Need help finding an RB Hearts & Arrows

[_kat]

Hello everyone,

I'm on a hunt for an RB Hearts & Arrows diamond. My budget is $7400. 1.00+ carat, F/G colour, VS2. Please tell me what you think of the diamond below.
OR Should I go Lower in Colour (I) and a larger diamond (1.25). My ring size is 4.5, and the setting I am choosing is a halo. I don't want it to look too large!

THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I generally look for the crown angle to be from 34.0-35.0, but that stone may be fine.

 

[_kat]

I generally look for the crown angle to be from 34.0-35.0, but that stone may be fine.

thank you diamondseeker!! is there anything else you would recommend in terms of dimensions and etc?

 

[_kat]

Hello again,

I was looking at BlueNile, and they have several diamonds in the range that I was looking at, although these diamonds are not indicated to be hearts and arrows, I know that most of them if cut the right way will have hearts and arrows. Bluenile seems to be more affordable. What I do not understand is why some retailers such as James Allen, Brian Gavin and ERD indicate their hearts and arrows and charge more for these, as opposed to looking for the dimensions and percentages that make a diamond have hearts and arrows. Are these diamonds based on their version of a true hearts and arrows? Now I am so confused because the hearts and arrows values that are shown by GIA vary quite significantly. I just want to have the most brilliance and fire that I can afford. Can anyone please help? I think I'm going to faint looking for this diamond. I have gone through so much to return one previously and I just want to finally have a perfect ring. Thank you!

Found a couple more from bluenile:

 

[GreenBling]

I'm not an expert but exactly because I'm not, I'd look for diamond with specs that fall into both GIA XXX and AGS ideal. I'd also factor in the table size. I have discovered through research that I prefer small/medium to big tables.

I learned more about my taste from watching Good Old Gold YouTube videos.

Do you know what your taste is with regards to angles, table, crown height etc?

 

[_kat]

I'm not an expert but exactly because I'm not, I'd look for diamond with specs that fall into both GIA XXX and AGS ideal. I'd also factor in the table size. I have discovered through research that I prefer small/medium to big tables.

I learned more about my taste from watching Good Old Gold YouTube videos.

Do you know what your taste is with regards to angles, table, crown height etc?

Thank you GreebBling. I honestly do not know what my taste is with regards to tables, angles and crown heights and etc. which is why I'm having such a difficult time finding the perfect ring. I really don't know what differences 1 degree or 2 percentages make. I am trying to go by GIA dimensions, but their ranges are so wide that I can't pinpoint which diamond to buy, and to be honesty I don't know if I can tell the difference. Also, I thought I was convinced I would go with a 1.25 hearts and arrows, I colour, VS1, but now a friend is telling me that the difference between an F/G colour is significant and that I should go with a 1.00 G/F VS2 instead. I am so confused and needing ALOT of help =( . I'm going to take your advice and watch some youtube videos to see if I can figure out my preferences! Thank you!

 

[0-0-0]

It's impossible to know whether a stone is H&A or not based on the info provided on a GIA report. Even with a GIA EX cut stone with safe numbers we can only guess that it's reasonably well cut with minimal leakage. The optical symmetry of the stone as indicated by the stone's H&A patterns can still be off.

 

[_kat]

It's impossible to know whether a stone is H&A or not based on the info provided on a GIA report. Even with a GIA EX cut stone with safe numbers we can only guess that it's reasonably well cut with minimal leakage. The optical symmetry of the stone as indicated by the stone's H&A patterns can still be off.

Thanks for your reply! My question now is, how can we be assured that it is a true H&A's? Especially when buying online and we cannot look visibly at the diamond!

 

[madelise]

You don't need a "true" H&A, since it's branded, and will cost you a hefty premium. If you want premium optics, just stick with GIA XXX, use the HCA tool to weed out anything that is more than a 2.0, and ask for idealscope images. James Allen lets you get up to 3 IS images for potential diamonds, and you can post those IS images up to get advice from our resident pro posters. Or you can look for AGS 0's and in that case, you don't even need to bother with the HCA/IS… I think.

G VS2 is the usual sweet spot for most people/PSers. I have eagle eyes, and can tell the difference between a F and a G next to each other, when lined up, but if you take away the F, I still process G as being white.

I think most people we ark J-M IRL, and just don't know it.

