Moral ??--Do you tell someone their spouse is cheating?

[trillionaire]

Date: 8/10/2008 9:49:47 PM
Author: AGBF





I am not sure anyone should tell anyone else anything. I guess I am of the school (posting earlier in the thread) that believes that on some level your brother-in-law knows. Before you do anything, watch the DVDs of ''Jules and Jim'' and ''César and Rosalie''. I cannot even recall the former, although I do recall being much struck by it, but I clearly remember the latter. I would let the idea that relationships are complex and bizarre percolate before you do anything to intervene.


I wish you the very best.


Deborah

I am going to make a weird analogy here, but at some point, my hormones went wacky, and I started sprouting random unwanted facial hair. (I know, TMI, right?) ANYway, I knew it was there, and I tried to hide it, but it got worse and worse. I didn''t talk about it, and pretended it wasn''t there, even though it was. It was AFTER someone commented, out of concern, not maliciousness, that I began to address the issue. AND I AM SO MUCH HAPPIER!

People ARE very complex, and sometimes we need that little push to start addressing the real problems in our lives. Personal and public denial are often not the same thing.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 8/10/2008 11:10:45 PM

Author: trillionaire


I am going to make a weird analogy here, but at some point, my hormones went wacky, and I started sprouting random unwanted facial hair. (I know, TMI, right?) ANYway, I knew it was there, and I tried to hide it, but it got worse and worse. I didn''t talk about it, and pretended it wasn''t there, even though it was. It was AFTER someone commented, out of concern, not maliciousness, that I began to address the issue. AND I AM SO MUCH HAPPIER!

People ARE very complex, and sometimes we need that little push to start addressing the real problems in our lives. Personal and public denial are often not the same thing.

As the rabbi in the joke said, you may be right, too.


Deborah

 

[LuckyTexan]

That is some JERRY SPRINGER SH*T if I ever heard it!!!

My advice... is to let him find out. I''d be willing to bet that he knows something''s not right, and is dying to find some facts to prove it!

That is so sad about the kids. No offense to you... you aren''t HER... but gosh!! How trashy is that!

 

[shelly228]

I am very sorry you have been put in this situation. I am in a similar place myself.
My issue-
I was friends with a woman who is married. Rumors have been going around for a year she is cheating. I defended her without wavering. Then, about 6 months ago, I found out she cheated. I confronted her. I know her husband & he is a good man. They have been married 9 years.
She let me defend her knowing she was lying. I felt betrayed.
She said it only happened once, it was a mistake, etc. And she is now pregnant with her husband''s child (via invetro fertilization). She has 3 kids from a previous marriage. This is her current husband''s 1st child.
I told her I would not tell him since she seemed genuinely remorseful. Since it only happened the one time....
Since then, I have found out she has had multiple affairs, one night stands, and carries on cyber affairs. I am in possession of pics & a video -all X-rated that she sent to multiple men. I don''t speak to her anymore.
But, I am carrying about this burden. Should I tell her husband?
He is a good man, good husband and a father to her 3 children.
At first, my thinking is no. He & the children would be the victims. But, she continues one affair & all the cyber stuff & she is pregnant. She tried to talk to me a few weeks ago to see if I would continue to keep her secret. I told her what she is doing is wrong. She says if I tell her husband, it will put stress on her & she is concerned she will lose her baby.
I think she is just trying to play on my emotions and use the threat of the baby to keep my quiet. She is very manipulative. She also never agreed to stop cheating.

 

[krispi]

Well, as someone who has been cheated on in the past, I would want to know.

When we were in the process of divorcing, my ex told me that he had cheated on me before the wedding and that at least one of his friends knew about it. That same friend was one of his groomsmen. I understand why he never told me about it, but I wish I had known. My ex-husband knew very well that if I had found out, I would have broken up with him on the spot and never would have gone through with the wedding. When I learned that his friend had known all along, I felt really humiliated and disrespected. I''m sure my ex thought it was a one-night only thing at the time (he claimed he was nervous about getting married and wanted to make sure!

