Moral ??--Do you tell someone their spouse is cheating?

[HollyS]

She is your sister. She confided in you. You don''t have to approve; and you are in a position to influence her -- as long as you don''t ''tattle'' on her.

If anyone is going to tell her husband, it had better be someone who is not a family member. Blood relative or not. Besides, if she keeps this up, the truth will come out. Just wait, an implosion is right around the corner.

If you can''t stand being around the situation, remove yourself and tell her why. Be absolutely clear with her that you do not agree with her actions, and will not help her lie to her husband. Tell her that you will no longer be someone she can ''tell her dirty little secrets to''. Maybe if she has no one to share her spicy details with, it will be less fun for her.

 

[luckystar112]

I honestly cannot think of anything more vile or disrespectful to your own child than sleeping with man that isn''t the father of your baby while you are pregnant. How extremely twisted and disgusting is that?
Coincidentally, DH and I had a conversation about this last night when we overheard some guy at a restaurant talk all about his sexual escapades with a pregnant girl who was "about to pop at any time".

Seriously, what is WITH people today?
How could any woman or man think that is okay?

As for how to tell him--I''m interested to see how you do it. Have you thought about enlisting the help of those already familiar with the lie?

 

[Isabelle]

Date: 8/9/2008 4:08:41 AM
Author: miraclesrule

Date: 8/8/2008 11:02:26 PM

Author: Isabelle

Hairgirl, this is a very serious situation and you should not do or say anything until you have sought the advice of a professional. My first step would be to talk to a counselor about the situation, preferably one who deals with infidelity and sex addiction. I would then talk directly to your parents and inform them of what you know. Your sister sounds like she is addicted to infidelity in a sense. She might have picked up the STD from another person, not the regular boyfriend, which means she could be engaging in very bad behavior with multiple men. The ripple effect on your entire family if you broadcast this information to her husband could be devastating. I believe that with the help and guidance of an expert you and your parents ought to confront your sister with her behavior and urge her to seek professional help immediately to combat this horrific problem she has. If she gets the help she desperately needs, she will eventually be able to deal with whether or not it makes sense to disclose her behavior to her husband.


Secondly, you owe it to yourself to tell your sister in explicit terms that you will not under any circumstances be a confidant to her regarding infidelities ever again. If she ever attempts to speak to you about her affairs, I would hang up the phone or leave if she is conveying information in person. If your sister refuses to get help, after she knows that you and your parents are united in this issue, then you can collectively determine what is in the best interest of THE CHILDREN. And again, this is best decided with the help of a professional who deals in these issues. Whatever steps are taken or not taken with respect to informing the BIL, these are best done under the guidance of someone who works in the field and who will be aware of how all this could affect her children. The children are the most important people in this whole thing.


If I were you, I would view your sister''s affairs the same as you would an alcoholic. She is an addict, and possibly has a narcissistic personality disorder as well, and she can''t control herself without help. You and your parents must do an intervention of sorts, with the help of a professional, (I can''t stress that enough). Do not under any circumstances go to your BIL on your own.

Isabelle, I have tried very hard not to respond to your post, but I can''t help myself. I think it is an insult to mature adults to call the described behavior an addiction that should be treated like a addict. There is nothing that indicates she is merely a sex addict. By assigning a diagnostic category to it, it is almost as though it somehow excuses her behavior. All addicts choose to be addicts unless the properties of a chemical is physically addicting, not merely psysiologically addictove pr psychologically addicting.


I just feel, personally, that we are all capable of free will and that she is engaging in activity that she knows is wrong. If she didn''t know it was wrong, she wouldn''t be hiding it. Most alcoholics don''t hide it...they get drunk and it''s obvious. Sometimes they attempt to hide it, but it''s usually clear as they can''t and don''t hide it.


I think that what surfgirls sister is doing cannot possibly considered a result of an addiction worthy of that type of intervention. Lyingg and cheating is a compulsive personality disorder, but it is a conscious choice. Applying a label gives them an excuse for their behavior and they can claim it can''t be helped. That''s a crock of BS. So now every deceptive cheater gets thier own DSMIII diagnostic category. I don''t think so. If you breach a contract in a tort, it wouldn''t fly that your lying deception was a result of a medically recognized disease therefore you can''t be responsible and you''re a victim of this horrible disease. That is rubbish, again, in my opinion.

Well Miracles, let''s just say that I strongly disagree both with your opinion and your analysis. IMO, the issue really transcends whether or not it is wrong and outrageous what the sister is doing. I think that''s indisputable. All of this will have long term consequences to the sister''s children, her parents, Hairgirl, and not to mention the BIL and his family. Since there are families involved, a better approach would be to seek the help of a professional who can guide Hairgirl''s family on how to tackle the issue. I am not suggesting the BIL should not be told; I am simply suggesting that a better approach would be to confront the sister first with a united front and with the help of a counselor. And I would add to you that your legal analysis is irrelevant, to put it bluntly. Hairgirl''s sister is not on trial. She is in a marriage and she is doing things that are destructive to her children and her husband, and herself for that matter. The reverberating effects of how this is handled will impact the innocent children, so it needs to be taken on intelligently, with equal concern given to what is likely to bring about the best result for the children involved. Proving a point is NOT the goal here. At least it shouldn''t be. The sister needs to be informed that Hairgirl will no longer be her confidante, and she needs to get some help, but I simply think that going straight to the husband FIRST is not as likely to be constructive. One thing I think we can agree on though is that the sister has created this situation through her choices, and IMO her possible addiction to destructive behaviors. I wish this family peace and strength during this sad time.

