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My advice: don''t involve the GF in the purchase & don''t learn about Diamond Qaulity

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I may be late to the party, Ski, but I read through your past posts and didn't seem to see anything that addressed my particular question - does the Helzberg setting HAVE to be sold with their stone? They wouldn't sell you the setting on its own? Sorry if you had already mentioned that they both have to be sold together, but if you haven't actually asked them it might be worth a shot.

For what it's worth, I was in your girlfriend's position (sort of). My boyfriend had been pretty insistent that my engagement stone should be a round brilliant, but I was dead set on getting a radiant cut. I'd actually never seen either in person before (except for brief glances at e-rings in my circle of friends and family), but I just KNEW that I didn't want a round and that a radiant was just perfect for me. He had many reasons as to why I should get an RB, and he ended up buying one for me on Blue Nile and told me we could return it if I didn't love it. He ended up sending it back (there were inclusion issues with the stone, and he changed his mind about the setting, I wasn't yet set on getting a round, etc), and he ordered me a radiant, "just to see." When it came....I wasn't wowed. I decided that I actually preferred the round to the radiant after all
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. So we ended up sending it back and now we're looking at rounds. He said that he had been worried that if I went with a radiant I'd end up changing my mind fairly soon down the road and regretting my choice and...yeah, he was right. And he hasn't said "I told you so" once!
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However, although I know what it's like to have my boyfriend tell me that I shouldn't get what I want, you are in a strange predicament because you ARE willing to get your GF everything she wants, except BETTER. I am as confused as everyone else. Perhaps you should just get her the ring she loves and be happy that she loves it. My boyfriend didn't force me to get an RB against my wishes, he gave me options and let me decide for myself that I wanted an RB. You gave her the options, and she decided what she decided. If she soon realizes that she has made a huge mistake in refusing a better diamond with a higher quality custom setting then it's her bad. In fact, if she ends up regretting her choice, I kind of think she deserves it. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but if I had told my boyfriend that I wanted a radiant and wouldn't look at anything else, and he got me a radiant and I ended up regretting it, then I would have deserved that, too. It would have taught me a hell of a lesson in making uninformed, rash decisions.

I think you mentioned in a previous post that the only other ring your GF would consider is a Tiffany ring. If both are equally acceptable to her, I'd get her the Tiffany. Yes you will absolutely not be getting as much bang for your buck, but I'm pretty sure that the Tiffany box will make your gf forget all about the Helzberg, and you will not hate the Tiffany ring like you hate the Helzberg. It's probably the lesser of two evils in this situation.

Good luck!! So sorry that this process has been so stressful for you. Let us know what you decide!
 
too bad you can't get her both rings (non custom of course so you can return from WF) and say hey choose the winner
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Ill bet WF would blow the other one away
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The problem is the E ring that she tried on at Helzberg is the "winner" because its tactile, where she can see touch and feel it on her finger, whereas online you can't and so her perception is quite skewed. Too bad, you were good about doing your research. Its more immediate gratification as the ring is there in front of you, and you can't argue with another ring in front of you so of course Helzberg comes out the winner in her mind.
 
Date: 12/8/2009 2:41:09 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
I don''t think I umderstand your girlfriend at all. Why wouldn''t she want a better ring for a cheaper price? I mean it''s not even a ''designer'' brand which I know some people will pay a premium for. Honestly, I could imagine you being upset for a while to have to buy a ring you weren''t happy with because of irrational/emotional thinking on your girlfriend''s part.


Haha ... I say go the whiteflash route and see if she even notices.
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Ditto! Whiteflash does wonderful work - no way she would be disappointed.
 
Although you were generous in involving her in the process, it seems to be more of a headache for you than expected/intended. The purchase of an engagement ring should is a stressful process but it should be an enjoyable one as well. Not a stressful process filled with regret and remorse.

Since you know the stone shape, size and the setting that she likes, I would (as mentioned by others) purchase through WF. They are a very knowledgeable, reputable company with great customer service. I understand that she will be the bearer and forever wearer of the ring but it is your blood, sweat and tears that is purchasing the ring.

Life is full of compromises and both of you need to be happy with the choice that is made.
 
Date: 12/8/2009 7:57:22 AM
Author: HVVS
If you get all twisted up over this, then you are headed for big troubles down the road.
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Really. I don''t think the guy is ''being an ass'' at all. He did research, and comparison shopping, and some competitive analysis.