) but knowing that he cheated and breaking off the wedding could have saved me a lot of heartache down the road.

Four years later, my ex went on to have a cross-country affair with a girl he met on the internet. He emptied his retirement plan, spent a lot of his (and my!) money on trips to see her, lied to everyone he knew about interviewing for a new job and potentially moving to the other side of the country, and a lot of other messed up things. That time, I ended up accidentally finding an instant message conversation between the two of them. Things had degraded so much that he was lying to everyone he knew, including his friends and family.

If I had known from the beginning that he wasn''t really feeling ready to get married, it could have saved us a lot of heartache, but for whatever reason he wasn''t able to just come out and tell me. I know this is a very different situation, but you never know what it could spiral into for the BIL and the neices from this point (like the inappropriate dressing - things could get even worse). At least if they know, they can pick up the pieces and begin the process of moving on. There''s no doubt that it''s going to hurt them when they find out, but then they''ll be equipped to recover. Right now, they are just the victims of her actions. Knowing will empower them to do something about it.

Also, on the idea of the anonymous note - if someone had anonymously tipped me off that my husband was cheating, I doubt I would have believed it. If the BIL really does think she loves him and that they have a strong relationship (which is what I thought all along), he''ll probably view it as a prank. But if it''s a person he knows he can trust coming to him without any hurtful motives, he''ll probably be more likely to take the info for what it is. I have to admit I''m guessing at this point since I didn''t have the luxury of being informed. But I don''t think I would have put much stock in an anonymous letter.

 

[purrfectpear]

You know, every now and then I think "hmmm, 1 post and it''s a Jerry Springer Zinger". But that''s just me being cynical, right? I mean it''s perfectly normal for this poster to be in possession of pics and an X rated video

 

[AGBF]

Date: 8/11/2008 1:42:04 PM

Author: purrfectpear

I mean it''s perfectly normal for this poster to be in possession of pics and an X rated video

Which poster, purrfectpear? Obviously I wasn''t reading the thread carefully enough! Either that or I am missing an allusion. At any rate, I need help interpreting your posting.





Deb

 

[princesss]

Date: 8/11/2008 1:15:12 PM
Author: shelly228
I am very sorry you have been put in this situation. I am in a similar place myself.
My issue-
I was friends with a woman who is married. Rumors have been going around for a year she is cheating. I defended her without wavering. Then, about 6 months ago, I found out she cheated. I confronted her. I know her husband & he is a good man. They have been married 9 years.
She let me defend her knowing she was lying. I felt betrayed.
She said it only happened once, it was a mistake, etc. And she is now pregnant with her husband''s child (via invetro fertilization). She has 3 kids from a previous marriage. This is her current husband''s 1st child.
I told her I would not tell him since she seemed genuinely remorseful. Since it only happened the one time....
Since then, I have found out she has had multiple affairs, one night stands, and carries on cyber affairs. I am in possession of pics & a video -all X-rated that she sent to multiple men. I don''t speak to her anymore.
But, I am carrying about this burden. Should I tell her husband?
He is a good man, good husband and a father to her 3 children.
At first, my thinking is no. He & the children would be the victims. But, she continues one affair & all the cyber stuff & she is pregnant. She tried to talk to me a few weeks ago to see if I would continue to keep her secret. I told her what she is doing is wrong. She says if I tell her husband, it will put stress on her & she is concerned she will lose her baby.
I think she is just trying to play on my emotions and use the threat of the baby to keep my quiet. She is very manipulative. She also never agreed to stop cheating.

This post, AGBF.

PS. PP - I love that. "Jerry Springer Zinger" That''s fun to say!

 

[AGBF]

Date: 8/11/2008 4:07:48 PM

Author: princesss

This post, AGBF.

Thank you, princess. I do not mind admitting that after reading a few sentences carefully, I skimmed that posting. It just didn''t seem germane to the main thread. Kudos to you for being such a serious reader, however, and again I thank you for taking the time to point out the posting to me!

Deborah, lazy but grateful

 

[RBlover]

grrrrr - I just lost my entire post!

