MOMS - Why did you decide to stay at home or continue working?

[Courtneylub]

Date: 11/19/2008 1:14:44 AM
Author: snlee
I am struggling with this decision right now. My maternity leave ends in February and right now I plan to go back to work full-time but it breaks my heart thinking about leaving my (then) 4 month old. I want to be there for every moment and I know I won''t be able to give my all if I''m working full-time. Being a mom is the toughest job ever but is so rewarding. In an ideal world, I would be a SAHM. But we really need the income and I enjoy the social aspect of work. I also worry that if I''m a SAHM, I''d have a lot of difficulty getting back into the work force when my children are older. I think working part-time or being a work at home mom would be great. I wish my company had a part time option for me but sadly, I don''t think that''s an option.

Haven, I know this is probably not that helpful to you. It''s great that you are thinking that far ahead but I don''t think that you can make a decision until you''re in the situation. I still have very mixed emotions about this!

Ditto to that snlee. I''m lucky that that''s my biggest concern. Even though DH''s income is enough to live off of, but it''s difficult to think what it wold be like without mine.

Reasons why I''m deciding to return to work even though my heart want different:

DH works Mon-Thurs only in the afternoons, so he will be with her in the mornings.

He coaches gymnastics at different schools and churches in one area. They all offer childcare and will give us discounts or may not even charge us. He will know the care providers and be either in the same building as her or at least close by.

I STILL want to stay home with her and I know I will feel even stronger about that once she''s here, but realistically I can return to work. The benefits outweigh anything else.

 

[Allisonfaye]

When I was a kid, my mom was in and out of the psychiatric hospital. My parents split when I was 8 and my older sisters left for college when I was 12 and again at 15. My mom took up drinking as a hobby when I was 11. I wanted to BE THERE for my kids. I am fortunate to be able to afford to be a SAHM. That''s why I do it.

 

[mimzy]

i *may* work part time for awhile when my kids are little, but there''s no way that i could give up my future job and still be intellectually satisfied.

i just want to throw out there that i was a latchkey kid (my single mom worked two jobs) and it never once occurred to me to think of her as less nurturing or less ''there for me'' than other moms who stayed home. we have an awesome awesome relationship and all my needs were met when i was young.

 

[iluvcarats]

I am going to chime in here with two more cents. My kids are 9 and 6, and I am ending my fertile years quickley, and grappling with the idea of #3. This time of life is so special, and part of me wanting #3 is that I miss those irretrievable baby years. But this thought process is coming with perspective. Would I have said this when I was 25? No way. My body was something that was supposed to "look good". I had no idea what it was capable of. Growing, feeding, loving and taking care of this new life who was completely dependant on me for survival. As I get closer to middle age, I appreciate all of this so much more than I did then. I try to picture myself at the end of my life, whether it is tommorrow or a long time from now, and think of what I did in my life that will make me the most proud, and it is raising a nice family, beacause I am the glue that keeps everything together. I don''t think at the end of my life I am going to say "I really wish I had a career and spent more time working."

 

[Elmorton]

I''m not a mom (far from it at this point), but since this thread seems to have a lot of the SAHM perspective, I''d like to share my experience as a kid of a working mom.

My mom is a high school teacher - we had our mornings together before she went to school, and she picked me up every day at 4:30 when I was little. I went to daycare - one good, two pretty lousy, but my parents were extremely attentive and pulled me from the two lousy ones rather quickly. A year or two before kindergarten, my parents sent me to Montessori school.

I am SO GLAD that I had that experience. Even as an adult, I''ll mention things to DH that I learned about art, music, monarchies, dinosaurs, plants, nature when I was in Montessori school. My classmates there also had (mostly) working parents who were just as involved in their children''s learning process. Our educational experience was so much more involved than I think any parent could have offered.

When I finally went to public school, I did have an afternoon care provider, and I''ll be honest that didn''t like it, but it was only for a couple of hours. As an only child, I really needed the socialization.

Both of my parents are educators, and as a result we had tons of quality time in the evenings, weekends, and summers. Yes, sometimes they had to grade, but as I got older, mom had a little GA to help I am intensely close with them. Both parents are passionate about what they do, and as a result, I wanted to find something to be passionate about as well. I think it''s true that fulfilled parents are good parents.

DH was also raised by working parents. His stepmother took care of 5 children and worked (for better insurance, not $). I cannot imagine how she did that, though DH was brought up that everyone did their share of the work. His parents cooked meals together, and the children were expected to clean up. Saturday mornings were when the family cleaned the house together. Our marriage very much resembles his upbringing in this way. Never does he assume that I do work because I am a woman - we share all duties (well...he probably does more than I do).

In our household, it''s not an option for me to be a SAHM, because at some point, I''m expected to be the breadwinner. While I understand that for some families, it makes sense from a financial standpoint for one person to stay home, I cannot grasp my mind around the idea of not working - nor do I think my DH would be comfortable with that. Should I be lucky enough to have children, I want my daughter or son to see both parents working successfully and modeling the values I hope they''ll have.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 11/20/2008 8:04:24 PM
Author: Elmorton
I''m not a mom (far from it at this point), but since this thread seems to have a lot of the SAHM perspective, I''d like to share my experience as a kid of a working mom.


My mom is a high school teacher - we had our mornings together before she went to school, and she picked me up every day at 4:30 when I was little. I went to daycare - one good, two pretty lousy, but my parents were extremely attentive and pulled me from the two lousy ones rather quickly. A year or two before kindergarten, my parents sent me to Montessori school.


I am SO GLAD that I had that experience. Even as an adult, I''ll mention things to DH that I learned about art, music, monarchies, dinosaurs, plants, nature when I was in Montessori school. My classmates there also had (mostly) working parents who were just as involved in their children''s learning process. Our educational experience was so much more involved than I think any parent could have offered.


When I finally went to public school, I did have an afternoon care provider, and I''ll be honest that didn''t like it, but it was only for a couple of hours. As an only child, I really needed the socialization.


