shape
carat
color
clarity

Need help with this diamond urgently!

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by 1amaN00b, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Feb 6, 2019
    No problem, glad to help. :cool2:

    Yes, inverse relationships apply. As one goes up, the other comes down.

    While I went into quite a bit of detail about the PERSONALITY of each stone, I really can't stress enough that it's like you have 5 near perfect choices in front of you. All these stones fall within IDEAL cut and symmetry classification. I was just giving you data to help further narrow/nitpick the 5 down to a single stone.

    Truly, buying stones at WF is like hitting an easy button. Any of these stones will wow and impress you, your SO and all your friends/family. You really can't make a bad choice.

    If budget is tight, go for the cheapest and upgrade later when funds allow. Never stress yourself out about money.
     
  2. 1amaN00b
    Rough_Rock

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    by 1amaN00b » Feb 6, 2019
    I can't believe where I was when I started this thread to where I am now! By the way, JA came back with the idealscope of the original stone I was inquiring about (IF). Here it is! Cannot compare to any of the ACA stones!!!!

    6491730.jpg
     
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  3. kmoro
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by kmoro » Feb 6, 2019
    Once you pick one that you’re serious about, please put it on hold so no one scoops it from under you!

    I also found out that sometimes WF works with other designers ... if you see a setting you like from somewhere not listed on the WF site, be sure to ask them if they can source it for you before you buy it from another vendor.

    Good luck!
     
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  4. 1amaN00b
    Rough_Rock

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    by 1amaN00b » Feb 6, 2019
    I really didn't think anyone would poach diamonds especially when it's such an expensive item but I guess people do that! :evil::naughty:
     
    


    


  5. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Feb 6, 2019
    Yeah, unfortunately it's a reality.

    But sometimes it's just legitimately bad timing. When you shop via the internet the buying pool is considerably larger so the likelihood someone stumbles on "your diamond" and wants to buy it without malicious intent is pretty high as well.

    Even if you are deciding between multiple stones, it's a good idea to place them on reserve for a few days to get your head around everything and not lose out.
     
  6. 1amaN00b
    Rough_Rock

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    by 1amaN00b » Feb 6, 2019
    Ok now questions about settings.... what are the pros and cons with these ones I picked?
    https://www.whiteflash.com/diamond-jewelry/compare.aspx?idnos=4031,582,1416

    I'm trying to compare and see which would be best (I upped the price on the diamond so will have to keep it low on the settings). Any thoughts?

    14k vs 18k? SO is rough with her hands and 14k is a harder metal. Makes a big difference?

    Thanks again!
     
  7. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Feb 6, 2019
    1463 is by far my favorite of those options. The others look too "sharp" to me, and don't really look like they "flow".

    Here are some alternatives under 1K:

    https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ni-1rz7241-solitaire-engagement-ring-3991.htm

    https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ni-1rz7261-solitaire-engagement-ring-4006.htm

    https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...9-classics-solitaire-engagement-ring-5487.htm
     
  8. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Feb 7, 2019
    If I were picking for my girl, it would be 1463. It tapers into the diamond like you prefer. Its relatively skinny which I think you like, varying from 1.45 to 2mm.

    Most importantly look at the difference in the heads. The first two you posted is a peghead style and very large and clunky IMO. The head on the 1463 looks very sleek and sexy, similar to the Tiffany style head. Plus it appears to attach at multiple points vs a central location like the pegheads making it structurally stronger.

    You can ask WF if they will quote the ring in a 14k material. Odds are pretty good since that is an in house custom design they do.
     
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  9. rockysalamander
    Ideal_Rock

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    by rockysalamander » Feb 7, 2019
    You said she is rough on her hands. In what way? What is her profession?
     
  10. 1amaN00b
    Rough_Rock

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    by 1amaN00b » Feb 7, 2019
    I knew someone would make a comment like that! lol! I spoke with a WH rep and they said a 14k can be made (1463 is my preference too) but they will only take $50 off. Is it worth it or should I keep it at 18K?

    What do you guys think about this one as well? I'm narrowing down to these two!
    https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ni-1rz7241-solitaire-engagement-ring-3991.htm

    The side view looks interesting. I am inquiring if they can make this into a 6 prong setting.
     
