Nail Salon jealously lol

[Independent Gal]

It doesn't always have to be one or the other! If you shop smart, you can have gorgeous things and be sensible about saving money too.

I LOVE beautiful clothes and I LOVE a glamorous lifestyle, but I put saving first. So, I buy my Barney's clothes at the Barney's outlet when they're on clearance, or I shop at Century 21 in New York. That way, I get designer clothes at something not THAT much more than GAP prices (if you do it right). And when I want that Zagat 28 meal, I check for things like Monday night tasting menus or other 'deals'. I bought my furniture and rugs second hand.

You can have beautiful things AND be responsible if you know how to take advantage of bargains. Also, you can save so much by simply not wasting money. Do you really need all those features on your phone, e.g.? Can you take public transport? Why not get the brussels sprouts instead of the asparagus if they're on sale?

So, here I am, somewhere around the three decade mark, with 10 years of higher education (OK, granted I had scholarships for grad school, and so could invest most of the year's worht of salary I had earned and saved between undergrad and grad school), no debt, equity in a condo, a healthy retirement fund, 2 months salary worth of cushion in my savings account (I'm working on 6!), and let me tell you my salary is NOWHERE NEAR 6 figures.

Of course, I don't have a nice big diamond...

... but someday I will. And I'll have security too!

 

[Pandora II]

Wow, I should move to the US looking at your house prices!

FI and I have a tiny 2 bedroom apartment (40 square metres total) on the first floor of a council estate where 90% of the residents are on welfare and get their housing for free. Another apartment in the same block has just gone on the market for £275k GBP. We both earn good salaries (but less than 6 figures GBP) and this was all we can really afford. My mother was horrified when she first saw where I lived - it's the kind of place she used to threaten we'd end up in if we didn't work hard at school and go to university!

In the UK now the banks lend 5x both gross salaries for mortgages. It's truly frightening.

We are both pretty frugal - I buy nearly all my clothes on ebay as I couldn't dress the way I do if I had to buy from the actual stores, neither of us drink or smoke, we only use public transport and we don't go out much. We also have private pension schemes and savings accounts etc. If something bad happens to interest rates, or the markets or either of us were unemployed we will survive as we have made sure we are spending within our means and have a cushion for the unexpected.

But so many people here are living maxed out on credit. One in 3 mortgages is now interest only - so in 25 years time they have nothing and owe the bank a big lump sum. Most of my younger friends are borrowing on one card to pay another - and yet can't say no to expensive clothes, cars, meals out etc

I see young kids with the latest ipod, mobile phone and TV's in their bedrooms. Bizarre!

I am a local councillor in London and had a woman call me last week who has 7 kids and is living in an apartment the same size as mine. She expects me to just give her another bigger house. I explained we have 11,000 people on the housing waiting list in the area and it was unlikely she'd find anything. What I really wanted to say was:

If you kept 7 dogs in a 2 bed apartment, the RSPCA (animal charity) would take you to court for cruelty, take them off you, fine you and ban you from keeping them. What makes you think that the taxpayer should pay for you to have 7 children and a big house when they can barely afford their rent or mortgage for something smaller themselves and don't feel they can afford to have kids.

The welfare culture here has gone nuts - and with it has come this huge sense of "entitlement". I had one 19 year old tell me that the council should pay for everyone to have plasma screen TV's because it wasn't fair that rich people could have one and he couldn't.

It worries me where we are heading...

 

[peridot83]

Hello all again!

First I apologize, I am ediiting this post so I have the names of the people I respond to, so y'all don't have to read my whole large rant, but its so difficult! How do y'all keep track? Open up two windows?

DecoDelighted: My first point wasn't that it was the smartest thing or the best thing to spend $6,000 on a ring. My only point was that if you are earning $150,000 a year, and spend $6,000 on a diamond in a upper middle class suburb in a metropolitan area, you are no different than the generation before you that was earning $70,000 a year and spending $3,000 on a diamond (I.e getting a .5-.7 carat ring). So that this idea, that our generation is so much different that generation before us is slightly unfounded. When an older person looks aroudn and sees a young people with bigger rings around them, its because they have a lot more income then the older generation around them. I'm saying from an objective point of view, the new flashy materialism that comes into an other wise middle class neighborhood, is apparent because the new flashy people earn a TON of money, eye boggling top 5% of the income bracket money and yet are living in a 2 bedroom house next to someone who bought a house for $100,000 dollars.

Neatfreak, Travellingal: My above point, wasn't whether the above spending philosophy was right or wrong. It was just to say i don't think my generation is more overly materialistic than previous generations, they are the same. Whether "same" is good or bad is up for debate

Second, It will be 7 years before I can afford a mortgage, and 30 years before I pay off a home (obviously i'm hoping that my partner will be in a financial position to help me out, I just use "I" because right now I only know my own finances). This is a fact, because I refuse, and personally believe its dangerous, to over leverage yourself on a yearly basis. That means that I refuse to spend more than 30% of income on mortgage (others are free to disagree). I will have undergraduate and graduate school debt, that will be over 150,000 that I have to pay off at the same time. As most people know, when you are faced with 40 years of debt (student loans + mortgage) you have to prioritize by the interest rate.

Neatfreak: Now what I'm getting from others at the board, feel free to tell me if i'm wrong, that if I save more, I can have a bigger downpayment for a bigger house. The problem is, I have put a 30% income ceiling on how much I'm willing to spend on a mortgage. This means I don't WANT a bigger home because I can't afford the mortgage even if I could swing a bigger downpayment.

Cehrabehra:Another suggestion was that every month closer to a home is somehow better. I was wondering if someone could explain to me the reasoning behind this. A home is going to cost substantially more to me than renting, as in over 2 times more. I think a lot of my peers forget sometimes, but the housing market does go in cycles, I'm not looking for a turnaround investment in this home (i mean if that happens and we get crazy home prices again in the future...great..but i'm not counting on it). So why own a home? when I could spend substantially less renting (and be investing all that money i.e. 2,000 a month, into retirement, savings etc. which are more liquid and easier accessed if something goes wrong)?