Ok I''ll paraphrase

hairgirl - Firslty let me say how sorry I am you have been put in this awful situation, I cannot imagine the burden you are carrying around with you.

As have been previously noted you have been given lots of advice which falls on both sides of the fence, the pros V cons.
My advice to you is do what YOU feel is the right thing for you ( and judging from your previous posts you have a gut feeling about what you are going to do). We can all speculate until the cows come home about the if''s buts and maybe''s but the truth is none of us know how this is going to play out. Only you are know the people involved and how they might react to any relevation. Yes there are children involved but only you know their personalities and how they may respond.

If you feel the best thing is to tell BIL then do - I know you won''t have taken that desicion lightly and you will have taken all aspects of the situation into account and vice versa

Biggest outgoing hugs

 

[princesss]

Haha, Deb, I only read it because PP''s line about the "Jerry Springer Zinger" got me interested and I had to see what she was talking about.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

I have been following this thread and am very concerned about some of the things I am reading. I just want to throw something elce into the pot here. The behavior of the year old is very disturbing. They are red flag signs for emotional and/or sexual abuse. If she is aware of her mother''s behavior when they are at the "friends" house (by hearing stuff in the next room, or being directly exposed to it), it could be considered a form of child abuse (sexual vs emotional). Do you think she is leaving the children alone with these guys??? Don''t want to be totally negative here, but this really worries me.

If hairgirl were to go to a professional, they might feel the need to report what the children are being exposed to, even if it is just emotional abuse. Just something to think about.

 

[hairgirl95]

HI everyone--

Sorry for being incognito the past day--I am having some computer issues

and it wasn''t letting me access my internet!! I hate when this happens!

Anywho--just to update all of you, I am having lunch with my sister tomorrow. I am putting my foot down and telling her that any information pertaining to her multiple affairs is her own burden to carry from here on out. I am telling her I want to hear and know nothing further about her immoral activities. As for telling her husband, I still working on the plan for that. I think its something I have to plan flawlessly since there are so many people that will be affected by this. Rest assured, I am taking all of your wonderful posts and advice into account here when deciding just how to proceed with this. I have had many thoughts, but I need to get them organized into a concrete arrangement. I hope this makes sense--I feel like I am rambling here!

Firecracker---could you further elaborate as to why you might suspect sexual/physical abuse? I ask this because it is something I have had as a worst case scenario fear, and there are some weird things that my 4 year old niece does that I cannot really explain. I''ll post some of those things later. Can you tell me some things that I should be looking for? I will say this, one weird thing she does is put her finger into her rectum. This has happened a few times, as recently as around 3 months ago. I was worried about it when my sister told me, and I STRONGLY encouraged her to take my niece to see a psychologist, but my sister refused. Really frustrated me. After reading your reply though, it makes me think and really worry. Any other info you could give me would be really great. There is several men (her boyfriends but family friends and relatives as well) that do spend time around both my nieces. I just hope and pray that these affairs are the worst things going on. If something was happening to either of those girls, I don''t know WHAT I would do. It would not be pretty. Thanks in advance for your help.

RBlover--thanks sweetie--I really appreciate your support. I posted on your topic earlier as well, before my internet booted me off again! I hope you and your sis are getting things worked out as well. I haven''t had a chance to follow up with your post yet.

Princess--as always, thank you for your continued support. You are so sweet!

Krispi---were you married to my ex-husband??!! WOW, our stories are scarily similar! I think we saw some similarities in earlier posts if I remember right. Just know that I am sending you big hugs for the road you had to travel as well. Its a struggle as you know, but you and I are strong girls--and the struggles make us stronger.

Shelly228--sounds like you have a full plate with your friend! Good luck with all that as well. Its not a fun burden.

LuckyTexan---yep, serious Springer S*IT!! My scandalous sister kinda makes me feel like a piece of trash just thinking about what she has done. The sad part is she was raised WAAAAAY better than she is acting. She has no excuse. We have parents who were great role-models and there is no reason for her to act like this. But yes, I got a serious chuckle out of the Springer comment. I have referred to this situation by that name maaaaaany times.

