My advice: don''t involve the GF in the purchase & don''t learn about Diamond Qaulity

[SkiRush]

So, I tried having the talk with my GF that the Helzberg ring she wants is just not enough quality for her and not enough quality for the money.

The result, we ended up getting into another argument about the ring. This whole experience has been annoying to say the least. I wish that she wasn''t so involved and I wish that I never researched this stuff as much as I have. Most people just walk right into a mall type store and buy a ring. I did what you all did and researched what I was buying and it ended up making me miserable. She came right out and said she doesn''t care about the IGI certification or any of the specs; like the fact that it''s only 14 karat gold for over $5000.

Maybe I don''t understand women...actually, I''m sure I don''t. I even told her about the custom order thing at Whiteflash and she didn''t seem to care for it.

It''s a .80 Cushion cut, G color, SI1 clarity, but...certified by IGI

On the plus side, it''s one of their proprietary cuts with more facets (like a leo diamond) and comes with a Gemex certification to show it''s brighter and sparkly. This particular stone for the one she picked is also very very clean. I''m surprised it wasn''t a VS clarity. I only saw a tiny spec under magnif.

But, things like the 14 karat gold just bothers me so much. I think that''s crap. For over $5000 you would think it would be a minimum of 18 karat gold. And, of course, she says she doesn''t care about that.

I''m just so sick of shopping. My advice to people...just buy something that sparkles. All the research I did only ended up with an argument. Don''t discuss any of this with the GF. I ruined the surprise and stressed myself out.

All I was trying to do was ensure quality to make her happy.

 

[E B]

I''m sorry, Ski. Some people care more about details than others. If she loves the Helzberg ring and you''re able to afford it, go for it.

A plus: You''ll have the ring (of her dreams!) in time for your proposal on the 29th!

 

[sonnyjane]

Sorry that was your experience, but quite to the contrary, it sounds like your fiance being involved resulted in her getting a ring that SHE loves, but that YOU are not happy with. I'd much rather have that be the situation than the other way around.

If she is happy with the stone, the certification, and its performance, that's all that matters. Also, my ring is 14K gold "crap" as you put it. I had a budget of $7,000, and I simply wanted to put all the money toward the stone, and not the material of my setting. I'm quite happy with my set...

 

[Liane]

That sux. I''m sorry to hear it and I can imagine how frustrated you must be. I would be too.

But like sonnyjane said, at least you know it''s a ring she loves. If that''s what she wants, then that''s what she wants. Ultimately you did all this research because you wanted to make her happy, and, well, she''s told you how to do that. It''s not really any stranger than a girl insisting on the Tiffany box because she loves the Tiffany box, even if we all know that you can get an equivalent or better set elsewhere for less money. It just happens that for your girl, it''s Helzberg and not Tiffany.

I sympathize with your position but I don''t think you made a mistake getting her involved. At least you can be sure she''ll love the ring.

Honestly I''d say give it a few days, let things calm down a bit, and then if she hasn''t changed her mind, go for it.

 

[decodelighted]

Skirush ... what you''re going through is a bummer. But you really decide how you feel about it. You don''t have to STAY bummed. Jewelry is a very personal item. You are looking for *value* and she''s looking for *dream*. There is going to be A LOT of compromise ahead (for you and every other member of a couple out there). When you''re looking at houses -- same deal ... she''ll value features you don''t and you''ll value features she doesn''t. This is just one tiny step on the long road of life and right now it seems like your whole world -- but I swear its not.

If she thought you should have a sensible Volvo and you dreamed of a vintage Jeep Wrangler -- which would you rather she surprise you with?

You''ve done your "due diligence" ... you tried to get the best value & even educate her about diamonds etc .... it didn''t work. That''s OKAY! Really! Your intention is to give her the best -- but in this case perhaps "the best" is simply what she wants.

JMHO.

 

[decodelighted]

Also ... the difference in 14K gold vs 18K gold in the amount of actual gold you''re talking about such a TEENSY TINY amount it isn''t worth getting worked up over. Plenty of "fine" jewelry is 14K gold.

