Need Help Evaluating ASET, Idealscope and H&A

[Mountain1120]

I have been religiously reading up on this forum. I've learned so much information but I still feel there so much to learn. I now need help evaluating this stone. The details are:

Measurements
7.57 - 7.61 x 4.74 mm
Carat Weight
1.70carat
Color Grade
H
Clarity Grade
VS2
Cut Grade
Excellent

Depth
62.5%
Table
57%
Crown Angle
35.5°
Crown Height
15.5%
Pavilion Angle
40.6°
Pavilion Depth
43.0%
Star Length
50%
Lower Half
80%
Girdle
Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet
None



What is everyone's thoughts?

 

[sledge]

I think you can do better. What is your criteria & budget, and we can toss out some better options.

FYI, here is one that is almost identical but a true H&A super ideal....depending on your budget, this may work or we may need to alter some criteria to get you in budget and a well cut stone...

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3988016.htm

 

[Mountain1120]

I think you can do better. What is your criteria & budget, and we can toss out some better options.

FYI, here is one that is almost identical but a true H&A super ideal....depending on your budget, this may work or we may need to alter some criteria to get you in budget and a well cut stone...

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3988016.htm

Is there something that is unfavorable about this stone?

I would greatly appreciate help finding something better. My budget is about $12k.

 

[sledge]

I will use the WF ACA images that I linked above for you to compare. Additionally I have marked up.

You see how hearts aren't cut symmetrically?


Here, you can see light leakage. The light blue circles show more non-symmetry.


Again, this ASET image provides confirmation of the light leakage and is why there is more green. You typically want a dark red. Some light green is normal as shown on the WF image.

 

[sledge]

Here is one that is within a few hundred bucks of your budget. Color is one level lower and carat weight is smaller; however, dimensions are not very far from your original stone -- 7.43 x 7.45mm.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-1466947.htm

Here is another (dimensions are a little smaller than above, but still within reason):
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3985923.htm

This one is a J SI1 but I'd prefer the cert to be a little more clean (for my own tastes):
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3979463.htm

 

[sledge]

If you don't mind dropping to a K in color...then wowsa....

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/1.711-k-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104091555015

Under budget, and as you can see, the K still looks nice & bright. One of the advantages of getting a better cut diamond is you can slide down the color scale a little bit and it faces up whiter.

 

[flyingpig]

IMHO, the OP's stone is just fine and beautiful in my book. It does not have significant light leakage. The digging around the edges is not too bad. How much are they charging?

 

[ac117]

Agree with @flyingpig - you don't always need to have a super ideal stone to have a beautiful diamond and I think the original one will be a very nice choice. Is it absolutely perfectly cut? No. But you're also not paying for that. As posted by sledge, a similar WF stone in size/specs is $6k more, and I personally wouldn't go all the way down to a J.

 

[sledge]

Agree with @flyingpig - you don't always need to have a super ideal stone to have a beautiful diamond and I think the original one will be a very nice choice. Is it absolutely perfectly cut? No. But you're also not paying for that. As posted by sledge, a similar WF stone in size/specs is $6k more, and I personally wouldn't go all the way down to a J.

This is true, it's not perfectly cut but it's not horrendous by any stretch. I am a strong believer in super ideal cuts so I am biased, but not everyone shares my view points. There are plenty of stones that are great that aren't ideal cut.

It really is a money balancing act. You need to determine what is most important to you and then proceed accordingly.

 

[ac117]

This is true, it's not perfectly cut but it's not horrendous by any stretch. I am a strong believer in super ideal cuts so I am biased, but not everyone shares my view points. There are plenty of stones that are great that aren't ideal cut.

It really is a money balancing act. You need to determine what is most important to you and then proceed accordingly.

Yes, but we also need to understand OP's wants/budget before we throw out super ideals. They're not for everyone and this is about helping them find what suits THEIR needs, not yours! It would be beneficial to be a bit more versatile in your suggestions so people know all of their options and not poo poo on stones that aren't super ideal so that those buying them don't feel bad when there's nothing glaringly terrible about them in the first place.

 

[sledge]

Yes, but we also need to understand OP's wants/budget before we throw out super ideals. They're not for everyone and this is about helping them find what suits THEIR needs, not yours! It would be beneficial to be a bit more versatile in your suggestions so people know all of their options and not poo poo on stones that aren't super ideal so that those buying them don't feel bad when there's nothing glaringly terrible about them in the first place.

My apologies if any of my previous posts or suggestions were offensive. They certainly were not meant in that manner. Perhaps I analyze information differently than others. I like knowing strengths & weaknesses. In my head, knowing those allows me to create a plan to either work around them, or eliminate them in their entirety.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I'm picky. I must see 8 matching hearts.

