Moral ??--Do you tell someone their spouse is cheating?

[krispi]

Date: 8/12/2008 1:06:28 AM
Author: hairgirl95
HI everyone--

Sorry for being incognito the past day--I am having some computer issues

and it wasn't letting me access my internet!! I hate when this happens!

Anywho--just to update all of you, I am having lunch with my sister tomorrow. I am putting my foot down and telling her that any information pertaining to her multiple affairs is her own burden to carry from here on out. I am telling her I want to hear and know nothing further about her immoral activities. As for telling her husband, I still working on the plan for that. I think its something I have to plan flawlessly since there are so many people that will be affected by this. Rest assured, I am taking all of your wonderful posts and advice into account here when deciding just how to proceed with this. I have had many thoughts, but I need to get them organized into a concrete arrangement. I hope this makes sense--I feel like I am rambling here!

Firecracker---could you further elaborate as to why you might suspect sexual/physical abuse? I ask this because it is something I have had as a worst case scenario fear, and there are some weird things that my 4 year old niece does that I cannot really explain. I'll post some of those things later. Can you tell me some things that I should be looking for? I will say this, one weird thing she does is put her finger into her rectum. This has happened a few times, as recently as around 3 months ago. I was worried about it when my sister told me, and I STRONGLY encouraged her to take my niece to see a psychologist, but my sister refused. Really frustrated me. After reading your reply though, it makes me think and really worry. Any other info you could give me would be really great. There is several men (her boyfriends but family friends and relatives as well) that do spend time around both my nieces. I just hope and pray that these affairs are the worst things going on. If something was happening to either of those girls, I don't know WHAT I would do. It would not be pretty. Thanks in advance for your help.

RBlover--thanks sweetie--I really appreciate your support. I posted on your topic earlier as well, before my internet booted me off again! I hope you and your sis are getting things worked out as well. I haven't had a chance to follow up with your post yet.

Princess--as always, thank you for your continued support. You are so sweet!

Krispi---were you married to my ex-husband??!! WOW, our stories are scarily similar! I think we saw some similarities in earlier posts if I remember right. Just know that I am sending you big hugs for the road you had to travel as well. Its a struggle as you know, but you and I are strong girls--and the struggles make us stronger.

Shelly228--sounds like you have a full plate with your friend! Good luck with all that as well. Its not a fun burden.

LuckyTexan---yep, serious Springer S*IT!! My scandalous sister kinda makes me feel like a piece of trash just thinking about what she has done. The sad part is she was raised WAAAAAY better than she is acting. She has no excuse. We have parents who were great role-models and there is no reason for her to act like this. But yes, I got a serious chuckle out of the Springer comment. I have referred to this situation by that name maaaaaany times.

Miracles----girl, I cannot thank you enough! You have been such a great support to me on this thread. You are truly a smart and compassionate woman. I am so fortunate to have your wonderful advice here. My sympathies to your friend in his situation. I am so glad you talked to him and passed it along to me. Also, I hope the reunion went GREAT!! Let me know if you used the extensions!

Freke, Diamondfan, Lara, AGBF--thank you all as well for your continued support. I really appreciate everything I have read on here and all the great advice. You are all great!!

I'll let you all know how lunch goes tomorrow. My hands are sweating already just thinking about how this will go. I promise to post and catch you up after lunch tomorrow.

Wow, I didn't realize how similar our stories were until I went back and read some of your other posts. I'm sorry you had to go through that as well. Yes, it's been a struggle at times, and yes it has made both of us stronger. It sounds like we've gone on to meet guys who are much better for us! I hate that you have to be in this position currently, but just like you got through all that, you'll get through this too.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 8/12/2008 1:06:28 AM
Author: hairgirl95
Anywho--just to update all of you, I am having lunch with my sister tomorrow. I am putting my foot down and telling her that any information pertaining to her multiple affairs is her own burden to carry from here on out. I am telling her I want to hear and know nothing further about her immoral activities. As for telling her husband, I still working on the plan for that. I think its something I have to plan flawlessly since there are so many people that will be affected by this. Rest assured, I am taking all of your wonderful posts and advice into account here when deciding just how to proceed with this. I have had many thoughts, but I need to get them organized into a concrete arrangement. I hope this makes sense--I feel like I am rambling here!

i''m glad you will be setting limits with your sister.

re telling her husband: are you going to tell her over lunch today that you will be telling him?


movie zombie

 

[princesss]

Miracles, not sure if that was directed at me, but I was thinking more along the lines of electric outlets and hitting themselves on the head. I don't have kids, but I know everytime I was babysitting the instant my back was turned was the instant the kids were heading towards something harmful. That's all I was thinking. But that's also possible at home with two parents paying attention. Didn't mean to make it sound so dramatic.