1. Stability (don't have to deal with landlords, raising rents etc.)
2. A backyard and no upstairs/downstairs neighbors so that my future kids can run around etc, also condos in metropolitan areas do not necessarliy correlate to good public schools
3. Future retirement, because it has been in the past a large, stable money investment but again...i'm not expecting more than a 7% return per year in all my investments after taxes (magic # one of my professors used).

6 months isn't going to change the above. 6 months changes nothing. I am not in a better short term financial position by owning a home, I'm actually in a WORSE position short term (less liquidity... takes a rise in housing prices before you make back the costs of moving, setting up the home, real estate agent, etc.). Also, I doubt we'll be in such a crazy housing market that 6 months will make a significant (i.e. more than 10,000, 20,000 on the total value of the home) increase. Even if it is that crazy, I want to find the best mortgage rate, get rid of my lease etc. and 6 months may not be enough time to react even if I had the downpayment. The fact is a home is a long range good investment for a family. Long range investments are not affected by jumping in 6 months earlier or later.

Third, Condos used to be a good investment a few years ago, the problem is right now there's a glut of overpriced condos that haven't dropped in price yet. (almost all the apartment buldings in West LA have been converted to condos, and they're buidling a bunch of high rise condo buildings in downtown LA). All of my fellow grad students are watching closely in hopes the drop will happen and we'll enter the market (like what happened in San Diego). It hasn't happened yet though, and I don't want to be ownign a condo when the drop happens because a condo for me, would be a turnaround investment, I don't earn enough money to own 2 properties in CA, and a condo doesn't provide the backyard no upstairs/downstairs aspect of a home that I really like.

Independant Gal, Pandora II: Fourth, I understand the idea that you save save save. Basically don't get an engagement ring for $6,000 when you don't have your downpayment. Don't spend $6,000 when you have school debt, don't spend $6,000 when you have a mortgage to pay and kids to feed. The idea is, after you've saved all this money, to be debt free, you'll be in a secure financial position and THEN you can spend on yourself. (Remember, the engagement ring worked out to $100 less saved a month, so we're talking really believing every penny counts). So i'm 23 now, I buy a home when I'm 30, I finish paying off that home when I'm 60 and then I get a ring. (Ok let say I REALLY save maybe i'll have it paid off by 55 instead!).

Now this is my first subjective point that everyone can disagree with, while I still am going to save very responsibly, to deny me something that would cost me $100 a month, to when I'm 60 makes no sense to me. Why? I mean to be frank a lot of people I have known have died before 60, or are not in a physical/mental position to appreciate a ring at 60. To be on such a savings road, such a self-denial road, to the point where you don't have any frivolous spending (no clothing beyond what you can get at discout outlet stores, no travelling, no entertainment budget (tv, movies, plays, concerts), no eating out) as advocated on this board so I can own my home 5 years sooner, doesn't jive for me. Again the above is based on the assumption that $100 of spending a month on a ring is frivolous.

I don't think owning my home outright at 55 instead of 60 will change my life or financial position in any significant way. However, travelling around the world, seeing movies, plays, concerts, dressing up and eating out, are all experiences that bring joy to my life, and makes the idea of grinding out 80 hour weeks bearable.

I admire all of you who are on such a savings path. For me it's just different, I just have seen so many of my relatives that hold retirement as a pipe dream...as in that's when I finally get to do all the things I want, right now I don't like my job, I don't like my lifestyle, but oh boy that retirement...and some have been so so burned. Housing investments or stock investments didn't turn out the way the liked, they got a debilitating illness, and now they can't do all the things they wished they had. I don't want to be in such a position.

I also understand that I don't have to have kids, and that if I do have kids, who says they need a backyard of all things? So I know this is just a goal I aspire to.

I welcome your points of view on the last point. As to the other points, if I'm making some bad financial assumptions please jump in and correct me .

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 4/24/2007 2:06:32 PM
Author: peridot83
My only point was that if you are earning $150,000 a year, and spend $6,000 on a diamond in a upper middle class suburb in a metropolitan area, you are no different than the generation before you that was earning $70,000 a year and spending $3,000 on a diamond (I.e getting a .5-.7 carat ring). So that this idea, that our generation is so much different that generation before us is slightly unfounded.

I honestly don''t think there''s anyone here on Pricescope that would begrudge someone making $150,000 a year a 6K e-ring.

What we''re seeing more & more of, however -- is people earning 0.0 dollars (still in school - getting into "good" debt" blah blah) coveting TWO CARAT +++ rings. $25,000 - $30,000 rings. Folks that haven''t even been out in the "real" world yet to know that salarys rarely double overnight -- that there are crazy expenses you haven''t even heard of yet (water?? pet insurence?? garbage removal??) People who think ALL interest rates are gonna be 3% & not the 30% they can rise to w/ a few missed payments. That "bling" is a representation of their "value" in the romantic marketplace - ala music video babes & celebutantes.

And THAT *is* different than previous generations.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/24/2007 2:20:08 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 4/24/2007 2:06:32 PM

Author: peridot83

My only point was that if you are earning $150,000 a year, and spend $6,000 on a diamond in a upper middle class suburb in a metropolitan area, you are no different than the generation before you that was earning $70,000 a year and spending $3,000 on a diamond (I.e getting a .5-.7 carat ring). So that this idea, that our generation is so much different that generation before us is slightly unfounded.

I honestly don't think there's anyone here on Pricescope that would begrudge someone making $150,000 a year a 6K e-ring.


