Need immediate advice on cat

[missy]

Oh no CJ I am glad you are taking Mousey to see the vet and sending her buckets and buckets of healing dust and I hope she is A OK. (((HUGS))).
Please keep us posted.

 

[ecf8503]

I'm a vet - any breathing difficulty should be evaluated yes. But lung issues don't usually correlate with sneezing and head congestion. Is she open mouth breathing or breathing fast? Is her tongue blue or grey or even bright red? If not I think it can wait - sounds like head congestion, which is not necessarily FIV related. She may have a latent herpes virus that can flare up now and again and cause congestion, sneezing, and runny red eyes.

You're doing fine - you're a good momma.

 

[CJ2008]

Thank you so much missy (((hugs))) update below

I'm a vet - any breathing difficulty should be evaluated yes. But lung issues don't usually correlate with sneezing and head congestion. Is she open mouth breathing or breathing fast? Is her tongue blue or grey or even bright red? If not I think it can wait - sounds like head congestion, which is not necessarily FIV related. She may have a latent herpes virus that can flare up now and again and cause congestion, sneezing, and runny red eyes.

You're doing fine - you're a good momma.

Thank you ecf for the advise and for the kind words. I was really worried about her.

She was breathing closed mouthed, normal speed, just sounded congested and wheezy.

I did not look at her tongue so I'm not sure about that.

Thank you so much for these signs, so I know what to look for in the future.

The vet gave her a shot of Convenia, vitamin B12, and advised me to get a nebulizer. ETA: also said next time give her Lysine, either 250mg or 500mg 1x/day. I had read about Lysine on various FIV forums, but didn't want to try on my own without seeing a vet.

Told me we should be especially diligent washing our hands, changing clothes after we're with her, etc.

She said other than the congestion - her lungs sounded fine - she looks really good.

I am so relieved.

Can you (or anyone?) recommend a nebulizer? (the vet told me I wouldn't be using it as a mask - but that the tube would go into the little holes in the carrier, which I would cover with a towel.)

 

[CJ2008]

Hi @sonnyjane how are you? I was wondering if I could get your advice on something.

I've been wanting to take Mousey with me in her carrier and have her sit outside with me so she could see and breathe fresh air, look at the sun, etc. I would sit there with her of course.

I've been hesitating because it's rougher to get her to go into the carrier now. For a good reason, actually. She used to immediately run into and retreat into her carrier whenever I moved too fast or did anything she wasn't comfortable with. But her level of trust has increased so much that on Sunday when I wanted to take her to the vet no matter what I did she would just sit on her scratcher and watch me. I would dust the floor right up to her hands, tower over her, move swiftly, and she wouldn't budge. Which I love, but it made it that much more difficult to get her into the carrier. I ended up putting some treats by the carrier and then once she was there I kind of touched her a few times with the edge of a newspaper and gently guided her into the carrier. I hated doing this, I felt like I needed to scare her a little to get her in there.

I noticed when we got back from the vet it took her several hours to trust going back into the carrier (she sometimes likes to sleep in there), even when I wasn't in the room (I have a camera that looks in on her). So I felt like she had probably lost a little bit of the safe feeling she feels in the carrier.

I know the END, the reason I want to get her in the carrier is a good one, and will be good for her, so I feel like I need to find a way. But I'd like to approach it as positive as possible, and taking whatever steps and time it takes to keep it as positive as I can. I realize that eventually, she will start to realize that hey, a lot of times when I go in the carrier, I get to go outside, and not the vet! So once I get to that point, that will be awesome. But what do I do in the meantime?

Would love any ideas / suggestions you might be able to give me. ((((Thanks so much.))))

 

[sonnyjane]

@CJ2008 quickly before I answer, can you show a picture or link to the type of carrier you use? It affects my answer a bit

 

[CJ2008]

Of course!



Is that clear / big enough? Let me know, I can always take new ones / close ups.

In case it's not easy to see, the top and door can be removed.

That wood "floor" is a plywood that is over the bathtub.

ETA: I also have that soft black carrier in there. But no matter where I place it in the room, or what I put in it, she doesn't seem interested to go in it. I have a feeling it's because the one time she did go in it, a while back, she defecated by the entrance, and I am pretty sure there was a worm in her feces. I didn't really see it then, and had shown it to the vet who quickly glanced at it - but after I had found out she had intestinal parasites when I look back at the picture I am pretty sure I see a damn worm. :/ so it's possible she associates that carrier with feces or something uncomfortable, even though I've washed it, disinfected it, put it out in the sun, etc.

I'd be willing to buy another soft carrier for her so she has a separate carrier to go outside in...just giving you all options in case. I'm willing to do whatever you think is ideal, if it's something I can do.

 

[sonnyjane]

Great thank you. Ok this will be long!

