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Navy Veteran Beaten By Trump's Hidden Agents in Portland

Maja

Rough_Rock
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It's difficult for me, a believer in non-violence and the rule of law, to support the destructive actions of the rioters in Portland. I wear a mask to protect myself and others during Covid. I stay six feet apart from others, I don't go to bars or get pedicures or to church when it isn't allowed. I pay taxes to the County, the State, and the country (USA). Why are these rioters allowed to break rules without punishment? If I broke a law, I'd get punished-a traffic ticket for speeding or parking illegally, a fine or jail time for not paying taxes or spray painting the nearby courthouse. Why is it permissible for these rioters to continue their destruction for over 50 consecutive nights?
 

AGBF

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The First Amendment.allows them to continue their protest for as long as they wish. Unfortunately the alternative is a crackdown by an authoritarian leader drunk with power using extra-legal forces. Does this put them in violation of local ordinances on public assembly right now due to the coronavirus? I don't know. But if it does, the choice is people violating a law for public health versus the government violating the Constitution. Two kinds of law violation. Take your pick which one you want to support.


It's difficult for me, a believer in non-violence and the rule of law, to support the destructive actions of the rioters in Portland. I wear a mask to protect myself and others during Covid. I stay six feet apart from others, I don't go to bars or get pedicures or to church when it isn't allowed. I pay taxes to the County, the State, and the country (USA). Why are these rioters allowed to break rules without punishment? If I broke a law, I'd get punished-a traffic ticket for speeding or parking illegally, a fine or jail time for not paying taxes or spray painting the nearby courthouse. Why is it permissible for these rioters to continue their destruction for over 50 consecutive nights?


.
 
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AGBF

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Peaceful protests, not violent right?
You have to understand something here, Musia. The Constitution grants everyone the right to free speech and the right to free assembly. No one has the right to abridge these rights because Constitutional rights are the most basic and powerful rights in US law.

Sometimes people choose to break the law and to be arrested for non-violent protests. This is called civil disobedience. Martin Luther King and John Lewis, among many other civil rights leaders engaged in this. They knew they were breaking the laws, but they chose to break them and to take the consequences. Often when people did this they were simply killed and martyred. This is what happened to Scwerner, Chaney, and Goodwin who were brutally murdered and then buried near a dam in Mississippi. If two of them had not been white, this crime would probably never have been discovered. The two white men had each been shot once in the heart, but Mr. Chaney, a black man, had been brutally beaten and shot multiple times. According to an autopsy report, Chaney’s “jaw was shattered, the left shoulder and upper arm were reduced to a pulp; the right forearm was broken completely across at several points, and the skull bones were broken and pushed in toward the brain.” They were not recognized as heroes. Now, sometimes. people look at the non-violent protesters and say "OK. Those guys are OK, but the violent ones are bad."

Chaney, Schwerner, and Goodwin had come south to register voters. They were investigating the burning of a black church when they were killed.

Non-violent protesters are never protected by authoritarian regimes against which they protest.. They are always painted with a brush that makes them appear frightening and threatening.
 
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Musia

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@AGBF thank you for the explanation. What about peaceful assemblies at churches for practicing religion? Why are they prohibited now?
 

OreoRosies86

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@AGBF thank you for the explanation. What about peaceful assemblies at churches for practicing religion? Why are they prohibited now?
Churches here are open. But I’m guessing it has something to do with medical experts asking people not to crowd in enclosed indoor spaces, for public safety so we can get the country back on track economically.
 

Musia

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Sometimes people choose to break the law and to be arrested for non-violent protests. This is called civil disobedience.
So civil disobedience is also considered to be a non-violent protest. I will post 2 videos. On the first video people are peaceful, but they definitely are breaking the order not to be gathering in big numbers during the pandemic. No social distancing and many are without masks. And they are not washing their hands. I think it is an example of civil disobedience. I am not against such gatherings. They are noisy and many believe they allow virus to spread but I am not totally opposing them. But I think churchgoers should be allowed to have services too.

On the second video people are definitely violent, they are ruining federal property.
I am against this kind of domestic terrorism.
 

OreoRosies86

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Facebook “news” should be banned.
 

Dancing Fire

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You have to understand something here, Musia. The Constitution grants everyone the right to free speech and the right to free assembly. No one has the right to abridge these rights because Constitutional rights are the most basic and powerful rights in US law.
Does the Constitution also grants the right to destroy federal properties and burning down cities? :read:
 

AGBF

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@AGBF thank you for the explanation. What about peaceful assemblies at churches for practicing religion? Why are they prohibited now?
Hi, @Musia,

In the United States a person has the right to practice any religion or no religion. Therefore a group of worshippers has the right to assemble and worship peacefully. I can only assume that if you found a place where worship in a group has been temporarily forbidden that it is temporarily restricted due to the coronavirus. The coronavirus has caused some municipalities to limit the number of people who gather in a group due to public health concerns.

The Pope did not say Mass on Easter in public this year.Since he is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, this was obviously his own decision. It was made because of the coronavirus which was rampant in Italy at Easter time. He did not want to cause more spread of the virus.

Many churches have voluntarily opted to do services virtually to keep their congregations healthy. A few congregations have protested restrictions placed on them. (There have also been some outbreaks of covid19 at churches where people gathered imprudently.)

As @OreoRosies86 posted, some geographical area where the virus is not bad, have re-opened churches carefully. All churches, mosques, and synagogues will be re-opened once the public health danger of large group assemblies has passed.
 