 

[Isabelle]

Date: 8/8/2008 8:15:46 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Obviously we''d all like to burn this woman at the stake for being a lying cheating adultress, but please explain to me how we manage that without hurting the children?


Please explain how telling will in any way improve those girls lives?


Sexually transmitted diseases are just that, SEXUALLY transmitted. Someone said something about the kids being exposed...to what? They aren''t going to have sex with either parents. You cannot catch aids from sharing a sip of pepsi. This is a straw man argument to try to ''protect'' the kids and ignore the real damage to their lives when they are in the middle of angry parents fighting it out

Sure that might not be their bio dad, but do you think THEY would care? They love this man, he''s been there since the day they were born. They call him daddy and in every way he has been their dad. Which of you actually believes it will improve their lives to doubt that now? Really?

Seen any Jerry Springer? Have you EVER seen a kid say ''Wow, it''s great that guy that I lived with and called dad isn''t really my dad. Bring on the stranger, I''m dying to know him, after all he''s my bio pop''

It''s about heartache folks, not about morality or ethics. Let this house of cards fall on it''s own merit and everyone will have to pick up the pieces as best they can. Don''t be the CAUSE of the collapse. Yes, the one telling will be the cause, because those kids still have a home - it''s a secret until someone spills it all out in it''s ugliness. There is no way these girls will come out of this better off. NONE.

I find that I agree with almost the entirety of every post you ever write. LOL

 

[Isabelle]

Date: 8/9/2008 10:27:05 AM
Author: purrfectpear
You said you were going to tell a friend of BIL''s and have him tell him? I''m sorry but if you are going to inform the BIL I don''t really think it''s appropriate to involve ANOTHER person. You and your husband are the ones with the knowledge, at least have the courage not to spread it beyond yourselves and your BIL. I think your husband should have the conversation, or do it anonymously. I also agree that it''s a good idea to talk this over with a trained family therapist prior to going ahead.

Spot on. Both counts. Imagine all the people the friend will broadcast this information to as well. "In the children''s interest"? Absolutely not.

 

[movie zombie]

the husband may not appreciate hearing about any of this from anyone. your husband going to him and saying just doesn''t cut it in my book.

your sister''s behavior is her behavior and if you have a problem with it, you need to address her directly, no longer be her confidant, and be very clear with her you won''t cover for her if anyone asks. if you and your husband want to do it together, fine, but he needs to speak for himself and his own knowledge and you the same. don''t drag any other friend or family member into this. you need to be responsible for your decisions regarding your actions as far as confronting her.

movie zombie

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 8/9/2008 12:42:06 PM
Author: movie zombie
the husband may not appreciate hearing about any of this from anyone. your husband going to him and saying <my wife, your sister-in-law, has told me x, y, and z> just doesn't cut it in my book.

your sister's behavior is her behavior and if you have a problem with it, you need to address her directly, no longer be her confidant, and be very clear with her you won't cover for her if anyone asks. if you and your husband want to do it together, fine, but he needs to speak for himself and his own knowledge and you the same. don't drag any other friend or family member into this. you need to be responsible for your decisions regarding your actions as far as confronting her.

movie zombie

I agree with this; I think it would be a strange for everyone if your husband tells her husband. I think you need to tell your sister to fess up or like MZ said you won't cover for her. I think is very hard for your emotional well being and I am sending you a hug and hope in the end things work out! eta: I do think a counselor would help everyone tremendously sort through all these emotions.

 

[Haven]

Date: 8/9/2008 11:45:44 AM
Author: Isabelle

Date: 8/9/2008 4:08:41 AM

Author: miraclesrule

Date: 8/8/2008 11:02:26 PM


Author: Isabelle


Hairgirl, this is a very serious situation and you should not do or say anything until you have sought the advice of a professional. My first step would be to talk to a counselor about the situation, preferably one who deals with infidelity and sex addiction. I would then talk directly to your parents and inform them of what you know. Your sister sounds like she is addicted to infidelity in a sense. She might have picked up the STD from another person, not the regular boyfriend, which means she could be engaging in very bad behavior with multiple men. The ripple effect on your entire family if you broadcast this information to her husband could be devastating. I believe that with the help and guidance of an expert you and your parents ought to confront your sister with her behavior and urge her to seek professional help immediately to combat this horrific problem she has. If she gets the help she desperately needs, she will eventually be able to deal with whether or not it makes sense to disclose her behavior to her husband.



Secondly, you owe it to yourself to tell your sister in explicit terms that you will not under any circumstances be a confidant to her regarding infidelities ever again. If she ever attempts to speak to you about her affairs, I would hang up the phone or leave if she is conveying information in person. If your sister refuses to get help, after she knows that you and your parents are united in this issue, then you can collectively determine what is in the best interest of THE CHILDREN. And again, this is best decided with the help of a professional who deals in these issues. Whatever steps are taken or not taken with respect to informing the BIL, these are best done under the guidance of someone who works in the field and who will be aware of how all this could affect her children. The children are the most important people in this whole thing.



If I were you, I would view your sister''s affairs the same as you would an alcoholic. She is an addict, and possibly has a narcissistic personality disorder as well, and she can''t control herself without help. You and your parents must do an intervention of sorts, with the help of a professional, (I can''t stress that enough). Do not under any circumstances go to your BIL on your own.

Isabelle, I have tried very hard not to respond to your post, but I can''t help myself. I think it is an insult to mature adults to call the described behavior an addiction that should be treated like a addict. There is nothing that indicates she is merely a sex addict. By assigning a diagnostic category to it, it is almost as though it somehow excuses her behavior. All addicts choose to be addicts unless the properties of a chemical is physically addicting, not merely psysiologically addictove pr psychologically addicting.