Miracles----girl, I cannot thank you enough! You have been such a great support to me on this thread. You are truly a smart and compassionate woman. I am so fortunate to have your wonderful advice here. My sympathies to your friend in his situation. I am so glad you talked to him and passed it along to me. Also, I hope the reunion went GREAT!! Let me know if you used the extensions!

Freke, Diamondfan, Lara, AGBF--thank you all as well for your continued support. I really appreciate everything I have read on here and all the great advice. You are all great!!

I''ll let you all know how lunch goes tomorrow. My hands are sweating already just thinking about how this will go. I promise to post and catch you up after lunch tomorrow.

 

[diamondfan]

Hairgirl, good luck.

I know this is very tough and scary for you. I do not blame you for dreading it, but it is like a big pink elephant in the room.

Please know I wish I could tell you it will all work out well, but this is life changing terrible information and there will be consequences. Doing the right thing is not always easy as you are finding. I just think of her little girls being around these men, and maybe being subjected to something terrible. And your one niece is already really showing such inappropriate sexual behavior that clinically IS worrisome...so I think no matter what, damage has been done already, and you are in a terrible bind.

Good luck, and try to tell her you wish you did not know what you know, but that she has opened the door to it, and that you want her to get help, this is not just about punishing her.

 

[miraclesrule]

Good luck hairgirl. I know how difficult this is and how much guilt you may feel after talking to your sister. I hope that it is leveled by the relief of speaking your truth to you. I usually find that I have to put my thoughts in writing when approaching this type of conversation, so that I don't let the other person's emotional reaction get me sidetracked from specific points I wanted to to make.

I think you are absolutely doing the right thing by going directly to your sister first. The strategy with the husband is far more complicated and being cautious is the prudent thing to do.

p.s. I did wear the extensions. Not all of them, just a few. They need to be cut shorter. I dressed up 70's style. It was fun.

:::::::::::::Tossing heaps and heaps of PS dust your way :::::::::::::::::::::

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 8/12/2008 1:06:28 AM
Author: hairgirl95

Firecracker---could you further elaborate as to why you might suspect sexual/physical abuse? I ask this because it is something I have had as a worst case scenario fear, and there are some weird things that my 4 year old niece does that I cannot really explain. I''ll post some of those things later. Can you tell me some things that I should be looking for? I will say this, one weird thing she does is put her finger into her rectum. This has happened a few times, as recently as around 3 months ago. I was worried about it when my sister told me, and I STRONGLY encouraged her to take my niece to see a psychologist, but my sister refused. Really frustrated me. After reading your reply though, it makes me think and really worry. Any other info you could give me would be really great. There is several men (her boyfriends but family friends and relatives as well) that do spend time around both my nieces. I just hope and pray that these affairs are the worst things going on. If something was happening to either of those girls, I don''t know WHAT I would do. It would not be pretty. Thanks in advance for your help.

I almost can''t breath just reading this. For the sake of these girls, it sounds imperative that you intervene immediately. I really pray that your worst fears are unfounded, but please, please help these girls get to a stable environment.

I am absolutely ill about this.

 

[FrekeChild]

Ditto to trillionaire''s post...

 

[luckystar112]

It freaked me out too...so I googled it. Apparently it can be considered normal for a toddler to do it since they are discovering their body and all (sort of like sticking their finger in their ear or nose). But on the other hand, this little girl is four...not sure if that is normal at that age.

 

[miraclesrule]

Kids do wierd things. I wouldn't be alarmed by this act in isolation. The imagination can conjure up all sort of wicked evil tormenting thoughts. Let's try not to let ourselves get histrionic and support hairgirl in taking one step at a time. She is already tormented enough without venturing down this path at this point in time.

Hang in there hairgirl!!

 

[D2B]

Well, something has to be done for the girls - he needs to be told pronto.

As a parent, and someone who reads a lot of parenting stuff and is on parenting forums, a number of scenarios could be happening.

1. it can be normal for toddlers discovering their bodies - but at age 4 I would wonder if she is regressing to infantile behaviour because she is in an emotionally volitile place with her mums friends and the atmosphere at home cant be the best.