Both of my parents are educators, and as a result we had tons of quality time in the evenings, weekends, and summers. Yes, sometimes they had to grade, but as I got older, mom had a little GA to help I am intensely close with them. Both parents are passionate about what they do, and as a result, I wanted to find something to be passionate about as well. I think it''s true that fulfilled parents are good parents.


DH was also raised by working parents. His stepmother took care of 5 children and worked (for better insurance, not $). I cannot imagine how she did that, though DH was brought up that everyone did their share of the work. His parents cooked meals together, and the children were expected to clean up. Saturday mornings were when the family cleaned the house together. Our marriage very much resembles his upbringing in this way. Never does he assume that I do work because I am a woman - we share all duties (well...he probably does more than I do).


In our household, it''s not an option for me to be a SAHM, because at some point, I''m expected to be the breadwinner. While I understand that for some families, it makes sense from a financial standpoint for one person to stay home, I cannot grasp my mind around the idea of not working - nor do I think my DH would be comfortable with that. Should I be lucky enough to have children, I want my daughter or son to see both parents working successfully and modeling the values I hope they''ll have.

Staying at home raising children *is* work. You just don''t get paid, and logic and reasoning don''t always work. What you are saying about values, well, I think I have them even though I don''t work. If you should be lucky enough to have children, why wouldn''t you want to raise them if you could? Are you saying that SAHMoms don''t contribute to society? That we don''t have the values of "working" people. I guess I am on the other side of the fence. I want my children to know what a pleasure it is to raise them so that they don''t hand off their children to some daycare provider.

 

[Elmorton]

I never meant to imply that stay at home moms don''t have values. But what I am saying is that when my parents talked about their professional lives (and when I was lucky enough to go see them at work), I was able to see in action a person who was slightly different than the person I saw at home. The values that they taught me at home (to study, learn, be engaging, help others, be humble, listen, reach out, be kind) were modeled through the behaviors I saw when I was able to see them at work. Yes, a SAHM can model that through her other commitments and volunteer work, but it is probably more difficult for her to do so since those commitments are typically not every day. I believe that my world view was expanded because I was able to see my parents at work. This was in integral part of how my parents raised me. And, I have to address this - to say that my parents didn''t raise me is a really ridiculous statement. Yes, I had different care providers, but my parents raised me - not a babysitter. I can barely remember care givers names or even toys that they had. Suggesting a care giver raised me is like me suggesting that if a SAHM lets a child watch a movie that she''s letting the TV raise her child. I remember very clearly the time I had with my parents - because the time we spent together was 100% quality time. My childhood was happy, full, and at no time did I ever get the idea that I was a "hassle" to raise - and, btw, a child can get that idea from a parent regardless what their occupation is.

In terms of the work of a parent - my parents traveled with me, taught me to read and write, worked on my homework with me, kept me fed and took care of all my needs. They did all of the work of a parent in addition to the job they held outside the home. I understand that staying at home takes a lot of work (I worked part-time last winter and I couldn''t believe how much time I spent just taking care of a home for me, a husband, and two cats) - but it''s not the same as parents who do all of that and work full-time outside of the home. I can understand why people would want to stay home with their children, and I understand what I will have to give up some time with my child or children to have a professional career outside of the home. But my parents (together) worked too hard to give me opportunities and an education for me to put that aside. And moreover, as a woman, I feel that my grandmothers worked too hard in the work force (in factory jobs, as a beautician - because these were jobs that women could have) to not see their granddaughter become a professional in a field that used to be dominated by men.

I just think it''s really sad that after all the work that women have had to do to be able to work outside the home, the choice is still sometimes reduced to "love your children and stay home" or "abandon your children and go to work." That shouldn''t be what this is about. I have been thankful to read in this thread that there are many who talk about doing what makes you feel fulfilled - and Haven, I think only you can answer what will be fulfilling work for you.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 11/20/2008 10:39:36 PM
Author: Elmorton
I never meant to imply that stay at home moms don''t have values. But what I am saying is that when my parents talked about their professional lives (and when I was lucky enough to go see them at work), I was able to see in action a person who was slightly different than the person I saw at home. The values that they taught me at home (to study, learn, be engaging, help others, be humble, listen, reach out, be kind) were modeled through the behaviors I saw when I was able to see them at work. Yes, a SAHM can model that through her other commitments and volunteer work, but it is probably more difficult for her to do so since those commitments are typically not every day. I believe that my world view was expanded because I was able to see my parents at work. This was in integral part of how my parents raised me. And, I have to address this - to say that my parents didn''t raise me is a really ridiculous statement. Yes, I had different care providers, but my parents raised me - not a babysitter. I can barely remember care givers names or even toys that they had. Suggesting a care giver raised me is like me suggesting that if a SAHM lets a child watch a movie that she''s letting the TV raise her child. I remember very clearly the time I had with my parents - because the time we spent together was 100% quality time. My childhood was happy, full, and at no time did I ever get the idea that I was a ''hassle'' to raise - and, btw, a child can get that idea from a parent regardless what their occupation is.


In terms of the work of a parent - my parents traveled with me, taught me to read and write, worked on my homework with me, kept me fed and took care of all my needs. They did all of the work of a parent in addition to the job they held outside the home. I understand that staying at home takes a lot of work (I worked part-time last winter and I couldn''t believe how much time I spent just taking care of a home for me, a husband, and two cats) - but it''s not the same as parents who do all of that and work full-time outside of the home. I can understand why people would want to stay home with their children, and I understand what I will have to give up some time with my child or children to have a professional career outside of the home. But my parents (together) worked too hard to give me opportunities and an education for me to put that aside. And moreover, as a woman, I feel that my grandmothers worked too hard in the work force (in factory jobs, as a beautician - because these were jobs that women could have) to not see their granddaughter become a professional in a field that used to be dominated by men.


I just think it''s really sad that after all the work that women have had to do to be able to work outside the home, the choice is still sometimes reduced to ''love your children and stay home'' or ''abandon your children and go to work.'' That shouldn''t be what this is about. I have been thankful to read in this thread that there are many who talk about doing what makes you feel fulfilled - and Haven, I think only you can answer what will be fulfilling work for you.