Its probably a beautiful stone. Who knows -- it might even rate the same if judged by GIA or AGS. You could always take the ring to an independent appraiser & see what *they* say about it. Is there a return policy?

 

[D2B]

It is a hard one, but you know in the end it is about making your FI swoon with happiness, and if that means it is this ring, so let it be. In 10 years you might be ready for an upgrade and you can get something else, or she might cheris it all her life and that is waht matters.

Diamonds are a luxury and they are so subjective. Best cut, best colour, best clarity it is all in the eye of the beholder. One person values D another loves the warmth of an J or K, some see imperfections as beautiful individual birthmarks, others want a flawless stone. The reality is that no matter what stone the normal consumer buys as soon as you walk out the door the resale value is not that great, so if it is not an investment, than what matters the most, that she is happy.

Outside PS, who really stares and looks in depth at diamonds? Not many (that is why I love this site and am on here), but most people wouldnt know a good diamond from a bad one or really care for that matter. So in the end, all that matters is making your FI happy and feeling like she matters. Yes, you may be right, BUT what is more important - that you are right, or that you and her are happy. The "perfect" diamond will mean nothing to her if her wishes are ignored for criteria that matter to diamond enthusiasts, if she doesnt care, then neither should you. You have tried educating her, you have tried talking to her, but in the end, if you have the money does it really matter.

She might in years to come decide she wants a better ring, have fun with the process with her, be gracious, so that she can say , yep you were right, i want a better diamond, but dont belittle her choice, it is her ring to wear proudly.

Hope that didnt come accross to strong, I love PS and only want the best cut, quality for $, but I know that outside PS and my DH, no-one really cares or would understand, and that is fine, my diamonds are for me, just as this ring is for her.

good luck

d2b

 

[Hest88]

I''m sorry what should have been a fun process has turned out to be so frustrating. As others have said, please try to just focus on making her happy. In the end, this ring is a symbol of your love, and your love means making her as happy as you possibily can. It''s like...the difference between your mom giving you socks because that''s what she thinks you should get vs. getting you something she doesn''t value but knows you''d like. You''ve been a wonderful fiance for caring so much; I think regardless she''ll appreciate that.

 

[Cehrabehra]

buy her the ring she wants and tell her she''s stuck with it the rest of her life (then surprise her with a quality diamond for some anniversary years from now)

If it''s any consolation I have a ring from that jeweler I got for my 2nd anniversary - I wouldn''t purchase it again but I still love it for what it means

 

[SkiRush]

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate your support. I think I''ve come to terms with the ring (again). I guess I was surprised by how much she was stuck on that particular one.

I need to stop shopping and spend time planning the engagement!

thanks again.

 

[swingirl]

Date: 12/7/2009 7:43:58 PM
Author: SkiRush
Thank you all for your input. I appreciate your support. I think I've come to terms with the ring (again). I guess I was surprised by how much she was stuck on that particular one.

I need to stop shopping and spend time planning the engagement!

thanks again.

Have you tried sending her over to PS? I thought I knew what I wanted, too, until I went to the Show Me the Ring threads. Then I started to notice the details, the workmanship, different qualities, etc. Maybe your gf needs to visit some high-end vendors through the internet where things can be viewed magnified.

Of course, the bottom line is you want to make the engagement experience a positive one. You are doing the a lot more than 90% of the men out there.

 

[nkarma]

For one of my bdays while we were poor college students, I suggested a stuffed animal Wnnie the Pooh that was pink color and said I love you on his shirt. My bday is near Valentine's day. My Fiance was quite unhappy about spending $40 on a stuffed animal when there were so many other cool things he could buy. To this day, 5 or so years later, it is my favorite gift that I ever received. I like having winnie in bed with me when the bf is out of town (probably shouldn't admit that out loud). It always reminds me of him and makes me smile. It would mean even more if he hadn't been so resistant in the first place. I know his heart is there but different people have different opinions on what they value most. If I were you I would embrace that she found something she loves and it will make it all the more special for her. It is her engagement ring after all and she should think of you and how much you mean when she looks at it not that you argued over it.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Can we see some pictures once you buy it?

