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need help deciding between 2 diamonds

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Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
28
I need help deciding between a D VVS2 and a F IF, both cost around the same. Both looks great at the dealer. Can't decide......

Thanks for any comments. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year :)


0.81 D VVS2 GIA 3EX
(Pinpoint, Surface Graining)


Length:5.98
Width:6.01
Depth:3.66
Total Depth:61.05%
Table percent:59%
Crown height:14%
Girdle (from):Medium
Girdle (to):Slightly thick
Polish:Excellent / Very Good
Symmetry:Excellent / Very Good
Crown angle:34.5
Pavilion angle: 40.8
Pavilion depth:43%
lower girdle facet length:80%

AGA/NAJA CUT CLASS DIAMOND GRADING SCREENING TOOL
Tab Percent: 1B
Crown Angle: 1A
Crown Height: 1B
Pavilion Depth: 1A
Girdle: 1A
Depth: 1A
Polish: 1A
Symmetry: 1A
TotalGrade: 1B


HCA score 1.7
Light Return Excellent
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Very Good





0.81 F IF GIA 3EX


Length:5.92
Width:5.94
Depth:3.72
Total Depth:62.73%
Table percent:58%
Crown height:15%
Girdle (from):Slightly thick
Girdle (to):Slightly thick
Polish:Excellent / Very Good
Symmetry:Excellent / Very Good
Crown angle:35
Pravilion angle: 41.2
Pavilion depth:43.5%
lower girdle facet length:75%

AGA/NAJA CUT CLASS DIAMOND GRADING SCREENING TOOL
Tab Percent: 1A
Crown Angle: 1B
Crown Height: 1A
Pavilion Depth: 1B
Girdle: 1A
Depth: 1B
Polish: 1A
Symmetry: 1A
TotalGrade: 1B

HCA = 3.8
Light Return Very Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
 
Do you really need that level of clarity and colour? You can get a G colour VS2 with an ideal cut and higher carat weight than you have there and you may be happier. What's your budget and the guys here will guide you.

A top cut at VS and G will beat those stones in my opinion, probably bigger too.

Cheers
 
thank you for your input. I am not looking for a bigger stone.

I am looking for a diamond in the D - F range, 0.81 carat, must be vvs2 or higher.
 
Hi,

Thanks for clarifying. Just to check, I assume you understand that the difference between an F and G is near imperceptible for most and only then when you are comparing side by side? Also that working in the VVS range is not adding anything performance wise i.e. light return, sparkle etc? I say this because I certainly started looking in the ranges you mentioned before I got more infomation from the guys here. In my case I was aiming high uneccessarily and it's easy to spend a *lot* of money for those colour and clarity ranges but without any real physical benefit. However, understood if that's where you prefer to look.

My next step would be to head over to Whiteflash and Brian Gavin Diamonds to see what they have with your specification. Their 'A Cut Above' and 'Signature' ranges are top end and will beat either of those diamonds you illustrated, particularly the second one. Those vendors also do a second tier of stones which are also good but with slightly lesser cut than their top ranges.

You could also take a look at the other guys, James Allen, Good Old Gold etc who also have a huge selection.

I'd take a look on-line, use the HCA tool (< 2) to weed out the likely non-performers and also check out the light performance images (ASET, Idealscope etc). There is a good education section on this site which tells you more about those important tools. Maybe find a short-list and post them here for some of the experienced guys to help you narrow down. Other than than, you can post your specs and budget and they will probably take a look for you.

Thanks
 
Yes. I have seen D to G in normal ring setting, very hard to tell the difference.

And very hard to tell the difference between loose diamond from D to F by itself without direct comparison over some white background.

The problem I face is very much a cultural perception thing. My fiancée E-ring was a 1.3 carat D IF. That really cost a bomb. However, with the knowledge gain here and various other website. I managed to get a pretty good deal.

Now I am just looking for a more "normal" ring for her everyday wear.
 
I thought that may be the case. However, there are guys (like me initially!) who arrive here and think go for "top spec" because that's what we try to do with all of our other gear. We soon learn that it's not necessarily the case with diamonds and (after a sigh of relief) we settle back to slightly lower specs of colour and clarity which give us an excellent result. So I just thought I'd check.

I understand the cultural perception and, given the constraints you have there, would agree that the 0.81 D VVS is the better bet of the two.

Is it worth trying to show your partner what is available using a different specification? As you know, going to the "colourless" bracket and top clarity add a *lot* to the price for virtually no visual benefit. The problem you might then have is that you potentially present a larger, beautiful ring alongside the original E-ring and cause an issue. Tricky one.

I'm glad it's not my 'dilemma' and good luck with it all!
 
Spec wise the 0.81 D VVS2 GIA 3EX should be a winner. The other one is steep and might exhibit some leakage particularly under thet able.
 
I would choose neither. If you are going for top color and clarity, then of all things, don't compromise on cut. You want the HCA score to say excellent for light return, fire, and scintillation, and very good for spread.

I am not understanding the polish and symmetry grades. They should either be excellent or very good.

Try to find a GIA Ex cut within these parameters:

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9
 
oops, both are GIA 3EX. I just took the data from the AGA/NAJA CUT CLASS DIAMOND GRADING SCREENING TOOL. ( can't reedit my first post)


I am actually using the GIA lookup table. AGS lookup table, HCA score and the AGA/NAJA CUT CLASS DIAMOND GRADING SCREENING TOOL.
 
Round diamond 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough.
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want? Well, we have tools to help you with that. But that is not enough.
What you need after that is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. All our best vendors do though.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. With AGS0 stones you don't strictly need an idealscope image. But getting one is nice to confirm performance and that is why almost all our best vendors provide them for you. Not all AGS0's are created the same though, so if you want to make sure it's the very best cut, post it and we'll evaluate it for you.

Generally you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-36. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-41 (there is a little give on this)

And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA does for you.

ON COLOR:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

ON CLARITY:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/SI/ and http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/VS/ Generally we say that eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants.


Okay?
 
excellent summary :appl:
 
Perfect explanation from Gypsy.

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/diamonds/HPD7628/?shop=yes

Yes it is 0.82ct but it also hits that magic 6mm mark (as it is perfectly cut) than a lot of 0.8ct diamond will not be. Make sure your vendor had a good upgrade policy just incase you decide to buy another in the future and would like to do a trade in.

Good luck in your search.
 
Here's the guy's issue - I think he understands the benefits of dropping a few grades and targeting a top cut but is it going to cause 'problems' if he does:

The problem I face is very much a cultural perception thing.

Yeah - I wouldn't buy anything up in the D/F VVS range but he may be compelled to...

That G/VS2 HPD might just about make it for him although there are Signature cuts at Brian Gavin and ACA at Whiteflash with similar 'ideal' specs for less.
 
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