I just feel, personally, that we are all capable of free will and that she is engaging in activity that she knows is wrong. If she didn''t know it was wrong, she wouldn''t be hiding it. Most alcoholics don''t hide it...they get drunk and it''s obvious. Sometimes they attempt to hide it, but it''s usually clear as they can''t and don''t hide it.



I think that what surfgirls sister is doing cannot possibly considered a result of an addiction worthy of that type of intervention. Lyingg and cheating is a compulsive personality disorder, but it is a conscious choice. Applying a label gives them an excuse for their behavior and they can claim it can''t be helped. That''s a crock of BS. So now every deceptive cheater gets thier own DSMIII diagnostic category. I don''t think so. If you breach a contract in a tort, it wouldn''t fly that your lying deception was a result of a medically recognized disease therefore you can''t be responsible and you''re a victim of this horrible disease. That is rubbish, again, in my opinion.

Well Miracles, let''s just say that I strongly disagree both with your opinion and your analysis. IMO, the issue really transcends whether or not it is wrong and outrageous what the sister is doing. I think that''s indisputable. All of this will have long term consequences to the sister''s children, her parents, Hairgirl, and not to mention the BIL and his family. Since there are families involved, a better approach would be to seek the help of a professional who can guide Hairgirl''s family on how to tackle the issue. I am not suggesting the BIL should not be told; I am simply suggesting that a better approach would be to confront the sister first with a united front and with the help of a counselor. And I would add to you that your legal analysis is irrelevant, to put it bluntly. Hairgirl''s sister is not on trial. She is in a marriage and she is doing things that are destructive to her children and her husband, and herself for that matter. The reverberating effects of how this is handled will impact the innocent children, so it needs to be taken on intelligently, with equal concern given to what is likely to bring about the best result for the children involved. Proving a point is NOT the goal here. At least it shouldn''t be. The sister needs to be informed that Hairgirl will no longer be her confidante, and she needs to get some help, but I simply think that going straight to the husband FIRST is not as likely to be constructive. One thing I think we can agree on though is that the sister has created this situation through her choices, and IMO her possible addiction to destructive behaviors. I wish this family peace and strength during this sad time.

I agree with Isabelle, here. The concern here should not be on putting blame on the sister, but helping the family heal and move on in the best way possible.

I am not a professional counselor or psychologist, so I''m not qualified to give you any advice other than this: seek the help of a professional. There are children involved, and regardless of *why* hairgirl''s sister is doing this, you should consider the well-being of the family. Your concern should not be how to punish or blame your sister, but how to help the family.

Good luck. This is a horrible situation, and I feel for you being put in the middle of it. Adultery is a vile thing, and I hate to see a family destroyed over it.

 

[hairgirl95]

After reading the latest posts, I think I am more confused than ever. I want him to know, but I want it to be in a manner that is only about facts and people who care about him. His highschool friend is like a brother to him. I guess I was thinking that he may take it better from him than from anyone else. Afterall, the skeezy wife I have to tell him about is my sister, and I worry that would make him feel a little weird. I understand where you all are coming from though about just doing it myself. I just know that if I do that, theres serious repercussions in the end. My family is so passive its not even funny. They ignore every bad thing that could ever happen and gloss it over for appearances. I am pretty sure that if I disrupt the family harmony, I run the very real risk of being disowned. I know that sounds harsh, but my family is a little crazy! I would somehow be punished, even though I did nothing wrong. I would be going against my moms wishes and "exposing" a problem rather than hiding it. Its so frustrating. I just don''t know how to approach this anymore.......

 

[miraclesrule]

Isabelle: I am not trying to put her on trial. You misunderstand the message I am trying to make. We can all gloss over the facts for the sake of the children and for hairgirl, but this is not a marriage, it is a sham. She is a acting as a con artist.

I agree that psychological help for hairgirl may be beneficial, but why should hairgirl have to incur costs because of her sister? She can go to five different psychologists and she will get probably four or five different opinions. I know this because I work with physicians and their consultative reports everyday. It is clear that this is emotionally wrenching for hairgirl, so now it should be financially wrenching for her too? I think not.

I suspect hairgirl will be back where she started. IMO, her sister won't take any advice. Sis may pretend to for awhile out of fear that she will get caught and lose her cake and eat it to. Yet I don't think that hairgirl should have to be the one to pay the high price here. Counseling isn't inexpensive. If hairgirls DH was willing to approach her sisters husband with the issue, then I think they can run that by a professional to see what they say. I can probably guess exactly what they will say.

You know what, I am going to call my friend who's wife was cheating on him for years and years and is now happily engaged to someone else. I will ask him as a man who is had the same kind of wife and children, how he would have liked to have been informed. Sooner...later...by someone he knows...etc... I'll let you know what his thoughts are about that.

 

[luckystar112]

FWIW Miracles, I agree with you!
I think confronting the sister with a professional (and IMO her need of professional help is a stretch...not that I think her head is in the right place in regards to her marriage and children) will only lead to the sister ignoring the advice. To me, this appears to be a woman who has been doing it as long as she has because she can. I also think that if Hairgirl and her DH confront her then all that will happen is the sister won't confide in her anymore, hardly an end to the problem. And no one saying anything at all is just enabling her, IMO.
Miracles, I'm curious to hear what your friend has to say. I wish we had more male input in this thread...Strm? Rob? Bueller?

Hairgirl, you know the situation better than us. If I were in your situation I would be afraid of backlash too! This is your sister after all, but at the same time not a good enough excuse to remain silent. I see your dillemna.

