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Misrepresented Stone. Should I Sue?

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mjgarris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
2
New to PS and seek advice. I bought an uncertified diamond on the internet with the following specifications.

Diamond Weight: 1.30 CT
Diamond Shape: Round
Diamond Color: H
Diamond Clarity: Si3-I1
MAKE/CUT: Ideal
SHINE/SPARKLE [1-10]: 10
SCINTILLATION/FIRE[1-10]: 10
FLUORESCENCE: None

I initially thought the stone looked ok. My fiancee and I took a diamond class from a certified gia gemologist with a degree in structural crystalogy. During the class, we looked at an 11 1.1 ct diamond under a 40x microscope and couldn''t help notice how much nicer this stone was then ours. Without telling the instructor what clarity the diamond I purchased was suppose to be, I ask her if she would look at it. After spend some time reviewing it she said with confidence it was an I3. I asked her how subjective the grading is, she said she would place her reputation that any of the major labs would all classify it as an I3. She said even EGL and then laughed. I guess an inside joke within the industry.

I contacted the seller with my findings. I wanted to believe that maybe this was an honest mistake and he shipped us the wrong diamond. This was not the case and he strongly stood my his assessment. He offered me a full refund which I do appreciate but I do not feel this is a satisfactory resolution. I contacted a lawyer friend and they said that I would have a very strong case for consumer fraud but lawsuits are expensive and never fun and recommended I take the refund. Isn''t this the assumption that the seller counts on to make money. Overstate a diamond and make money on the ignorant, break even on the less ignorant. I feel a moral obligation to make this seller pay and to prevent others from being ripped off. I have legal insurance from my work and contacted them regarding coverage. As long as the value of the suit exceeds max amount for small claims, I have full coverage at no cost.

I would appreciate any advice or feedback from the members of this forum.
-Matt
 

Noahsmom

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
228
I''m curious, is the vendor a PS vendor?
I think it would be best to take the refund. What you would spend in legal fees, and time is not worth it IMO.

I''m sure the vets around here will be more helpful. Just my .02.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Pretty much impossible to win.
It will come down to a costly battle between their expert and yours.
Because a full refund was offered it would likely get thrown out as most courts would consider a full refund a just settlement.
 

Rhea

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
6,294
I don''t know if you can or should sue. To me, that seems like a waste of time. Did the seller state which lab graded the diamond? Without this I don''t think that you''ll get very far. It could well be a IGI or EGL graded I1 and you''re going by GIA standards. Take the refund and shop again. Why spend time with an unnecessary lawsuit?
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Seriously, just take the refund. A court would throw this lawsuit out in 2 seconds if the seller offered a full refund for the item IMO.

Grading IS subjective...and by buying an uncertified stone you are buying Joe Schmoe''s idea of an I1 or whatever. Not GIA''s version of an I1.
 

Chelle0511

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
78
Oh goodness Matt! We are in the diamond buying process and you have me worried. Do you mid sharing who the online vendor was, and are they a PS vendor? Thank you!
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
29,570
Date: 2/21/2009 3:46:31 PM
Author: neatfreak
Seriously, just take the refund. A court would throw this lawsuit out in 2 seconds if the seller offered a full refund for the item IMO.

Grading IS subjective...and by buying an uncertified stone you are buying Joe Schmoe''s idea of an I1 or whatever. Not GIA''s version of an I1.
Ditto.

I am guessing you bought this on Ebay?
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Date: 2/21/2009 3:49:03 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Date: 2/21/2009 3:46:31 PM

Author: neatfreak

Seriously, just take the refund. A court would throw this lawsuit out in 2 seconds if the seller offered a full refund for the item IMO.


Grading IS subjective...and by buying an uncertified stone you are buying Joe Schmoe''s idea of an I1 or whatever. Not GIA''s version of an I1.
Ditto.


I am guessing you bought this on Ebay?
That is exactly what my guess was too.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,396
Date: 2/21/2009 3:37:29 PM
Author:mjgarris
New to PS and seek advice. I bought an uncertified diamond on the internet with the following specifications.

Diamond Weight: 1.30 CT
Diamond Shape: Round
Diamond Color: H
Diamond Clarity: Si3-I1
MAKE/CUT: Ideal
SHINE/SPARKLE [1-10]: 10
SCINTILLATION/FIRE[1-10]: 10
FLUORESCENCE: None

I initially thought the stone looked ok. My fiancee and I took a diamond class from a certified gia gemologist with a degree in structural crystalogy. During the class, we looked at an 11 1.1 ct diamond under a 40x microscope and couldn''t help notice how much nicer this stone was then ours. Without telling the instructor what clarity the diamond I purchased was suppose to be, I ask her if she would look at it. After spend some time reviewing it she said with confidence it was an I3. I asked her how subjective the grading is, she said she would place her reputation that any of the major labs would all classify it as an I3. She said even EGL and then laughed. I guess an inside joke within the industry.

