Need Advice - Diamond Dealer won't honor return policy

[DJHoliday]

Thanks. It isn't really even 100% percent about the money. It is about honoring the agreement. I just want a diamond comparable to the amount that I paid.

Ok, I know you already have David Wolf's appraisal, but ...what did you pay? Did you search the PS database for what you could get for how much you paid?

Yes. I can get a substantially better diamond for what I paid. I was offered a better, GIA certified diamond, at Seawave Diamonds in the district for 20 percent less than I paid. This was after I bought the diamond of course.

 

[DJHoliday]

DJ- a lot of what's been said here can be of use to you- but not that you need to actually do it.
Antagonizing the seller is not going to make your job easier.
If you have to take him to court, then you have to do whatever it takes-
Try and find a way to encourage him to make you go away before you have to do all the work.
IMO trying to start a crusade is useless to you personally.
But if you remind the ...ahem, nice gentleman who sold you this misgraded diamond that you have a lot of places to complain, and that such complaints will hurt his business, that might help you.

Basically try a little sugar coated threats- I really hope you can get your money back
I hate the way people are treated in so many of the stores and booths on 47th street.

You are correct... a crusade is useless to me. I appreciate the post.

This is a store with a long operating history on 47th. It isn't a fly by night booth, which is another reason I find this particularly unsettling.

 

[arkieb1]

O.K I am sorry I misread your post, I thought you had read and lurked on here and then purchased an EGL diamond because people do it all the time, they think they are getting a bargain when really they are just getting ripped off.

I wonder if you can go back to them and tell them you do have legal rights because they sold you something that wasn't accurately described. Tell you are happy to have it appraised again by someone you both agree on and that if they won't give you a full refund then will they swap it for a GIA stone of your choice. If they won't give you your money back then at least getting another GIA graded diamond with decent specs would be better than nothing.

 

[DJHoliday]

O.K I am sorry I misread your post, I thought you had read and lurked on here and then purchased an EGL diamond because people do it all the time, they think they are getting a bargain when really they are just getting ripped off.

I wonder if you can go back to them and tell them you do have legal rights because they sold you something that wasn't accurately described. Tell you are happy to have it appraised again by someone you both agree on and that if they won't give you a full refund then will they swap it for a GIA stone of your choice. If they won't give you your money back then at least getting another GIA graded diamond with decent specs would be better than nothing.

I tried this. I told him to send the stone to GIA and if it comes back an H or even an I, I would keep the stone and pay for the grading. He refused and said as far as he is concerned the deal is done.

 

[WinkHPD]

O.K I am sorry I misread your post, I thought you had read and lurked on here and then purchased an EGL diamond because people do it all the time, they think they are getting a bargain when really they are just getting ripped off.

I wonder if you can go back to them and tell them you do have legal rights because they sold you something that wasn't accurately described. Tell you are happy to have it appraised again by someone you both agree on and that if they won't give you a full refund then will they swap it for a GIA stone of your choice. If they won't give you your money back then at least getting another GIA graded diamond with decent specs would be better than nothing.

I tried this. I told him to send the stone to GIA and if it comes back an H or even an I, I would keep the stone and pay for the grading. He refused and said as far as he is concerned the deal is done.

This vendor is a knowledgeable member of the trade and knew exactly what he was doing, i.e. taking advantage of your lack of knowledge by using the GIA grading scale while using a laboratory known for its abuse of the GIA scale. This, using his knowledge to defraud you, is illegal in both State and Federal laws. You have recourse. Do you have the strength and perseverance to take advantage of that recourse, that is the question.

Letter writing, calling the local news and picketing are probably more quickly rewarding than filing a lawsuit, even in small claims. And, if they work, more certain. I have, in my lifetime, filed and won two small claims actions and was actually paid only for one of them. It was very rewarding to me, emotionally, to win both cases, but it would have been more rewarding to have been paid for both of them. Small claims will always be my last resort due to the time and effort involved and the uncertainty of actually collecting even if you win.

Wink

 

[TrueBlue]

I saw that you paid a deposit on your CC. I don't know the US position but wanted to mention that, in the UK, the CC is jointly liable with the vendor for the full amount even if the consumer just paid the deposit on the CC (here's a summary of the UK position: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_different_ways_of_buying_e/consumer_buying_goods_and_services_on_credit_or_by_debit_card_e/consumer_extra_protection_when_you_buy_on_credit_or_debit_card_e/extra_protection_when_you_buy_with_a_credit_card.htm ). It might be worth investigating this further to see if there's anything similar in the US.