So there are two different themes here. The first is that you want the crate to be positive again, and the second is that you want her to get the enrichment of going outside.

For the crate part, know that it's a challenge most face! My own cat is NOT a fan because it's pretty much only associated with the vet or moving houses. He is trained to go in for food. He will go in, eat in there, I can lift the crate, move the crate from room to room - great. But he still hates life and pees on himself when the crate goes to the car. His annual checkup was two weeks ago and to prepare, I spent 6 weeks of retraining - crating him, carrying him around, carrying him outside and putting him right beside the car... but once we got to the car, even during training, he would be very nervous and pee. There comes a time where sometimes the payoff isn't worth the trauma caused by the training and so I decided to just work on going in and out of the crate but not to make him sit in the car except for the "big day". That day after the vet, as soon as we got home, I cleaned the crate out, put a bowl of food in it, and walked away so that he had to go into the crate right after the bad event - basically getting right back on the horse. He was fine with this (but he is very food motivated).

When I worked at the zoo, those animals were crated probably 2-4 times PER DAY, every day of their life, so the one or two times a year they went to the vet didn't overshadow the many, many other times they were crated just to have their enclosures cleaned and be fed. With cats, that would be true as well, IF we had the time to crate them and move them/transport them several times a day, every day. That's not realistic and I don't expect any cat owner to do that. If you do, bravo! I'm really racking my brain because in two weeks he has an appointment for a teeth cleaning for which they have to put him under, which means NO FOOD OR WATER, so I can't crate him for food, so I'll honestly try either putting some catnip in there and then (because I know from experience that doesn't work haha) probably have to "burrito him" in a towel for transport. NOT IDEAL, but when you don't have a primary reinforcer like food or water to get them into the crate, you sometimes have to do it. In that picture looks like she has the teal hard-sided carrier and the black soft-sided carrier. I'm not sure which you plan to bring outside but both would be used similarly if you use the soft-sided black carrier as you have it opened in the picture. I have a small condiment bowl that I put the food in and then put that in the farthest back corner, he goes in, and then I shut the door once he's eating. If he tries to eat a piece and back out, I close the door and he gets no food. I wait a few seconds, open the door, and then he goes all the way in and stays. He quickly learned that you only get to enjoy the food if you stay in the crate. If you want to make the crate positive, I would feed her in it.

NOW, on to the bigger issue of taking the crate outside. This is a good idea, and probably won't hurt, but I also don't know how much enrichment the cat will get in that small carrier outside. If it was the large, open-sided crate (the black metal one that you have on top of the bathtub), that would be very nice, I'm just not sure how much she can really see or experience in the little carrier, and I'm also worried that the trauma of those first few days outside in the crate would scare her and have the opposite effect that you desire.

Before I go on to talk about outside, what is her current housing situation? Does she have access to that entire bathroom? Is she shut into the metal crate? Are you able to pet her? Just curious how much exercise/movement she is able to get.

I know it's a long thread, so can you refresh my memory of why she lives in that bathroom?

 

[CJ2008]

Thank you so much for all this sonnyjane!

I'll be back shortly to respond!

(((((((((((thank you)))))))))))))

 

[CJ2008]

Great thank you. Ok this will be long!

So there are two different themes here. The first is that you want the crate to be positive again, and the second is that you want her to get the enrichment of going outside.

For the crate part, know that it's a challenge most face! My own cat is NOT a fan because it's pretty much only associated with the vet or moving houses. He is trained to go in for food. He will go in, eat in there, I can lift the crate, move the crate from room to room - great. But he still hates life and pees on himself when the crate goes to the car. His annual checkup was two weeks ago and to prepare, I spent 6 weeks of retraining - crating him, carrying him around, carrying him outside and putting him right beside the car... but once we got to the car, even during training, he would be very nervous and pee. There comes a time where sometimes the payoff isn't worth the trauma caused by the training and so I decided to just work on going in and out of the crate but not to make him sit in the car except for the "big day". That day after the vet, as soon as we got home, I cleaned the crate out, put a bowl of food in it, and walked away so that he had to go into the crate right after the bad event - basically getting right back on the horse. He was fine with this (but he is very food motivated).