From the school of hard knocks: Now''s the time to take a good hard look at her, and her thought processes, and decide whether the stupidity is just an isolated incident, or she just is one of those who never bother to study a situation and think things through. I married a dimwit man that I had to babysit and do the thinking for. He ran us about $40k into credit card debt, not to mention would not hold a job. Children get only half of their genes from you, so be careful who you pick.
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FOR THE RECORD
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I did not say the OP was being an ass.
He has got himself in a situation with his FI where both their heels are dug in. He has certainly played a part in getting into this situation and and now he wants to fix it.
 
I suspect that the conversation where you suggested a different ring than the one she loves may have been approached in a less than tactful manner. That is the only reason I can think of that she would get mad about this and put her foot down, beyond pure unadulterated obstinacy on her part.
 
Come back to us, SkiRush!

I hope SkiRush reads our encouraging words!
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Ya, I'm here, I've been reading all of the comments all along. I got quite the response on this one. I appreciate all the help.

I got a call from Whiteflash today. I was pretty much settled on the Helzberg until the call from WF. Now my head is spining...They suggested buying a stone and a temporary setting while the "real" setting is being made. They even said they would refund the purchase price of the temporary setting in full! It's pretty tempting.

On one hand, there's the Helzberg which is "the one" for her. You have the fact that it's tangible and in a store you can actually walk in to.

On the other hand, there's the WF.

Let me ask the ladies their honest opinion...how would you feel about a temporary setting? Would this potentially ruin your engagement memories? Would it be horrible to think back to your engagement and remember a nice stone in a temporary setting?

Like the previous posters mentioned...I'm just a guy trying to get the most for his hard earned money...while at the same time trying to make his GF happy.

thanks,
Ski
 
Date: 12/8/2009 7:23:56 PM
Author: SkiRush
Ya, I''m here, I''ve been reading all of the comments all along. I got quite the response on this one. I appreciate all the help.


I got a call from Whiteflash today. I was pretty much settled on the Helzberg until the call from WF. Now my head is spining...They suggested buying a stone and a temporary setting while the ''real'' setting is being made. They even said they would refund the purchase price of the temporary setting in full! It''s pretty tempting.


On one hand, there''s the Helzberg which is ''the one'' for her. You have the fact that it''s tangible and in a store you can actually walk in to.


On the other hand, there''s the WF.


Let me ask the ladies their honest opinion...how would you feel about a temporary setting? Would this potentially ruin your engagement memories? Would it be horrible to think back to your engagement and remember a nice stone in a temporary setting?


Like the previous posters mentioned...I''m just a guy trying to get the most for his hard earned money...while at the same time trying to make his GF happy.


thanks,

Ski
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Personally, I wouldn''t mind at all. I think many of the ladies on PS would also be ok with it. But we''re love jewelry, love the process of finding the perfect stone and the setting. It doesn''t sound like your GF is at that point yet; I think she would appreciate the "ready to go" setting more because 1) it''s her dream setting; and 2) she gets instant gratification.

Honestly, I would ask WF to design something as close to the Helzberg without copying and then present that completed ring to her. I wonder if she would notice that it''s not the Helzberg?
 
personally I would be okay with it - and like someone earlier said they picked out the stone and the FI and her mom did the setting...

.....BUT.....

I think if she''s not on board you''re gonna shoot yourself in the foot
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In this situation, I agree with BEG. Personally I would have been completely happy to get a temp setting with a beautiful stone and help plan my own permanent setting. But here, where you''re encountering some resistance to the idea of using an online vendor vs. an in-person retailer already, I think it''s best to present her with a finished ring.

I also agree with the suggestions to point her to SMTR. I actually wish that we had magnified pictures of rings with not-so-great stones or settings for comparison purposes (not that I''m implying that this Helzberg ring is going to be anything like that, just that it would be nice if we had a gallery of generic maul store stuff to play Goofus to PS vendors'' Gallant for illustration). But even without that, once you learn to see and appreciate the fine distinctions, there''s no going back.

Which may be bad news for your pocketbook in the long run if she gets as addicted as we all are, just so you know.
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I hate to further complicate this issue, but there was one other problem with the Helzberg ring that I TOTALLY forgot about until I just spoke with them and the reminded me.

They said the ring is only sizable to a 6, perhaps due to the intricate setting. I have no idea, they didn''t say for sure why. She is a 5.5. So, they would have to send it away to have some "special" customizing done to it and that itself would take 3-4 weeks. So, if I walked in there today and bought it, they would only be able to put a temporary sizer on it (I have no idea what that is).