ETA: Just finished your post. ITA. Lots of support here, hairgirl. No more advice.

 

[Isabelle]

Date: 8/12/2008 12:34:59 PM
Author: miraclesrule
Please, I think the point has been made. I used to volunteer as a CASA, a court appointed special advocate for children in the foster care system. The state often overreacts and trust me, there is nothing more traumatic than to be stipped from your parents, especially when there is little proof that there was actual abuse.


And if you think the state makes a good parent. I ask you to think again. I can go on and on about horror stories. It was one of the reason that I quit to go work with StandUp4Kids. There I dealt with really messed up kids who were traumatized from having to be wrung through the system.


Please, there is no evidence that these kids are being traumatized yet. It''s early, they are young, hairgirl needs to take one step at a time.


We all care deeply about these children. But merely being in the same house when adults are having sex is not going to do lasting damage to the kids. If that were the case, no married couple could have sex in their homes while the kids were busy playing video games or napping. Just because this man is carrying on an affair with a married women doesn''t make him a child molester either.


I am certain that all these things will be looked into once the situation develops and the husband becomes aware of the wife''s activities, but I really think we need to stop this for hairgirls sake. I am begging you, let her take her steps one at a time. hairgirls emotional/mental health is at risk here too. She needs our support right now. I think the seeds have been planted. We don''t need to force the bulb to sprout.

I completely agree.

 

[hairgirl95]

Well, I just got home from the big lunch discussion with my sister. It didn''t go bad, but not as well as I was hoping. First off, she brought her kids to lunch with her. So, I called my husband to come pick them up. I couldn''t have the convo I needed to with the kids there. I had specifically asked her to leave the kids with a sitter or my DH would watch them so we could have some "girl time", but she didn''t listen. Anyways... my husband came and got the girls, and at that point my sisters antenna and radar were in full alert. She knew something was going on. So I told her that I was really conflicted about the information she had shared with me about her multiple affairs. Gosh, I was so nervous my hands would not stop shaking! She looked really nervous. The first thing she asked me was if I was going to tell someone. I told her that as of right now, no, but she needed to stop what she was doing. She then tells me that she is no longer "sleeping" with anyone, and her and Tony are just "friends". Total crap. I don''t believe her for a second. I am positive its just a cop-out and excuse to get me to believe she is walking the straight and narrow.

I played along with her that she wasn''t seeing Tony anymore. I wanted to keep her as calm as possible, because if she blew up, it would have made it worse. So I told her that I was glad she had stopped sleeping around, and that she needed to remain monogamous to her husband. She then starts crying. I told her that I thought she needed to talk to a marriage/family/sex therapist to help her get to the root of WHY she keeps doing these things. I told her that she is either enjoying the high, wanting to get caught, or she has a possible sex addiction. I told her there was some reason deep down that is causing her to do this. I expressed my concern for the girls and the environment they are growing up in. I told her its not fair to anyone, especially her husband and girls.

She pretty much just cried and apologized after that. I told her that I would help her find a good therapist to talk to, and that I wanted to help her but she had to help HERSELF first. When we left the restaurant, everything was on good terms.

On my way home, she calls me on my cell. She is mad at this point. I guess she had some time to think about what I said, and the denial and anger kicked in with her. She pretty much cussed me out and told me it was none of my business if she sees a therapist or not and she doesn''t need to see one, blah blah blah. So I told her that when she felt moved to share her infidelities with me she made it my business, and I was tired of standing by feeling guilty for what I knew. I told her she needed to grow up and be responsible for her kids. Well, the anger and mad faded again, and she started crying. Her biggest fear really was that I was going to tell her husband. She is paranoid about him finding out. So, I lied. I told her I had no intention of telling him, and if she got help, she could work through this. She calmed down, we hung up.