 

[Mountain1120]

IMHO, the OP's stone is just fine and beautiful in my book. It does not have significant light leakage. The digging around the edges is not too bad. How much are they charging?

This one is about $11,400. Attached is an OGI Systems report I received. However, I have not seen these reports before but everything appears to be good. Any thoughts?

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgMewDvnIw3rkX_Vo48soT3iAsSn

 

[flyingpig]

It is not the best cut stone. But I would certainly consider buying a stone with such cut quality as long as the price is right. I certainly would not pay additional 6.5k or more than 50% to get a super ideal cut.

I am sure it is, but just to confirm. Is this a GIA stone?

 

[Mountain1120]

Agree with @flyingpig - you don't always need to have a super ideal stone to have a beautiful diamond and I think the original one will be a very nice choice. Is it absolutely perfectly cut? No. But you're also not paying for that. As posted by sledge, a similar WF stone in size/specs is $6k more, and I personally wouldn't go all the way down to a J.

Thanks! I understand that it is not an ideal cut diamond and it is priced accordingly. My goal is to find the best cut available for around my budget.

It is not the best cut stone. But I would certainly consider buying a stone with such cut quality as long as the price is right. I certainly would not pay additional 6.5k or more than 50% to get a super ideal cut.

I am sure it is, but just to confirm. Is this a GIA stone?

Yes, it is a GIA stone. Is there something in the OGI Systems report that specifically shows its not well cut or any other issues you see in that report?

I was able to secure the pricing a couple weeks ago and current prices are at least $1k higher for similar diamonds.

 

[blueMA]

I prefer the first one over the last one - you'll see more bold flashes of sparkles than the last one with more smaller dispersion. It depends on your taste but they'll show very different personalities. The earlier stone will behave closer to superideals to the naked eyes than the latter.

 

[Mountain1120]

I prefer the first one over the last one - you'll see more bold flashes of sparkles than the last one with more smaller dispersion. It depends on your taste but they'll show very different personalities. The earlier stone will behave closer to superideals to the naked eyes than the latter.

@blueMA, the diamond in my original post is the same as the one in the OGI Systems report. Or are you referring to the stones posted by @sledge?

 

[ac117]

Thanks! I understand that it is not an ideal cut diamond and it is priced accordingly. My goal is to find the best cut available for around my budget.



Yes, it is a GIA stone. Is there something in the OGI Systems report that specifically shows its not well cut or any other issues you see in that report?

I was able to secure the pricing a couple weeks ago and current prices are at least $1k higher for similar diamonds.

I completely get it and I think you definitely did well for the size and specs of this stone.

I saw the report briefly before you changed it to a link (which I can't open at work). I remember seeing a bit of a range in the angles (which are then averaged together for your crown and pavilion angles) but that didn't surprise me given the light return images/cut.

 

[sledge]

I completely get it and I think you definitely did well for the size and specs of this stone.

I saw the report briefly before you changed it to a link (which I can't open at work). I remember seeing a bit of a range in the angles (which are then averaged together for your crown and pavilion angles) but that didn't surprise me given the light return images/cut.

Image attached for reference:

 

[sledge]

Using the average graph data in your report....

 

[sledge]

One more piece of data to help you evaluate, the HCA tool (compliments of this site). Typically we like to see 2 or less. But as you can see this stone is a 2.2 so it's very close.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

 

[blueMA]

Table
57%
Crown Angle
35.5°
Crown Height
15.5%
Pavilion Angle
40.6°
Girdle
Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%

Well that's odd given that the AGS specs you've included show table for 56, pavillion of 40.8, CH of 15.1%, Girdle 4.3, and the H&A image has distinctively thinner arrows along with what looks to be a ring of death. The pavilion difference of 0.1 makes a huge difference alone.
If it's the same stone, you can ignore my comment since I went by the stats you've provided earlier.

 

[sledge]

Well that's odd given that the AGS specs you've included show table for 56, pavillion of 40.8, CH of 15.1%, Girdle 4.3, and the H&A image has distinctively thinner arrows along with what looks to be a ring of death. The pavilion difference of 0.1 makes a huge difference alone.
If it's the same stone, you can ignore my comment since I went by the stats you've provided earlier.

Good catch. I normally double check, but missed it. OP, is the OGI report for the same stone that you posted the specs above that @blueMA pointed out?

 

[flyingpig]

Buy the stone. It is a fabulous stone at a great price.

 

[Mountain1120]

Well that's odd given that the AGS specs you've included show table for 56, pavillion of 40.8, CH of 15.1%, Girdle 4.3, and the H&A image has distinctively thinner arrows along with what looks to be a ring of death. The pavilion difference of 0.1 makes a huge difference alone.
If it's the same stone, you can ignore my comment since I went by the stats you've provided earlier.