 

[DJHoliday]

O.K I am sorry I misread your post, I thought you had read and lurked on here and then purchased an EGL diamond because people do it all the time, they think they are getting a bargain when really they are just getting ripped off.

I wonder if you can go back to them and tell them you do have legal rights because they sold you something that wasn't accurately described. Tell you are happy to have it appraised again by someone you both agree on and that if they won't give you a full refund then will they swap it for a GIA stone of your choice. If they won't give you your money back then at least getting another GIA graded diamond with decent specs would be better than nothing.

I tried this. I told him to send the stone to GIA and if it comes back an H or even an I, I would keep the stone and pay for the grading. He refused and said as far as he is concerned the deal is done.

This vendor is a knowledgeable member of the trade and knew exactly what he was doing, i.e. taking advantage of your lack of knowledge by using the GIA grading scale while using a laboratory known for its abuse of the GIA scale. This, using his knowledge to defraud you, is illegal in both State and Federal laws. You have recourse. Do you have the strength and perseverance to take advantage of that recourse, that is the question.

Letter writing, calling the local news and picketing are probably more quickly rewarding than filing a lawsuit, even in small claims. And, if they work, more certain. I have, in my lifetime, filed and won two small claims actions and was actually paid only for one of them. It was very rewarding to me, emotionally, to win both cases, but it would have been more rewarding to have been paid for both of them. Small claims will always be my last resort due to the time and effort involved and the uncertainty of actually collecting even if you win.

Wink

I am entirely in agreement with everything that you have written here. In the last 3 weeks, I have learned more about diamonds, the trade, and what entities support which sides of the trade than I have ever wanted to know. Thanks.

 

[DJHoliday]

I saw that you paid a deposit on your CC. I don't know the US position but wanted to mention that, in the UK, the CC is jointly liable with the vendor for the full amount even if the consumer just paid the deposit on the CC (here's a summary of the UK position: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_different_ways_of_buying_e/consumer_buying_goods_and_services_on_credit_or_by_debit_card_e/consumer_extra_protection_when_you_buy_on_credit_or_debit_card_e/extra_protection_when_you_buy_with_a_credit_card.htm ). It might be worth investigating this further to see if there's anything similar in the US.

I never thought of that. Thank you for providing a potential additional angle.

 

[Wednesday]

If you decide to try news outlets, I'd recommend Arnold Diaz of the CW PIX 11 News. He has been a consumer advocate for years on the news in NYC and he is great at what he does.

I hope this all works out for you.

 

[WinkHPD]

<Snip>

I am entirely in agreement with everything that you have written here. In the last 3 weeks, I have learned more about diamonds, the trade, and what entities support which sides of the trade than I have ever wanted to know. Thanks.

Thank you for your kind words.

There is much about my trade that I truly love. It is these dark shadows that make me want to scream at times and I love any action that throws light upon them so that we can bring this wonderful business up to a higher level of professionalism.

Most independent jewelers strive to be your trusted provider and at many times, confidant. Helping to provide a delicious surprise for a loved one requires caring for the emotional success of the journey as much as for making the sale. Both are required for the maximum enjoyment of our clientele.

True professionals are more than just knowledgeable gemologists and jewelers, they are those that care about their clientele and take the extra steps to make the acquisition of jewelry a joyous adventure.

I am sorry that you are working with a man who fails to live up to any standards of his chosen profession.

Wink

 

[Texas Leaguer]

<Snip>

I am entirely in agreement with everything that you have written here. In the last 3 weeks, I have learned more about diamonds, the trade, and what entities support which sides of the trade than I have ever wanted to know. Thanks.

Thank you for your kind words.

There is much about my trade that I truly love. It is these dark shadows that make me want to scream at times and I love any action that throws light upon them so that we can bring this wonderful business up to a higher level of professionalism.

Most independent jewelers strive to be your trusted provider and at many times, confidant. Helping to provide a delicious surprise for a loved one requires caring for the emotional success of the journey as much as for making the sale. Both are required for the maximum enjoyment of our clientele.

True professionals are more than just knowledgeable gemologists and jewelers, they are those that care about their clientele and take the extra steps to make the acquisition of jewelry a joyous adventure.