What we're seeing more & more of, however -- is people earning 0.0 dollars (still in school - getting into 'good' debt' blah blah) coveting TWO CARAT +++ rings. $25,000 - $30,000 rings. Folks that haven't even been out in the 'real' world yet to know that salarys rarely double overnight -- that there are crazy expenses you haven't even heard of yet (water?? pet insurence?? garbage removal??) People who think ALL interest rates are gonna be 3% & not the 30% they can rise to w/ a few missed payments. That 'bling' is a representation of their 'value' in the romantic marketplace - ala music video babes & celebutantes.


And THAT *is* different than previous generations.

Are we basing this solely on the behavior of young PS members? If not, then that's fine. But if so, if I could be so bold, I'd imagine that many of the "younger" people that venture onto PS are of the more "frivolous" nature (emphasis on the "more" part of that statement). The vast majority of my friends/acquaintances (all current undergrad and graduate students, or recent graduates/young professionals) are VERY frugal with their money and wouldn't dream of overspending on luxury items--and, therefore, don't find themselves visiting diamond-consumer forums (such as PS). And I live in LA

Obviously, we wouldn't say that PS members overall represent the general population as far as luxury item spending habits. So we shouldn't say that the younger PS members represent the younger population as far as luxury item spending habits.


Again, I have to emphasize that I intend absolutely no disrespect directed toward the young PS crowd, since I myself am a member of that group. Simply that, for better or worse, we are on this forum because diamonds happen to be on our priority list for spending. Not necessarily at the top of our list, but they are on there somewhere.

What does that say about the general population of young people in this country? Nothing. Does all that mean that this generation is not different than the last? No... but it does mean that we shouldn't assume that it is different based upon MTV, tabloid magazines and the people who frequent diamond forums

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Can we please discontinue this conversation? As a 20-something PS user I'm beginning to get really offended by the generalizations that are being thrown around about me and my generation.

I joined this forum for research purposes and not *just* so I can obsess over luxury items.

Some people might want to spend their money on diamonds and others on balenciaga bags. Who are we to judge?

Some of the posters on this thread need to get off of their self-righteous pedestals.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 4/24/2007 2:35:46 PM
Author: musey
What does that say about the general population of young people in this country? Nothing. Does all that mean that this generation is not different than the last? No... but it does mean that we shouldn''t assume that it is different based upon MTV, tabloid magazines and the people who frequent diamond forums

You have good points. I''ll admit that my "take" on the younger generation-as-entitled is influenced by the media: SUPER SWEET SIXTEEN, LAGUNA BEACH, all those spoiled-kids-of-celebs shows ... and then what I see on the bling forum kinda backs that up.... HOWEVER - I do see plenty of hard working, super savvy chicks & dudes WAY further ahead of the game than I was at *their* age. As much as my heart is warmed by seeing the earnest thrifty search for an e-ring from a young man studying up on the subject to make sure he maximizes his $ ... my stomach goes *KATHUMP* when the bigger-better-bug bites, say, multiple times before walking down the aisle. Is this still about *rings* or something deeper?

 

[Independent Gal]

I suspect age has little to do with how people manage their money. Some are savers. Some are spenders. It's partly a matter of temperament. And it's partly a matter of how one was raised. A bit of both. I have one brother who is in his early 20's and a saver like me. I have other siblings who are older who are spenders. Who knows why we ended up as we did?

Peridot: I assure you, I save save save, but I enjoy every day and am not 'waiting for retirement' to start living well. I don't 'save every penny'. I pay my taxes, bills, etc. I pay my mortgage. I pay my 10% into my savings account and my employer takes a chunk and puts it in my IRA. I give my x% to charity. Those are my responsibilities. Thereafter, what's left is ALL for spending, and I DO spend it. I just don't waste it. I wear designer clothes, I travel abroad at least twice a year, my condo is very swankily decorated (even if the stuff is second hand!), I go out to eat twice a week. I am living VERY well. I just do it very carefully so that I manage to live 'above my means' while living 'within my means'.

If you fulfill all your responsibilities, then put $100 aside from your 'discretionary' spending money to buy a ring, I say why not? The only thing that's worrying is if that $100 a month is coming out of money that should be going toward responsibilities. AT least, that's how I see it. But different strokes for different folks!

I admit that the year between college and grad school I saved EVERY penny and lived on just about nothing. But I was USED to living on nothing at that point, and I didn't know if I'd get funding for grad school, so it made sense to keep on with that lifestyle even though I was earning well. Best choice I ever made, since that money was well invested and quietly grew into my downpayment while I did my Ph.D.. For one year of relative hardship in my early 20's? SO WORTH IT!

I LOVE BEING A HOMEOWNER. And I just realized, today is exactly one year since I bought my home. Happy homeowner-birthday to me!

 

[musey]

Date: 4/24/2007 2:45:31 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Can we please discontinue this conversation? As a 20-something PS user I'm beginning to get really offended by the generalizations that are being thrown around about me and my generation.


I joined this forum for research purposes and not *just* so I can obsess over luxury items.


Some people might want to spend their money on diamonds and others on balenciaga bags. Who are we to judge?


Some of the posters on this thread need to get off of their self-righteous pedestals.

I hope I'm not among those that offended you... I realized re-reading my post that I, too, was generalizing about our generation (primarily PS member of our generation), but my main point (which I always have trouble focusing on!) was that we can't apply those generalizations to everyone. What may seem to be true about a group is just what we notice about that group. I didn't mean to come of as self-righteous at all!


ETA: I think that part of where the problem is coming from is that people tried to remove the negative focus from the OP by spreading it out to be more about "people who think like this" which led to "people your age who think like this" which led to simply "people your age." Even when most of the posts are still motivated by the OP, to the reader, it seems to be more directed at everyone that is her age.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

No I was just replying to the general thread, not yours in particular.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/24/2007 2:06:32 PM
Author: peridot83
Neatfreak, Travellingal: My above point, wasn''t whether the above spending philosophy was right or wrong. It was just to say i don''t think my generation is more overly materialistic than previous generations, they are the same. Whether ''same'' is good or bad is up for debate

Uh, I think that was the point I was trying to make in my roundabout post....