 

[madelise]

Are you okay with fluo, Kat? That can lower your price a bit to get an ideal cut diamond?

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...1.026-h-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104061006058
or
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...1.010-H-VS2-Round-Diamond-AGS-BL-104061006008

 

[madelise]

ooh ooh ooh what about buying a preloved stone? $5750 OBO, and its being held at BGD.

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-diamond/1-dot-168-bgd-round-brilliant-i-si1

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am sorry I keep dropping in when I don't have much time to do a search for you, but the only way to get a true hearts and arrows stone is to buy one from Good Old Gold, WhiteFlash, Brian Gavin, or James Allen. Those all show you the hearts and arrows images. You cannot determine that from stones without that information. I would not buy a stone for which I could not see even pictures. I will see what I can find.

 

[0-0-0]

It's impossible to know whether a stone is H&A or not based on the info provided on a GIA report. Even with a GIA EX cut stone with safe numbers we can only guess that it's reasonably well cut with minimal leakage. The optical symmetry of the stone as indicated by the stone's H&A patterns can still be off.

Thanks for your reply! My question now is, how can we be assured that it is a true H&A's? Especially when buying online and we cannot look visibly at the diamond!

If you want to be assured that a stone is a true H&A, you need to check out the stone in a H&A viewer, or ask the vendor to provide H&A images. AGS also generates simulated hearts images on some of its reports.

 

[_kat]

You don't need a "true" H&A, since it's branded, and will cost you a hefty premium. If you want premium optics, just stick with GIA XXX, use the HCA tool to weed out anything that is more than a 2.0, and ask for idealscope images. James Allen lets you get up to 3 IS images for potential diamonds, and you can post those IS images up to get advice from our resident pro posters. Or you can look for AGS 0's and in that case, you don't even need to bother with the HCA/IS… I think.

G VS2 is the usual sweet spot for most people/PSers. I have eagle eyes, and can tell the difference between a F and a G next to each other, when lined up, but if you take away the F, I still process G as being white.

I think most people we ark J-M IRL, and just don't know it.

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH!! I think I want to stay above an H. I also found an H VS2 in price range. And since you can tell the difference between an F and G, I am sure you can tell even more with an H! lol.

I am really leaning towards the 1.05 in my first post. My only concern is the crown angle at 33. I spoke to Mark from ERD where I am looking to purchase this from and he says that it is because some cutters like to create a little more brilliance which is why they cut it to 33. This was his reply:

Hi Katrina:

As I had indicated to you in the previous email, H&A is a marketing tool for every company other than 1.That company only cuts H&A type diamonds but for 20% more. This is extremely close to an H&A based on my knowledge as a gemologist. I wish I could say yes but no one can really state this. Your budget for what you want is very tight and of the 3 diamonds in the market this is by far the best one. There is very little difference between a 34 and 33 angle and many cutters cut to 33 as it does creat a little more brilliance in the diamond. I would recommend this diamond to you based on your initial request.

 

[_kat]

I am sorry I keep dropping in when I don't have much time to do a search for you, but the only way to get a true hearts and arrows stone is to buy one from Good Old Gold, WhiteFlash, Brian Gavin, or James Allen. Those all show you the hearts and arrows images. You cannot determine that from stones without that information. I would not buy a stone for which I could not see even pictures. I will see what I can find.

Thank you diamondseeker! Your input has been so helpful! I'm going to ask Mark for the pictures of the diamond he presented.
I also have time on my hands...I do not need to purchase a diamond for at least 1 month (but because it's driving me INSANE, I want to get it all over with!). I dont know if I should jump on the 1.05 in the first post or continue to look! I think at this point I do not want to go below a G or a VS2. Thank you again!

 

[_kat]

It's impossible to know whether a stone is H&A or not based on the info provided on a GIA report. Even with a GIA EX cut stone with safe numbers we can only guess that it's reasonably well cut with minimal leakage. The optical symmetry of the stone as indicated by the stone's H&A patterns can still be off.

Thanks for your reply! My question now is, how can we be assured that it is a true H&A's? Especially when buying online and we cannot look visibly at the diamond!

If you want to be assured that a stone is a true H&A, you need to check out the stone in a H&A viewer, or ask the vendor to provide H&A images. AGS also generates simulated hearts images on some of its reports.