I am sorry that you are working with a man who fails to live up to any standards of his chosen profession.

Wink

DJ,
I too am very sorry that you have encountered one of the creeps in our business. The vast majority are working hard to meet customers needs in an ethical way and make a fair living living in the process. The scenario you find yourself in is the kind of thing that tarnishes an entire industry.

I think you have been given a broad menu of options in dealing with this. It will be up to you to decide how much you want to invest of yourself in getting recourse. Some of the options will require not much more than some phone calls and/or letter writing. Those are the things I would recommend, and I hope that you do pursue it to the extent that you can spread the word. Shining a bright light on operations like this is really the best way to disinfect the scum.

One word of caution - avoid doing or saying anything that could be used against you. Some of these fraudsters know the criminal justice system very, very well and can even use it as a weapon against you. I have a friend that made some comments a few years ago to warn someone of a ripoff artist here in town. The fraudster sued my friend for defamation and although everything that was said was true, ultimately my friend decided to settle rather than pursuing a drawn out defense. So the fraudster ended up making money that way too. It was sickening.

Good luck to you. Please keep us posted.

 

[HappyNewLife]

wow, I'm so sorry this happened to you. You've gotten tons of good advice, just wanted to offer more support.

 

[ame]

If you're not going to take the advice you've been offered, you're pretty much on your own.

 

[John P]

You're not stupid. You're not irresponsible. Your situation is not even unusual. This is just another note in a sour chorus from jewelry "pros" who elect to use toxic over-grading to their advantage. Many people never realize it. You have ...The good news is that this topic (EGL specifically) is hot. TV, radio, print-news and consumer-protection blogs do indeed love stories with the potential to go viral. Yours has both potential and precedent. Especially with Valentine's Day approaching.

If you choose to help yourself - and others - by spreading awareness here are some suggestions:

1. Write a candid synopsis. Your original post has the relevant info and is composed objectively. No need to rant, just give the facts, but do include the jeweler's negative & profane comments.

2. Link these stories, showing that this is widespread.

From May: WSMV Nashville iTeam Undercover - A tale much like yours
http://www.wsmv.com/clip/10132107/what-happens-when-seeking-refund-at-popular-nashville-jeweler

From October: RapNet Bans EGL Reports From Trading Network, citing WSMV
http://www.jckonline.com/2014/09/09/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network

From December: WSMV claimed to have influenced industry changes (perhaps with good cause).
http://www.wsmv.com/story/27597843/i-team-reports-prompt-changes-in-diamond-industry

If you email consumer-protection media teams, don't be shy about asking for assistance.

3. The Rapaport Group is a diamond industry entity with tremendous scope. They're strongly against over-grading and recently issued this statement to all diamond sellers.

“Consumers must be warned not to trust misleading diamond grading reports and those that sell them. Suppliers must be held responsible for the quaity of the diamonds they sell. The diamond trade must prioritize the protection of consumers above profits.”

Full video here:
http://www.diamonds.net/HonestDiamonds/

The Rapaport Group has even invited contact on this topic.
I suggest you email honestgrading (at) diamonds.net with your story.

4. You can link to this thread you've started. Insiders, both consumer-enthusiasts and pros, have chimed in here saying you're not crazy. There are prior threads on this topic as well.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/polygon-also-bans-egl.206119/

5. If you feel you can make progress with the jeweler you're better armed to visit with him again now. Review the advice here and the links provided. Discuss them with him candidly. Explain that you cannot possibly feel good about this purchase and appeal to his integrity as a provider of diamond-jewelry to reverse the sale.

Be sure to keep us informed. While this is a one-and-done for you, many of us here are industry stakeholders.

Best wishes.

 

[Rockdiamond]

DJ- a lot of what's been said here can be of use to you- but not that you need to actually do it.
Antagonizing the seller is not going to make your job easier.
If you have to take him to court, then you have to do whatever it takes-
Try and find a way to encourage him to make you go away before you have to do all the work.
IMO trying to start a crusade is useless to you personally.
But if you remind the ...ahem, nice gentleman who sold you this misgraded diamond that you have a lot of places to complain, and that such complaints will hurt his business, that might help you.

Basically try a little sugar coated threats- I really hope you can get your money back
I hate the way people are treated in so many of the stores and booths on 47th street.