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  11. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Feb 7, 2019
    @1amaN00b -

    My very best advice here - don't go down to 1.2ct. You might be looking at this as an upgradeable situation, but to give a girl a ring which is a LONG way from what she wanted and say "Hey - when we've been married for a while, maybe when we've finished having kids, or some time in the next 5 years or so - we can upgrade!' - is not a convincing argument. And you shouldn't have to justify the ring you choose. In that - the ring shouldn't need to be explained. If at all possible, you need to knock it out of the park first go.

    I have seen this, both on PS and also in real life, a thousand times - and please take this on board: unless your girl is a diamond perfectionist, or very knowledgeable, or a collector, men tend to be more drawn to stats, and women tend to be more drawn to a size/performance balance. Men often feel they're getting the best deal if they get the very white, very high clarity, super-ideal performer, where as most women tend to be somewhat more pragmatic - along the lines of "Who cares how perfect it is if I can't actually SEE it?"

    1.2 is NOT s tiny diamond. In fact, the argument of what constitutes large and what doesn't is endless. But if she has expressly said she would like a 2ct stone, 1.2ct is a long way away from that.

    Has she specified a color? A clarity? Or are G and VS your picks? Try to remember, you won't be wearing it. This is 100% about what she would like.

    To that end, I'd suggest this diamond:
    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4059361.htm

    This is a 1.6ct I VS1 stone - large, clean, and I'll bet London to a brick this will be white enough in her eyes. I colored stones - especially at that size - are generally very reliable. Here's a couple of photos of 2 I colored stones I've had. The first is my WhiteFlash 4.01ct I VS1 stone. Keep in mind, the larger a stone, the more tint you'll see. So yours will show considerably less than this:

    144838 - e-ring and wedder.jpeg


    Here it is sideways, on a stark white background, so if you're going to see any tint, this is where you'll see it. Remember yours, being smaller, will show up considerably whiter than this....

    20180523_113028_resized.jpg

    This is my 3.61ct I VS2 from Blue Nile.

    IMG_2487.JPG

    IMG_2545.JPG

    And here it is in real life, so you get an idea of how it looks in the real world. This is what her friends and family will see, her work colleagues, people with whom she interacts on a daily basis. Tell me if you can see any tint or yellow....

    Perspective_3_a.jpg

    Blue Nile has the same trade-up policy as James Allen. The main reason I'd suggest either of these companies is if there's a chance your fiancee might want to swap shapes in the future; WhiteFlash only offers upgrades on rounds and princess cuts. However, if a round is what you want...

    I agree with WF 100%. Great company, fabulous product, and if they say a stone is white / clean / has no problems / etc - then you can believe it's the truth.

    I think you can do better than 1.2ct. But that's not really the issue. The issue is whether the recipient is going to think you could have done better. In this situation, I'd err on the side of caution.

    Good luck!

    ETA Definitely 18kt. This is a luxury item - not the time to skimp.
     
  12. 1amaN00b
    Rough_Rock

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    by 1amaN00b » Feb 7, 2019
    Thank you @mrs-b for the insight and perspective (and your ring is nice)!

    @sledge what do you think about the 1.6ct one compared to the 1.344ct you raved about yesterday?

    I actually have been working with my SO and she's ok with a 1.3ct (VS2/G color). I guess she'll be ok with H color (that's the min) but not sure about I color. She loves the classic round shape so she won't be changing that in the future. She straight out told me! Besides, she has small fingers and she realizes that 2ct is a little far reach (we've tried at jewelry stores). Don't get me wrong, she loves the size but she's ok with a 2ct later down the road. Hence, I'm going to get the diamond at WH because of the generous upgrade policy. Maybe I will hit the lottery and can buy her a 4ct! Who knows! Lol

    Is there much different btw a 1.3 and a 1.6?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  13. blueMA
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by blueMA » Feb 7, 2019
    That 1.6 stone @mrs-b found is a nice one with great proportions. I do hesitate on the color since I'm very color sensitive and don't go below G, but I agree that offering a 1.2-1.3 stone to a girl who wanted a 2ct stone may seem like you're cutting corner and a WF I stone will perform beautifully. She specified size, not the color, so try to afford as big as possible with your budget. This is THE engagement ring. Many do believe in upgrades here on PS, but a girl will always remember the stone she was proposed with.