Your family would probably react if your DH was the "little bird" too, huh? Is your BIL good at keeping secrets--could you ask him not to reveal who told him, and would he listen? I think that if you believe that his friend is the best way of letting him know, then so be it. You know him better than we do!

Just wondering, have you and your DH talked about the strong possibility that this comes back to nip you in the butt? I definitely think you should tell, but you need to build up the nerve to do so with complete acceptance of however the cards may fall.

 

[miraclesrule]

I have read this great book by Brad Blanton, PhD called "Radical Honesty" How to Transform Your Life By Telling the Truth.

He refers to self-built jails of the mind. What keeps us in our self-built jails is lying. Not telling friends, lovers, spoueses, or bosses about what we do, feel, or thin keeps us locked in that mind jail.

It''s good reading. If nothing esle hairgirl. Tell your truth to your sister. I believe in a take no prisoners approach to honesty.

As one reviewer put it...It is a take no prisoners approach to honesty that would send Miss Manners shreiking from the room.

Yet, I was the girl who loved The Emperor Wear No Clothes. To this day, I am still the one that points out, "Hey Dude is nekkid, it''s that simple. He has no clothes on regardless of whether y''all want to pretend he''s wearing a beautifule blue or black or red coat.

I''m going to go get ready for my 30 year reunion now.

 

[Haven]

Date: 8/9/2008 2:57:56 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I have read this great book by Brad Blanton, PhD called ''Radical Honesty'' How to Transform Your Life By Telling the Truth.


He refers to self-built jails of the mind. What keeps us in our self-built jails is lying. Not telling friends, lovers, spoueses, or bosses about what we do, feel, or thin keeps us locked in that mind jail.


It''s good reading. If nothing esle hairgirl. Tell your truth to your sister. I believe in a take no prisoners approach to honesty.


As one reviewer put it...It is a take no prisoners approach to honesty that would send Miss Manners shreiking from the room.


Yet, I was the girl who loved The Emperor Wear No Clothes. To this day, I am still the one that points out, ''Hey Dude is nekkid, it''s that simple. He has no clothes on regardless of whether y''all want to pretend he''s wearing a beautifule blue or black or red coat.


I''m going to go get ready for my 30 year reunion now.

This book sounds great, Miracles. I like the self-built jails of the mind metaphor.

And that reviewer has obviously never read anything by Miss Manners (Judith Martin)--she''s big on telling the truth, and she''s often snarkier than most of us ever have the guts to be in real life.

Enjoy your reunion--you''re going to knock everyone''s socks off!

 

[D2B]

I agree it will be messy if your DH or you get involved.

Why cant an anonymous e-mail be sent (go to a cafe or library and set up a new account). that way he finds out, he can decide if he wants to investigate or he can deny it. either way, you have told him (anonomysly), he then decides what to do and the burden is on him. Of course this is coupled with you strongly telling your sister to shape up, and that you will not cover for her anymore and you do not want to hear anymore about it, and maybey distancing yourself.

Again, it is in his best interest to know (and the childrens) for this to get sorted. Tell him anonomously, that way the pressure is of you, he can keep his dignity with family, and he can decide what to do.

Good luck
d2b

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 8/9/2008 1:39:07 PM
Author: hairgirl95
After reading the latest posts, I think I am more confused than ever. I want him to know, but I want it to be in a manner that is only about facts and people who care about him. His highschool friend is like a brother to him. I guess I was thinking that he may take it better from him than from anyone else. Afterall, the skeezy wife I have to tell him about is my sister, and I worry that would make him feel a little weird. I understand where you all are coming from though about just doing it myself. I just know that if I do that, theres serious repercussions in the end. My family is so passive its not even funny. They ignore every bad thing that could ever happen and gloss it over for appearances. I am pretty sure that if I disrupt the family harmony, I run the very real risk of being disowned. I know that sounds harsh, but my family is a little crazy! I would somehow be punished, even though I did nothing wrong. I would be going against my moms wishes and ''exposing'' a problem rather than hiding it. Its so frustrating. I just don''t know how to approach this anymore.......

my dear, there will be reprecussions and you can bet that they will fall on your shoulders: oh, hi buddy, i''m talking with you about a problem because you''re sister-in-law wants me to......

i could be wrong but the issue is between you and your sister is that you no longer want to hear her stories and you don''t want to cover for her. it is not your responsibility and/or right to interfer with her relationship with her husband whatever its may or may not be. you can only be responsible for your relationship with her and it is her that you need to be clear with. you are not comfortable protecting her, so don''t. you''re not comfortable in lying for her, so don''t. there is no reason for family drama unless she makes it so by either telling they you won''t cover for her anymore or she is so indiscreet that people continue to ask you questions and you don''t lie anymore. and if someone asks, you don''t give all the details but merely say you''re uncomfortable with the questions, it is possible she''s done x,y and/or z, and tell the asker to go ask her.

but if i''m wrong and the real issue is you want her hubby to find, then be honest about that and YOU tell him. if you feel that strongly, then you''re strong enough to take whatever the family does or says.

ultimately, you have to live with your conscience and do need to do something, but having someone else her husband when its you that has something to say just isn''t right.

movie zombie

 

[diamondfan]

I stood up to my sister and did what was morally right when I was 19 and she wanted to me to lie on a court document so she could receive money through a loophole, money she knew was not hers. She tore my family apart, used and manipulated me and others, and expected me to help her be dishonest. I refused and she stopped talking to me but I did not care, I did what was right and could face myself.