We are clearly not on the same page here. Being a SAHM *is* volunteer work. All the time. It is a job where your employees often have tantrums several time a day, and you can''t fire them, and you can''t quit. You have to teach them patience which is often hard to do on very little sleep. They are like little sponges, and they absorb everything they see. Just when you think all your patience has run out, you have to reach deeper and find some more, because they model your actions and they parrot your words. I gave birth to them, so I feel it is my responsibility to raise them.

Did your grandmothers want to work in a factory, or were they wishing that they could be home raising their families?

I suppose this is a moot conversation since you don''t have any children, and you really cannot know how you will feel about this until you do. I certainly wouldn''t fathom to know everything, or even anything about your job. How can I? I have no experience with it.

 

[Demelza]

Date: 11/20/2008 10:39:36 PM
Author: Elmorton
I never meant to imply that stay at home moms don't have values. But what I am saying is that when my parents talked about their professional lives (and when I was lucky enough to go see them at work), I was able to see in action a person who was slightly different than the person I saw at home. The values that they taught me at home (to study, learn, be engaging, help others, be humble, listen, reach out, be kind) were modeled through the behaviors I saw when I was able to see them at work. Yes, a SAHM can model that through her other commitments and volunteer work, but it is probably more difficult for her to do so since those commitments are typically not every day. I believe that my world view was expanded because I was able to see my parents at work. This was in integral part of how my parents raised me. And, I have to address this - to say that my parents didn't raise me is a really ridiculous statement. Yes, I had different care providers, but my parents raised me - not a babysitter. I can barely remember care givers names or even toys that they had. Suggesting a care giver raised me is like me suggesting that if a SAHM lets a child watch a movie that she's letting the TV raise her child. I remember very clearly the time I had with my parents - because the time we spent together was 100% quality time. My childhood was happy, full, and at no time did I ever get the idea that I was a 'hassle' to raise - and, btw, a child can get that idea from a parent regardless what their occupation is.


In terms of the work of a parent - my parents traveled with me, taught me to read and write, worked on my homework with me, kept me fed and took care of all my needs. They did all of the work of a parent in addition to the job they held outside the home. I understand that staying at home takes a lot of work (I worked part-time last winter and I couldn't believe how much time I spent just taking care of a home for me, a husband, and two cats) - but it's not the same as parents who do all of that and work full-time outside of the home. I can understand why people would want to stay home with their children, and I understand what I will have to give up some time with my child or children to have a professional career outside of the home. But my parents (together) worked too hard to give me opportunities and an education for me to put that aside. And moreover, as a woman, I feel that my grandmothers worked too hard in the work force (in factory jobs, as a beautician - because these were jobs that women could have) to not see their granddaughter become a professional in a field that used to be dominated by men.


I just think it's really sad that after all the work that women have had to do to be able to work outside the home, the choice is still sometimes reduced to 'love your children and stay home' or 'abandon your children and go to work.' That shouldn't be what this is about. I have been thankful to read in this thread that there are many who talk about doing what makes you feel fulfilled - and Haven, I think only you can answer what will be fulfilling work for you.

I agree with you that the choice should not be "love your children and stay home" or "abandon them and go to work". That said, you seem to be making a similarly false binary -- "go to work and model good values for your children" or "stay at home and fall short". I am a full-time mom. I also have 2 graduate degrees and consider myself to have taken full advantage of the opportunities afforded me -- that includes staying at home with my child. I chose to be a full-time mom simply because it feels right. I'm lucky to have the choice. Do I think my child is suffering any because she doesn't see me working outside the home? No. Would she be suffering if I did work outside the home? No. Why does one have to be better than the other?

Taking care of a young child is a full-time job. In fact, in my experience so far, it's really a 24/7 job. And that DOES NOT include doing ANY household work. With all due respect, taking care of a home and two cats is not at all what being a full-time parent is about. My husband and I share household responsibilities for the simple fact that I don't have time to get them all done myself. I realize it's virtually impossible to comprehend the magnitude of what it means to care for a child day in and day out unless you have one (I certainly couldn't), but I can assure you it's not for the faint of heart. I really take exception to this statement: "I understand that staying at home takes a lot of work (I worked part-time last winter and I couldn't believe how much time I spent just taking care of a home for me, a husband, and two cats) - but it's not the same as parents who do all of that and work full-time outside of the home." Forgive me if I've misunderstood you, but you seem to be saying that parents who work outside the home simply work harder because they do both. Well, the reality is that no one can do both...not fully anyway.

Finally, I don't think choosing to be a full-time parent is in any way a slap in the face to the feminist movement. In fact, quite the opposite. In an ideal world, women would feel free to make whatever choice is right for them without fear of judgement. I don't in any way feel that I've wasted my education or my opportunities simply because I'm a full-time mom right now. There's plenty of time to have a career later on, but my daughter will be 2 only once.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 11/21/2008 12:56:32 AM
Author: Demelza

Date: 11/20/2008 10:39:36 PM
Author: Elmorton
I never meant to imply that stay at home moms don''t have values. But what I am saying is that when my parents talked about their professional lives (and when I was lucky enough to go see them at work), I was able to see in action a person who was slightly different than the person I saw at home. The values that they taught me at home (to study, learn, be engaging, help others, be humble, listen, reach out, be kind) were modeled through the behaviors I saw when I was able to see them at work. Yes, a SAHM can model that through her other commitments and volunteer work, but it is probably more difficult for her to do so since those commitments are typically not every day. I believe that my world view was expanded because I was able to see my parents at work. This was in integral part of how my parents raised me. And, I have to address this - to say that my parents didn''t raise me is a really ridiculous statement. Yes, I had different care providers, but my parents raised me - not a babysitter. I can barely remember care givers names or even toys that they had. Suggesting a care giver raised me is like me suggesting that if a SAHM lets a child watch a movie that she''s letting the TV raise her child. I remember very clearly the time I had with my parents - because the time we spent together was 100% quality time. My childhood was happy, full, and at no time did I ever get the idea that I was a ''hassle'' to raise - and, btw, a child can get that idea from a parent regardless what their occupation is.