    Here's the size difference.
    https://www.diamdb.com/compare/1.61ct-round-7.51x7.53x4.65-vs-1.35ct-round-7.05x7.09x4.38/
    upload_2019-2-7_9-30-51.png
     
  14. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Feb 7, 2019
    Yes. There will be a lot of difference and it is easily noticeable.

    In all the years I've been buying and collecting diamonds, one of the biggest mistakes I see new buyers make is in not knowing where they can compromise - and also where they can't. As people here will tell you, cut is the one thing you cannot compromise on if you want your diamond to perform. Once you've got that right, it's an easy ride from there.

    As far as the comparison between the 1.6ct stone and the 1.34ct stone - there is virtually no difference; the diamonds are very well matched on all cut stats. Definitely not enough to be noticeable. The noticeable differences are two-fold; size and color. You need to trade off one against the other to work out which is more important to you. My firm belief is that you'll notice the difference in size WAY more than the difference in color.
     
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  15. blueMA
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by blueMA » Feb 7, 2019
    This is generally true unless influenced by certain culture.
    You can contact whiteflash and have them compare the contender stones side by side. You can even ask for a video. Ask if the I is a good I (more towards the H than J), and the WF folks will be very helpful for making the final decision.
     
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  16. 1amaN00b
    Rough_Rock

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    by 1amaN00b » Feb 7, 2019
    Yep, I just called my rep and left a message. Hopefully she's call me back soon.
     
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  17. 1amaN00b
    Rough_Rock

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    by 1amaN00b » Feb 7, 2019
    My rep just came back to me with pictures. Size is definitely noticeably bigger but there is also a tint of yellow in the 1.6ct. I will stay with the 1.344ct since OG likes more of a cooler white.

    Should I buy diamond using credit card or wire transfer (3% discount)? The only thing I am thinking is that credit card (chase) may have a buyer's protection on it. Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  18. Gussie
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Gussie » Feb 7, 2019
    I would like to point out that the stone comparison on diamdb has always been more noticeable in person for me. It must be because it's a 2D representation.
     
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  19. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Feb 7, 2019
    Refresh my memory, are you going with white gold (WG) or yellow gold (YG)?

    Asking because 18k YG has a slightly more yellow tint, whereas 14k generally has a more muted yellow tint. Then there is variation in specific alloy mixtures from vendor to vendor. So maybe 18k YG looks slightly different from vendor A than 18k YG from vendor B. Also, you will likely see more color difference between a 3mm wide band instead of a 1.8mm wide band, so size affects it a little.

    So if you or she has a color preference one way or the other in regards to YG, then this may be a determining factor for you. There is another great thread here with some comparison pictures:

    https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/14k-vs-18k-yg-does-size-matter.245666/

    On the flip side, if you prefer WG then this is a good read by another well respected & trusted super ideal vendor here. This in mind, if I were you and doing WG I would eat the $50 and go with the 18k personally.

    https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/news/difference-14k-18k-white-gold-engagement-ring/

    ETA:
    Forgot to add my comments about the Ritani vs WF bands you've narrowed to.

    I vastly prefer 6 prongs. More security and it makes the stone look round (sometimes 4 prongs makes it look squarish). So if the Ritani isn't available in 6 prong, I'm WF all the way.

    Also, the Ritani is wider at about 2.50mm. The WF is thinner at the 1.45-2mm mark. Small fingers normally look better with smaller settings and vice versa.

    However, earlier you mentioned your girl was rough with her hands. @rockysalamander asked what she did, and you took as a joke; however, pretty sure she wasn't joking that way. But it was a good laugh for me, lol. Either way, just like any structural element, the more metal you have the stronger it will be. So the Ritani may add some added strength if it's not too big and truly depending what she does, then it may be a good thing.

    Quick side story about 6 prongs. My fiancee took a girls trip to Boston. While there she snagged on something and bent one way back. Diamond was still in tact and made the trip home. Had it been a 4 prong, the stone would have been gone.