You are correct... a crusade is useless to me. I appreciate the post.

This is a store with a long operating history on 47th. It isn't a fly by night booth, which is another reason I find this particularly unsettling.

You're welcome.
Yes, some long standing sellers on 47th st have somehow been able to rip people off this way, and stay in business for years.
It really sucks for all of us who really care about our profession. The old saying about "there's a sucker born every minute" is sadly true of many people walking down 47th street....
John had a suggestion that might really help.
Show the butthead this thread.
I lot of people read this forum- and you've not yet "outed" this rip off artist.
So you still have something to hold over his head.


I wish the TV news thing was more promising, but unfortunately in a city the size of NY, the likelihood of getting something on air is slim. Plus, there have been a few "expose's" done in the past year- it's a very widespread problem.
Even then, your main goal is just to get your money back and get the heck out of this situation.
Use your powers of persuasion- and really- good luck.

 

[DJHoliday]

Thanks for all of the support. This thread has done more than enough to convince me that I deserve a refund on the item in question. I have taken much of your advice to mind here. I'm very very good with paperwork. I feel kinda like the guys from Old School - "as dumb as they seem, they happen to be very good with paperwork" - that is the avenue I am taking at the moment. I will keep you all updated as it pans out. After a final chance for him to make it right, I will follow up with JVC. I also contacted my credit card company and can have my deposit refunded if I can make a case for consumer fraud to their fraud department. It is a small portion of the price, but maybe that will make him budge.

 

[DJHoliday]

You're not stupid. You're not irresponsible. Your situation is not even unusual. This is just another note in a sour chorus from jewelry "pros" who elect to use toxic over-grading to their advantage. Many people never realize it. You have ...The good news is that this topic (EGL specifically) is hot. TV, radio, print-news and consumer-protection blogs do indeed love stories with the potential to go viral. Yours has both potential and precedent. Especially with Valentine's Day approaching.

If you choose to help yourself - and others - by spreading awareness here are some suggestions:

1. Write a candid synopsis. Your original post has the relevant info and is composed objectively. No need to rant, just give the facts, but do include the jeweler's negative & profane comments.

2. Link these stories, showing that this is widespread.

From May: WSMV Nashville iTeam Undercover - A tale much like yours
http://www.wsmv.com/clip/10132107/what-happens-when-seeking-refund-at-popular-nashville-jeweler

From October: RapNet Bans EGL Reports From Trading Network, citing WSMV
http://www.jckonline.com/2014/09/09/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network

From December: WSMV claimed to have influenced industry changes (perhaps with good cause).
http://www.wsmv.com/story/27597843/i-team-reports-prompt-changes-in-diamond-industry

If you email consumer-protection media teams, don't be shy about asking for assistance.

3. The Rapaport Group is a diamond industry entity with tremendous scope. They're strongly against over-grading and recently issued this statement to all diamond sellers.

“Consumers must be warned not to trust misleading diamond grading reports and those that sell them. Suppliers must be held responsible for the quaity of the diamonds they sell. The diamond trade must prioritize the protection of consumers above profits.”

Full video here:
http://www.diamonds.net/HonestDiamonds/

The Rapaport Group has even invited contact on this topic.
I suggest you email honestgrading (at) diamonds.net with your story.

4. You can link to this thread you've started. Insiders, both consumer-enthusiasts and pros, have chimed in here saying you're not crazy. There are prior threads on this topic as well.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/polygon-also-bans-egl.206119/

5. If you feel you can make progress with the jeweler you're better armed to visit with him again now. Review the advice here and the links provided. Discuss them with him candidly. Explain that you cannot possibly feel good about this purchase and appeal to his integrity as a provider of diamond-jewelry to reverse the sale.

Be sure to keep us informed. While this is a one-and-done for you, many of us here are industry stakeholders.

Best wishes.

Thanks John. I will look thru all of this great information you have provided.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Thanks for all of the support. This thread has done more than enough to convince me that I deserve a refund on the item in question. I have taken much of your advice to mind here. I'm very very good with paperwork. I feel kinda like the guys from Old School - "as dumb as they seem, they happen to be very good with paperwork" - that is the avenue I am taking at the moment. I will keep you all updated as it pans out. After a final chance for him to make it right, I will follow up with JVC. I also contacted my credit card company and can have my deposit refunded if I can make a case for consumer fraud to their fraud department. It is a small portion of the price, but maybe that will make him budge.