 

[KimberlyH]

I''ve been following this thread silently, as I find the whole conversation quite interesting. I am the upper end of the "me" generation and a firm believer that the stereotype exists for a reason, the OP provided a perfect example of that. Does this mean that all people of my generation are frivolous and irresponsible with their finances? Absolutely not. But we are, on the whole, a generation who has never understood what it is to need: we have never been rationed (even though we''ve lived in times of war), experienced economic depression, etc. This provides us with a different perspective than that of previous generations and a different concept of luxury vs. necessity (cell phones come to mind).

I''m not sure why anyone would find this discussion offensive. If what''s been said doesn''t apply to you even though you''re a member of this generation, more power to you. If it does, and you''re satisfied with the way you choose to live your life, more power to you.

 

[Nicrez]

My $1.50:

No good change can come without criticism. We can't change a generation if we deny there is any problem. Change starts with one individual at a time.

To say that we are not a debtor nation, progressively getting worse with each generation is also turning a blind eye. (for stats, please refer to statistics done on national debt avaerages over a period of almost 100 years and calcuated on percentage of equity versus spendable income) This post is not about that, but has turned into that based on the words of Mrssoontobealfonzo, or at least how she worded it. I think her words struck a chord in people who saw it as a growing trend on the thread and perhaps in life. We are a microcosm of the world here, from all walks and all ways. And this site, although centered on jewelry is very definately a subset of the world in the US. People are spending more on diamond rings, and luxury goods, by getting into debt. We see it all the time, here and every where else.

The generation that is more effected than the 20 somethings on this board, are the teens and tweens out there, but since they don't post very often, I would say that the youngest group to be referred to are the ones who are are able to afford rings and are in the engagement stages. Is it a personal attack? No. But as with any generational gap there are gaps of wisdom that come only from living the life that hasn't come yet. Many of the "older" posters see first hand (possibly from their own past debts) what the effects are, and are suprised at the value and social necessity and attention that luxury goods are getting in comparison to their day. Not uncommon... No one prefaced it with, "Well, in MY day..." But you get the point.

They are right, and it can not be refuted. Society is more materialistic than ever. Starting in the 1920 with the birth of credit, we have become a consumer nation. And perhaps we always will be, but if someone doesn't point out that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes, people will just get numb to it, and although happy, we will indefinately change the fabric of our society to embrace debt and value material goods, one generation at a time for the sake of being "nice" or being a "pal". But then again, that's just my take on the horse that has already been beaten to death, buried and then resurrected and beaten again.

 

[Mara]

HH with all due respect, i don't think that anyone has made really offensive comments here and there doesn't seem to be over-generalizing...whenever someone, including myself says 'it seems like this generation is...' we also say that we realize it's not everyone in that generation doing that, only that things definitely seem to be changing. so i don't know why you personally would be offended, you do not equal your entire generation.

and also, you may have come to PS to do research on a ring, but there are other forums here outside of diamond research, where people do discuss things out of the research realm, so, respectfully, if you do not like what you are reading, just don't read it and don't participate. but people will talk about what they want to talk about as long as it's within the range of the PS rules.

i personally think this discussion is pretty interesting, because i have 2 younger sisters where i do see one with a sense of entitlement, it's 'why shouldn't i' rather than 'why should i' and the other one who is only 16 is way more priveleged than i was at her age (coach purses at age 12 whereas i never had anything like that til i bought it for myself at age oh...25?)...and yet she seems to be really grounded still. it's interesting to me to watch because we were all raised by the same parents and family...for the most part. though, i didn't have an older sister when i was my youngest sister's age, so i wonder if some of it is elements of influence by other older family members on my youngest vs the middle who didn't really have that and then there is me as the oldest...my mom was not in the same 'social tier' she is now back when i was young and so maybe i was raised differently with a bit more practicality (though that is not how anyone would describe me!). to me overall the whole thing is just intriguing.

personally, i could care less how other people spend THEIR money. it's theirs. they can do whatever they want with it.

 

[scarlet16]

Date: 4/24/2007 4:04:45 PM
Author: KimberlyH
I''ve been following this thread silently, as I find the whole conversation quite interesting. I am the upper end of the ''me'' generation and a firm believer that the stereotype exists for a reason, the OP provided a perfect example of that. Does this mean that all people of my generation are frivolous and irresponsible with their finances? Absolutely not. But we are, on the whole, a generation who has never understood what it is to need: we have never been rationed (even though we''ve lived in times of war),
experienced economic depression, etc. This provides us with a different perspective than that of previous generations and a different concept of luxury vs. necessity (cell phones come to mind).


I''m not sure why anyone would find this discussion offensive. If what''s been said doesn''t apply to you even though you''re a member of this generation, more power to you. If it does, and you''re satisfied with the way you choose to live your life, more power to you.

I was trying to figure out how to respond to the thread tactfully. But Kimberly has done it for me. There is at least some truth in stereotypes, for where else would they have come from. I believe that is even more true in this case. I''m in my mid-20s so I feel like I have standing to voice this opinion. Not everyone in my generation is wasteful, and frivolous but, on the whole, I have found my counterparts (ranging from low 20s to low 30s) to feel some distorted sense of entitlement. But man, I have to say it really really pisses me off when I hear the bitching and complaining about their "difficult lives."

Maybe its because I matured earlier, or maybe its because of how my parents raised me, but I''m proud to say that in the years I''ve been on my own I paid for law school by working full time, that I own a substantial stock portfolio, that I have more saved away for retirement than most 50 year olds, and I have no credit card debt. Is my less than 1 ct ring smaller than most people around me, yes. Am I proud of it, yes. Does it mean my fiance loves me any less, absolutely not. Do I have tons of clothes, and shoes and bags to show off, no. But I''d have to honestly say I''m far better off than most people my age and I know for a fact its because I don''t ascribe to the entitlement attitude of most. People need to get off their tushes and earn the right to luxury.