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AGBF

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Does the Constitution also grants the right to destroy federal properties and burning down cities? :read:

You have not been doing your homework. You were supposed to be studying civics. Your assignment for today is to look up this question yourself. Do not keep expecting the other students to do your work for you.

Deb, teacher
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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So civil disobedience is also considered to be a non-violent protest. I will post 2 videos. On the first video people are peaceful, but they definitely are breaking the order not to be gathering in big numbers during the pandemic. No social distancing and many are without masks. And they are not washing their hands. I think it is an example of civil disobedience.

On the second video people are definitely violent, they are ruining federal property.
I understand your position, Musia.
 

Dancing Fire

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You have not been doing your homework. You were supposed to be studying civics. Your assignment for today is to look up this question yourself. Do not keep expecting the other students to do your work for you.

Deb, teacher
Deb, Your my constitutional law professor but you can't answer a simple Q?

Does the Constitution grant the right to destroy federal properties?
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Deb, Your my constitutional law professor but you can't answer a simple Q?

Does the Constitution grant the right to destroy federal properties?
I am disappointed in you, Dancing Fire. Your English is very good. I told you to go look up the answer yourself. You are in danger of getting an "unsatisfactory" in "ability to work independently".

Deb
 

seaurchin

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Ugh, I've GOT to stay off political threads. Like many these days I suppose, I just feel sick about what's happened to our country and fear what else may occur. Sorry to anyone I've been rude to.
 

Dancing Fire

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I am disappointed in you, Dancing Fire. Your English is very good. I told you to go look up the answer yourself. You are in danger of getting an "unsatisfactory" in "ability to work independently".

Deb
Deb, I have done my homework... :praise: The Constitution stated the following... any city run by a Dem. mayor does have the right to burn it into the ground.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Deb, I have done my homework... :praise: The Constitution stated the following... any city run by a Dem. mayor does have the right to burn it into the ground.
And there you have it. The Constitution as interpreted by Bill Barr.
 

Dancing Fire

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AGBF

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Is it more peaceful now that the Oregon state police are in charge?

Your problem is that you do not understand the issue.

The issue is not who can best repress the American people, Dancing Fire. If the Founding Fathers had set out to launch a new country with the most repressive policing, the Constitution would look quite different. As it is, with the tenth and fourth amendments, federal forces cannot run roughshod over everyone in their path and haul them into vans without probable cause.
 

Karl_K

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@AGBF thank you for the explanation. What about peaceful assemblies at churches for practicing religion? Why are they prohibited now?
Because Roberts the traitor and the usual 4 evil ones did a huge number 2 on the constitution.
Don't get me wrong those that dont follow the guidelines are idiots.
But to give the government the right to regulate worship is one of the greatest acts of disrespect to peoples rights that the court has ever done.
It actualy pushed more people over the edge to give the goverment the double bird and do idiotic things.
So it did way more harm than good.
 
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AGBF

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Because Roberts the traitor and the usual 4 evil ones did a huge number 2 on the constitution.
Don't get me wrong those that dont follow the guidelines are idiots.
But to give the government the right to regulate worship is one of the greatest acts of disrespect to peoples rights that the court has ever done.
It actualy pushed more people over the edge to give the goverment the double bird and do idiotic things.
So it did way more harm than good.
I strongly believe in freedom of religion, but as you point out above, Karl, public health also matters.
 

House Cat

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All of these good Christian people should have it within themselves to do the right thing. Instead of contracting the virus and spreading it to the unsuspecting innocents, they should stay home and keep others safe. This is everyone’s obligation.
 

Dancing Fire

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I strongly believe in freedom of religion, but as you point out above, Karl, public health also matters.
I guess not when it comes to rioting. You can riot on the street but you can't attend church.
 

partgypsy

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Everyone's having to sacrifice. Many people have lost their jobs, livelihoods, businesses. We do not have control of covid in this country, it is out of control. While some effects were avoidable, that it is this out of control, the level of loss of lives, loss of livelihoods we are experiencing and will continue to experience WAS preventable. For those who are suffering, I understand. My father passed away this spring. From the 911 call it took 40 min for him to be admitted to the hospital, because of the covid craziness. It could have made the difference to save him. I couldn't even attend my own father's funeral. No Trump, the virus did not just "go away" in April. No, it was stupid to disband the pandemic task force. No you shouldnt talk over, not listen to, contradict your own health officials. You shouldn't be having states bidding against each other to get critically needed supplies. People are angry at the protestors. I think that anger is misplaced. America is experiencing the equivalent of 9-11, every 3 days, under Trump. We are living in scary times and our own President doesn't gaf.
 
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Karl_K

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I guess not when it comes to rioting. You can riot on the street but you can't attend church.
or gamble.
Which the suit was mainly about casinos could have 1000s churches 50.
But the ruling was a blanket permission to shred the constitution.
 

partgypsy

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Karl I really have to say I find something very concerning that you call chief Roberts a traitor (based on disagreeing with his ruling, which happened to be a majority opinion). It is a very serious accusation that as you know carries the death penalty. I think you need to consider what you are saying. I don't think you are a nutcase but there are nutcases that feed off this level of hate speech.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I guess not when it comes to rioting. You can riot on the street but you can't attend church.
That is silly. No one has a legal right to "riot" in the street. The word is not used in the Constitution. One can assemble in the street. One can protest in the street. One has free speech in the street. But one cannot destroy property or harm other people without being subject to arrest. (Unless one is Donald Trump and Bill Barr crossing Lafayette Park for a photo op and wanting to clear it of peaceful American protesters and peaceful Australian journalists, of course. Then one can harm other people in the street and not fear arrest.)
 
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