Thank you!! Going to ask the vendor for some images!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, here are a couple.


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1520291.asp ($7841 ", diamond is a tiny bit deep which makes it face up a tiny bit smaller than the WF stone)

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1520187.asp ($8067 ")

G VS2's are going to be at the upper end of your budget. Going to H color will get your closer to budget, but I didn't see any great H VS2's. I wouldn't let your friend influence you too much, because they don't know your budget or the quality of stone you are trying to get. In any event, G and H are much whiter than the K color stone!

Whatever you do, don't rush to buy without sufficient information! You need to be 100% sure this time!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Good, it will help to see images of the stone in your first post!

 

[Laila619]

ooh ooh ooh what about buying a preloved stone? $5750 OBO, and its being held at BGD.

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-diamond/1-dot-168-bgd-round-brilliant-i-si1

That's a great buy!

 

[_kat]

Okay, here are a couple.


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1520291.asp ($7841 ", diamond is a tiny bit deep which makes it face up a tiny bit smaller than the WF stone)

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1520187.asp ($8067 ")

G VS2's are going to be at the upper end of your budget. Going to H color will get your closer to budget, but I didn't see any great H VS2's. I wouldn't let your friend influence you too much, because they don't know your budget or the quality of stone you are trying to get. In any event, G and H are much whiter than the K color stone!

Whatever you do, don't rush to buy without sufficient information! You need to be 100% sure this time!

diamondseeker LOVE these!...only scared because its a little over my budget (and I'm taking a loss still for my own diamond ) . I'm waiting for Mark's reply. I will post if he is able to give me images. If not, he does offer 30 days full refund. I feel like the first diamond is a GREAT value and exactly what I was looking for except for the 33 angle you mentioned, but I think I can live with that.

You guys rock. Keep you all posted!!

 

[_kat]

Here is the ASET image of the first diamond I originally posted:

What do we think??! I don't really know what I'm looking at or what to look at LOL....so a little help would be MUCH appreciated!! Thank you SO MUCH!

 

[madelise]

ooh ooh ooh what about buying a preloved stone? $5750 OBO, and its being held at BGD.

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-diamond/1-dot-168-bgd-round-brilliant-i-si1

That's a great buy!

Seriously! I can't wait to see who gets to adopt it

 

[_kat]

ooh ooh ooh what about buying a preloved stone? $5750 OBO, and its being held at BGD.

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-diamond/1-dot-168-bgd-round-brilliant-i-si1

That's a great buy!

Seriously! I can't wait to see who gets to adopt it

I would have loved to purchase it, but I think an I colour would bother me forever. Thank you for the great suggestion though!

 

[_kat]

Here is the ASET image of the first diamond I originally posted:

What do we think??! I don't really know what I'm looking at or what to look at LOL....so a little help would be MUCH appreciated!! Thank you SO MUCH!

Can anyone make suggestions on this? I'm ready to jump the gun!!

 

[madelise]

Since you're worried about color, can you go make a trip out to a B&M location near you to see the diff colors IRL? Honestly, I have an I and it doesn't bother me in the least bit. It's white. Everyone sees it as white. It only looks slightly tinted when RIGHT NEXT to a whiter stone. I don't start to think things look warm until ~K, really.. some J's.

The only reason I'm even suggesting this is bc of your previous, deleted thread. You were very clear. You obviously want the best bang for your buck. To get the best bang, you need to see where you can maximize the penny's worth. If you can't process a difference between a G, H or I, then you'd be "wasting" $ on the G. If there's a VS2 or SI1 inclusion that's eye clean, you'd be "wasting" $ to go up to a VS1. KWIM? See what works for you, and don't listen to your friend's comments. Do your own research. And just know that a well cut diamond will always look bigger, brighter, and whiter than a crappy cut one.

For a quicky lesson on color, see these videos:
http://youtu.be/9V_Ng2-8OmE
and
http://youtu.be/vcmSj8dOLRI

They helped me a lot create my own personal limits of color that I like.

Of course, videos aren't as good as your own eyes, so I def still say you go bling browsing Just make sure the diamonds' color you're observing are GIA graded so you're comparing apples to apples.

 

[madelise]

Do you need to "jump the gun" at the moment? Or do you think you can look around some more?