My good friend had a half sister who abused drugs, both RX and illegal, forged Doctor RX''s, was terribly neglecting her 4 young children (allowing a housekeeper who abused them to stay on the job so she could get loaded and go off with strange men and pass out at home) and also told her kids how to revive her if she OD''ed...these were kids 4 to 11 years old, she also brought strange men who were drug dealers home and drove the car pool with other people''s kids while she was high, did not provide healthy food or medical care (her ex would have to) sent them to school dirty without work done...just such bad stuff and my friend felt her nieces and nephew were in danger, so she went to court to help her ex brother in law and his new wife get custody because they kids were really suffering. She went to court, her half sister would call her threaten her and stuff, but my friend felt she was ill, needed help, no one was willing to step up, and therefore someone had to be an advocate for the kids. The ex was a great dad, had a great new wife, and without my friend it would be hard for him to come in and get physical custody because they tend not to take kids away from the mom without serious issues. This woman ended up od''ing with some strange drug dealer a couple of years later...

I know that might be somewhat of an extreme example but my point is being afraid of backlash or what not is not a reason to turn a blind eye to stuff. I would tell her she MUST stop and she must get help, if only for her children''s well being. The daughter is showing highly sexualized age inappropriate behaviors, can''t the mom at least want to stop harming her girls? Let her divorce her husband and clean up her act if she wishes, but this pattern is no good and the girls are being exposed to terrible things, not actually disease clearly, but fallout from their mom''s gross behaviors. Just because they cannot contract a sexually transmitted disease themselves (assuming no one is harming them) their father could, and that is terrible, and also they are being made party to things that should be in the view of innocent kids who have no say in what the adults around them are doing. I am sure there will come a time where they figure stuff out and then the crap will hit the fan. I think it is best to find a way to intervene now and not have the even worse inevitable stuff go on.

 

[Isabelle]

Date: 8/9/2008 2:04:34 PM
Author: miraclesrule
Isabelle: I am not trying to put her on trial. You misunderstand the message I am trying to make. We can all gloss over the facts for the sake of the children and for hairgirl, but this is not a marriage, it is a sham. She is a acting as a con artist.


I agree that psychological help for hairgirl may be beneficial, but why should hairgirl have to incur costs because of her sister? She can go to five different psychologists and she will get probably four or five different opinions. I know this because I work with physicians and their consultative reports everyday. It is clear that this is emotionally wrenching for hairgirl, so now it should be financially wrenching for her too? I think not.


I suspect hairgirl will be back where she started. IMO, her sister won''t take any advice. Sis may pretend to for awhile out of fear that she will get caught and lose her cake and eat it to. Yet I don''t think that hairgirl should have to be the one to pay the high price here. Counseling isn''t inexpensive. If hairgirls DH was willing to approach her sisters husband with the issue, then I think they can run that by a professional to see what they say. I can probably guess exactly what they will say.


You know what, I am going to call my friend who''s wife was cheating on him for years and years and is now happily engaged to someone else. I will ask him as a man who is had the same kind of wife and children, how he would have liked to have been informed. Sooner...later...by someone he knows...etc... I''ll let you know what his thoughts are about that.

I doubt one person''s opinion will be instructive. I think reasonable minds can differ. And we obviously disagree, which is totally okay. My final point on this matter is that you cannot un-ring a bell. Telling the BIL is always an option that is on the table. But once he is told, he cannot be untold, no matter how the person who told him might regret it later on down the road. It might be true that Sister will be deaf and unmoved by her family''s united stance against her repeated adultery. But if it is done with the guidance of a specialist, then IF the time comes for the family to speak to the BIL, it will be done having taken all factors into account, and after trying hard to get Sister to modify her behavior (or seek a divorce) for the good of her family and herself. I agree that Hairgirl should not have to bear the costs of the counselor. She also shouldn''t have had to bear the costs of the emotional turmoil her sister''s behavior has brought to bear. Nor should Hairgirl''s husband. But this is just yet another fallout from the decisions Sister has made. Ultimately, the interests of the CHILDREN TRUMP THE COSTS of seeking guidance. If Hairgirl involves her mother and father, they too might share the costs of the therapist''s involvement. There are a lot of lives here which could be ruined even more than they are now by sister''s behavior if the situation is approached haphazardly. I would put getting ANOTHER person involved (the friend) squarely in that category. BIL will feel much more loved if he is told about his wife''s problems by her, (if it even comes to that), rather than someone outside of the family. And on another note, if sister does enter therapy and ceases this destructive behavior, of what point would it be to tell BIL after the fact? Just to blow up the family, which again would not be in the children''s interest. Essentially there are too many unknowns at this point, which makes taking any drastic measures very risky. We don''t know if she has had multiple affairs. We don''t know if she loves her husband or not. We don''t know how she would react to a family confrontation outside the presence of BIL. We don''t know. So in such a case, it is better to proceed with caution than like a bull in the china closet.

 

[Isabelle]

Date: 8/9/2008 1:39:07 PM
Author: hairgirl95
After reading the latest posts, I think I am more confused than ever. I want him to know, but I want it to be in a manner that is only about facts and people who care about him. His highschool friend is like a brother to him. I guess I was thinking that he may take it better from him than from anyone else. Afterall, the skeezy wife I have to tell him about is my sister, and I worry that would make him feel a little weird. I understand where you all are coming from though about just doing it myself. I just know that if I do that, theres serious repercussions in the end. My family is so passive its not even funny. They ignore every bad thing that could ever happen and gloss it over for appearances. I am pretty sure that if I disrupt the family harmony, I run the very real risk of being disowned. I know that sounds harsh, but my family is a little crazy! I would somehow be punished, even though I did nothing wrong. I would be going against my moms wishes and ''exposing'' a problem rather than hiding it. Its so frustrating. I just don''t know how to approach this anymore.......