 

[MissGotRocks]

The real problem is that she wasn't able to compare what she wanted to what she could have had. If she had been able to have done that, the outcome might have been different.

You have certainly done your homework and offered her a choice that few others get as well. On the one hand, it is your money and you should be able to spend it in the way you see fit. On the other hand, pleasing her is the ultimate goal here. It seems as if you are going in the right direction!

As far as the 14 kt. gold goes, in my day most rings were all made of 14 kt. gold and we all thought it was pretty nifty. Some people even prefer the color of 14 kt. to 18 kt. so I wouldn't sweat that small detail so much. It is nice gold, won't turn her finger green, and really is nothing to turn one's nose up at!

I applaud your efforts, hope she is as happy with the ring as she seems to think she will be, and wish you all the best. You're a swell guy and she's lucky to become engaged to a guy that cares so much.

 

[gardengloves]

Hi Ski Rush.

Hang in there. This is why my son asked me to pick the stone with him. We set it simple and let her get the setting she wanted... She would have driven him mad... he knew it,LOL, but he went the traditional route, totally surprised her, and she did her thing with the setting. But at least we knew she had a great stone- she set it to her hearts content with her mom... he stayed out of that part.. laid low.... wise boy, my son... Congratulations...

 

[luv2sparkle]

Hey Ski Rush:

It is hard to give in when you feel you are not getting the most for your money, but you will be much happier in the
long run just letting her have the ring she wants. It will mean more to her. If you talked her into getting one that you love, she
may always resent it. For my first e-ring, I picked one because it was the cheapest one and my DH was so intent on buying
himself toys. He is not selfish at all, not even a tiny bit, but we were 20 and it was the first time he was making ''real money''.
I hated that ring every time I looked at it. When I talked to him about it, about 5 years into marriage, he felt so very bad and
we replaced it with a ring I wore for 28 years in 14K. So don''t stress about the details, just let her have the one she loves.
You will make her happy and in return you will be happy.

 

[WinkHPD]

Dude, I want to be supportive and all, but really, she has told you what she wants.

If you get all twisted up over this, then you are headed for big troubles down the road.

I have been with my wife now for nearly 40 years, and married now for more than 36 years, it was a LONG engagement. It took me several years to learn that life was a LOT better when I did not try to force my desires and opinions on her.

Does not mean we can not discuss and even change minds, but SAVE THE BIG BATTLES FOR IMPORTANT ISSUES!

You know what is going to make her happy at this point, now suck it up and go get it!

Wink

 

[gardengloves]

Date: 12/7/2009 10:36:35 PM
Author: luv2sparkle
Hey Ski Rush:


It is hard to give in when you feel you are not getting the most for your money, but you will be much happier in the

long run just letting her have the ring she wants. It will mean more to her. If you talked her into getting one that you love, she

may always resent it. For my first e-ring, I picked one because it was the cheapest one and my DH was so intent on buying

himself toys. He is not selfish at all, not even a tiny bit, but we were 20 and it was the first time he was making ''real money''.

I hated that ring every time I looked at it. When I talked to him about it, about 5 years into marriage, he felt so very bad and

we replaced it with a ring I wore for 28 years in 14K. So don''t stress about the details, just let her have the one she loves.

You will make her happy and in return you will be happy.

Wise words.. happy wife, happy life...

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 12/7/2009 9:18:40 PM
Author: MissGotRocks
The real problem is that she wasn't able to compare what she wanted to what she could have had. If she had been able to have done that, the outcome might have been different.


You have certainly done your homework and offered her a choice that few others get as well. On the one hand, it is your money and you should be able to spend it in the way you see fit. On the other hand, pleasing her is the ultimate goal here. It seems as if you are going in the right direction!


As far as the 14 kt. gold goes, in my day most rings were all made of 14 kt. gold and we all thought it was pretty nifty. Some people even prefer the color of 14 kt. to 18 kt. so I wouldn't sweat that small detail so much. It is nice gold, won't turn her finger green, and really is nothing to turn one's nose up at!