2. It could be normal (rare but possibly the case)

3. It could be signs of abuse.

without wanting to go into all the details google sign of abuse in children.

Either way, a health professional needs to see the child and the husband needs to be told .

forget all the moralising about should you tell or not,

AS a parent I would be ROPABLE and serioiously be Furious beyond belief, if my child went along to my spouses lovers house and waited whilst the deed was done next door, let alone the possible harmful emotional/physical stuff that can traumatise a child.

As a parent, this needs to stop. Forget all the other dilly dally wishy washy crap, sorry, but he needs to be told, he is the father of children who attend their mothers lovers meetings, how much more needs to be said.

The mother is not having a discrete affair but in danger of permantely scaring her children by taking them along as cover to shady peoples places.

Do it now. JMHO

D2b

Sorry for getting emotional about it, before I thought about this from the view of an adult in a relationship, NOW I am thinking about it as a parent, and OMG I would be furious if this was happening to me. He might have inklings about the affair, he might not, but if he is any normal father, no way in H*LL would he even remotely consider it OK for her to drag his children along to this.

I am so sorry for your situation.

 

[D2B]

Hmm, thinking about it further. If i as a parent am getting so emotional about it, his repsonse my be very volitile, definately have the children away as you were thinking, perhaphs a weekend sleepover with grandparents etc. and have someone with you. If you decide to go the e-mail letter way, enough specific detail will mean he wont be able to turn a blind eye.

Oh what a mess you are in, it is so unfair that you and your husand are caught up in someone elses horrible mess of their own making.

d2b

 

[AGBF]

Date: 8/12/2008 2:56:41 AM

Author: miraclesrule

Kids do wierd things. I wouldn''t be alarmed by this act in isolation. The imagination can conjure up all sort of wicked evil tormenting thoughts. Let''s try not to let ourselves get histrionic and support hairgirl in taking one step at a time. She is already tormented enough without venturing down this path at this point in time.

miraclesrule, I agree with you completely. Hairgirl has to take one step at a time. We can stand beside her, but pushing her into too many directions at once is just overwhelming, not helpful. Stick with us, Hairgirl. If, in time, you feel a need to look into possible abuse, by then one or both of the parents may be on board. If not, you will be in a different place and more prepared to ask for help in investigating. One does not want to go to unsophisticated people to investigate allegations of abuse; they tend to take children first and ask questions later...often coming to the wrong conclusions when they ask questions! Child protective services are very overstretched and the workers not well enough trained. But we were supposed to postpone this discussion! Sorry!

Deb

 

[princesss]

Hairgirl, I think you''re definitely doing the right thing by speaking with your sister. You''re obviously very dedicated to the welfare of your neices, and I really commend you on taking the time to do this right and make sure their lives are safe and happy.

 

[Skippy123]

Hairgirl, I am sending you a big hug; I can''t imagine all the emotions you must be feeling. Also, keeping everyone in my prayers.

 

[risingsun]

Speaking with your sister first is appropriate. I does seem, however, that informing her husband is becoming more of a reality and a possibily a necessity. Now that her daughter has become involved, the situation has changed. Express concern for her family and your fears for their emotionally safety. Encourage her to seek help so she will be able to recognize the damage being done and attempt to make an honest effort to deal with the consequences. If she refuses, I would tell her that I can no longer remain silent due to the risk to her family. This is a very difficult situation and I''m not sure there is any "correct" answer. Do the best you can.

 

[bebe]

I agree, what a horrible mess.

My 1st thoughts are the children. Is it possible they are seeing inappropriate behavior or videos at home?
They need to be protected at all costs.

Your sister is addicted to the "highs" she is getting from her affair partners. She needs therapy fast.
In therapy she hopefully will discover "why" she is doing this. And why she is willing to risk all to feed her addictions.