Now, that''s not to say down the line when I can have an apartment (and yes, NYC prices are absolutely insane) and have set money aside for my kids'' educations, then I''d buy myself a nice 2 ct. ring.

And like Kim said, I can''t see why someone would be offended by this thread. Unless you feel ashamed by what you''re reading...

 

[partgypsy]

Not to offend anyone, but I agree that we live in a materialistic society. It''s not just the youth, but probably most obvious in them. My 15 year old nephew has an ipod, cell phone, the latest video game station, and cable tv in his room. He is soon going to get a (used) acura. And he still complains to my brother about all the stuff his friends have that he doesn''t have. I can''t give him anything for Christmas or birthday anymore because everything he wants is too expensive (like $200 ipods). To preface this I should mention that we have 1 car for a 4 person family, do not use cell phones or cable tv. Can you tell I am dismayed and disconcerted by this development? I could rail about how young folks don''t know the value of money (you need to save that money for doctor''s bills, gosh darn it) but I would sound like a curmudgen. Where''s Dancing fire when you need him?

 

[DiamondSmitten]

All the new homeowners or new homeowners to be I know are going FHA.... Reasonable rates (I beleive between 6.5 and 6.8 on any given day) and only require 3% down payment. Is this only done in NJ? I can't imagine renting until I had 80000-150000 dollars for a downpayment like many people here are mentioning. Rent in NJ alone makes it darn near impossible to save ANYTHING let alone that amount. To get into a small house for about 200,000 we are looking at a 6000 down payment. Each 1000 more in the down payment changes the monthly mortgage a wopping 7 bucks. So to us, using 6000 of our 20,000 in savings for the downpayment and using the rest to make the home something we love makes sence, it "works" for us. Saving an extra 98 bucks a month versus makes the "house a home" isn't worth it. People can shame us for it, but I doubt people whose lives come to unexpected endings earl in life think just before they die "Damn sure am glad I saved 98 bucks a month and didn't enjoy my life instead of getting the XX carat ring, or traveling for a bit or vacationing with loved ones. If the people buying 750,000 dollar homes used FHA and put down 25,000..... owning a home doesn't have to be 7-10 years away. The mortgage will be more.... sure but you will earn equity in that home for 7-10 years ntm all the other bonuses of owning.


ETA.... I have NO idea why the first half of my rant posted twice, please disregard this paragraph duplicating below

 

[DiamondSmitten]

All the new homeowners or new homeowners to be I know are going FHA.... Reasonable rates (I beleive between 6.5 and 6.8 on any given day) and only require 3% down payment. Is this only done in NJ? I can''t imagine renting until I had 80000-150000 dollars for a downpayment like many people here are mentioning. Rent in NJ alone makes it darn near impossible to save ANYTHING let alone that amount. To get into a small house for about 200,000 we are looking at a 6000 down payment. Each 1000 more in the down payment changes the monthly mortgage a wopping 7 bucks. So to us, using 6000 of our 20,000 in savings for the downpayment and using the rest to make the home something we love makes sence, it "works" for us. Saving an extra 98 bucks a month versus makes the "house a home" isn''t worth it. People can shame us for it, but I doubt people whose lives come to unexpected endings earl in life think just before they die "Damn sure am glad I saved 98 bucks a month and didn''t enjoy my life instead of getting the XX carat ring, or traveling for a bit or vacationing with loved ones. If the people buying 750,000 dollar homes used FHA and put down 25,000..... owning a home doesn''t have to be 7-10 years away. The mortgage will be more.... sure but you will earn equity in that home for 7-10 years ntm all the other bonuses of owning.


LIFE HAS TO BE ABOUT BALANCE. What works for some people doesn''t make it right for EVERYONE. Just because someone doesn''t eat store brand spaghetti every night and buy no luxeries in order to pay off their home in 10 or 15 years DOES NOT make their way of living "RIGHT" or "BETTER" it makes it THEIR WAY!!! I am a 20-something who had my own thread where PS-ers came on like attack dogs telling me how my every way of living was wrong,,,,,, but it WORKS for us (me and my fiance). We lived with my parents for a year so that we could COMPLETELY pay off CC Debt, I could have the ring of my dreams, the safest Car (I am a bit of a crash test dummy), not to mention the car of my dreams (Honda NOT LEXUS OR BMW ETC ETC), My FI had to replace his car (Paid cash for an older car but still allowed us to do so) and save 20,000. MANY people on this thread would have encouraged us to NOT get the ring, NOT get the cars, NEVER go away, never eat out, never go out with friends to bars and what not and save 30,000-40,000 instead of "JUST" 20,000/. But that wasn''t what worked for us. We enjoyed the last year, took weekends away which we won''t do when we have our own house or kids, I LOOOOOOVE my car as well I should spending 2-3 hours in it EVERY day. I LOOOOVE my ring (smaller than the original poster''s but NOT going to upgrade), He LOOOOVES the joy my ring brings me and how I want that to be my ring forever. The extra money we coulda saved by not living and loving life for the past year wouldn''t put us in any bigger or small of a house, only changed our payments slighty so I TOTALLY see some other PS''ers points. The lecturing about money on here kills me. Your way is just that YOUR way, having an enormous retirement fund at 30, or a paid off house at 40 IS NOT EVERYONE''S goals or dreams. Some people are middle class and OK with having a manageable mortgage payment, car payments etc and LIVING LIFE FOR THE NOW! ONCE AGAIN IT HAS TO BE ABOUT BALANCE. If I can HAVE THE HOUSE, HAVE THE CAR, HAVE THE RING, AND SLOWLY SAVE FOR RETIREMENT FUND FOR WHEN I ACTUALLY RETIRE NOT WHEN IM 40 ..ETC ETC AND MAKE LIFE WORK..... MAYBE THAT''S OK FOR SOME OF US.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/24/2007 6:21:42 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten
LIFE HAS TO BE ABOUT BALANCE. What works for some people doesn''t make it right for EVERYONE. Just because someone doesn''t eat store brand spaghetti every night and buy no luxeries in order to pay off their home in 10 or 15 years DOES NOT make their way of living ''RIGHT'' or ''BETTER'' it makes it THEIR WAY!!!