    I love the specs -- 55.6 table, 61.9 depth, 34.7 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 77 LGF. I think it's pretty evident by the video it's a little fireball of awesomeness. But honestly, I don't think I've seen a "bad" ACA, lol. That said, the smaller table and complimentary crown/pavilion angle help make lots of fire. The 77 LGF is near the compromise between fat & skinny arrows and helps balance the stone very nicely IMO.

    The size bump is pretty considerable, about 0.50mm. As I noted earlier, most people can see a difference at 0.20mm when rings are side by side. This is about 2.5 times that difference. I think it would be a significant of a size to interest me, especially since the cut quality is there just like the others we already discussed.

    My two potential issues. First, I don't like the black crystal this is about smack dab in the middle of the table. But it's a VS2 and most likely you'd never see that with your naked eye. If you ever did see it, could you unsee it? The reality is WF is picky about their stones, and I seriously doubt it's an issue. I'd still have to ask to put my mind at ease, but admittedly I suffer from "mind clean" issues which is something that drives me nuts knowing it's there. I pray you don't, as it's a costly issue to keep fixing.

    Second, the color. I got my fiancee an H colored stone super ideal from BGD. It has proportions that favor brilliance and whiteness. After presenting, I learned she was very color sensitive and could easily see the tint. While I can see the tint, I feel is she does so much more easily. Reading some stuff here, many women tend to be the same way. So don't feel bad if your woman sees it and you can't, lol. Luckily my girl is also color tolerant meaning even though she sees it, she isn't bothered by it. On a side note, when out in public we never get any comments about the color but plenty about the beauty and fire it exhibits.

    But honestly, color is just so personal. Sounds like your girl is part of this process, so if I were to jump to an I in your situation, I would let her look at some stones in person at a local store that are of similar size and GIA/AGS certified before committing to it.


    WF is extremely trust worthy. If you don't get rewards, miles, etc that outweigh the 3% savings then I'd put the cash in your pocket if I were you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  20. rockysalamander
    Ideal_Rock

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    by rockysalamander » Feb 7, 2019
    Yup. I was not joking. If she had a job or hobby that is causing her hands to be "rough" a setting with prongs may be better set aside in favor of a bezel. Like the WF Cameron. Diamonds don't scratch easy, but they do chip.
     
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  21. 1amaN00b
    Rough_Rock

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    by 1amaN00b » Feb 7, 2019
    @sledge - I'm going with the 18K white gold setting (WF tapered one - 1463). Not worth it to save the $50 bucks. She's not a fan of yellow gold in general (hence she doesn't like warm white color). That's why she wouldn't like the I color because she'll definitely notice the yellow tint and it will bother her. She already said no! Especially the black spot in the center of the 1.6ct even though she won't see it. The WF rep said overall the 1.344ct one is a better stone. She actually took a cutout of the 1.344ct stone and had it on her finger to see how it looks. She's fine with the size for now.

    You are absolutely right about 4 vs. 6 prongs. Not only is the 6 prongs more secure, it doesn't look square. The WF rep said she can request to have the prongs more secure (not sure what that means) when they assemble the diamond into the setting.

    The WF rep is taking some pictures of the setting along with the type of wedding band SO wants (diamond bezel wedding band) so we can see how it looks together.

    @rockysalamander SO has an office job who stares at the computer and bosses ppl around all day ;-). However, she's very klutzy. She has a ring from 15+ years ago that she banged up (it's oval shape now) but don't remember if it's 14k or 18k.

    By the way, out of curiosity, I had to go back to the original James Allen diamond I was interested in. What do you know? It's gone! Good luck to whoever bought it!
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  22. blueMA
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by blueMA » Feb 7, 2019
    I recommend the wire transfer for the discount. Whiteflash is a very reputable company and will refund your money if need be.
     
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  23. Lykame
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Lykame » Feb 7, 2019
    @1amaN00b, thoroughly enjoyed the journey you've been on during this thread, you have made a fabulous choice and obtained a much better diamond than you were originally going to get. Your future fiancée will be blown away by the light performance of this diamond (and so will you).

    I am very impressed that you clearly listened to all the advice here and used that advice to make the best balanced decision for your circumstances.