In terms of the work of a parent - my parents traveled with me, taught me to read and write, worked on my homework with me, kept me fed and took care of all my needs. They did all of the work of a parent in addition to the job they held outside the home. I understand that staying at home takes a lot of work (I worked part-time last winter and I couldn''t believe how much time I spent just taking care of a home for me, a husband, and two cats) - but it''s not the same as parents who do all of that and work full-time outside of the home. I can understand why people would want to stay home with their children, and I understand what I will have to give up some time with my child or children to have a professional career outside of the home. But my parents (together) worked too hard to give me opportunities and an education for me to put that aside. And moreover, as a woman, I feel that my grandmothers worked too hard in the work force (in factory jobs, as a beautician - because these were jobs that women could have) to not see their granddaughter become a professional in a field that used to be dominated by men.


I just think it''s really sad that after all the work that women have had to do to be able to work outside the home, the choice is still sometimes reduced to ''love your children and stay home'' or ''abandon your children and go to work.'' That shouldn''t be what this is about. I have been thankful to read in this thread that there are many who talk about doing what makes you feel fulfilled - and Haven, I think only you can answer what will be fulfilling work for you.

I agree with you that the choice should not be ''love your children and stay home'' or ''abandon them and go to work''. That said, you seem to be making a similarly false binary -- ''go to work and model good values for your children'' or ''stay at home and fall short''. I am a full-time mom. I also have 2 graduate degrees and consider myself to have taken full advantage of the opportunities afforded me -- that includes staying at home with my child. I chose to be a full-time mom simply because it feels right. I''m lucky to have the choice. Do I think my child is suffering any because she doesn''t see me working outside the home? No. Would she be suffering if I did work outside the home? No. Why does one have to be better than the other?

Taking care of a young child is a full-time job. In fact, in my experience so far, it''s really a 24/7 job. And that DOES NOT include doing ANY household work. With all due respect, taking care of a home and two cats is not at all what being a full-time parent is about. My husband and I share household responsibilities for the simple fact that I don''t have time to get them all done myself. I realize it''s virtually impossible to comprehend the magnitude of what it means to care for a child day in and day out unless you have one (I certainly couldn''t), but I can assure you it''s not for the faint of heart. I really take exception to this statement: ''I understand that staying at home takes a lot of work (I worked part-time last winter and I couldn''t believe how much time I spent just taking care of a home for me, a husband, and two cats) - but it''s not the same as parents who do all of that and work full-time outside of the home.'' Forgive me if I''ve misunderstood you, but you seem to be saying that parents who work outside the home simply work harder because they do both. Well, the reality is that no one can do both...not fully anyway.

Finally, I don''t think choosing to be a full-time parent is in any way a slap in the face to the feminist movement. In fact, quite the opposite. In an ideal world, women would feel free to make whatever choice is right for them without fear of judgement. I don''t in any way feel that I''ve wasted my education or my opportunities simply because I''m a full-time mom right now. There''s plenty of time to have a career later on, but my daughter will be 2 only once.

Demelza, the highlighted portion of your response echoes my sentiments exactly. I guess that I am a big believer in doing different things, and having different priorities, during different seasons of life. And as far as the feminist movement goes, in my mid-20s, I spent two years as the president of my local chapter of the National Organization for Women. When I was single, my professional career was my priority and took up the bulk of my time and energy. Now that I am the mother of a toddler, my priority is my son, and I am choosing to be his primary caregiver until he is in full-day school. It''s only 5 years away from the working world, but everyone knows that the first few years are the most formative of a child''s life. For our family, it was important that my husband and I be the primary caregivers during those very impresionable years. Once my children are in school all day, I will be happy to go back to work, hopefully in a more flexible career than I had before. I think that a lot of women from my generation (Generation X) are not accepting the old baby boomer feminist mentality that I have to "work like a man" to be taken seriously in the office, and are more interested in flexible work hours so that our families also get the benefit of having us around when they need us. My family is a priority, and my job will be again someday as well. But, as a mother, I will be there when my children need me (and seriously, I think this country should have mandatory 1 year maternity leave) and I will go back to work once my children are more self-sufficient.

 

[Haven]

This has really evolved into a great discussion, thank you ladies.

El--I agree with you that the issue isn't between staying home and "raising" your children vs. working and having other people raise them. I've seen a lot of people do a fabulous job raising their children while working, and I've seen a lot of people do a not-so-great job raising their children while staying home to do so. And vice versa.

I also struggle with the fact that my parents worked hard so I could have opportunities for a good education and a fulfilling career, and if I stay home am I giving up those advantages? I'm not sure what I believe about that, and the issue reminds me of the Julia Roberts movie, Mona Lisa Smile.

Here, Julia Roberts (Katherine Watson) is giving a lecture to a class of Wellesley students:

Betty Warren: [Betty's Third Editorial Voice Over] Wellesley girls who are married have become quite adept at balancing their obligations. One hears such comments as, "I'm able to baste the chicken with one hand and outline the paper with the other." While our mothers were called to the workforce for lady liberty it is our duty, nay, obligation to reclaim our place in the home bearing the children that will carry our traditions into the future. One must pause to consider why; Ms. Katherine Watson, instructor in the art history department, has decided to declare war on the holy sacrament of marriage. Her subversive and political teachings encourage our Wellesley girls to reject the roles they were born to fill.
Katherine Watson: Slide - Contemporary art...
Connie Baker: No, that's just an advertisement...
Katherine Watson: Quiet. Today you just listen. What will future scholars see when they study us, a portrait of women today? There you are ladies: the perfect likeness of a Wellesley graduate, Magna Cum Laude, doing exactly what she was trained to do. Slide - a Rhodes Scholar, I wonder if she recites Chaucer while she presses her husband's shirts. Slide - hehe, now you physics majors can calculate the mass and volume of every meatloaf you make. Slide - A girdle to set you free. What does that mean? What does that mean? What does it mean? I give up, you win. The smartest women in the country, I didn't realize that by demanding excellence I would be challenging... what did it say?
[Walks over to a student and picks up her copy of the editorial]
Katherine Watson: What did it say? Um... the roles you were born to fill. Is that right?
[Looks up at Betty]
Katherine Watson: The roles you were born to fill? It's, uh, it's my mistake.
[Katerine drops the student's paper back onto her desk]
Katherine Watson: Class dismissed.
[Katherine walks out of the classroom]