*Sigh* I have a serious headache! I am going to give it a couple weeks and see if she makes the effort to find a therapist. I will let her actions dictate my next move at this point. I realize I shouldn''t have lied and said I would not tell her DH, but I needed to get her calmed down and focused on the task at hand.

Could have been better, could have been worse. The ball is in her court for the moment--I will definitely keep you all updated.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Wow, I think you handled things incredibly well. It was interesting to me how many varied responses you got from people really trying to put themselves in your shoes and thinking of what is best for her family (tell him, don''t tell him, etc.), and somehow you found a perfect middle road to walk.

Anyway, I know this is just the start. I''m hopeful that she really will get help, that her telling you was actually a cry for help. And if not (because we know old habits die hard), I''m glad that you''ve at least given her a chance before you proceed with telling somebody.

 

[princesss]

Big hugs to you, hairgirl.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I just want to say "bravo" for how you are handling this...you are showing so much strength.

 

[Isabelle]

First I congratulate you for setting a healthy boundary with your sister. You should expect her emotions to swing wildly for a while. Continue to calmly tell her and repeat what you have told her, and you should expect this to continue. You must remain firm with her that she must seek help and she must change her behavior or suffer the consequences if she doesn''t. IMO, DO NOT TELL HER HUSBAND anything at this point in time. If your sister gets help, then what she tells her husband is between her and her therapist. The important thing is that she changes her behavior. IF she stops the crazy behavior, then it is not your place to tell her husband about the past. It''s her place. If she does not change her behavior, then of course you have to take the steps that make sense. But lying to your sister is totally counterproductive. You cannot help her or cause her to believe you are on the side of honesty while you are being dishonest yourself. Now, if she doesn''t get help and change her behavior, then maybe you will have to say something. But you don''t know anything right now, so PLEASE keep your cool and see what happens.

 

[Gypsy]

I''m with Indy and want to add the following:
She''s already infected him with an STD once. That''s beyond irresponsible it''s reprehensible. Sister or not, I would draw that line and do exactly what Indy said. Because Your sister is now being even more selfish (if possible) by dragging you into this, making it your problem too and forcing you to become implicated in this mess of hers. She clearly thinks of no one but herself.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

I think you are dealing with this in a really good, thought out way.

I didn''t mean to totally freak you out, but it sounds like something you had on your mind. I don''t think any of these signs that the 4 year old is definitive for anything, as I said before, they are behaviors that raise my eyebrow, and as many people stated, can be from many things. But, if everyone ignores the worst possible senerio, no one will ever think ot it and make an intervention if necessary. At this point I think the steps you are taking are really what is in the best interest from the children''s health and well being. I am concerned that signs of pyschological damage have already shown, and that if these children are to have a chance at a normal adolescence, than the the situation cannot remain the status quo.

I have learned about child abuse from many different places, but the book I like is the California Child Abuse Prevention Handbook, you can google it, the PDF is online. But I want to state again, don''t jump to any conculsions, I think the fact you are intervening in the manner you are is a great way to handle this.

What you are not doing is not easy, but the right thing is sometimes the hardest one.

 

[miraclesrule]

(((((((hairgirl))))))<-----more hugs.


I am not surprised by your sister''s reaction. It''s classic passive aggressive. As hard as I know it may be to do, I hope you are prepared to confront her even more strongly. Think of today''s step as conservative treatment. That is a medical term, but if conservative treatment doesn''t cure the dis-ease....then more "radical" or invasive treatment is then recommended.

That''s when I would recommend you go full out Indy on her. In no uncertain terms. Your sister may think you are putting up a "yield" sign but she needs a "stop" sign.

Does this make sense?

 

[choro72]

You''re so brave hairgirl. I think you handled it well. How is your DH through all of this?

 

[iheartscience]

I''ve been following this thread but haven''t posted yet because I didn''t know what to say! I think you did the right thing, though. Telling your sister that she needs to change her behavior immediately was the best first step, in my opinion.

