring when you have an actual budget. Try to make it as academic as possible.

This is how I would approach it.

Instead of telling her that you gave the purchase a lot of thought, and asking her to be "ok" with it, explain in detail your thought process. You started with a budget. You had to prioritize the characteristics from most important to the least. First, you focused on things that would be immediately noticeable to anyone, which is generally size, cut (whichever order you chose) and then color, and clarity last. Explain that it is cut that makes a diamond visually appealing, and how some diamonds that are poorly cut, even though of a very high clarity, are not beautiful. Because clarity is not something that can be easily seen, you did not make that number 1. Tell her you agonized over it because you wanted to give her the best of everything, but because you are not made of money and have a budget in your real life, you had to make the difficult choice.

Bring her on-line. Do searches with her and show her what you get. Explain in detail the parameters you followed to ensure an excellent cut. Use the HCA tool, and show her how that works. With all that information, explain how you arrived at the stone you did. Once she sees all the work and consideration you put into it, I can't imagine that she would be that unreasonable to ask you to magically come up with another $10K so that you can meet the trade up policy requirement. And since your futures lie together, I can't imagine she would want you to waste good money that can go toward getting her a bigger and higher clarity stone.

Armed with this information, you both can look upon this quest for a higher clarity stone to be a joint journey toward a future anniversary upgrade. I am hopeful for you. You can help her understand.

Perhaps you can. And perhaps you can't. Running back to mom and dad to be 'comforted' over a clarity issue they knew nothing about an hour earlier but were immediately willing to blame their future son-in-law for - unstopped by the fiancee in question - doesn't sound optimistic to me. But either way, the answer will tell you which way you should jump on this. If you explain and she understands and can be supportive (and, frankly, apologetic) - then great. And if you explain and knowledge makes no difference to attitude, then I'd cut and run.

I'm with LLJsmom and mrs-blop on this one. As some back story, I fairly recently helped my cousin's boyfriend pick out a ring for her, and she had some expectations, but she was very clear about them (she wanted a specific Tacori setting, and 'the largest diamond he can afford' :naughty:) so when he was ready to shop, we sat down and I explained the importance of cut, clarity, etc. and how we could work with his budget to maximize what she wanted. He got her the exact setting she wanted, but in white gold instead of the platinum she'd tried on, and got her a lovely ACA from Whiteflash--which turned out beautifully, and totally blew her away when he proposed. And he stayed within budget, which was important to him and my cousin (they'll be getting married next Saturday in a big winter wedding!).

What sticks out to me from your posts, Cr3r, is that she didn't explain she had any kind of expectation before the proposal. If she'd told you "please stick with VS and above" for whatever reason, and you deliberately ignored this, that would be one thing, but she is now giving you this weirdly controlling ultimatum over something that is, essentially, a gift. I would try to speak with her about this when you can remain calm, and explain that the budget is what it is, and that you'd been planning the Christmas proposal for months, so the ring is outside of the exchange period, and that changing it will mean a loss in considerable carat weight if you are forced to sell this ring and buy another. I think a better compromise is an upgrade after 5 years or something--I'm guessing she will want the grand wedding with all the ribbons and bows, so that's where your next chunk of money is going.

If she truly can't understand this, I'd seriously reconsider. Unspoken expectation in a marriage can be devastating. Seek out a marriage counselor/therapist sooner rather than later, if you do proceed with marrying this person.
 

Sphene

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Messages
666
Show her the exit before you pay for a wedding shes not happy with - what if she runs at the altar because your suit is not from the right designer lol or god forbid the cake is not the right flavor - run forest run
 

ihy138

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Messages
1,389
I think a lot of people unknowingly equate clarity with sparkle or diamond performance. I myself did not know that cut is king until I joined this community. It might just be a matter of providing her with more accurate information about what makes a diamond really shine. If it is about competition with her friends, nobody is going to ask her what clarity her diamond is. They are going to see the size and sparkle and make their own assumptions about its value. Ask her to point out the inclusions in that SI stone. I am betting she can't. If you looked at Zales previously, I'm sure this diamond blows those out of the water. It's easy to get hung up on the numbers, but it sounds like she really liked it at first. Nobody is going to know whether this diamond is an SI or VS or even VVS, so why not put your money into something that shows a visible difference (size, color). Sorry that you are going through this! It's obvious you worked very hard.
 

packrat

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Messages
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I'm sorry, but I totally choked on my hot chocolate just now and thus disturbed my peacefully snuggling kitty. She had to have her parents COMFORT her? For real? Like...for SERIOUS, *console* her b/c the 10 thousand dollar diamond you bought her wasn't up to snuff? Does she understand that the days of "SI ONLY" bathrooms and drinking fountains are gone? She can have a seat on the bus now. Good heavens.