I applaud your efforts, hope she is as happy with the ring as she seems to think she will be, and wish you all the best. You're a swell guy and she's lucky to become engaged to a guy that cares so much.

I agree with this. If you decide to try one more time to convince, try showing her some of these vids:


GOG GIA Excellent v. GIA Good

2 H&A v. 1 common round

Choosing a RB with high optics

Maybe seeing is believing? My mom changed her mind about upgrading at Kays again when I showed her these - now she's letting me pick an H&A for her.

If you choose not to try again, then don't feel too bad. She'll be happy with her ring and that's all that matters right?

 

[tulip928]

Wow, you say Whiteflash could make this ring for you and it would just be a matter of days difference? In otherwords, it would be the very ring she wants, with a better quality diamond? Geez, to me this is a no brainer. You could even go with the exact size stone as the Helzberg ring.

Is December 29 carved in stone? What''s a few days and a new plan? She would still be getting the ring she wants with the Whiteflash ring. IMHO both of you would be happy.
$6000 is a lot of money, and I''m sure you''ve worked hard for it.

I guess I''m seeing this different than the majority here. She *would* get the ring she wants.

I don''t know the logistics of your locations - is that what''s causing the need to speed this transaction? Seems a shame to me. After all, she is a Lady in Waiting. Patience is a virtue.

 

[ACN]

Date: 12/7/2009 10:39:58 PM
Author: Wink
Dude, I want to be supportive and all, but really, she has told you what she wants.


If you get all twisted up over this, then you are headed for big troubles down the road.


I have been with my wife now for nearly 40 years, and married now for more than 36 years, it was a LONG engagement. It took me several years to learn that life was a LOT better when I did not try to force my desires and opinions on her.


Does not mean we can not discuss and even change minds, but SAVE THE BIG BATTLES FOR IMPORTANT ISSUES!


You know what is going to make her happy at this point, now suck it up and go get it!


Wink

I would say that an engagement ring is a big deal. $5k is a lot of money and unless you have lots of it sitting around and I guess it doesn''t matter. My GF was completely against the notion of buying a diamond online and after showing her the research, the options, and the PRICE, it was either get half in a B&M store or get the best bang for the buck online. It was a no brainer in the end...

 

[purrfectpear]

Buy the ring she wants. One of these days you are going to fall in love with a car, a boat, a bike or some other item that isn''t "worth" the particular cost of the item. But you''ll want it anyway. Some things can''t be justified, they just are

Have a lovely engagement and a joyful marriage. Then when you''ve had your fifth anniversary, or perhaps your first child, you can surprise her with a bigger and nicer diamond. Don''t discuss it, just make it a total out of left field surprise.

 

[Circe]

I'm with you on this one in terms of the specifics, but ....

... you are *damned* lucky you *did* talk to her about it. If your beloved is a person of strong opinions and preferences, it is A LOT worse to try to return things afterward. I say this both as someone who is picky enough to have had returned a gift (a heart-shaped pendant that he didn't realize was heart-shaped - he just thought it was "swirly" like the Art Nouveau stuff I like) and someone who has unfortunately had to return a lot of stuff (mokume gane pocket knife, lambswool sweater that was "too thin," etc.) Here's the thing: if you look at my husband's returns vs. mine, I have "quality" on my side. It totally doesn't matter. There is no Objective Court of Good Gift-Giving. The question lies in finding something that will make your loved one happy.

I will say, there's a chance she feels like you're saying it's her taste, or like it's a subjective call on her judgement of quality (sort of like with my husband

). Are you in the neighborhood for any of these stores? Can you go and see in person, to be sure, and make it a FUN part of the engagement?

 

[Kelli]

Well, my ring is 14 kt gold "crap" too. My understanding is that it''s a little bit stronger than 18kt and easier to shine up than platinum. I don''t care about the minute differences in the amount of gold, and apparently your gf doesn''t either. Why can''t you just get her the ring she wants? It''s her ring, isn''t it?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 12/7/2009 11:42:43 PM
Author: Circe
I''m with you on this one in terms of the specifics, but ....