However, I would just straight up tell her that if she doesn''t get help and stop sleeping with other men, you are going to tell her husband. If that''s what she''s so afraid of, maybe that''s what will get her to stop? I don''t know...what a terrible situation for you, her husband and kids to be in. I do hope she''ll stop but it seems very unlikely at this point...

 

[LaraOnline]

Isabelle's post just above was really great.
You don't need to rush to her husband... and a few weeks ain't gonna kill ya. You'll get a picture of how she's going by then.


ETA: but how will you know if she's changed her behaviour? Perhaps she'll just tell you she has. Ooops, think I'm getting ahead of myself...

 

[Independent Gal]

I think you did GREAT! Huge kudos to you, hairgirl.

Now, I dated a man who had behaved like your sister his whole life. When I found out - and boy, he was such a good lier that he actually shook my faith in myself and in humanity that I wasn't able to detect it earlier - at first I thought that he could get help.

But you know what? He WAS getting "help." He was seeing a therapist, it turns out. But there was no hope for that man, because deep down, he didn't see what he was doing as wrong. He did OUTRAGEOUS things and kept getting away with them because of his enormous charisma and skill at manipulation, and his skill at convincing even his therapist that the world was somehow doing this TO him, and he was just the victim, acting out traumas that had been inflicted on him. People who are able to lie as successfully as your sister does may be beyond help. And when confronted, he behaved exactly like your sister, by the way.

I hate to say it, but I would be deeply shocked if she was actually able to change her behaviour, unless you really think she is able to see her behaviour as wrong and bad. And if she was able to see that, it wouldn't have got as far as it did. There's a huge difference between a one night stand and a casual affair, and an even huger difference between that and someone who systematically and serially behaves this way, lying, deceiving, manipulating, with no thought for her children or her husband.

You have to be a very special kind of person to go on like that for years.

I'm glad you confronted her. I still don't know what you should do about the husband. All I can say is, I'm really, really glad that someone told me about the kind of person the a'hole I was seeing was. Lord only knows what would have happened otherwise. Maybe I would have ended up like your BIL.

That poor man.

 

[AGBF]

Early this morning I wrote a long, and what seemed (at least in hindsight) thoughtful posting that the computer then ate. I didn''t have the heart to post anything at all to this thread after that disaster.

I know that I acknowledged the wisdom I found in this thread. I have felt, time and time again, that posters have been bringing the best of themselves here and giving great advice to hairgirl. I doubt that any one individual could navigate a perfect path through this maze, no matter what his credentials. Hairgirl, you have done a fabulous job!

I know that I questioned whether it would be possible for your sister to stop her, "crazy behavior" as one poster suggested she must lest you tell her husband. My feeling is that her problems are far too deep seated for her simply to stop them on command. One might, however, ask that she seek professional help if she did not want you to tell anyone else about the situation. The reason for that would be, of course, that the welfare of the children might be in danger.

Never, however, would I bring any official child protective services office into the picture. Miraclesrule is right about how terribly they could harm the family. If push comes to shove, there are more creative and effective ways to protect the children. If push comes to shove there will be highly trained child specialists (well-trained child psychiatrists with good reputations for common sense) to whom we could help refer your brother-in-law. Child protective services might rip apart the family.

Again, you have done beautifully.

Hugs,
Deborah

 

[miraclesrule]

I havbe to agree with independent gal on this one. I just don''t see it happening with your sister, just based on her reaction to you. Her greatest fear was her "gravy train" finding out and her being revealed, not feeling remorseful and agreeing to seek help. I think her mind is swirling with ways to avoid hairgirl''s detection and I also think she is plotting ways to plant seeds about hairgil''s credibility with with her husband so that if hairgirl does ever hint drop, that she won''t be believed by her BIL. I have seen this done.

That is why I hope the BIL find out sooner reather than later. I would hate for his view of hairgirl to be twisted by the manipulations of her sister.

 

[vita*dolce]

wow. this is such a terrible situation to be in!! you have my sincerest sympathy!! that said, i''m not sure what i would do. normally, i''d say that your loyalties should lie with your sister, but since her irresponsibility is endangering someone you care about it''s a little messier than that. is there any way that you could see he finds out without you actually telling him? i know that''s a passive-agressive move but i definitely think he needs to know and i also definitely do NOT think you should tell him.. sorry, girl. you''re in a bind!!

want me to call him for you??