    We cannot wait for ongoing updates and pictures and handshots!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  24. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Feb 7, 2019
    @1amaN00b, good call on sticking with the 1.344 G VS2. I do like a bigger stone, but as you indicated it's really about knowing you and your partner's preferences. Technically you could probably hit a 2 carat stone if you were willing to sacrifice enough on color and clarity. And for some people that will be all that matters. Like you, I don't always find the best value in the lowest priced or biggest item. The fact your partner is aware what is going on and prefers this route makes it that much easier.

    So job well done brother, very well done. :clap: Can't wait to see the finished piece!

    Also, reading through this post I caught you were a little concerned with durability and strength of the 18k vs 14k ring. That is a good question. Not sure if you read that article I linked earlier from BGD, but this was addressed as well.

    https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/news/difference-14k-18k-white-gold-engagement-ring/

     
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  25. rockysalamander
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    by rockysalamander » Feb 7, 2019
    18 k wHite gold is yellowed than 14k under the rhodium plating. If and when the plating wears off, the color of the metal will be more obvious. IF you want white metal, platinum , palladium, palladium white gold, 14k white, 18 k wHite in that order. The last two are made by alloying with nickel, which I'd what make it whiter.
     
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  26. 1amaN00b
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    by 1amaN00b » Feb 7, 2019
    @Lykame Thank you!

    @sledge Thank you sir for suggesting such a beautiful stone :)! I read the BGD article and based on that, determined to go with 18K white gold especially when the difference is not that substantial.

    BUT, after reading @rockysalamander post, I don't know anymore! I definitely won't be getting the platinum setting, so now I have to do more research on 14K vs. 18K white gold. If I go with 14K, it'll only be $50 cheaper and won't be as luxurious. If I go with 18K, it'll be softer (not by much) and color will wear off to a yellowish color more apparent than the 14K.

    Decisions Decisions Decisions!

    While I try and research more, I would like to gather more data points from you experts what you have chosen/will choose as a setting and why so it can help me make my decision.

    Again, as always, thanks for your help!
     
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  27. kal2021
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    by kal2021 » Feb 7, 2019
    Is it at all possible for you to go Platinum? No worries about it yellowing and at only $400 more you won't have to worry about having it dipped/plated in the future (which does cost money). For such a special ring and diamond, I would do what I could to get it in Platinum. I'm sure you will upgrade some day, but who knows when that will be. For me personally, Platinum = engagement ring, unless of course someone wants yellow or rose gold.
     
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  28. blueMA
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  29. rockysalamander
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    by rockysalamander » Feb 7, 2019
    Platinum and palladium are more of a grey-white, but a solid colored metal that require no plating. They are a squishier metal. That is what makes them great for diamonds. If the setting is damaged, the platinum will tend to deform and hold onto the diamonds, and is easy to work into tiny little prongs and beads (like for pave). Platinum also does not thin through wear or scratching. But, it will not be mirror-shiny unless you get it buffed annually (more or less). I love the lack of shine. If you start with a shiny ring, it will get less shiny as the scratches really flatten and squish the metal. Platinum is non-reactive to most things.

    Gold is harder in that it does not deform. Under pressure, it will tend to break. So, it can result in more lost stones. Gold will also wear away over time. So the bottom of many good setting will need to be re-shanked once or twice over a lifetime, depending on the wearer and the thickness of the metal. Gold will hold onto etched details better than platinum. It used to be more the metal of choice as the price difference was huge between gold and platinum. Now, the base materials are similar. Gold will get shinier over time as the scratches of daily wear combine. At some point, they can get annoying and buffing is preferred. But, you lose metal over time with buffing. Gold will also become more brittle over time with exposure to chlorine via cleaning products, swimming and such.

    White gold is made by take yellow gold and alloying with nickel (in the US) and bits of other metals. So, the "white" is really based on the amount of nickel. So, 9k is "whiter" than 22k. The higher the karat, the softer as well. A 22 or 24 k ring can be deformed by simple wear. I managed to pull a 22k, chain through the bail on a 24K pendant. In yellow gold, the higher karat gold is more yellow/orange and can look more "expensive" to some or simply preferred in certain cultures. Some, myself included, are highly reactive to nickel. So, nickel white gold is out for me.

    Long story short, I prefer platinum. But, if your girl wants white metal and shiny, choose 14k white gold.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  30. ringo865
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