Amen, sistah!

 

[TravelingGal]

No one is saying life isn''t about balance. If it weren''t, none of us would be here!

What got everyone up in arms was people''s sense of entitlement, which is annoying at ANY age.

 

[TravelingGal]

Funny thing is that I think a lot of us came onto PS (20's 30's and onward alike) to actually try to find ways to SAVE money. One stop at Tiffany's was all took for me to google "Lucida replica" back at the end of 2003 when I found PS.

Mara, you do know that your sis will be looking forward to her first b-bag at 18, right?

But as others said, when I was post college, all my friends aspired to have coach bags and D&B. When I lurked on TPF awhile back, the aspirations of that age group were much higher. However I don't know if this means they are MORE materialistic than we were in our 20s, or if times have changed and "40's is the new 30's", you know what I mean? I still think it's weird to see kids with cell phones, but I don't think I'm quite hip to the times.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 4/24/2007 2:06:32 PM
Author: peridot83

6 months isn''t going to change the above. 6 months changes nothing.

That''s not true... we were going to move to CA a few years ago and over 6 months I watched the prices go right up over our head resulting in us staying here in oregon an additional 4 years.

As for the rest of it - I can only share what I have learned, what I know, what I''ve experienced. You are absolutely free to disregard it all and do whatever you like.

I was thinking about this earlier while driving around and the part that bugs me is feeling like I''ve paid my dues to get where I am but the fact of the matter is that the choices I made got me here. If I''d made other choices and justified my spending all these years, I''d still be paying my dues, I''d just be doing it later and probably for longer. I don''t know what your goals are so maybe the way you live is totally fine. I want a million dollar house with a 200k mortgage. That''s what I''ve been working for all these years and yay, I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Feel free to have your own goals and your own methods of getting there.

Just remember, as long as you make up excuses for why you can''t, people will tell you why you can. The only way to stop the "wisdom and advice" from others is just to say, "yeah you''re probably right but who cares? I want a one carat diamond and that''s that!" No one can argue that. That''s just the way it is.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 4/24/2007 6:21:42 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten
All the new homeowners or new homeowners to be I know are going FHA.... Reasonable rates (I beleive between 6.5 and 6.8 on any given day) and only require 3% down payment. Is this only done in NJ? I can't imagine renting until I had 80000-150000 dollars for a downpayment like many people here are mentioning. Rent in NJ alone makes it darn near impossible to save ANYTHING let alone that amount. To get into a small house for about 200,000 we are looking at a 6000 down payment. Each 1000 more in the down payment changes the monthly mortgage a wopping 7 bucks. So to us, using 6000 of our 20,000 in savings for the downpayment and using the rest to make the home something we love makes sence, it 'works' for us. Saving an extra 98 bucks a month versus makes the 'house a home' isn't worth it. People can shame us for it, but I doubt people whose lives come to unexpected endings earl in life think just before they die 'Damn sure am glad I saved 98 bucks a month and didn't enjoy my life instead of getting the XX carat ring, or traveling for a bit or vacationing with loved ones. If the people buying 750,000 dollar homes used FHA and put down 25,000..... owning a home doesn't have to be 7-10 years away. The mortgage will be more.... sure but you will earn equity in that home for 7-10 years ntm all the other bonuses of owning.


LIFE HAS TO BE ABOUT BALANCE. What works for some people doesn't make it right for EVERYONE. Just because someone doesn't eat store brand spaghetti every night and buy no luxeries in order to pay off their home in 10 or 15 years DOES NOT make their way of living 'RIGHT' or 'BETTER' it makes it THEIR WAY!!! I am a 20-something who had my own thread where PS-ers came on like attack dogs telling me how my every way of living was wrong,,,,,, but it WORKS for us (me and my fiance). We lived with my parents for a year so that we could COMPLETELY pay off CC Debt, I could have the ring of my dreams, the safest Car (I am a bit of a crash test dummy), not to mention the car of my dreams (Honda NOT LEXUS OR BMW ETC ETC), My FI had to replace his car (Paid cash for an older car but still allowed us to do so) and save 20,000. MANY people on this thread would have encouraged us to NOT get the ring, NOT get the cars, NEVER go away, never eat out, never go out with friends to bars and what not and save 30,000-40,000 instead of 'JUST' 20,000/. But that wasn't what worked for us. We enjoyed the last year, took weekends away which we won't do when we have our own house or kids, I LOOOOOOVE my car as well I should spending 2-3 hours in it EVERY day. I LOOOOVE my ring (smaller than the original poster's but NOT going to upgrade), He LOOOOVES the joy my ring brings me and how I want that to be my ring forever. The extra money we coulda saved by not living and loving life for the past year wouldn't put us in any bigger or small of a house, only changed our payments slighty so I TOTALLY see some other PS'ers points. The lecturing about money on here kills me. Your way is just that YOUR way, having an enormous retirement fund at 30, or a paid off house at 40 IS NOT EVERYONE'S goals or dreams. Some people are middle class and OK with having a manageable mortgage payment, car payments etc and LIVING LIFE FOR THE NOW! ONCE AGAIN IT HAS TO BE ABOUT BALANCE. If I can HAVE THE HOUSE, HAVE THE CAR, HAVE THE RING, AND SLOWLY SAVE FOR RETIREMENT FUND FOR WHEN I ACTUALLY RETIRE NOT WHEN IM 40 ..ETC ETC AND MAKE LIFE WORK..... MAYBE THAT'S OK FOR SOME OF US.