You are doing the right thing by talking with her. This will not change overnight, but someone has to speak up.
I am truly concerned about the little girls. Best of luck in getting through to your sister, but she may not realize
how destructive her actions are because she is blinded by the feel goods from her addictive behavior.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 8/12/2008 3:02:24 AM
Author: D2B
Well, something has to be done for the girls - he needs to be told pronto.

As a parent, and someone who reads a lot of parenting stuff and is on parenting forums, a number of scenarios could be happening.

1. it can be normal for toddlers discovering their bodies - but at age 4 I would wonder if she is regressing to infantile behaviour because she is in an emotionally volitile place with her mums friends and the atmosphere at home cant be the best.

2. It could be normal (rare but possibly the case)

3. It could be signs of abuse.

without wanting to go into all the details google sign of abuse in children.

Either way, a health professional needs to see the child and the husband needs to be told .

forget all the moralising about should you tell or not,

AS a parent I would be ROPABLE and serioiously be Furious beyond belief, if my child went along to my spouses lovers house and waited whilst the deed was done next door, let alone the possible harmful emotional/physical stuff that can traumatise a child.

As a parent, this needs to stop. Forget all the other dilly dally wishy washy crap, sorry, but he needs to be told, he is the father of children who attend their mothers lovers meetings, how much more needs to be said.

The mother is not having a discrete affair but in danger of permantely scaring her children by taking them along as cover to shady peoples places.

Do it now. JMHO

D2b

Sorry for getting emotional about it, before I thought about this from the view of an adult in a relationship, NOW I am thinking about it as a parent, and OMG I would be furious if this was happening to me. He might have inklings about the affair, he might not, but if he is any normal father, no way in H*LL would he even remotely consider it OK for her to drag his children along to this.

I am so sorry for your situation.

AMEN! And I am not a parent. Seriously, there is no doubt in my mind that this man needs to be told for the sake of those girls. I''m not sure why anyone believes that being silent on this matter would benefit them more (I really couldn''t give a rat''s booty about confidentiality between sisters, there are CHILDREN!!). The truth can hurt but you can heal from truth. Nothing good comes from lying. Especially not in this situation.

Good luck hairgirl!!

 

[diamondfan]

I think kids can do weird things and it does not always mean abuse, but given all of the circumstances that are going on I would not ignore it. You cannot just gloss over it, but I would not assume abuse from the outset, though she certainly is exposing them to things that are not great.

I would voice my concerns to her. Though to be honest, if she is bringing them around these men, her judgment is not so great in my mind...again, though, before a series of events if unleashed, I would check it out first...because once you start that process it is major, and I would want to make sure about things before I went down the path with children''s services..but keep your eyes open certainly and be prepared for making calls if need be.

 

[princesss]

You know what just struck me? She''s taking her kids to the BF''s house and leaving them unattended while she has her shennanigans. A 4 year old and a 2 year old are being left by themselves to entertain themselves. In a house that isn''t decorated or protected with little kids in mind. There are so many things that could go wrong and injure those kids it''s not even funny.

 

[miraclesrule]

Please, I think the point has been made. I used to volunteer as a CASA, a court appointed special advocate for children in the foster care system. The state often overreacts and trust me, there is nothing more traumatic than to be stipped from your parents, especially when there is little proof that there was actual abuse.

And if you think the state makes a good parent. I ask you to think again. I can go on and on about horror stories. It was one of the reason that I quit to go work with StandUp4Kids. There I dealt with really messed up kids who were traumatized from having to be wrung through the system.

Please, there is no evidence that these kids are being traumatized yet. It''s early, they are young, hairgirl needs to take one step at a time.

We all care deeply about these children. But merely being in the same house when adults are having sex is not going to do lasting damage to the kids. If that were the case, no married couple could have sex in their homes while the kids were busy playing video games or napping. Just because this man is carrying on an affair with a married women doesn''t make him a child molester either.

I am certain that all these things will be looked into once the situation develops and the husband becomes aware of the wife''s activities, but I really think we need to stop this for hairgirls sake. I am begging you, let her take her steps one at a time. hairgirls emotional/mental health is at risk here too. She needs our support right now. I think the seeds have been planted. We don''t need to force the bulb to sprout.