At this point, Katherine Watson's student has chosen to marry and raise a family over attending Yale Law School:

Joan Brandwyn: It was my choice... not to go. He would have supported it.
Katherine Watson: But you don't have to choose.
Joan Brandwyn: No, I have to. I want a home; I want a family, that's not something I'll sacrifice.
Katherine Watson: No-one's asking you to sacrifice that, Joan, I just want you to understand you can do both.
Joan Brandwyn: Do you think I'll wake up one morning and regret not being a lawyer?
Katherine Watson: Yes, I'm afraid that you will.
Joan Brandwyn: Not as much as I regret not having a family, not being there to raise them. I know exactly what I'm doing and it doesn't make me any less smart.
[Katherine looks down]
Joan Brandwyn: This must seem terrible to you.
Katherine Watson: I didn't say that.
Joan Brandwyn: Sure you did. You always do. You stand in class and tell us to look beyond the image, but you don't. To you a housewife is someone who sold her soul for a center hall colonial. She has no depth, no intellect, no interests. You're the one who said I could do anything I wanted. This is what I want.
Katherine Watson: [hugs Joan] Congratulations. Be happy.

 

[Haven]

Demelza, I really liked your post.

I''m often shocked at the dismissive tone some people (NOT here, I''m talking about real-life situations) use when talking to or about SAHMs. I hear this from colleagues or acquaintances, mostly, and it seems like people think women who choose to stay home are lazy, or have nothing to contribute to society, or couldn''t hack it in the "real world" so they stay home, sleep in, and work out all day. As I said, these things shock me.

Five years ago I would have never asked this question. I would have never entertained the idea of staying home with my children. I love my job; it gives me the opportunity to study and discuss literature in depth and on a regular basis. Reading and studying literature have been the greatest joys of my life. I have traveled to different places and times, some real and some that never existed, and I have done all of it through books. I''ve had discussions, debates, and arguments with colleagues who share my passion and interest, and I''ve spent countless hours researching ideas and developing my own understanding of the world. However, after 22 years of voracious reading, a BA degree and two master''s degrees, I find myself feeling like I''d be missing out on something if I didn''t stay home with my children. Which is why I asked this question of you, because I really appreciate hearing your thoughts and reflections about the choices you made, or plan to make.

And yes, I understand that I have to be in the situation to know what it feels like, and I''m positive that Mr. Haven and I will figure out what works best for us. But I really do like hearing your thoughts, I don''t expect anyone to answer this question for me.

Thank you.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 11/21/2008 11:11:24 AM
Author: Haven
Demelza, I really liked your post.

I''m often shocked at the dismissive tone some people (NOT here, I''m talking about real-life situations) use when talking to or about SAHMs. I hear this from colleagues or acquaintances, mostly, and it seems like people think women who choose to stay home are lazy, or have nothing to contribute to society, or couldn''t hack it in the ''real world'' so they stay home, sleep in, and work out all day. As I said, these things shock me.

There''s always a "battle" between SAHMs and working moms. I''ve heard that dismissive attitude as well from moms that work that think SAHMs have nothing to contribute and assume all they want to do is bake and serve their children.

However, I''ve also heard the condesending tones of SAHMs (also not on here) that treat working moms as though they are the worst women in the world because they "choose" to work rather than spend time with their families and make little jabs that their families "suffer" because of it.

I think in both cases, these women are making up for something. The working moms that say this feel somewhat guilty and try to make themselves feel better by saying that SAHMs don''t contribute to soceity. And SAHMs that make those comments above sometimes feel trapped in their own home and feel like they are missing out in the real world so they justify by saying that its more important for them to be home.

But in the majority of cases, I think all moms have a mutual respect because they understand each other in a way that only moms can. And what you learn from home will always vary based on the person. My experience with my mom being a SAHM didn''t teach me the value of being at home (although I will say time and time again that I really loved having her home when I was there). It taught me the importance of a woman having a career that she can fall on in the event that she is left alone. Actually, the reason why I''m so career driven was seeing how much my mom suffered for being a SAHM for all those years and not building a career and then having to throw herself into the workforce when my father passed (not to mention also learn how to drive

, balance a checkbook, etc.). On the other hand, having my mom at home taught my brothers that when they get married they''d rather have a good, successful career so that their wives can stay at home and take care of the children. To each its own.

 

[Bia]

Ideally, I'd like to have a job close to home so I can pop in whenever I want to see my kids. In a perfect world, it will be my mother or my MIL that takes care of my children when we are working. However, since it is very possble thngs will not work out as perfectly as that, I may have to do some type of sitting or day care situation (even though I really don't want to!).

In my case, my parents own a business so my mother had a lot of flexibility when we were babies. She stayed home with me until I was 3 and 1/2 and then she got a "nanny" (a family friend's niece) to take care of my brother and I. She would pop in a few times a day to make sure things were okay. One day she came home unexpectedly (she said she liked to do that just incase) and found my nanny and me outside by the pool while my brother (he was a year old) was in his crib screaming his head off. She said she fired the nanny on the spot and stayed home for another two years. Once my brother was talking we did a babysitter again, but she was a close friend of my grandmothers and was excellent.

My mother was always around, so I never felt neglected, but she did want to continue to work on some capacity. I'd like to be able to do both but if I can't we'll have to do whats in the best interest of our children, right?

I guess we'll see.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I am kind of offended. Being a SAHM does NOT make me less of a person. Those statements OBVIOUSLY come from someone who does not have children. Iluv said in a previous post something I agree 100% with. On my deathbed I will not wish I had done more projects, made more money, worked harder...it will be the time I spent with my family...that''s what I will be thinking about. I would only regret the time I could of spent with them and didn''t. I have never judged working moms. In fact I am kind of anti judging in general. I am SICK of the slack SAHMs get. It is HARD work. It is IMPORTANT work. It is REWARDING work.