I do not have the patience to deal w/things like that, or people like that, or attitudes like that. I don't. I've had four wedding sets in my quest to find my forever set, which I now have, and they've not all together cost 10k. If JD handed me a 10k stone I would burst into a sobbing quivering mess-I would be more inclined to want to return it to put toward the house loan, rather than berate him for his attempt to make me happy. Remake my AVC three stone w/10k worth of diamonds? Heck yeah it's on like Donkey Kong.

Be an adult. (she, not you) There's no poor baby woe is me my life is completely over b/c I didn't get what I wanted when you're planning to get married. Is that how she's going to react when things in your marriage don't proceed according to her life dream? Marriage isn't in any way shape or form related to the diamond on her finger. Marriage is work, and it's compromise and it's about the two people IN it.

I don't think that's harsh at all. I think anything less is why we have people who can not possibly function w/out getting a ribbon for every little thing they do and can not possibly begin to cope w/life w/out being consoled and finding a safe room. Here's your diamond honey..and a valium, some certificates for therapy to work on your heartache and trauma, and here's keys to a steel room where you can go when someone asks about your diamond and they jeer you when you're walking down the street.

Tell her if she wants her standards, her parents standards, whatever her blessed little heart demands, she has X to spend, and she can find what suits her within X budget--and she can then either "settle" for what you provided, or she can deal w/a smaller diamond. Or she/her parents can contribute to be sure she gets exactly what is apparently going to show the world how much you love her and seal the deal on the future state of your marriage.
 

mrs-b

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Messages
11,860
missy|1451313393|3967286 said:
tyty333|1451313063|3967285 said:
My first husband proposed to me with an ungraded, non-eye clean, lower colored diamond that rarely sparkled, in a plain
peg-head yellow gold setting. I knew he did the best he could in his budget (which was probably low). I didnt say a word. Heck,
I was happy to be engaged, and later on married. Just FYI...take it for what's worth.

Why would anyone want to ruin the joy of the moment? Why would anyone who loved you want to hurt you with a reaction like that? Why in front of her family? Things could have, and should have been handled later. I know engagement rings can be emotional, but
I'm concerned that she/they responded in this way. I think lots of communication/discussion need to go on about this situation and
possibly discussions with a counselor present if you have seen some of this behavior in the past. I dont think I'm alone in saying that
this may be a bigger issue. I hope you both can work it out and come to an understanding. I wish you both well.

tyty, if there is anything I have learned over the years it is just that one cannot say there is only one right way to behave or feel things. So just because you sucked it up and dealt with getting a ring less than what you desired at the time doesn't mean this is how this young lady should have behaved. We are all different. Yes things could have been handled better however this is what happened. Now there are some PSers saying walk away because you cannot come back from this and I disagree. I am not saying this relationship is a good one because IDK but I am saying based on this one incident I would not throw in the towel so to speak. Yes this can be part of a bigger issue but again it might not be. Who are we to say.

Missy - I hear what you're saying and I think you're trying to be very judicious, with which I agree.

However, there is a basic standard of good manners that can be prescribed and at which this young lady failed miserably. We can make all the allowances in the world, but in the final analysis, being disappointed doesn't make it ok to have a hissy fit in response to one's fiancee offering her the best ring he could afford. That speaks to a level of self-indulgence incompatible with happy marriage. Nor does being broken hearted allow one to throw oneself into the arms of one's parents, opening the door for group criticism of one's intended.

Being upset doesn't allow you to make miserable the people you are supposed to love - regardless of how badly they've unintentionally failed you. And the jury is still out on whether she has been failed at all.

Do I think he should chuck the relationship on the basis of this? No. I think compromise should be attempted - along with kindness and respect, as I mentioned previously. But that kindness and respect had better run both ways or the person giving-but-not-getting is in for a life of misery. And then i do indeed think walking away is warranted.
 

solgen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
563
This is a good point in the relationship to see if you can resolve this issue or if you fail to compromise and perhaps part ways. But give it some time and let the emotions of the holidays and the events settle down before acting irrationally or hastily.

Let me say that before coming to this site my requirements were F color at minimum and VVS2 or better clarity. I've seen a lot of jewelry store SI stones and they are fugly and hideous. She could very well be in this same state of ignorance. Perhaps through time you can educate her or even take her to an independent appraiser who can inform her how mistaken she is. I wish you all the best.

Also, I wouldn't really bother asking for the ring back at this point. She could claim it's a Xmas gift but it's pretty clearly an engagement ring. Many states will side with you and that the ring is given on condition that marriage ensues. If it doesn't then you're entitled to receive the ring back.
 

sonnyjane

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
2,476
packrat|1451323715|3967362 said:
I'm sorry, but I totally choked on my hot chocolate just now and thus disturbed my peacefully snuggling kitty. She had to have her parents COMFORT her? For real? Like...for SERIOUS, *console* her b/c the 10 thousand dollar diamond you bought her wasn't up to snuff? Does she understand that the days of "SI ONLY" bathrooms and drinking fountains are gone? She can have a seat on the bus now. Good heavens.