Very good catch indeed. I missed it as well. Yes, it is supposed to be the same stone. The GIA is 7288263770.

One more piece of data to help you evaluate, the HCA tool (compliments of this site). Typically we like to see 2 or less. But as you can see this stone is a 2.2 so it's very close.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Using the GIA number and the numbers shown by GIA, it comes in as a 1.5

I completely get it and I think you definitely did well for the size and specs of this stone.

I saw the report briefly before you changed it to a link (which I can't open at work). I remember seeing a bit of a range in the angles (which are then averaged together for your crown and pavilion angles) but that didn't surprise me given the light return images/cut.

Are ranges in the angles to be expected or is that a result of an inferior cutting job? While the differences between those reported by GIA and those on the OGI aren't very large from a numerical standpoint, they throw off the HCA score by a decent amount.

 

[ac117]

Are ranges in the angles to be expected or is that a result of an inferior cutting job? While the differences between those reported by GIA and those on the OGI aren't very large from a numerical standpoint, they throw off the HCA score by a decent amount.

Large ranges can be from non-precision cutting (compared to a super ideal) or it could be strategically done to retain weight especially when stones are close to the carat or half carat marks. Even super ideal stones have a range, albeit a much tighter range usually within +/-.1

It sounds like this is the incorrect OGI systems report though, no? Regardless, the light return images show that this will be a very nice stone - it's not super ideal but still very nice!

 

[blueMA]

I searched for diamonds before replying earlier - I didn't see anything better below your budget out there, so I agree with @flyingpig that the stone is a decent buy at the price.

However, as @sledge pointed out earlier, this stone is not cut to the exacting standard as the superideals, and two of the pavillion main facets are at 40.5 while the rest are 40.8-40.9. GIA reports the average but seemed to have reported it a the lower end.

Ultimately, if you can view the stone in person and if it looks lively and beautiful, then that's what really counts.

 

[Mountain1120]

Large ranges can be from non-precision cutting (compared to a super ideal) or it could be strategically done to retain weight especially when stones are close to the carat or half carat marks. Even super ideal stones have a range, albeit a much tighter range usually within +/-.1

It sounds like this is the incorrect OGI systems report though, no? Regardless, the light return images show that this will be a very nice stone - it's not super ideal but still very nice!

It seems as the OGI report is incorrect, but that is what I was sent. Vendor A is selling this stone and Vendor B (who I am working with for the setting) obtained the stone for evaluation and sent me the OGI report, ASET, Idealscope and H&A images. Vendor B is well-reviewed on this site and actually encouraged me to purchase through Vendor A since they offer a return policy and it was cheaper than he could get it for. He says the diamond is good and he would be happy with it.

I searched for diamonds before replying earlier - I didn't see anything better below your budget out there, so I agree with @flyingpig that the stone is a decent buy at the price.

However, as @sledge pointed out earlier, this stone is not cut to the exacting standard as the superideals, and two of the pavillion main facets are at 40.5 while the rest are 40.8-40.9. GIA reports the average but seemed to have reported it a the lower end.

Ultimately, if you can view the stone in person and if it looks lively and beautiful, then that's what really counts.

BlueNile had this exact stone listed for $13,609. https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD10277741

I have not viewed the stone in person but Vendor B states it's a good stone. Below is the link to the video of the stone. I was originally concerned with the inclusions being visible but Vendor B confirmed it is eye clean. Since Vendor B is not making a dime from selling me the stone along with his stellar reputation on this site, I believe him.

http://info.stonehdfile.com/Online/Transaction/StonePktDtl.aspx?pktcode=518204392

 

[ac117]

It seems as the OGI report is incorrect, but that is what I was sent. Vendor A is selling this stone and Vendor B (who I am working with for the setting) obtained the stone for evaluation and sent me the OGI report, ASET, Idealscope and H&A images. Vendor B is well-reviewed on this site and actually encouraged me to purchase through Vendor A since they offer a return policy and it was cheaper than he could get it for. He says the diamond is good and he would be happy with it.



BlueNile had this exact stone listed for $13,609. https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD10277741

I have not viewed the stone in person but Vendor B states it's a good stone. Below is the link to the video of the stone. I was originally concerned with the inclusions being visible but Vendor B confirmed it is eye clean. Since Vendor B is not making a dime from selling me the stone along with his stellar reputation on this site, I believe him.

http://info.stonehdfile.com/Online/Transaction/StonePktDtl.aspx?pktcode=518204392

You could trust Yekutiel I found a video of the stone, too. Remember it's taken at high magnification but I would agree it will be eye clean: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...7-Carat-H-Color-VS2-Clarity-Diamond-394989347