I contacted the seller with my findings. I wanted to believe that maybe this was an honest mistake and he shipped us the wrong diamond. This was not the case and he strongly stood my his assessment. He offered me a full refund which I do appreciate but I do not feel this is a satisfactory resolution. I contacted a lawyer friend and they said that I would have a very strong case for consumer fraud but lawsuits are expensive and never fun and recommended I take the refund. Isn''t this the assumption that the seller counts on to make money. Overstate a diamond and make money on the ignorant, break even on the less ignorant. I feel a moral obligation to make this seller pay and to prevent others from being ripped off. I have legal insurance from my work and contacted them regarding coverage. As long as the value of the suit exceeds max amount for small claims, I have full coverage at no cost.

I would appreciate any advice or feedback from the members of this forum.
-Matt
no such grade according to GIA.

take the refund offer and forget the law sue.

how much did you paid for this stone?
 

Po10472

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
1,443
Take the refund, you''ve learnt the lesson, move on and buy elsewhere from those who are selling certified diamonds.

There are a few reputable sellers on Ebay but on the whole its con artists praying on the uneducated diamond buyer so I would avoid if I can help it unless you know who these people are.
 

lyra

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
5,141
At this point, you are lucky you are being offered a full refund. Take it and run! Easy and simple. Then come back here and get help to find the best possible stone for your budget. We really like helping people. Please do come back and share.
 

oneandahalfrock

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
353
Take the refund and move on- you should be glad that he''s offering that, I can''t tell you how many times people were up the creek without a paddle in these situations.
Consider this a second chance to do some shopping- and much luck! :D
BTW, do you mind if we asked how much you paid for the stone? Perhaps we can start making some suggestions within your budget! :D
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
11,065
If it is uncerted , technically isn''t it NOT misrepresented? Isn''t just someone''s guess on the specs? Never heard of a 1-10 scale of fire and scintillation. I say you are lucky to be offered a refund. Take it and run.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,427
Date: 2/21/2009 3:53:18 PM
Author: lyra
At this point, you are lucky you are being offered a full refund. Take it and run! Easy and simple. Then come back here and get help to find the best possible stone for your budget. We really like helping people. Please do come back and share.
Absolutely. Be very, very happy, and move on.
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
Ditto, being litigious will get you nada. Not even the satisfaction of being "in the right".

If this was an eBay purchase (my guess) then read the fine print. I'm going to further guess that the auction says something about "gross misrepresentation" and goes on to state that a gross misrepresentation is defined as being more than two grades off in color or clarity. That's what the majority of eBay seller's state in their auctions. It covers quite a bit. Thus I1 = I3.


Unless you overpaid, a 1.30 I1 should be under the small claims value in most courts anyway.
 

Lulie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
342
Still I clarity, hard to fight, take the refund and run .02
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
12,578
I am wondering why you would want to sue. Its not like you haven''t been offered a full refund. What would you like the seller to do? Compensate you further?
 

Kelli

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
5,455
Date: 2/21/2009 4:42:30 PM
Author: coatimundi
You bought an UNcerted I1?? Take the refund, and be glad they offered you that.
Ditto.
 

ejv207

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
33
You will most likely would end up in small claims court, unless you paid a significant amount for this stone (most likely not). Is this seller in the same state even? Your lawyer friend and everyone on this board is advising you to take the full refund because the time and money spent on a lawsuit would be wasteful. You would do more good by complaining to the BBB, or your state's Division of Consumer Affairs (who would probably stop their efforts once they hear from the seller that you are getting a full refund)

I think the lesson here is to stay away from uncertified stones if you're trying to buy on the internet.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,807
What misrepresentation? They graded the stone using their own grading scale and you’re done nothing at all to suggest that they’ve applied it incorrectly. (hint: The scale used by GIA and taught in their classes doesn’t even HAVE an SI3 clarity grade and there’s no scale at all for shine or fire. GIA simply doesn't apply here). For all you know a sugar cube may be a 10 on their sparkle scale. I can only guess what 'ideal' means to them but this also doesn't appear on any GIA scale.

Take the refund and count yourself as having dodged a bullet.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
21,031
HI:

Above what you've already been offered (refund), what would you hope to gain by taking legal action? My feeling is it would come to nothing. Lesson learned: there is no shame in that.

cheers--Sharon
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,616
Take the refund. There is nothing punitive that you can do that would have much effect on this seller. Getting your money back in full is more than good enough.
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,563
Date: 2/21/2009 6:32:57 PM
Author: denverappraiser

For all you know a sugar cube may be a 10 on their sparkle scale.
I like it when Neil comes out to play.
 
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