Oh...I''m so confused. If I went with WF, what recommendations do you guys have for the center stone with respect to color and clarity. According to WF, they don''t any cushions in house that are less than a $4100, so that puts the setting and stone over my budget ($5000). The stats on the Helzberg diamond are as follows: .80, SI1 in clarity and G in color. It''s a proprietary cut with 145 facets to cause more brilliance. It comes with a GEMEX certification to show the sparkle and a IGI certification. So, I wanted to go bigger than .80, but not sacrafice color, clarity, or cut.
 
Well there is your chance. You can tell her that the H ring has to be customized. While both of you are in the "period of waiting", you can go with WF; provided that they make an exact replica.
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I just want to congratulate you on all the work you have done and taking into consideration all the ideas people have presented. You are in a tough spot. I would have LOVED it if my husband had given me a diamond in a temp setting and let me pick my own final setting. I also would have rather had the better stone. There is no way I would want the I1. On the other hand, she doesn''t seem to care. But you don''t want to waste money. I think in the end you WILL make the best choice and no matter what you have been quite the sweetheart for the trying!
 
Personally I would love the idea of a temp setting, and then pick out the perfect permanent setting together. In fact that's exactly what my husband I did do, and I wouldn't do it any different given the choice.

However, I definitely don't think the way your GF does.
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I do think that the fact that the Helzberg isn't actually going to be instant gratification after all definitely gives you an opening in going with WF instead.

Those extra facets are definitely a marketing gimmick. The number of facets don't do much one way or the other except for giving a different look to the stone- more smaller sparkles rather than fewer bigger ones. It's the angles of the cut on the diamond that make the performance, one way or the other.

As far as color goes you could probably go GIA J if she was fine with an IGI H/I; if you were going for a IGI G after doing some shopping, then I'd say GIA I might be pretty close in equivalent, or H to be safe. Clarity, eye clean is pretty much it- SI1s and SI2s can be eye clean, just depends on the rock, yanno? WF can help you establish eye-cleanliness, they're practiced at it
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And major props to you for sticking this out, and trying to go for a good compromise for both of you. She's a lucky girl.
 
Before she tried on the Helzberg ring, did she know she wanted a cushion cut?

Or . . . did a cushion cut just happen to be in the ring style she fell in love with?
 
Have you seen these cushions from GOG? All are beautiful and less than $3,800 (wire transfer). Send the stone to WF to be set in custom setting.

Gorgeous cushion in a one-of-a-kind custom setting for the same price (if not less) than the Helzberg. IMO, the choice is a no brainer. Show your GF these stones and have her watch the videos. Shouldn't take much convincing for her to change her mind.


.85 I SI1

.94 H VS2

.80 G VS1

1.08 J SI1
 
You said she told you she doesn't care about the specs, so I wouldn't go the "surprise" route with a cushion cut and a temp setting. IMO, you should tell your girlfriend about the sizing issue and see what she has to say. If she changes her mind, hooray! But if she doesn't care about the wait and would rather have the Helzberg ring, buy her the Helzberg ring. It may not be 'mind clean' for you, but it's what she wants.

Let her make the final call.
 
GOG can do custom too.
 
The cushion cut just sort of happened because that''s what that ring one. I know she likes princess cut too. Which would sparkle more, cushion or princess?

ski
 
I am new to posting around here, but have been following your threads with interest. My BF and I have experienced some tensions over the choices he gets to make about the ring vs. my preferences... mostly resolved, I think. :)

Something that struck me about what you wrote is that your GF didn''t care about the value of having a custom piece done/larger stone/better stone(s), etc. My ring won''t cost half of your budget, and because of that I have done a lot of research to make sure my BF''s budget is well spent. I find it curious that she is willing to be cavalier with your (I''m sure) hard earned money. I don''t want to throw a wrench into things... maybe she''s just not about details.

I''ve realized that, sometimes, my BF knows more about me and what I like than I do in the moment. I fell in love with a particular setting, and showed it to him. I had a lot of engraving on almost all its surfaces. He immediately said he thought I would eventually get tired of it... that in the long run I would end up liking something simpler more. And, he was right. If your GF is anything like me, I think she will appreciate you taking the risk to go with a WF custom piece and a better stone. It will show her how much you wanted to give her the most beautiful ring possible. I think it is important for you to feel good about the ring you give her. It is your money... if you know you can do better, while satisfying her aesthetic preferences, it is a no-lose situation. When told my BF about your predicament, he asked the question, "Is it more important to get the ring right or the store right?"... I think the answer is obvious.

I agree with finding a cushion from GOG. The ones Collee listed look lovely.
 
Date: 12/8/2009 8:57:38 PM
Author: tulip928
Before she tried on the Helzberg ring, did she know she wanted a cushion cut?