I don''t agree that you would be "doing nothing wrong" by telling your BIL without first talking with your parents and a professional and confronting your sister with her behavior. Going off half cocked and telling BIL will upset your parents and your sister, and likely your BIL himself.

Please don''t get me wrong: You have real grounds for being upset. Your sister has used you abhorrently and she has treated her marriage like it is garbage. You will feel so much better once you express yourself to her and tell her that you will not countenance her unloading on you ever again, and that you despise her choices. She should know that you have zero respect for her in terms of integrity and that you don''t her the way you used to. But get your mom and dad involved so that they know what she has been doing and what she has done to you in the process. You and your DH need other people to bear some of this burden. It shouldn''t be entirely on your shoulders.

 

[Isabelle]

Date: 8/9/2008 3:49:08 PM
Author: movie zombie

Date: 8/9/2008 1:39:07 PM

Author: hairgirl95

After reading the latest posts, I think I am more confused than ever. I want him to know, but I want it to be in a manner that is only about facts and people who care about him. His highschool friend is like a brother to him. I guess I was thinking that he may take it better from him than from anyone else. Afterall, the skeezy wife I have to tell him about is my sister, and I worry that would make him feel a little weird. I understand where you all are coming from though about just doing it myself. I just know that if I do that, theres serious repercussions in the end. My family is so passive its not even funny. They ignore every bad thing that could ever happen and gloss it over for appearances. I am pretty sure that if I disrupt the family harmony, I run the very real risk of being disowned. I know that sounds harsh, but my family is a little crazy! I would somehow be punished, even though I did nothing wrong. I would be going against my moms wishes and ''exposing'' a problem rather than hiding it. Its so frustrating. I just don''t know how to approach this anymore.......

my dear, there will be reprecussions and you can bet that they will fall on your shoulders: oh, hi buddy, i''m talking with you about a problem because you''re sister-in-law wants me to......


i could be wrong but the issue is between you and your sister is that you no longer want to hear her stories and you don''t want to cover for her. it is not your responsibility and/or right to interfer with her relationship with her husband whatever its may or may not be. you can only be responsible for your relationship with her and it is her that you need to be clear with. you are not comfortable protecting her, so don''t. you''re not comfortable in lying for her, so don''t. there is no reason for family drama unless she makes it so by either telling they you won''t cover for her anymore or she is so indiscreet that people continue to ask you questions and you don''t lie anymore. and if someone asks, you don''t give all the details but merely say you''re uncomfortable with the questions, it is possible she''s done x,y and/or z, and tell the asker to go ask her.


but if i''m wrong and the real issue is you want her hubby to find, then be honest about that and YOU tell him. if you feel that strongly, then you''re strong enough to take whatever the family does or says.


ultimately, you have to live with your conscience and do need to do something, but having someone else her husband when its you that has something to say just isn''t right.


movie zombie

I really agree with you. She has the right to protect herself from her sister''s behavior. She has a right to tell her parents what has been going on. She also has the right to decide she will not interact with her sister unless her sister stops the behavior. But I think any other steps have to be taken very gingerly and deliberatively, and IMO with the help of a trained professional.

 

[purrfectpear]

Excellent advice from Isabelle. I don''t think anyone is suggesting YOU need therapy, we''re suggesting a visit to talk with a trained professional to get advice from someone who has probably heard this sad story multiple times, as to how best to handle it in the family WITH THE LEAST POSSIBLE DAMAGE TO THE CHILDREN. The therapist may say stay out of it, they may say send an anonymous letter, they may say tell the BIL face to face. Who knows? I do know that I''m more comfortable with advice from someone who is trained in damage control and family dynamics than I am with advice from all of us, while we mean well.

Your niece''s mental and emotional health is primary here IMO

 

[trillionaire]

I think people are trying really hard to figure out a difficult situation. Just tell him. However you do it. I think it should stay within the family, so perhaps you or your DH, or both of you. If you send DH, expect that BIL is going to want to talk to you as well. However, once you mention it, it probably will all fall into place for him. Somewhere inside, he knows something is wrong. Also, I would be careful WHAT you reveal, beyond the general pattern of cheating and that she has a boyfriend. If he knows that she was sleeping with someone else while pregnant and taking his girls to Tony''s, he might become dangerously angry. I know I would. It might be easier to hear directly from you, because if he has a breakdown or cries, it might be easier in front of you than in front of another man. Maybe your DH could just be nearby.

Please tell him. He deserve the diginity and respect. I''m very sorry that this is happening to any of you.

 

[Lill_The_Thrill]

Wow! I feel for Your nieces and your BIL

. I think Youäve been given LOTS of great advice on what to do. I do like the idea of contacting a therapist to recieve guidance on how to handle the situation. I DO however think that the BIL should be told, therapist or no therapist. I know that I would be crushed if my partner had been going behind my back and led a double life for so many years, ESPECIALLY if my children were involved the way your nieces have been. This just saddens me to bits...

I applaud you and your hubby for taking responsibility and telling your BIL. It seriosuly is the only responsible thing to do when small children are involved. Many people would just turn their backs, just beacause itäs the easiest thing to do and justify it with "it's none of my business", it actually became your business when she became your sister, and when she dragged your nieces into this (imo), this is what family is for.

Good luck!

 

[FrekeChild]

I think we all agree that your sister is a disturbed person. Not one person has said that they are ok with what she''s doing.

I think you''re going to end up telling him. It''s just a matter of time.

How long have you thought about telling him? Why haven''t you told him earlier? Is there something that happened that sparked this?

I''ve seen this happen before, many many times. I''ve seen the consequences of a cheating parental relationship and the effect it had on their children. I''ve seen those children in their married relationships and seen the way they treat their parents 30+ years after their parents'' relationship dissolved. They are messed up.