You're absolutely correct, life should be about balance...but the person who believes that balance is seeing someone at the nail salon has a larger ring and going to home to pout about it, only to have her SO decide to double the size of her e-ring before they've even made it down the aisle needs a reality check (she and her fiance both!).

No one here, except the OP is personally invested in the financial choices that the OP makes. Just like no one is affected by the choices you, who are clearly quite bitter about the responses you recieved to a previous thread, and your fiance make. Members of PS are quite opinionated, and for the most part very wise, and will share their opinions and attempt to provide some guidance, when people choose to share information about themselves and their situations that seem a bit troublesome or illogical, especially those members who have been there, done that and now, on the other side, can see that their might have been a better way.

You can absolutely do it your way, but spouting anger because people don't always pat one another on the back for the decisions they make is just plain silly.

 

[Mara]

6 months isn't going to change the above. 6 months changes nothing.

______________

I totally missed this until Cehra quoted it but I have a story.

We got married in May 2004. In Jan 2004 we bought our townhouse.

A bunch of people said 'why are you buying now, just wait the 5 months until you are married, it's easier and less paperwork'.

We said, 'well we don't know what will be going on in May or June or July 2004...we know now that we have this opportunity, we love this place, and we want to take it.' We were getting a stellar deal on the unit, it was brand new and the old buyer had fallen out of financing and the builder was done and wanted to move on so gave it to us at the price the old buyer was getting it which was like $30k less than last unit sold.

We got married in May 2004. In June 2004, a townhouse in our complex, end unit like ours, mirror image, sold for about $100k more than what we had just paid 6 months ago for our own unit.

That 6 months would have entirely priced us out of that community/complex/unit...we would not have been able to afford to get that same place.

So we are SOOO glad we didn't wait the 6 months or whatever until we got married like so many people were saying. Since then the values have only gone up. Even though things are holding now and may be dropping like $10k here or there, we are still so happy we took the risk at the time.

So yes 6 months can change a ton. The RE market here vs 6 months ago is actually a very different landscape. A year ago is even more of a change. I think part of it depends on what area you are in...if you are in a volatile, quickly moving market that is in demand like California or similar then 6 months could make or break whether you have a 2 bedroom or 3 bedroom or a house or a condo etc. I don't think that ALWAYS happens but it's smart to just be watching things and be able to be 'ready' if something does work in your favor. Just my own experience.

 

[TravelingGal]

You know, it''s often this whole "you have to pay your dues" that rankles younger people. People who''ve paid their dues think that others should as well. There might even be a bit of jealousy when younger people somehow get things without paying the perceived dues. It''s common in the workplace...older people won''t promote younger people even though they are deserving without putting them through the wringer first. Younger people often don''t see why they have to climb that ladder a step at a time. The generation gap goes both ways...believe me, I have lived it and are still living it.

My thing is if younger gals can get more and are happy with their lives even if isnt''what I would do, I don''t care....more power to them. As long as they don''t file bankruptcy and make others pay for their mistakes, it''s their life.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/24/2007 7:02:45 PM
Author: Mara

6 months isn''t going to change the above. 6 months changes nothing.

______________

I totally missed this until Cehra quoted it but I have a story.

We got married in May 2004. In Jan 2004 we bought our townhouse.

A bunch of people said ''why are you buying now, just wait the 5 months until you are married, it''s easier and less paperwork''.

We said, ''well we don''t know what will be going on in May or June or July 2004...we know now that we have this opportunity, we love this place, and we want to take it.'' We were getting a stellar deal on the unit, it was new and the old buyer had fallen out of financing so we were saving money immediately from previous units sold.

We got married in May 2004. In June 2004, a townhouse in our complex, end unit like ours, mirror image, sold for about $100k more than what we had just paid 6 months ago for our own unit.

That 6 months would have entirely priced us out of that community/complex/unit...we would not have been able to afford to get that same place.

So we are SOOO glad we didn''t wait the 6 months or whatever until we got married like so many people were saying. Since then the values have only gone up. Even though things are holding now and may be dropping like $10k here or there, we are still so happy we took the risk at the time.

So yes 6 months can change a ton. The RE market here vs 6 months ago is actually a very different landscape. A year ago is even more of a change. I think part of it depends on what area you are in...if you are in a volatile, quickly moving market that is in demand like California or similar then 6 months could make or break whether you have a 2 bedroom or 3 bedroom or a house or a condo etc. I don''t think that ALWAYS happens but it''s smart to just be watching things and be able to be ''ready'' if something does work in your favor. Just my own experience.

Gosh, I''m feeling talkative today! Sorry!

But, yes this is totally true! As I said, I put off my saving for one year. I was good at it, but figured I''d blow some money on travel and then get back in the game. I''m priced out and probably will be for a long long time. All for 4 MONTHS of travel.

Granted it has been a whacked out market in the last 5 years, but just goes to show, sometimes a few months does make a difference. I don''t regret my decision...it was the best time I had in my life and I learned a lot. And as I mentioned before, I met TGuy on that trip, so it does make the loss of a home sting a little less....most of the time.

 

[poptart]

Date: 4/24/2007 6:59:07 PM
Author: KimberlyH>

You''re absolutely correct, life should be about balance...but the person who believes that balance is seeing someone at the nail salon has a larger ring and going to home to pout about it, only to have her SO decide to double the size of her e-ring before they''ve even made it down the aisle needs a reality check (she and her fiance both!).


No one here, except the OP is personally invested in the financial choices that the OP makes. Just like no one is affected by the choices you, who are clearly quite bitter about the responses you recieved to a previous thread, and your fiance make. Members of PS are quite opinionated, and for the most part very wise, and will share their opinions and attempt to provide some guidance, when people choose to share information about themselves and their situations that seem a bit troublesome or illogical, especially those members who have been there, done that and now, on the other side, can see that their might have been a better way.