Here are two threads showing color comparisons.

Showing a lot of different color comparisons:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-color-comparisons.130468/

Showing D vs. G and D vs. K:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/any-top-up-color-comparison-photos.37981/

A quote from Dreamer's thread:
"you *need* to see diamonds of different colors in person to truly determine your own preferences and comfort levels."

 

[_kat]

Do you need to "jump the gun" at the moment? Or do you think you can look around some more?

Here are two threads showing color comparisons.

Showing a lot of different color comparisons:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-color-comparisons.130468/

Showing D vs. G and D vs. K:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/any-top-up-color-comparison-photos.37981/

A quote from Dreamer's thread:
"you *need* to see diamonds of different colors in person to truly determine your own preferences and comfort levels."

Amazing threads! You offer quite valid points. I actually saw a 1.25 I colour VS1 also and was going to go with that. I am going to take your advice and go to a diamond store (Im not sure what B&M means!) and see if I can even look at a difference between colours!
Thank you again for your help!!!
I think it is between this 1.05 G VS2 and the 1.25 I VS1....the price difference is $200 more for the I stone.
Do you have any opinions on the ASET images? I'm not sure how to read them, I know red is supposed to be good, but not quite sure what to make of the green. Thanks again!!

 

[madelise]

Amazing threads! You offer quite valid points. I actually saw a 1.25 I colour VS1 also and was going to go with that. I am going to take your advice and go to a diamond store (Im not sure what B&M means!) and see if I can even look at a difference between colours!
Thank you again for your help!!!
I think it is between this 1.05 G VS2 and the 1.25 I VS1....the price difference is $200 more for the I stone.
Do you have any opinions on the ASET images? I'm not sure how to read them, I know red is supposed to be good, but not quite sure what to make of the green. Thanks again!!

That's why I highly suggest you go see with your own eyes, and make sure the colors you're seeing are GIA graded, and both ideal cuts, so that you're comparing them fair and square. Speaking as someone who doesn't really see the difference between a G and an I unless side by side, I'd rather get the 1.25 and a larger spread, than the 1. In fact, I'd even drop the VS1, and go lower to a VS2 or SI1, so long as it's eye clean from a 12" distance. I'm a size ho

I don't know how to read ASET images well so I'm sorry I'm no help there. I'm sure the pros will chime in when they can

 

[_kat]

Amazing threads! You offer quite valid points. I actually saw a 1.25 I colour VS1 also and was going to go with that. I am going to take your advice and go to a diamond store (Im not sure what B&M means!) and see if I can even look at a difference between colours!
Thank you again for your help!!!
I think it is between this 1.05 G VS2 and the 1.25 I VS1....the price difference is $200 more for the I stone.
Do you have any opinions on the ASET images? I'm not sure how to read them, I know red is supposed to be good, but not quite sure what to make of the green. Thanks again!!

That's why I highly suggest you go see with your own eyes, and make sure the colors you're seeing are GIA graded, and both ideal cuts, so that you're comparing them fair and square. Speaking as someone who doesn't really see the difference between a G and an I unless side by side, I'd rather get the 1.25 and a larger spread, than the 1. In fact, I'd even drop the VS1, and go lower to a VS2 or SI1, so long as it's eye clean from a 12" distance. I'm a size ho

I don't know how to read ASET images well so I'm sorry I'm no help there. I'm sure the pros will chime in when they can

LOL! It is actually a $100 dollar difference between the G and I...you have put some perspective in my head!! AHHHHH just got completely confused again. I'm he won't be too happy with this LOL I've been e-mailing him ALL DAY. I definitely want to stay within the VS2 range...even though you can't see it, for some reason It will bother me!
Both diamonds are hearts and arrows, both GIA graded I'm asking for the GIA report for the I now....it is between these two for SURE!! Thanks for your help/opinions!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

kat, the ASET image of the stone is great! So if you decide on that one, it should be very nice!

I'll tell you that I prefer G or H for a ring stone, so my recommendation might be to consider H VS2 to get a little more size.

The problem with going to a jewelry store to look at color is that their lights are designed to make all the diamonds look sparkly and you simply can't tell much about color. You really have to have a stone in all your normal lighting environments to know how you feel about it. But the best test for me is outdoors in daylight but out of the sun. That is the best place to judge color, for me.