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 8/13/2008 10:33:07 AM
Author: Independent Gal
I think you did GREAT! Huge kudos to you, hairgirl.

Now, I dated a man who had behaved like your sister his whole life. When I found out - and boy, he was such a good lier that he actually shook my faith in myself and in humanity that I wasn''t able to detect it earlier - at first I thought that he could get help.

But you know what? He WAS getting ''help.'' He was seeing a therapist, it turns out. But there was no hope for that man, because deep down, he didn''t see what he was doing as wrong. He did OUTRAGEOUS things and kept getting away with them because of his enormous charisma and skill at manipulation, and his skill at convincing even his therapist that the world was somehow doing this TO him, and he was just the victim, acting out traumas that had been inflicted on him. People who are able to lie as successfully as your sister does may be beyond help. And when confronted, he behaved exactly like your sister, by the way.

Wow. Did we know the same guy?

And I agree 100%. Some people are incredibly good at manipulation and playing the "woe is me" card. The fact that she has gotten by this long proves she is one of them.

I really, really hope she wises up and takes your advice.

 

[hairgirl95]

Good evening everyone--

Just wanted to say another thank you to all you guys. You have all been so great! Nothing much has changed today, except my sister is pretty much trying to account for EVERYTHING I do during the day. I think she is seriously keeping tabs on me to make sure I don''t talk to her husband. I wish I had her free time to track someone down like that!! Her husband was supposed to get a haircut from me this weekend and she rescheduled it to a time when she would be at home too. She''s pretty paranoid right now!

For all of us in support of Indy''s post, I think we should coin the term that I am going to "go all Indy on her butt" when taking Indy''s advice. I think we can coin a new pop culture term with that!!

Thank you for all the hugs and support--believe it or not, I have gathered so much strength from all of you here. I think this is a situation where its better, for me at least, to get an outsiders point of view. The feelings are just too raw to get an objective opinion from anyone who knows all of us personally. You are all such a smart, intelligent, and socially aware group of people that I would trust to go to with ANY life situation, good or bad. So, big hugs right back to all of you too!

Isabelle--I agree, I am not telling the husband yet--yet being the key word. I am going to sit on it for a while, see how therapy progresses, and go from there. If she drops the ball and doesn''t get help, her husband is getting the whole story. If she proceeds to the therapists office, then I will let her and the therapist work it out. I see what you mean about the lying--I just wanted to buy some time with her and let her get some help. I cannot rule out NEVER telling her husband, but I am willing to wait for awhile to see how counseling works for her.

Firecracker--thank you for the suggestions--and I promise not to jump to conclusions where the possible abuse thing is concerned. I agree--it would cause WAY more harm than good if I was off base with my hunch. Thank you!!

Miraclesrule--I am coining "go Indy on her butt" just for you!!

Choro--my husband is really faring pretty well. He still wants to tell her husband ASAP, but he also understands the need for time. My husband is really mad at my sister. Its to the point where he cannot stand to be in the same room with her. He is nice to her, but has a very superficial relationship with her. Its all about niceties and nothing more. That makes me sad sometimes, but it is what it is. She brought this on herself.

2of2--I agree, the likelihood of her stopping the affairs is not good. Odds are not in her favor, at least without some intensive mental heath experts helping her along. I kind of liken her situation to someone who is trying to stop smoking--if the smoker wants to quit, its hard, but do-able. When its external pressure forcing you to quit, you are setting yourself up for failure. I fear that I am her external pressure.

Lara--I agree with you and Isabelle totally. And, I unfortunately agree too about knowing if she has changed her behavior. I really don''t know how to get proof she is seeing a therapist--thats one area I am struggling with. I have zero trust for her already, and I really don''t know if I can believe her when she says she is getting help. I think I am going to have to judge it by her actions when she thinks noone is watching. If she is getting help, I think I would see other areas of her life changing for the positive as well. I guess time will tell.