You can absolutely do it your way, but spouting anger because people don''t always pat one another on the back for the decisions they make is just plain silly.

I agree with you Kimberley. Life is about balance, finding beautiful things to relish in now, as well as investing in the future.

But notice how many still take that enjoying the "now" as being something that relies on finances (getting ring, car, house, etc. etc.), when there is so much NOW that is free and being passed up. For instance, today here was absolutely gorgeous, and right now there is this amazing thunderstorm outside and the sky is golden and perfect, with the thunder cracking. I stood outside for 20 minutes drinking in every bit of the NOW, noticing how amazing the trees, clouds, and landscape looked and felt. It cost me absolutely nothing to enjoy that, and even though it''s just a memory, it''s a free one that I can always keep.

On another note, if someone who is older, has been through financial difficulties, and is pointing out red flags that they see I would definitely perk up and listen. I really don''t think people say things on here to intentionally hurt others, and if someone is taking the time out of their day to give a bit of advice, I am going to suck up my pride, say, "Yes, I should have thought this or that purchase through better," and move on. Despite my belief that I am mature for my age, I can''t help the blatant fact that other people have MORE life experience. You display your maturity not only through your spending habits, but your willingness to listen and learn from those that have already taken a trip down the path we are on now.

P.S. I am NOT talking to any specific person or event. It''s just a general observation and trend I am noticing. I quoted your post Kimberley because I agreed with it and then wanted to add my own thoughts!

*M*

 

[Independent Gal]

You''re so right Poptart (and so wise, as usual!). I lived on next to nothing from my late teens right through my mid 20''s while I was in school and I was thoroughly contented because there are so many things to enjoy that are entirely divorced from money: friendship, love, beautiful landscapes, music, the inherent pleasure of hard work, achievement, etc. And when I think about the one thing I spent money on in those years, it''s travel, and that''s because travel, while it costs money, is not a ''thing'', it''s an experience that helps make you who you are.

And who we are (or what kind of person we make ourselves into) is what makes us really happy or not, or at least that''s what my grammy tells me. And she''s a wise lady too.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 4/24/2007 7:21:57 PM
Author: poptart

Date: 4/24/2007 6:59:07 PM
Author: KimberlyH>

You''re absolutely correct, life should be about balance...but the person who believes that balance is seeing someone at the nail salon has a larger ring and going to home to pout about it, only to have her SO decide to double the size of her e-ring before they''ve even made it down the aisle needs a reality check (she and her fiance both!).


No one here, except the OP is personally invested in the financial choices that the OP makes. Just like no one is affected by the choices you, who are clearly quite bitter about the responses you recieved to a previous thread, and your fiance make. Members of PS are quite opinionated, and for the most part very wise, and will share their opinions and attempt to provide some guidance, when people choose to share information about themselves and their situations that seem a bit troublesome or illogical, especially those members who have been there, done that and now, on the other side, can see that their might have been a better way.


You can absolutely do it your way, but spouting anger because people don''t always pat one another on the back for the decisions they make is just plain silly.

I agree with you Kimberley. Life is about balance, finding beautiful things to relish in now, as well as investing in the future.

But notice how many still take that enjoying the ''now'' as being something that relies on finances (getting ring, car, house, etc. etc.), when there is so much NOW that is free and being passed up. For instance, today here was absolutely gorgeous, and right now there is this amazing thunderstorm outside and the sky is golden and perfect, with the thunder cracking. I stood outside for 20 minutes drinking in every bit of the NOW, noticing how amazing the trees, clouds, and landscape looked and felt. It cost me absolutely nothing to enjoy that, and even though it''s just a memory, it''s a free one that I can always keep.

On another note, if someone who is older, has been through financial difficulties, and is pointing out red flags that they see I would definitely perk up and listen. I really don''t think people say things on here to intentionally hurt others, and if someone is taking the time out of their day to give a bit of advice, I am going to suck up my pride, say, ''Yes, I should have thought this or that purchase through better,'' and move on. Despite my belief that I am mature for my age, I can''t help the blatant fact that other people have MORE life experience. You display your maturity not only through your spending habits, but your willingness to listen and learn from those that have already taken a trip down the path we are on now.

P.S. I am NOT talking to any specific person or event. It''s just a general observation and trend I am noticing. I quoted your post Kimberley because I agreed with it and then wanted to add my own thoughts!

*M*

Thanks so much for sharing that, poptart. What a wonderful reminder that joy can be found in things that cost nothing. You are such a bright lady!

 

[diamondfan]

I think, in general, since this a forum with all makes and models so to speak, there is always likely to be a lively debate about certain hot button issues. I do not feel, most times, there is ONE view or ONE right way. I personally do not like the sense of entitlement that I see, but I am no one to judge someone loving material items and working to get them. It is a melting pot of experience and advice, which all are free to pick and choose from. If someone posts something that does not pertain to me at all (i.e. I am 22 and very grounded and responsible and save my money etc yet there are replies about kids who are the opposite)...I just would not even bother getting upset, though I might chime in to show that there are many permutations. This is one dimensional here, posters respond to what comes across via the typed word, and so if someone ruffles feathers and then gets some riled up responses, that is part and parcel of this to me. I do not come here to offend, but to offer my thoughts and views are they relate to me and my life. If any of it helps someone, I am thrilled. However, if I do not agree or hear someone sort of going down a path that, from experience can cause issues, I will state my feelings. They are only that, and no one needs to heed what I say. I feel I am well informed and have a nice amount of life experiences, so I offer my views. I have certainly disagreed with people, as is my right, but hope and try to do it in a way that is constructive. And I have also stopped replying to threads that have sort of spiraled away from the OP's intent or that have gotten snarky...if I do not feel like some pie, that is!