Or . . . did a cushion cut just happen to be in the ring style she fell in love with?
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Good question!
 
Date: 12/8/2009 9:21:17 PM
Author: SkiRush
The cushion cut just sort of happened because that''s what that ring one. I know she likes princess cut too. Which would sparkle more, cushion or princess?
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They''re very different looks. A princess will have more tiny white pinpoint sparkles -- a good princess makes me think of a field of stars. A cushion will have fewer and bigger blocks of flash. GOG has some good videos demonstrating each type of cut under different lights that you might find helpful (and if I wasn''t total crap at searching, I would link them, but... well...). Even though they''re both square-ish cuts, they have totally different personalities.
 
I am no psychologist, but I am concerned at this point in your relationship that she has dug her heals in. I may want to ask myself is this indicitive of the person I am marrying and will this be the norm while we are married? Only you can answer that question. Will she show flexibility for other things? Best of luck.
 
Date: 12/8/2009 9:45:10 PM
Author: Liane




Date: 12/8/2009 9:21:17 PM
Author: SkiRush
The cushion cut just sort of happened because that's what that ring one. I know she likes princess cut too. Which would sparkle more, cushion or princess?
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They're very different looks. A princess will have more tiny white pinpoint sparkles -- a good princess makes me think of a field of stars. A cushion will have fewer and bigger blocks of flash. GOG has some good videos demonstrating each type of cut under different lights that you might find helpful (and if I wasn't total crap at searching, I would link them, but... well...). Even though they're both square-ish cuts, they have totally different personalities.
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Yes, they really are very different in personality. A princess feels very, very "modern" and rather hard edged to me- the sharp right angles and small sparkles do that I think. A cushion is a lot more romantic and soft, sometimes antique, in feeling. A princess can be easier to shop for, actually, because they are cut graded by AGS, and you can thus cut through the chaff and get a gorgeously cut princess by going for an AGS 0- that'll pretty much guarantee a beautiful stone with minimal fuss in finding it. (WF has A Cut Above princesses, and Wink etc. carries High Performance Diamond's branded line, also gorgeous.)

That being said, the type of antique style setting- the Tiffany Legacy look-alike- is one I would match stylistically with a cushion, due to the antique/romantic look of the setting.

As far as sparkle, you can get smashingly gorgeous, and incredibly sparkly, either cushions or princesses. Just a matter of finding a well cut one. Cushions do come in a lot more flavors though, that's for sure, and can be rather harder to shop for in general- at least that's the impression I get. Frankly my favorite cushions are the August Vintage branded ones from GOG but that's just my taste for all things vintage coming through. They're mostly square if I remember right, and have these amazing large facets that are precision cut to be mirrorlike and beautiful. Arjunajane has one, and her photos of it are just heavenly- those big center facets look like pastel-painted rainbows and are to die for; I'd love one myself!

ETA: Here's a link to AJ's pics of her to-die-for GOG cushion (before they were known as the August Vintage cushions, but that's what it is all right).
 
I prefer the softer, rounder look of the cushion myself.
 
This one that Collee posted above is the antique cushion from GOG that''s close in size to the Helzberg ring:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6355/
and would be beautiful in the setting (oh swoon!)


I agree with what LittleGreyKitten said:

"That being said, the type of antique style setting- the Tiffany Legacy look-alike- is one I would match stylistically with a cushion, due to the antique/romantic look of the setting."
 
A couple of notes ... you mentioned that you thought your GF would be okay with a Tiffany ring too, yes? I don''t normally advocate for Tiffany (I think they''re overpriced), but you can actually get the smallest Legacy in your budget. They charge a premium, but they''re definitely high quality ... and, dude, a Tiffany ring over an I1 wins, any day.

If you''re going the custom route, think about the look of the ring she wants as well as the look of the stone: if the Helzberg stone is one of the ones cut for more facets, I''m not sure if an August Vintage cushion from GOG is the way to go. Those guys have big, broad facets: it''s a completely different look.

If the Helzberg ring will take a month anyway, honestly? Contact Mike the Cushion Guy at Engagement Rings Direct, ask for his best advice on a crushed-ice looking cushion and have him make up a legacy inspired setting.

Bottom line: you want to make her happy. If she can''t have instant gratification either way ... it might as well be top quality, right?
 
I would just talk to your gf again and then come to a mutual decision. You can explain your uneasiness and the importance that you both agree on the ring. I personally wouldn''t do anything behind her back since you have involved her up until this point. And I may be one of the only people on here that thinks this way but the setting is VERY important and even something that is 95% the same will not do.

I hope you deal with this together.
 
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