Indy--sweetie, my heart just goes out to you. These kind of situations just totally suck, for lack of a better word. When reading your posts here, I have gathered so much strength from you. Hence why I think coining "go Indy on her butt" is just perfect!!! I am so glad you were able to remove yourself from that jerk, because I agree with you, you would have ended up like my BIL. And it breaks my heart that ANYONE would have to live a life with a deceitful partner like that. Bless you! OT here, but how are you doing? Keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

AGBF--thank you so much sweetie! Your posts are so thoughtful and really mean a lot to me! I agree with you 100% on not bringing in CPS. The system can be so brutal, and I would not want that path to be traveled unless I was 120% sure something was going on, and there were no other alternatives to getting the girls out of harms way. There are so many family members that would step in and take the girls out of the situation if it warranted. I have contemplated it many times personally! Thank you for your kind words!

Miraclesrule--girl, your post is an angle I hadn''t even thought of!! And I could totally see her doing something shady like that. She''d probably make up a bunch of crap just to sway and manipulate his mind. Sheesh, my sister is just a disaster! My BIL is a great guy, and I have a good relationship with him. My sister better keep her yap shut to him or she may face my wrath sooner rather than later!!!

I do think your post is a great reason as to why I have to allow her SOME time to get her life on track, but I cannot wait TOO long. It may backfire on me if I wait too long.

Vita*dolce--yep, I would let you call him in a heartbeat!!!

I will keep you all apprised of any updates as they happen--I hope she can stay on the straight and narrow until next week at least--her oldest daughter starts pre-school next Wednesday. I really want that day to be special for her and not have her mother ruin it for her.

 

[diamondfan]

I am so glad this thread helped you. You are in a predicament, that is for sure, there are facets and complications here and you cannot just make one choice without there being fallout somewhere else. I just think, based on what you have said, she is really messed up for whatever reason and needs guidance. She is of course going to feel a lot of different emotions, anger, resentment, fear...you hold a sort of power in this situation due to her confiding in you. Wheels have been set in motion as you become the bearer of this information. And I so feel for you, in a way this is a situation with no clear cut answers. The most important thing to me is the protecting the kids, and the health of your brother in law, as he could be exposed to something potentially fatal. Beyond that, I feel you need support too, for being in this tough spot.

I am happy that we were able to provide you a safe place to suss this out, and that it helped you in any way is great. Again, there are some clear moral and ethical issues, and personal relationships and quandries, and I really just feel for you that are in this mess. You have handled yourself really amazingly and I applaud you.

 

[FrekeChild]

Can I just ditto Diamondfan?

Seriously hairgirl. What you did and said to her took a tremendous amount of strength that a lot of people just don''t have.

I wish you luck.

 

[LaraOnline]

Shizen, now I''m thinking of course Miracles Rule is completely right, and that crazy relly will be killing your reputation with her husband. Hmmm...

 

[Isabelle]

Hairgirl, at the risk of sounding patronizing, I am really proud of you. You are doing the right thing. You have taken on a significant challenge out of love for your sister, her chilren, and your greater family. You are acting selflessly and in a way that shows me that your motives are all about helping your sister overcome this problem, not making things worse. You will probably have to push her into therapy and I would suggest that you ask the therapist for a private meeting as well where you can explain from your perspective what has been going on and how you have handled things so far. Your sister is a manipulator but she also knows she is totally in the wrong. She wants (I think) to get help and get better, but you are going to have to hold her feet to the fire.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 8/13/2008 11:37:25 PM
Author: hairgirl95
Good evening everyone--

Just wanted to say another thank you to all you guys. You have all been so great! Nothing much has changed today, except my sister is pretty much trying to account for EVERYTHING I do during the day. I think she is seriously keeping tabs on me to make sure I don''t talk to her husband. I wish I had her free time to track someone down like that!! Her husband was supposed to get a haircut from me this weekend and she rescheduled it to a time when she would be at home too. She''s pretty paranoid right now!

well, the upside to this is that she''ll be too busy to be cheating?!


however, you owe her no explanation regarding where/what you''re doing and i''d nip that in the bud right now. i''d be frank that i wasn''t the one cheating on my husband and i don''t owe her an explanation of my whereabouts.

i''d also expect her to be undermining your relationship with her husband in some verbal way.......in an attempt for him to disbelieve you should you ever go to him with HER history of cheating.

movie zombie

 

[vespergirl]

Wat a crappy situation. Sorry that I''m just jumping in so late here, but I wanted to say that I think you''re handling everything really well, considering the circumstances - it was awful that your sister put you in that position.