When I worked at the zoo, those animals were crated probably 2-4 times PER DAY, every day of their life, so the one or two times a year they went to the vet didn't overshadow the many, many other times they were crated just to have their enclosures cleaned and be fed. With cats, that would be true as well, IF we had the time to crate them and move them/transport them several times a day, every day. That's not realistic and I don't expect any cat owner to do that. If you do, bravo! I'm really racking my brain because in two weeks he has an appointment for a teeth cleaning for which they have to put him under, which means NO FOOD OR WATER, so I can't crate him for food, so I'll honestly try either putting some catnip in there and then (because I know from experience that doesn't work haha) probably have to "burrito him" in a towel for transport. NOT IDEAL, but when you don't have a primary reinforcer like food or water to get them into the crate, you sometimes have to do it. In that picture looks like she has the teal hard-sided carrier and the black soft-sided carrier. I'm not sure which you plan to bring outside but both would be used similarly if you use the soft-sided black carrier as you have it opened in the picture. I have a small condiment bowl that I put the food in and then put that in the farthest back corner, he goes in, and then I shut the door once he's eating. If he tries to eat a piece and back out, I close the door and he gets no food. I wait a few seconds, open the door, and then he goes all the way in and stays. He quickly learned that you only get to enjoy the food if you stay in the crate. If you want to make the crate positive, I would feed her in it.

NOW, on to the bigger issue of taking the crate outside. This is a good idea, and probably won't hurt, but I also don't know how much enrichment the cat will get in that small carrier outside. If it was the large, open-sided crate (the black metal one that you have on top of the bathtub), that would be very nice, I'm just not sure how much she can really see or experience in the little carrier, and I'm also worried that the trauma of those first few days outside in the crate would scare her and have the opposite effect that you desire.

Before I go on to talk about outside, what is her current housing situation? Does she have access to that entire bathroom? Is she shut into the metal crate? Are you able to pet her? Just curious how much exercise/movement she is able to get.

I know it's a long thread, so can you refresh my memory of why she lives in that bathroom?

So sorry to hear about your baby and how stressed he gets. Have you thought of perhaps putting the crate in your bedroom and letting him sleep in your room, maybe put some treats in the carrier. Your bedroom might be like "prime real estate" to him because you're in there, so if the carrier was there too, that might make it like a special treat. Just thinking for any ideas. Also, have you considered covering the crate with a towel. I mention it below too, it's the only way I transport her, and now, my other cats too.

and now, sonny, to answer your most important question as to why she lives in that bathroom, it's because that bathroom is the only room I can have her in. Far from ideal, I know.

But yes, she has access to the whole bathroom, she is never shut into the metal crate.

As far as exercise...I go in there for an hour to an hour and a half once a day, usually at night, and we play with her toys and her favorite ball. She is able to chase the ball around the toilet, and jumps up on the plywood.

And when I go in there to feed her, or go in just to see her, I always arrange all her toys so that they're partially visible. I put a few under her scratcher, a couple on top of the vertical scratcher, some wedged in the metal bars of the crate, etc. I find spots. She then goes and finds them and bats them, etc. She is really playful and I see her run around (via the camera) all the time. And if I don't see it / catch it, when I go in the bathroom her toys are always in a different part of the bathroom, so I know she's played with them.

I dare say she might even get more exercise than my boy cat. :/

That said, I am under no illusion that it's awesome and that I think this is all she needs. I am continually buying her new toys, and thinking of ways to get her to move (which isn't hard, she really is very playful.) But still missing is fresh air, sun, trees. So if I could find a way to give her a little bit of that I would like to see how.

I *did* plan on covering the carrier with a towel (which is how I bring her to the vet and after I learned this about ferals, it's what I do for my other cats too when they go to the vet, really helps keep them calm. I wish I had known about this long ago. Have you tried that with your little guy?) and let just a little peak at a time, talk to her, etc. and observe her, so that part was going to require its own process. Our street is very quiet with hardly any traffic at all (people or cars) so it's ideal as far as that. Although perhaps even with all that, you're right, she may find it more scary than relaxing. I won't know until I try though. I would have to "measure" how scared she is. I think my instincts are pretty good and I'd be able to tell whether it's doable/I should keep trying or just too much for her. And again, if that part needs to be a process - say, one day I take her out there for just 5 minutes, covered, then the next uncover a little, etc., I'm willing to try it. However slow it needs to be to keep her stress levels low and a better chance at it working.

As far as petting, in the last couple of weeks or so she started allowing me to touch her tail. And in this last week she has allowed me to pet her back. There is more backstory to this, and this is still a work in progress and a delicate issue between me and her, but for our purposes right now, yes, I can touch her. She truly is a very sweet gentle soul and I feel so privileged that she is trusting me enough to test her boundaries. My eyes water just writing about it.

I would consider getting a second black crate similar to the one in the bathroom and I could recreate the same setup she has in the bathroom when I want to take her outside. Maybe inside the garage might feel less open and more secure, too. So basically, black crate would be in garage. Then I would take her in her carrier - the blue or black one (not sure if you saw my earlier ETA about the black soft carrier) - and place her in the crate. Black crate itself would also be covered with a blanket (just like I used to do in the bathroom until she seemed more secure.)

Your advice about feeding her in whatever carrier - or maybe both - to get her used to going in there might be key to making this whole thing a possibility.

But before I go on and on (more than I already have ) let me know your thoughts so far...