I believe that you will prevail. The power of the pen is mighty! the keyboard is not to shabby either

Be persistent. We are all pulling for you.

 

[enbcfsobe]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I am disturbed that the JVC has not responded yet. I would think given all the negative publicity about EGL/Rap/grading that they would be on this. Alternatively, it would be disturbing if they were too busy with other complaints to get to yours yet!! The pros have offered great options for how to deal with this. Whichever options you pursue, best of luck. I would be interested in what the JVC says.

 

[DJHoliday]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I am disturbed that the JVC has not responded yet. I would think given all the negative publicity about EGL/Rap/grading that they would be on this. Alternatively, it would be disturbing if they were too busy with other complaints to get to yours yet!! The pros have offered great options for how to deal with this. Whichever options you pursue, best of luck. I would be interested in what the JVC says.

Yesterday, I called and left a message for Jo-Ann Sperano, Mediation Specialist/Paralegal - I was referred there by 311. I didn't receive a response yet so I emailed her today. In my email I asked if my situation is something that the JVC could handle. I haven't filed an official complaint yet. I have a sneaky feeling that she is out of the office.

 

[Rockdiamond]

DJ- I have a very strong feeling that whoever did this to you must have been reported to JVC many times already- I don't believe that they have the power to force his hand. Having said that, I'm not sure- so maybe......

Use the force Luke....seriously- try your own pressure, as best you can.

I truly wish I could walk in there with you.
We're upstairs from that unruly bazaar called 47th street.
Most of our clients that come up run past the hawkers- but I know for sure, in a few cases, people coming to see us get hooked in.
I don't care about about loosing a sale- it's really about what this blatant dishonesty does to the business as a whole.

 

[telephone89]

You might also have some luck posting on their social media/yelp/google review/etc sites with your experience.

Sometimes that will get their attention, because A LOT of folks read those before deciding where to shop. Once it's resolved you can always remove it, though I think it's best to just ammend them with the resolution so readers know how much hassle you had to go through to get what they agreed upon in the first place.

 

[MollyMalone]

HI, DJ I'm a former, longtime NYC prosecutor who'd like to offer a couple of observations, ask a couple of questions because, like everyone else here, I'd love to give you a helping hand.

* If you go to JVC's Consumer Complaint web page, you'll see that their "intake" is limited to written complaints. They don't actually start processing a complaint by way of a phone call, although when I was with the DA's Office, I heard from a couple of people with similar horrible experiences that their phone calls with JVC had been useful in terms of giving them a feel for what to expect from that mediation process, etc.
http://www.jvclegal.org/Consumers/index.php?categoryid=18

* The City of New York licenses pawnshops/pawnbrokers, but not jewelry stores or diamond vendors; the City's Dept of Consumer Affairs doesn't have any meaningful leverage over businesses they don't license, so that's why DCA referred you to JVC (and perhaps Small Claims Court as well?)

* Speaking of Small Claims Court, is the purchase price of the diamond $5000 or less? If so, Small Claims Court would have jurisdiction -- and if so, the fact that this guy is in the Diamond District is a plus for you because that means you'd be in Manhattan's (NY County's) Small Claims Court. Unlike a Small Claims Court in one of the "outer boroughs" where budget cuts have taken a heavier toll, Manhattan's Small Claims Court hasn't suffered the same degree of staffing cutbacks and reduced hours.
http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/smallclaims/startingcase.shtml
FYI the $20 filing fee charged by Small Claims Court is less than the $100 that JVC charges for their services. And honestly, this guy doesn't sound like someone who's going to agree to JVC mediation, so you'd likely be spending 100 bucks for essentially nothing. But maybe Ms. Sperano has a different take: perhaps they've had a successful mediation history with him or she can offer you some other info, e.g., how many complaints like yours has JVC received about this guy.

* Does this guy have his return-refund policy prominently posted by the counter and/or elsewhere in his booth/shop? I.e., not just printed on the receipts given you?

* When does the 30-day period expire, or have 30 days since purchase already passed?

 

[Gypsy]

DJ- I have a very strong feeling that whoever did this to you must have been reported to JVC many times already- I don't believe that they have the power to force his hand. Having said that, I'm not sure- so maybe......

Use the force Luke....seriously- try your own pressure, as best you can.