I have an anecdote of my own to share - I don''t know if it will help or not. My brother''s wife was cheating on him when they had a baby at home, and this is how everything went down. My SIL wasn''t doing a good job of hiding her infidelity, and was even making comments about hot guys, and wanting to get them into bed to me - she''s married to my brother! Anyway, my brother finally found out she was cheating (a mutual friend told him) and was furious - he took their son and went to stay with my parents. But then he decided that he didn''t want his son to have to go through the pain of a divorce, so he took the kid and went back. What he did do was sleep with a random woman on his next business trip (the "revenge" screw) and told his wife about it, as if to say, "how does that make you feel? I guess we''re even now."

You would think that this coudn''t possibly end well, but after that, they decided to go to marriage counseling - the affairs happened 8 years ago, and they recently celebrated their 10th wedding anniversary. So, I guess that sometimes getting all the dirty laundry out there can give the couple a clean slate to work with - almost like, there''s nowhere to go but up. I think that for my brother & his wife, they were committed to staying married regardless, so they found a way to make it work, but I don''t know if it would work for everyone ...

Anyway, I just wanted to say good luck to you, and I hope that this situation comes to a resolution soon ...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I really admire you, hairgirl, for the way you are handling this. You have had plenty of advice and I have already stated that I think her husband deserves to know since this is a reccurring problem . I just wanted to second or third the comment that involving the state child protective services is a very bad idea. Like Miracles, I was also a child advocate for awhile. As long as there is one competent parent, they have every right to try and protect their own children without involving a government agency. He hasn''t even had a chance to make a decision on what to do for these kids because he doesn''t know about his wife''s behavior. I think he needs to know as soon as possible due to the children.

The other thing I want to agree with is Isabelle''s comment that YOU will need to talk to this prospective therapist yourself. Number one, you have to have proof she is really seeing one, and number two, she is such a liar that you would have no reason to think she''d tell the whole truth to the therapist.

 

[appletini]

Hairgirl, I''m so sorry you are caught in the middle of this. Several people have been concerned about breaking up the family for the childrens sake. My parents were divorced when I was 3 (although not for that reason), but I barely remember its just sort of a fact. The girls are young enough that they won''t really remember any bad stuff, kids are very resilient. Also the older they get the harder it will be on them. If their parents stay married they are not creating a good marriage role model. I personally was more aware of what I wanted in a partner and not settling b/c of my parents. Where as I feel that later in life people whose parents had a bad marriage but stayed married are more apt to settle because they think that is normal. DHs parents also divorced when he was very young due to his dad''s infidelity, but that was the best that happend to his mom b/c DHs step dad is the most amazing man and by far a better father to him. So even though it may be tough now, it will definitely be the best decision in the long run.

 

[diamondfan]

I agree that the husband is in the dark and therefore until he knows it is not proper to bring in CPS. If BOTH of them were unfit it would be a different story. Once he does know, well, what he does and how she acts makes a bit difference here.

Also, I would NOT just blindly believe her. The fact is this someone who lies multiple times a day as a regular thing. She is also swinging from extremes of mood, because she knows inside she needs help but she is also resentful as hell at being told what to do with her life. She is perfectly happy with things the way they are. I would be surprised if she did not have highs and lows in this process, but I would also not just trust her that she is on track immediately. Almost like addicts lie and manipulate, this is something that has become second nature.

And, divorce is not usually a couple's goal, but in some cases it is the only viable option. I am not saying that they should get divorced, if he does end up finding out all of the details and can forgive her and she can stop what she is doing, maybe they can get through this all the stronger. But, if not, it will take work on the part of the parents and extended family, but it is not a guarantee that it will be the worst thing for the girls. I think it is better for the girls to have had their mom respect her marriage vows etc, but she did not, and if she cannot or will not change, status quo is not really acceptable or likely.