In a *perfect* world working moms work b/c they love it NOT b/c they need the money. I think we have both types here. But do not be fooled that career advances always equal the benefit and privilege I feel everyday I get to spend with my daughter.

 

[TravelingGal]

This is ridiculous. Mothers spend way too much time judging mothers (and I include myself in this, since I am one.) When we give birth, it mean genes must beat up the nice ones...survival of the fittest or something. Seriously, who cares what other mothers do, whether it be going to work or staying home? Some moms actually WANT to go to work and get away from the kid for sanity''s sake. Other moms think those moms are insane. I say whatever makes a mom happy - happy mom, happy kid.

I love being a career woman. I am successful at what I do, and before I had Amelia, I DETESTED the thought of being a stay at home. No way. I had my identity and wanted to keep it that way.

Having a kid trumped it all for me. I could never have imagined LOVE LIKE THIS, even though everyone keeps telling you that you will be amazed at how much you can love a human being. Now it is only because I want to give her the best that I do work (want to buy a house so she can have a room, yard, etc), but really - the best thing for her is me being around, which is why I am so blessed to be able to work from home. But if we could afford it, no doubt, I''d be a SAHM and devote 100% of my energies to her. It is the best, most amazing, most rewarding, sometimes boring, infuriating and annoying job ever.

I am a mother before a career woman at heart now and she is my truest love.

For those of you who don''t have kids and think you will be this way and that when you have them...well, that might well be true (I know I am how I thought I''d be for a lot of things). But I can guarantee you, nothing can prepare you for the all consuming love you will feel for your child. Nothing. Not even the love you feel for your man. In a totally different ballpark. Not better, just totally different. Pure joy, deliriously bursting, on your knees humbling, mind boggling, WONDROUS love.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Date: 11/21/2008 10:18:15 PM
Author: TravelingGal
This is ridiculous. Mothers spend way too much time judging mothers (and I include myself in this, since I am one.) When we give birth, it mean genes must beat up the nice ones...survival of the fittest or something. Seriously, who cares what other mothers do, whether it be going to work or staying home? Some moms actually WANT to go to work and get away from the kid for sanity''s sake. Other moms think those moms are insane. I say whatever makes a mom happy - happy mom, happy kid.

I love being a career woman. I am successful at what I do, and before I had Amelia, I DETESTED the thought of being a stay at home. No way. I had my identity and wanted to keep it that way.

Having a kid trumped it all for me. I could never have imagined LOVE LIKE THIS, even though everyone keeps telling you that you will be amazed at how much you can love a human being. Now it is only because I want to give her the best that I do work (want to buy a house so she can have a room, yard, etc), but really - the best thing for her is me being around, which is why I am so blessed to be able to work from home. But if we could afford it, no doubt, I''d be a SAHM and devote 100% of my energies to her. It is the best, most amazing, most rewarding, sometimes boring, infuriating and annoying job ever.

I am a mother before a career woman at heart now and she is my truest love.

For those of you who don''t have kids and think you will be this way and that when you have them...well, that might well be true (I know I am how I thought I''d be for a lot of things). But I can guarantee you, nothing can prepare you for the all consuming love you will feel for your child. Nothing. Not even the love you feel for your man. In a totally different ballpark. Not better, just totally different. Pure joy, deliriously bursting, on your knees humbling, mind boggling, WONDROUS love.

Not to detract from the topic here (and by the way, I pray I''m able to be a full time mommy, because it''s been the desire of my heart for years now and I think it truly is important for a child to have a parent home raising them, rather than someone they don''t see again after year 5 of their life), but TGal, wow. That sentence. Tears. Actual tears, hoping for that day, those years of love for this little person you get the profound honor of helping to grow into a good person, a person with strength and integrity.

It''s awesome to see your words explaining how things changed for you (not just job-wise) upon entering motherhood. I think it''s true for everyone, and well expressed in your post.

 

[TravelingGal]

Ha Fisher. It's insane...it truly is kind of cuckoo. I pride myself in being a rational person, but Motherhood makes you a bit off kilter.

I'm a closet baby hair sniffer. I'll just hold her and take little whiffs from time to time and nuzzle the crown of her head. I'll look up her nose for boogers, and just be amazed when they next day they aren't there any more and I know I never fished them out.

And how many times can you stare at a baby's fingers and toes? And think it's just the coolest thing ever when they wiggle them this way and that. And then you think, this isn't really interesting, is it? But it is. It's FASCINATING.

I feel a little weird for losing my mind, but I figure this is what a drug high is like. Nuts, but sooooo gooooood.

I really hope that you will soon get your high Fisher...I know you've been wanting it for a long time.

 

[Miranda]

Date: 11/21/2008 10:53:43 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Ha Fisher. It''s insane...it truly is kind of cuckoo. I pride myself in being a rational person, but Motherhood makes you a bit off kilter.

I''m a closet baby hair sniffer. I''ll just hold her and take little whiffs from time to time and nuzzle the crown of her head. I''ll look up her nose for boogers, and just be amazed when they next day they aren''t there any more and I know I never fished them out.

And how many times can you stare at a baby''s fingers and toes? And think it''s just the coolest thing ever when they wiggle them this way and that. And then you think, this isn''t really interesting, is it? But it is. It''s FASCINATING.

I feel a little weird for losing my mind, but I figure this is what a drug high is like. Nuts, but sooooo gooooood.

I really hope that you will soon get your high Fisher...I know you''ve been wanting it for a long time.

*pssst* Wait until she is no longer a baby...and you know you''ve had your very last baby. You''ll find yourself pathetic, like me, sniffing the heads of your friends'' babies. Reminding yourself of how lovely babies are and how much you miss those difficult, yet blissful months of babyhood!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 11/21/2008 10:18:15 PM
Author: TravelingGal
This is ridiculous. Mothers spend way too much time judging mothers (and I include myself in this, since I am one.) When we give birth, it mean genes must beat up the nice ones...survival of the fittest or something. Seriously, who cares what other mothers do, whether it be going to work or staying home? Some moms actually WANT to go to work and get away from the kid for sanity''s sake. Other moms think those moms are insane. I say whatever makes a mom happy - happy mom, happy kid.