I truly wish I could walk in there with you.
We're upstairs from that unruly bazaar called 47th street.
Most of our clients that come up run past the hawkers- but I know for sure, in a few cases, people coming to see us get hooked in.
I don't care about about loosing a sale- it's really about what this blatant dishonesty does to the business as a whole.

RD I get that you are trying to provide a balanced perspective and trying to temper expectations. And I appreciate that.
But please go back and read through your threads in this post as a whole. Each time someone suggests a course of action, your shoot it down. You appear to be giving the message that it's hopeless and that there's not going to be any resolution and justice. And I am sure that is not what you intended. Still, it is the impression you are giving, regardless of intent.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Perhaps choose an appraiser under mutual agreement - give him a list and he can choose one?

The problem here is your stone was graded under GIA standards and it came with an EGL-USA cert. It is pretty normal that EGL-USA is 1 or 2 grades higher than GIA. So I actually don't think you were cheated at all assuming you paid EGL-USA prices.

My stone was appraised under a certain set of standards and was priced against stones in the marketplace with similar characteristics that were also graded under a comparable set of standards. It came up substantially overpriced even under this scenario. Regardless of whether EGL says it is an H-I, if it is a GIA K, it is worth GIA K.

If I am understanding you correctly, you paid the price of a GIA H-I stone for an EGL-USA H-I stone. Is it possible for you to share the EGL-USA report and the price you paid? Not that this will help resolve your problem but I am simply curious at how this vendor works and prices.

 

[DJHoliday]

HI, DJ I'm a former, longtime NYC prosecutor who'd like to offer a couple of observations, ask a couple of questions because, like everyone else here, I'd love to give you a helping hand.

* If you go to JVC's Consumer Complaint web page, you'll see that their "intake" is limited to written complaints. They don't actually start processing a complaint by way of a phone call, although when I was with the DA's Office, I heard from a couple of people with similar horrible experiences that their phone calls with JVC had been useful in terms of giving them a feel for what to expect from that mediation process, etc.
http://www.jvclegal.org/Consumers/index.php?categoryid=18

* The City of New York licenses pawnshops/pawnbrokers, but not jewelry stores or diamond vendors; the City's Dept of Consumer Affairs doesn't have any meaningful leverage over businesses they don't license, so that's why DCA referred you to JVC (and perhaps Small Claims Court as well?)

* Speaking of Small Claims Court, is the purchase price of the diamond $5000 or less? If so, Small Claims Court would have jurisdiction -- and if so, the fact that this guy is in the Diamond District is a plus for you because that means you'd be in Manhattan's (NY County's) Small Claims Court. Unlike a Small Claims Court in one of the "outer boroughs" where budget cuts have taken a heavier toll, Manhattan's Small Claims Court hasn't suffered the same degree of staffing cutbacks and reduced hours.
http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/smallclaims/startingcase.shtml
FYI the $20 filing fee charged by Small Claims Court is less than the $100 that JVC charges for their services. And honestly, this guy doesn't sound like someone who's going to agree to JVC mediation, so you'd likely be spending 100 bucks for essentially nothing. But maybe Ms. Sperano has a different take: perhaps they've had a successful mediation history with him or she can offer you some other info, e.g., how many complaints like yours has JVC received about this guy.

* Does this guy have his return-refund policy prominently posted by the counter and/or elsewhere in his booth/shop? I.e., not just printed on the receipts given you?

* When does the 30-day period expire, or have 30 days since purchase already passed?

Thanks for the post. I spent more than 5000$ so I assume small claims court won't work for me if that is the maximum. The 30 day money back guarantee is displayed prominently in his window... it is affixed to the glass window on the outside of his shop in decal. It is also on the receipt that I received. The 30 day period expires January 14.

 

[DJHoliday]

Perhaps choose an appraiser under mutual agreement - give him a list and he can choose one?

The problem here is your stone was graded under GIA standards and it came with an EGL-USA cert. It is pretty normal that EGL-USA is 1 or 2 grades higher than GIA. So I actually don't think you were cheated at all assuming you paid EGL-USA prices.

My stone was appraised under a certain set of standards and was priced against stones in the marketplace with similar characteristics that were also graded under a comparable set of standards. It came up substantially overpriced even under this scenario. Regardless of whether EGL says it is an H-I, if it is a GIA K, it is worth GIA K.