So what you're saying is... She can be "included"? ;-)
 

Travelgal

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
332
On an Internet forum, not knowing the original poster or their relationship, it's easy to see the red flags. Like others have said, it seems to me that she is not educated in diamonds. I think everyone has had a moment that he or she regrets. How is your fiancé treating you now or handling the situation? Maybe her first reaction was poor, has she changed her tune? Have you asked her what she would buy with $10k? I think this is a tricky situation because we don't know your history and at face value, it's a little alarming to hear a clarity concern (and we aren't talking I clarity here) caused such an uproar. I am more concerned with how she's treating you now than her initial reaction- I think that's more telling.
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,524
solgen|1451326654|3967402 said:
This is a good point in the relationship to see if you can resolve this issue or if you fail to compromise and perhaps part ways. But give it some time and let the emotions of the holidays and the events settle down before acting irrationally or hastily.

Let me say that before coming to this site my requirements were F color at minimum and VVS2 or better clarity. I've seen a lot of jewelry store SI stones and they are fugly and hideous. She could very well be in this same state of ignorance. Perhaps through time you can educate her or even take her to an independent appraiser who can inform her how mistaken she is. I wish you all the best.

Also, I wouldn't really bother asking for the ring back at this point. She could claim it's a Xmas gift but it's pretty clearly an engagement ring. Many states will side with you and that the ring is given on condition that marriage ensues. If it doesn't then you're entitled to receive the ring back.

Be sure to check how that works in your state. Several states agree with this unless the ring is given on Christmas, Birthday, or Valentines Day. On those days the recipient can claim it was just a gift, and unfortunately, get away with it.
 

VRBeauty

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
11,220
Let's remember a few things.

First, we have only one side of the picture. Granted it does seem pretty damning, but it is only one person's recollection of what happened, and could well be colored by emotion.

Second, the words "slightly included" do sound a lot worse than the diamonds they're usually applied to. All most people know about "inclusions" is that they're bad. I looked up on-line definitions, and they don't help: Wiki: In mineralogy, an inclusion is any material that is trapped inside a mineral during its formation. Dictionary Definition. Mineralogy. a solid body or a body of gas or liquid enclosed within the mass of a mineral. An inclusion may be anything which could interfere with light as it travels through a gemstone. It might be a small pocket of gas, an internal fracture or an air space. Until I learned more, I associated inclusions with carbon particles. How many times have we had to educate newbies about the virtues of buying a larger eye-clean SI1 stone rather than a smaller VS or even IF stone? How many times have we abmonished people not to pay for clarity they can't see? Which leads me to -

Third, We have all had the benefit of learning about the various diamond grades and what they mean in real life. The OP, to his credit, also studied up and learned that SI1 stones can be eye clean and can be a good value. His fiance and her family haven't had that benefit and apparently reacted viscerally to the words "slightly included." Hopefully OP's fiancee will be open to learning more about what those 4 C's really mean, and the tradeoff-s involved with finding the best diamond for a given budget. And hopefully she will come to appreciate the thought and consideration that went into her DF's gift.

I'll grant that there are plenty of red flags in story recounted to us, and I don't think the collective warnings are totally misplaced. I'm just trying to add a little perspective...
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
10,614
sonnyjane|1451327711|3967414 said:
packrat|1451323715|3967362 said:
I'm sorry, but I totally choked on my hot chocolate just now and thus disturbed my peacefully snuggling kitty. She had to have her parents COMFORT her? For real? Like...for SERIOUS, *console* her b/c the 10 thousand dollar diamond you bought her wasn't up to snuff? Does she understand that the days of "SI ONLY" bathrooms and drinking fountains are gone? She can have a seat on the bus now. Good heavens.

So what you're saying is... She can be "included"? ;-)

Slightly. :saint:
 

Gem Queen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
548
Pakrat! Lol! That was eloquently said. Your poor kitty. I'm glad I'm alone in my office.
 

Diamondz1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
142
Hi Cr3r - I'm sure you could have the inscription polished off without changing the diamond too much. If you search for threads that discuss recutting a stone or dealing with a chip you'll find some advice and some vendors who offer recutting services which would probably run you a few hundred dollars. Then you could have the stone re-certed at another lab. Is the thought to present it to your fiancee as an entirely new stone with her none the wiser? I'm not sure I would recommend that but, if you're thinking that she would be satisfied with a stone that has a VS grade, regardless of the lab, then that could be your easiest/cheapest answer.

Have you two had a completely transparent conversation about both of your finances? You said in your first post that if you sold this $10k stone for $7.5K, you could fund the additional $2.5K with a loan. If needing a loan means that your savings are at zero, and your fiancee is not fully aware of your financial situation, that could partially explain her reaction. She may have assumed that if you were comfortable spending $10k on a ring, you have much more than that in the bank, and she became upset that you didn't spend a little more for a higher clarity which turned into the inappropriate reaction you saw from her and her family. Just a thought! It can be hard to have those conversations but it's so important.
 
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