The one that is the least messed up was old enough to see and understand what was going on. He knew that his mother was cheating, he knew that his mother left his father. He knew that he wanted to see his dad, and that his mom wouldn''t let him. He''s stuck in a miserable marriage, but he loves his children, and they love him. He has a relatively normal life.

The one that was the most messed up was forced by his mother to stand up and say in front of his father that he wanted nothing to do with him. He lied. He knew everything his mother had been doing, and he knew his father was the one scorned. A decade later he dismissed his mother completely, went back to his father, and never really connected with his mother again. He died prematurely in his early 20s.

The one in the middle is the youngest. He hardly knew his father when his mother took him away, because he was very young and as a result did not really know what was going on with his parents and why his dad was suddenly gone. He has been in counseling for the past 20 years. He verbally abuses his mother and his father. He is a loyal father, but treats his wife terribly, verbally abusive to her as well. I can''t express the barely reined in anger he possesses. It is scary for me, and I am hardly ever the target he directs it at.

There will be consequences for the children regardless of what happens or when it happens. They will probably need therapy and they will probably hate their mother. It is about minimizing the effects on the children. The question is-how do you go about doing that?

I wouldn''t consult a psychologist, personally. They are going to be concerned with everything on an individual level. Possibly a marital/family counselor would be better for that, but in my opinion the best bet for professional help would be a divorce attorney. They will probably know the consequences of a situation like this the best, the financial repercussions, the emotional repercussions, the custody of the children, what usually happens when something like this happens. They will have seen this an almost countless number of times and they will know every single detail of what happened and why. An experienced one will tell you that they would advise you to do, and if they think that their marriage can be saved. Of course that''s hard to say from a third party''s view.

I''m thinking from what you''ve said that it can''t be. She is conducting a second relationship, and continuing other risky behaviors that are harmful to her and to her husband, and to any children she could have in the future. It is because of the possibility of illness. He is at risk. Period. If she comes home with AIDS, that is a death wish for him. And he doesn''t deserve that. He deserves to know of the danger she is putting him in.

Yes, the kids are important! They are probably the best thing to happen from this marriage, but I think she''s shown that she isn''t thinking of the consequences of her actions on them. I feel so bad for them. The most important thing for them is that they feel loved, regardless of what happens to their parents.

And I really don''t think she''s going to stop. If you confront her, she''s going to hide it from you. If you take your whole family to confront her, she''s going to hide it from all of you. I think the only thing that''s going to stop this is if he finds out, and repercussions come from him.

I don''t really see you as having much choice but to tell him, honestly.

But I am just sick for you. She should have never put you in this position.

 

[hairgirl95]

You guys have all been really great. And all of you have given me such great advice here. It is such a muddled situation that will forever impact everyone involved. I think thats what scares me the most. Whatever I do, I am going to change the path of life for so many people. I think the idea of talking to a mental health professional first is a good idea. It may give me some steps to process and some advice as to HOW to go about this the best way. I can also refer my BIL to a therapist as well, and suggest my nieces get some help. Especially the oldest one. I am trying to schedule lunch with my sister for next week. The first step I have to take is shutting down the communication with me about the affair(s). I should have put the brakes on that years ago. I don''t think that its going to make her stop messing around, and I think she will lie about ending it to keep me quiet. She has proven herself to be so manipulative that I really don''t trust anything that comes out of her mouth.

My hubs and I are really wrestling with the best way to tell BIL. I keep waffling between anonymous and my hubs doing it. I don''t think theres a clear cut answer for me yet, and its something I still have to think about. First step is lunch this week, and depending on how that goes, I think the decision of how to inform the BIL will fall into place, mentally at least.

Miracles--thanks for the book suggestion. I am going to Amazon search it. Sounds like a good read for many aspects of life. Have fun at your reunion! Post when you get a chance to talk to your friend. I am anxious to hear what he has to say. It may give me a little clarity on how to finalize the plans for all this.

Purrfect pear--ya know, I really appreciate the advocacy you have posted in regards to my nieces. Your posts have made me think longer and harder about the impact they are really going to face. Thank you.

Isabelle--I agree, we do need someone else to bear this brunt with us. Its really getting to be too much to handle. I am a pretty open person, and the only things I keep private are the intimate dealings between my husband and I. Other than that, I am pretty much an open book. I think thats one reason this is so hard for me is because I feel like a liar and a sham because I am not being totally honest when people have raised suspicions and concerns about her parenting and "extracurricular activities". Thanks for all your posts on this topic--you have expressed another side and angle that really needs to be considered as well.

diamondfan---I feel for your friends sis that had the drug problem. You hear this happening so much these days. I watch "Intervention" and want to throw things at the tv when I see a mom getting stoned out of her mind on oxycontin and leaving her children to fend for themselves. Its so sad how her story ended. My heart breaks for her poor kids. Thank you for all your great advice here--I really appreciate it. I enjoy all the posts you make on other topics as well.

Again, thank you all. I am having a quiet and calm weekend and trying to methodically plan out the best plan of action for this. After reading what many of you wrote, I know I have to make sure that the safety aspect is covered as well, as we don''t know what my BIL will do when he hears this. He doesn''t have a horrible temper, but who knows what kind of emotional buttons this will push. I don''t know what I would do if I were him. I know that I need to be assured my nieces are not at home when he confronts my sister. I need to make sure they are gone. Oh theres just so many aspects to put into place. I know it can be done---and I am devoting my Saturday to planning it!