If I am understanding you correctly, you paid the price of a GIA H-I stone for an EGL-USA H-I stone. Is it possible for you to share the EGL-USA report and the price you paid? Not that this will help resolve your problem but I am simply curious at how this vendor works and prices.

I'd rather not specifically say the price nor carat at the moment.

My stone was

Round Brilliant

Depth 63.1
Table 55
Crown n/a
Pavilion n/a
Girdle Very Thin to Sl Thick
Faceted
Culet None

Finish Very Good
Symmetry Very Good

Clarity Grade VS2

Color Grade H-I

Fluorescence None




It appraised .02 carats less, 16.2 percent less value

Color K
Clarity VS2
Cut Grade 2A (International Fine Trade)

Depth 63.1
Table 55
Crown Height 14.4
Culet Pointed/None
Girdle Thin to slightly Thick Faceted

Polish Very Good
Symmetry Good
Fluorescence None

 

[MollyMalone]

* * *
Thanks for the post. I spent more than 5000$ so I assume small claims court won't work for me if that is the maximum. The 30 day money back guarantee is displayed prominently in his window... it is affixed to the glass window on the outside of his shop in decal. It is also on the receipt that I received. The 30 day period expires January 14.

* * * I'd rather not specifically say the price nor carat at the moment. * * *

Let me try another angle... is there more than a $5000 difference between your purchase price & David Wolf's appraised value?

 

[DJHoliday]

* * *
Thanks for the post. I spent more than 5000$ so I assume small claims court won't work for me if that is the maximum. The 30 day money back guarantee is displayed prominently in his window... it is affixed to the glass window on the outside of his shop in decal. It is also on the receipt that I received. The 30 day period expires January 14.

* * * I'd rather not specifically say the price nor carat at the moment. * * *

Let me try another angle... is there more than a $5000 difference between your purchase price & David Wolf's appraised value?

No. There is not more than a 5000$ difference between my purchase price and the appraisal. I kinda of see where you are going in terms of collecting the difference, but I'd rather not keep this diamond.

 

[MollyMalone]

No. There is not more than a 5000$ difference between my purchase price and the appraisal. I kinda of see where you are going in terms of collecting the difference, but I'd rather not keep this diamond.

I understand & I don't want you to be stuck with the stone either, if that can be avoided. So here's what I'm thinking:
* Go back to him before the 14th (not on the 14th) -- with a friend with a phone that can record your conversation with him, so there's independent physical evidence of your efforts to return the diamond in a timely fashion, so it won't end up being just your word against his.
If he's open tomorrow (Saturday), when there are typically more tourists in the Diamond District (and therefore, probably in his shop as well, especially since many Diamond District vendors are closed on Saturday), that would be best.

* Calmly, but in a loud enough voice that other prospective customers can hear, tell him you're returning the stone in exchange for the promised refund & then hand over to him a photocopy (that he can see and keep for himself) of Mr. Wolf's appraisal, along with a print-out of this page from the American Society of Appraiser's web site re Mr. Wolf's professional education, experience, credentials, and positions held
http://www.appraisers.org/memberbio?MemberID=10661
Assuming you initially get the same kind of reception he gave you the 1st time around, respond by saying you expected that he will indeed honor the refund policy that's so prominently displayed on his door... that the sign was a major reason you purchased the diamond from him because it signified a level of professional integrity that you trust he will live up to [try not to gag over those words] & you're happy to wait while he reviews Mr. Wolf's appraisal & his credentials, including the fact that he was on the Board of Governors of the American Society of Appraisers.

* At the outset, I would keep the conversation discrete by not "broadcasting" how much money is involved, so that he could save some face -- in the presence of those would-be customers -- by agreeing to refund the money without making others aware of exactly how much he ripped you off. Not that you're looking to do him any favors, but your goal is to get your $$$.

* Assuming he again refuses, see if he will refund an amount equal to the appraisal's Replacement Value (again, you may choose to not say, right then and there, precisely how much $$$ that is). If he's amenable to that -- and he does indeed deliver the dough in exchange for the stone, then you could sue him in Small Claims Court for the monetary difference between your purchase price & the appraised value that he refunded.

* OR you could start by simply mailing tomorrow (with tracking or signature receipt), e.g., the appraisal & ASA page, and whatever else you'd like him to see, so he has time to read and reflect before you show up on his doorstep again.