I love being a career woman. I am successful at what I do, and before I had Amelia, I DETESTED the thought of being a stay at home. No way. I had my identity and wanted to keep it that way.

Having a kid trumped it all for me. I could never have imagined LOVE LIKE THIS, even though everyone keeps telling you that you will be amazed at how much you can love a human being. Now it is only because I want to give her the best that I do work (want to buy a house so she can have a room, yard, etc), but really - the best thing for her is me being around, which is why I am so blessed to be able to work from home. But if we could afford it, no doubt, I''d be a SAHM and devote 100% of my energies to her. It is the best, most amazing, most rewarding, sometimes boring, infuriating and annoying job ever.

I am a mother before a career woman at heart now and she is my truest love.

For those of you who don''t have kids and think you will be this way and that when you have them...well, that might well be true (I know I am how I thought I''d be for a lot of things). But I can guarantee you, nothing can prepare you for the all consuming love you will feel for your child. Nothing. Not even the love you feel for your man. In a totally different ballpark. Not better, just totally different. Pure joy, deliriously bursting, on your knees humbling, mind boggling, WONDROUS love.

You made me cry with this post. Truly, this is why people really can''t comment meaningfully until they have a baby. You''ve explained it perfectly.

I stayed home or worked part-time when my kids were little. I teach special ed. so always had the option of working half-time. After they were all in school, I eventually started teaching 4 days a week. My work is very rewarding (I teach dyslexic children to read), but my family is still my first priority. I am blessed to have a job that allows me to leave at 3:30 and I have all the same holidays and summers off with my kids. I''ll probably teach one more year and then just privately tutor out of my home a couple of afternoons a week because I love what I do and there is such a need for it. There is no way I could have imagined leaving my children 45 hours a week 50 weeks out of the year. As someone else said, you can''t do it all, something will suffer. Finding balance is going to be different for everyone. And even if staying home full-time, you can pursue hobbies and other interests as well as friendships with other mothers to give you some outlets. I think the people who say they hated staying home sometimes just did not ever make these connections which keep one from feeling isolated. One thing I can say for sure about working is that it is no fun getting a little baby up in the dark and taking them out on a cold January morning to a sitter! Ugh!!!

Haven, in your case, you could probably tutor high school students in writing or even teach a class or two at a community college if you wanted to keep your hand in your field. But since you do not need to work for financial reasons, I''d encourage you to consider staying home while your children are small..that time goes by in a flash!

 

[Haven]

Date: 11/21/2008 8:41:14 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring
I am kind of offended. Being a SAHM does NOT make me less of a person. Those statements OBVIOUSLY come from someone who does not have children. Iluv said in a previous post something I agree 100% with. On my deathbed I will not wish I had done more projects, made more money, worked harder...it will be the time I spent with my family...that's what I will be thinking about. I would only regret the time I could of spent with them and didn't. I have never judged working moms. In fact I am kind of anti judging in general. I am SICK of the slack SAHMs get. It is HARD work. It is IMPORTANT work. It is REWARDING work.


In a *perfect* world working moms work b/c they love it NOT b/c they need the money. I think we have both types here. But do not be fooled that career advances always equal the benefit and privilege I feel everyday I get to spend with my daughter.

Wait, Tacori--are you offended by my post? If so, I think I was not clear, and I apologize.
I said I am SHOCKED by the nasty comments I often hear about SAHMs. And unfortunately, I do hear them a lot. And most of the time they come from colleagues of mine who chose to work (and earn PhDs or EdDs) after having children. It is sad, but unfortunately very true. Even our own MC posted a while ago about how mean some family members are to her about being a SAHM mom, and I believe those family members were women with children. I think it's horrible.

I also said "However, after 22 years of voracious reading, a BA degree and two master's degrees, I find myself feeling like I'd be missing out on something if I didn't stay home with my children." It's true. The closer we get to having kids, the more I realize that I want to be a SAHM. However, I was just looking for some perspective from other women so I could hear how they feel about their choice.

I didn't start out this thread saying that I want to be a SAHM because I didn't want to affect the types of responses people posted. I wanted to hear honest reflections about the choices people made. Do I think I'll regret not putting in 30 years of teaching at the end of my life? No. Do I love my job? Yes. I cannot imagine another job that I would like more (except for opening my Haven), however I still think I'm going to stay at home.

Do I still have some nagging doubts? Yes. I worked very hard for my education, and for my job. I've established myself among educators in our area, I've created a reading program from the ground up and now I get to see the fruit of that labor. It isn't exactly easy to leave a job that I love. I think this would be an easier decision if I hadn't found a career that really fulfills me.

TGal--I love your post. I agree that mothers spend way too much time judging mothers. I used to run a religious school, and the amount of open nastiness that went on among our preschool kids' moms was ridiculous.
And what you said about that all-consuming love? Please pass the hanky, Fisher. Beautiful.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Haven, I was actually referring to Elmorton''s posts. You asked why moms decided to work or stay at home. I guess explaining your own childhood is valid but it irks me that women w/o children seem to put down the SAHMs the most. Like TGal said so beautifully you do NOT know how you are going to react until you have your own child. In my circle of friends EVERY mom I know that went back to work full time was so upset about it. Even hard core "career women." Obviously *you* only know the right decision for *you* but don''t be fooled in thinking you can make that choice now before the child is born.

(BTW I meant that as a universal "you" not just directed at Haven)

 

[Haven]

Oh, good. Thanks, Tacori.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Haven, you will make the right decisions (no matter what that decision is). That is wonderful you love your work so much and I know you will love your role as mother one day. Parenting is SO personal and everyone thinks they have the right answers

Moms do get judged but hey, at least if it is from other moms they have more personal experience on the subject! I had one of my SIL''s friends comment how I don''t have money, it is my DH''s money and basically made me feel like a mooch!

I shouldn''t have let it get to me b/c she is not married (so doesn''t understand the partnership that forms) and doesn''t have kids (so she doesn''t understand the WORK it is to raise them) so basically she is a moron

 

[iluvcarats]

Haven, is there the possibility that you can work part time, or job share with a colleague?