... you are *damned* lucky you *did* talk to her about it. If your beloved is a person of strong opinions and preferences, it is A LOT worse to try to return things afterward. I say this both as someone who is picky enough to have had returned a gift (a heart-shaped pendant that he didn''t realize was heart-shaped - he just thought it was ''swirly'' like the Art Nouveau stuff I like) and someone who has unfortunately had to return a lot of stuff (mokume gane pocket knife, lambswool sweater that was ''too thin,'' etc.) Here''s the thing: if you look at my husband''s returns vs. mine, I have ''quality'' on my side. It totally doesn''t matter. There is no Objective Court of Good Gift-Giving. The question lies in finding something that will make your loved one happy.

I will say, there''s a chance she feels like you''re saying it''s her taste, or like it''s a subjective call on her judgement of quality (sort of like with my husband

). Are you in the neighborhood for any of these stores? Can you go and see in person, to be sure, and make it a FUN part of the engagement?

Ditto ditto ditto ditto big fat ditto to all of this! And LOL.

 

[outatouch0]

It sounds like the diamond may not be so bad afterall and your price, especially a B&M is quite reasonable actually. Some of your assessments on value for price are just as questionable as hers.
The ring/setting is intricate and detailed - such things are expensive.
You say you "THINK" you should be getting 18K gold for that price... Based on WHAT? Data? comparison shopping? You may have some of your own emotions driving your perception here too.
Your biggest misjudgment may be the diamond in the ruff you have in her. Not all guys have benefit of a woman that comes out and says exactly what they want to be happy. Them fellas just have to guess... How do you think that works out?
My advice at this point is to apologize for being an ass and make that girl happy. Know this, if she is not happy then nobody is happy.

 

[LGK]

Date: 12/7/2009 11:05:36 PM
Author: tulip928
Wow, you say Whiteflash could make this ring for you and it would just be a matter of days difference? In otherwords, it would be the very ring she wants, with a better quality diamond? Geez, to me this is a no brainer. You could even go with the exact size stone as the Helzberg ring.

Is December 29 carved in stone? What''s a few days and a new plan? She would still be getting the ring she wants with the Whiteflash ring. IMHO both of you would be happy.
$6000 is a lot of money, and I''m sure you''ve worked hard for it.

I guess I''m seeing this different than the majority here. She *would* get the ring she wants.

I don''t know the logistics of your locations - is that what''s causing the need to speed this transaction? Seems a shame to me. After all, she is a Lady in Waiting. Patience is a virtue.

Yeah, I''m not really on board with the whole idea that it''s written in stone that an e-ring is 100% the girl''s decision; yes, a girl should love her e-ring, but the man buying it should be allowed to have an opinion, and compromise is definitely important in relationships. My and my husband''s approach was pretty much about finding a ring we *both* loved. That was very important to me, to know he loved what he gave me as much as I do, so I guess I''m just totally failing to relate to your GF''s position. I can''t imagine fighting with a BF who was sweet enough to carefully research such an important purchase, and had opinions of his own to contribute, especially when you can get the same exact setting custom made. That disconnect makes it hard for me to even really say anything other than... sorry! Wish you the best of luck. I don''t know what to say other than, well, if she''s totally 110% sure she''s made up her mind and your opinion isn''t important to her- and she''s upset you over the whole thing- you don''t have much choice here I guess. Just get the thing, make her happy and move on- I''m really not sure what else you can do at this point, and I''d be feeling a bit frustrated if I were you too. (I am definitely not trying to bash your GF, but I am definitely scratching my head in confusion a bit.)

It''s not like you found some horridly masculine looking ring and decided you were going to get that for her and to heck with what she liked- you''ve been trying pretty dang hard to find the exact same looking ring but with better quality, and I think that shows you have definitely had her likes and dislikes in mind.

For what it''s worth, yeah, 18K would be nice but 14K is a very nice, traditional alloy, and I see plenty of antique rings nearly 100 years old that are 14K and still in great shape- it basically wears the same as platinum or 18K over the long haul.