 

[sonnyjane]

@CJ2008 ... considering this is how my cat sleeps every night, you can see why sleeping in a crate in my bedroom wouldn't have much appeal

I can certainly help address a way to approximate toward taking her carrier outside, but I think the mutual goal here should be giving her the best quality of life possible which is why I want to revisit the reason she is in your bathroom. If my memory serves me correctly, is it because she is FIV+ and your other cat is not? If that's the reason you believe she has to live in isolation, I would STRONGLY consider that you either talk more to your current vet, or reach out to a different vet, because there are MANY misconceptions about the danger. If you did a very slow and appropriate introduction between the two, they might actually become companions. Here's an article that can give you some hope: http://www.care2.com/causes/as-it-t...-negative-cats-can-happily-live-together.html

I'd MUCH rather help you work toward THAT goal, because while I know you're doing the best you can and what you feel is right, long-term I want to get her out of that bathroom.

 

[CJ2008]

OMG what a cutie! and LOL yeah, a carrier would be a LOT less appealing than mommy.

I understand that you'd prefer to help toward that goal, but that goal is not attainable. It is physically the only room I have, and I am looking for a forever home for her so I do not want to introduce her to my other cats because I cannot keep her. I am really really hoping I find a home for her soon, but in the meantime I want to do what I can to give her the best life I can.

I hope you'll still help me, but I understand if you don't / can't. I feel good taking it only if you feel good giving it, you know?

 

[sonnyjane]

OMG what a cutie! and LOL yeah, a carrier would be a LOT less appealing than mommy.

I understand that you'd prefer to help toward that goal, but that goal is not attainable. It is physically the only room I have, and I am looking for a forever home for her so I do not want to introduce her to my other cats because I cannot keep her. I am really really hoping I find a home for her soon, but in the meantime I want to do what I can to give her the best life I can.

I hope you'll still help me, but I understand if you don't / can't. I feel good taking it only if you feel good giving it, you know?

Ok. I appreciate your patience with me. Can I say then that my recommendation would be instead of devoting an extra hour or so a day toward working to getting her outside in a carrier for whatever minimal positive (or conversely very negative) impact that might have on her life, you focus that hour a day toward getting her into a different home? I’m going to say this in a loving way and hope you don’t take offense, as I’m not criticizing you at all - you’ve been great to put so much effort into her so far- but quality of life is to always be considered. Is a life in confinement better than no life at all? I don’t have the answer but these are thoughts that cross my mind. If you don’t have plans to keep her and introduce her to your animals and the rest of your home, then I would fast-track your attempt to get her somewhere else, even if it’s with a foster that might not be able to keep her forever, but can at least let her roam around the entire house.

 

[CJ2008]

Ok. I appreciate your patience with me. Can I say then that my recommendation would be instead of devoting an extra hour or so a day toward working to getting her outside in a carrier for whatever minimal positive (or conversely very negative) impact that might have on her life, you focus that hour a day toward getting her into a different home? I’m going to say this in a loving way and hope you don’t take offense, as I’m not criticizing you at all - you’ve been great to put so much effort into her so far- but quality of life is to always be considered. Is a life in a cell better than no life at all? I don’t have the answer but these are thoughts that cross my mind. If you don’t have plans to keep her and introduce her to your animals and the rest of your home, then I would fast-track your attempt to get her somewhere else, even if it’s with a foster that might not be able to keep her forever, but can at least let her roam around the entire house.

I had not considered getting her to a different foster...

But yeah, maybe that's the answer, since I have not had a single inquiry about adopting her, even though she has a lot of people liking her page, sharing her, etc.

Maybe I need to advertise not only for adoption, but for a foster.

 

[sonnyjane]

I had not considered getting her to a different foster...

But yeah, maybe that's the answer, since I have not had a single inquiry about adopting her, even though she has a lot of people liking her page, sharing her, etc.

Maybe I need to advertise not only for adoption, but for a foster.

Just be careful with “advertising” on places like craigslist, or social media in general, because there are unsavory people out there that take these animals for bad purposes. I would start reaching out to every vet, shelter, and foster within 100 miles. Even if they can’t do anything, they might have names of others that can help.

 

[CJ2008]

Just be careful with “advertising” on places like craigslist, or social media in general, because there are unsavory people out there that take these animals for bad purposes. I would start reaching out to every vet, shelter, and foster within 100 miles. Even if they can’t do anything, they might have names of others that can help.

Oh, I know...

 

[Sunstorm]

@CJ2008 I just read your story with Mousey. It is clear to me that you were meant to be her guardian angel. What is going on with her? Updates? In my heart I hope that you will realize that it was meant to be but whatever happened, I hope it is good. You are an amazing cat momma, your anxiety reminds me of how I used to feel trying to help rescues, baby kittens, etc. Beautiful story. Animals are the most wonderful.