 

[mrssalvo]

Haven, try now to worry too much about it until the time really comes. I have so many friends who actually planned to go back to work full time after their maternity ended and once the baby was here they found they just couldn''t do it. Others opted to return to work or go back on a part-time bases. you really won''t know exactly how you will feel until you are holding your own little one in your arms.

tgal-i do the same baby sniffing with jake. I think b/c I know he''s my last I just try to cherish every single moment I have with him. Having an almost 7 year old, and one that will be 5 in a few weeks, i know first hand how the time will fly by and he will be in school full time b/f I know it.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Haven, I plan to go back to work half time when my daughter is 1, in May. At that point, for 2.5 days a week, Amelia will go to work with her daddy, because there is a very, very good day care facilty in his office. He''ll be able to spend time with her on the commute (45 mins on the train, she LOVES trains) and he''ll take her out for lunch. I''m ok with that, just. I would prefer to be with her all day every day, and so would he. In reality though, I need to be who I am as well as being her mommy (not that it''s either/or). My mother had a professional job and I''m proud of her intelligence and achievements. I want my girl to be proud of me too, and I want her to know she can do anything that she wants. I think working part time is a nice balance for me. It lets me have the things I get from my job (satisfaction, a bit of a buzz sometimes, interaction with grown ups and let''s face it, a fair bit of money) but still lets me have a good bit of time at home with my girl.

One thing about this discussion that I find interesting is that this is about SAHMs v working moms. What about fathers? DH works three days a week at the moment, because he wants to be there for his little girl in exactly the same way I do. He wants to see her ''firsts'' and be there to hang out with her, change diapers, hold her when she cries, laugh with her, make her lunch, listen to her babble, all of it. Everything that I want. We''re seriously broke

but we are equal parents. If you want to work and you want a SAHparent for your children, can you share the hours between you? It wouldn''t work for everyone, but just a suggestion.

I''m sad to think that people''s choices are judged and found wanting. We''re all doing the best we can for our children, but that needn''t be the same model for everyone. From what I know of the Mommies here on PS, there isn''t one of us who isn''t doing THE MOST AMAZING JOB of raising our kids. Haven, once you have your baby, maybe it will be clearer what you need to do. His/ her personality will be a big factor. Amelia will adore day care, when we took her to see it and check it out, she was really, really excited. If she had been upset by it, I would maybe make a different decision. Whatever you decide, there will be pros and cons, but your little one will thrive because s/he has a loving mommy!

Jen

 

[Haven]

Date: 11/22/2008 10:30:44 AM
Author: Tacori E-ring
Haven, you will make the right decisions (no matter what that decision is). That is wonderful you love your work so much and I know you will love your role as mother one day. Parenting is SO personal and everyone thinks they have the right answers

Moms do get judged but hey, at least if it is from other moms they have more personal experience on the subject! I had one of my SIL''s friends comment how I don''t have money, it is my DH''s money and basically made me feel like a mooch!

I shouldn''t have let it get to me b/c she is not married (so doesn''t understand the partnership that forms) and doesn''t have kids (so she doesn''t understand the WORK it is to raise them) so basically she is a moron

Ugh, I''ve heard this, too. A friend''s husband says things to that effect quite often, as in "Why does this card say the gift''s from Leslie? Doesn''t she stay at home while her husband works? That means it''s from her husband, not her." It''s really awful. One of these days I''m going to get into a row with him over one of his stupid comments. I''ve learned that everyone will have an opinion on the choices others make, regardless of whether they are valid or welcome.

I do agree that none of us can really comment (with any authority, at least) until we are moms. (That''s actually why I titled the post "MOMS -") Although, I do value everyone''s input, and it is interesting to hear from other women who are facing similar choices in the near future, as well as those who were raised one way or the other.

I must admit, the more we write about this on here, the more excited I am to start our family. If we''re lucky enough to have children one day, I''m certain that it is going to be the best experience of our lives.

Thank you for sharing so much, Tacori, I really value all of your input on this subject.

 

[Haven]

Date: 11/22/2008 10:30:44 AM
Author: iluvcarats
Haven, is there the possibility that you can work part time, or job share with a colleague?

Possibly. My current school is trying to phase out job-sharing, so I might not be in luck, there. But I used to teach in a community college before I moved to high school, and I''m fairly certain I could get a position as an adjunct if I wanted to go back. I REALLY loved that job, actually, so it would be a welcome change.

 

[Haven]

Date: 11/22/2008 3:06:34 PM
Author: Mrs Mitchell
[ . . . ] One thing about this discussion that I find interesting is that this is about SAHMs v working moms. What about fathers? [ . . . ] If you want to work and you want a SAHparent for your children, can you share the hours between you? It wouldn''t work for everyone, but just a suggestion.

I''m sad to think that people''s choices are judged and found wanting. We''re all doing the best we can for our children, but that needn''t be the same model for everyone. From what I know of the Mommies here on PS, there isn''t one of us who isn''t doing THE MOST AMAZING JOB of raising our kids. Haven, once you have your baby, maybe it will be clearer what you need to do. His/ her personality will be a big factor. Amelia will adore day care, when we took her to see it and check it out, she was really, really excited. If she had been upset by it, I would maybe make a different decision. Whatever you decide, there will be pros and cons, but your little one will thrive because s/he has a loving mommy!

Jen

Jen--You make a really good point about the fathers. DH and I have been talking about this, too, because he works for himself and has the flexibility to schedule his clients whenever he''d like. He probably only sees 25 to 30 clients in a week, anyway, and he''s with each client for one hour, so we could easily work out a schedule where he stays home two days a week while I work, or in the mornings while I teach a morning class or something. The best part is that he wouldn''t have to cut into his income, so it would mean extra money from my p/t job, which would be nice. He''s actually really interested in doing that, because he wants in on being with our future babies, too!

I think you''re absolutely right that the same model won''t work for everyone. And all I see here on PS are incredible moms, too. Ugh, now I really can''t wait to become a mom!

Thank you for your post, Mrs. M.!