 

[HVVS]

If you get all twisted up over this, then you are headed for big troubles down the road.

Really. I don't think the guy is "being an ass" at all. He did research, and comparison shopping, and some competitive analysis.

From the school of hard knocks: Now's the time to take a good hard look at her, and her thought processes, and decide whether the stupidity is just an isolated incident, or she just is one of those who never bother to study a situation and think things through. I married a dimwit man that I had to babysit and do the thinking for. He ran us about $40k into credit card debt, not to mention would not hold a job. Children get only half of their genes from you, so be careful who you pick.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 12/8/2009 12:59:29 AM
Author: LittleGreyKitten

Date: 12/7/2009 11:05:36 PM

Author: tulip928

Wow, you say Whiteflash could make this ring for you and it would just be a matter of days difference? In otherwords, it would be the very ring she wants, with a better quality diamond? Geez, to me this is a no brainer. You could even go with the exact size stone as the Helzberg ring.


Is December 29 carved in stone? What''s a few days and a new plan? She would still be getting the ring she wants with the Whiteflash ring. IMHO both of you would be happy.

$6000 is a lot of money, and I''m sure you''ve worked hard for it.


I guess I''m seeing this different than the majority here. She *would* get the ring she wants.


I don''t know the logistics of your locations - is that what''s causing the need to speed this transaction? Seems a shame to me. After all, she is a Lady in Waiting. Patience is a virtue.

Yeah, I''m not really on board with the whole idea that it''s written in stone that an e-ring is 100% the girl''s decision; yes, a girl should love her e-ring, but the man buying it should be allowed to have an opinion, and compromise is definitely important in relationships. My and my husband''s approach was pretty much about finding a ring we *both* loved. That was very important to me, to know he loved what he gave me as much as I do, so I guess I''m just totally failing to relate to your GF''s position. I can''t imagine fighting with a BF who was sweet enough to carefully research such an important purchase, and had opinions of his own to contribute, especially when you can get the same exact setting custom made. That disconnect makes it hard for me to even really say anything other than... sorry! Wish you the best of luck. I don''t know what to say other than, well, if she''s totally 110% sure she''s made up her mind and your opinion isn''t important to her- and she''s upset you over the whole thing- you don''t have much choice here I guess. Just get the thing, make her happy and move on- I''m really not sure what else you can do at this point, and I''d be feeling a bit frustrated if I were you too. (I am definitely not trying to bash your GF, but I am definitely scratching my head in confusion a bit.)


It''s not like you found some horridly masculine looking ring and decided you were going to get that for her and to heck with what she liked- you''ve been trying pretty dang hard to find the exact same looking ring but with better quality, and I think that shows you have definitely had her likes and dislikes in mind.


For what it''s worth, yeah, 18K would be nice but 14K is a very nice, traditional alloy, and I see plenty of antique rings nearly 100 years old that are 14K and still in great shape- it basically wears the same as platinum or 18K over the long haul.

I have to agree with everything LGK said on this one - sorry, your GF''s arguing just doesn''t "compute" for me at all.
She can get the ring design and diamond shape she likes, but custom made for her (more special) and of higher quality - what''s to argue with

I also agree with the idea that the guy should at least have a say and be content with his purchase of an ering. From your post, it feels you could have a lil resentment if you end up paying 5k for the "crappy" Helzberg one (no one flame me, just para-phrasing), which would not be helpful for anyone.

I like the idea of trying again to educate, perhaps with a different approach like the GOG videos or a visit to SMTR to ogle the Whiteflash pieces and their very happy owners?
Clearly the "technical specs" aspect doesn''t really matter to her, so you could try a more visual/emotional approach?

again, good luck and I hope you come to a resolution you are both content with.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I don''t think I umderstand your girlfriend at all. Why wouldn''t she want a better ring for a cheaper price? I mean it''s not even a "designer" brand which I know some people will pay a premium for. Honestly, I could imagine you being upset for a while to have to buy a ring you weren''t happy with because of irrational/emotional thinking on your girlfriend''s part.

Haha ... I say go the whiteflash route and see if she even notices.