 

[Imdanny]

I rather agree with Isabelle's posts, especially in regard to the seriousness of the situation. I am going to be blunt. No person has a right to expose their sexual partner unknowingly to a disease. I do not think that it is necessary for me to name and consider the list of these possible diseases as we are all adults. I am sorry that you are going through this, and I would also encourage you to formulate a responsible plan.

Edit: we cross-posted. That's what you're doing. Best wishes.

 

[miraclesrule]

hairgirl: I spoke with my friend today. First off, he feels awful for you, DH and your BIL. Having said that, he said that you should absolutely tell him ASAP.

1. He said that you don't need to tell him the gory details. Just enough so that it firmly plants that seed of doubt so that he can look at things diiferently and take it from there.

2. He said he was extremely upset with people he thought were his friends who had known but did not tell him. When he confronted them, the knowing often said, "Well, what we supposed to do, we knew you would never catch them in bed" or "We didn't think you would belive us" Or "We thought you knew" My friend said he suggested that they could have called when they knew his wife and her boyfriend were together and hinted something...anything. He understands it isn't an easy thing to do, but it is the right thing to do.

3. He wished he had found out sooner. Especially since he felt that he is now an "old fart", (he's not, he is only 2 years older than me). He said, Yes, it was extremely painful and gut wrenching and emotionally devastating for him to discover the facts about his wife, but it hurt even more to know that so many people knew about it and he was being made a fool. He never belived that she was capable of cheating. He had to discover it on his own only because her continued behavior became suspicious because she became more brazen as time went on. He never discovered it earlier because he loved her and he trusted her and he believed that she loved him too, and that her love was the same sort of love and they had been together since high school. (If that makes sense, some people have different definations of love)

4. He scoffed at many of the suggestions that the husband is silently condoning it.

He said that you don't have to be the one to tell him, but just let him know. He didn't have any specific examples of ways to do this. I just gave him a hug and congratulated on his upcoming marriage. I have to go get my make up on...

I hope that helps.

 

[diamondfan]

I think it is interesting to have the man''s view when he is the one being cheated on. I think that there are things that some people do want to know, and some do not. It is hard to know about what type of guy someone is...meaning, hairgirl''s brother in law might be very appreciative and be able to move forward, or he might freak. I think now that hairgirl knows it is such a tough spot to be in. I think, on one level, no matter who tells him, he has a right to know. And it is going to be hard for him to know people were aware of this, and kept it from him. Again, she is a serial cheater, she has issues, and clearly has no regard for her marriage or her kids. I also wonder what kind of guy this boyfriend is, that he would participate in this stuff, he is clearly a moral scum too. Life is about choices. She is married, and if she truly was in love with someone else, for many years, she should have left her hubby, no matter the creature comforts he provides. Boyfriend knows he is the plaything but not worthy of being with as he is not a financial success, that is a lovely feeling though I do not feel any sorrow for HIM. She is making a mockery of marriage and exposing her kids to something gross. Trust me just because the girls are not likely to get sexual diseases, they are being impacted nonetheless, they are seeing and being exposed to stuff they should not be, and their relationships with men in the future will likely be impacted in a negative way for sure, this is their role model after all...and it is not good.

No matter how one slices this, this is a sucky situation and a potential lose lose no matter who does what...

 

[FrekeChild]

You know, miracles, thats what I figured he would say.

When I revealed to my now best friend that her BF had hooked up with his roommate's sister-and I told her about 3 months after the fact- she cried a lot and was really upset, even though they had broken up before I told her. And she said essentially the same thing. that she wished she had known earlier, and she wanted to know who had known and not told her. Of those people only one was close to HER, so she forgave the ones that weren't close to her, but she condemned the one who was. That person happened to be her best friend at the time.

If she had known he was that type of person at the time it had actually happened, she never would have fallen in love with him, she wouldn't have done a lot of things. Or would have done them differently.

I know, that I would want to know. Regardless of the rest of the situation. The rest of the situation can be fixed over time.

 

[LaraOnline]

Hello again Hairgirl,
I know that you are really mulling things over and taking things carefully, but I just wanted to weigh in again.

You've had some really fantastic responses...
I know you are on your way to the best decision, but for what it's worth...

My feeling is to discourage you from the anonymous letter, I think that would be a rather cruel and heartless way of letting your family member - your BIL - know what is going on in his universe. (although of course I know you are actually motivated by concern for him)

My personal feeling is that you should lead him to draw his own conclusion, dropping hints or timely phonecalls, as been suggested above, and that any sketchy details can be filled in, if needed, at a later date when he contacts you and wants to discuss it.
You can tell him you had a strange conversation with a mutual acquaintance, does he know who 'x' (man's name) is, that kind of thing
You could take him to lunch, and just drop hints the whole time, he'll know what's up without it being spelt out...

This is if the sister hasn't had a massive epiphany after her lunch date with you, and goes home to come clean and make amends...

But the object is to allow BIL to retain as much dignity and support as possible, not to think that everyone has known everything, and he has been made a fool.
He will need your family, but it is likely that he will feel isolated when he discovers the truth about your sister

I would also suggest the obvious, building up your relationship with your neices as much as possible, they will need you into the future...

anyway, lots of ((((((((cyber hugs)))))))) for you and yours...

 

[AGBF]

I am not sure anyone should tell anyone else anything. I guess I am of the school (posting earlier in the thread) that believes that on some level your brother-in-law knows. Before you do anything, watch the DVDs of "Jules and Jim" and "César and Rosalie". I cannot even recall the former, although I do recall being much struck by it, but I clearly remember the latter. I would let the idea that relationships are complex and bizarre percolate before you do anything to intervene.

I wish you the very best.

Deborah