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Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers etc

Panhandler80

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
19
Okay, so I have a somewhat sticky situation on my hands. PLEASE don't lecture me on what I should have done. Trust me, I'm beating myself up enough as it is... seriously.

Under no circumstances will I reveal the name of the person I'm dealing with. I have not been able to find any mention of the seller's name on this forum, so those of you who do sell and post here, you are not the person I'm talking about. I want to be clear up front about that so as not to inpune anybody who does not deserve it.

Below is my story... I'm just not sure what to do about it now. My guess is sit tight and hope for the best.

Pretty sure I just got the ulitimate bait and switch from a seller... now what? Does it really matter? Not the biggest deal in world because IF all goes as planned, I'm still getting a fair to good deal. Only problem is, I have confirmed that the seller is not honest and I'm a little freaked out now.

The person is in the US, but not near me.

I was talking with seller about a diamond that seller had posted online. GIA with Cert, specs looked good, price great (compared to new, not to for sale by owners... but jewerly shops gobble them up before I can ever get to em!) etc. We are in process of talking settings, how to do money, etc. All is looking good. Then over the weekend a week and a half ago, seller sold it out from under me. On the phone seller initally said that sold diamond was not the most perfect cut, if you're looking for a ideal cut, you need to loose some weight and we'll keep color, clarity and price about the same. Well seller sells the initial diamond and low and behold seller just happens to have one that is in fact smaller, better cut and a bit more money, but better proportioned etc. I am considering this one, and then seller pushes me on the new one. Starts refering to a June 17th 2011 DeBeers price hike that I can't find any chatter about, that the new diamond I'm considering would have been at least another $600 to seller had seller not talked his supplier into honoring pre-price June 17th 2011 price hike prices, that seller has other people lined up for this new smaller and more expensive diamond (mind you, seller didn't let me know that initial diamond had other prospective buyers)... so seller pushes this new one hard.

Well, I bit. Yesterday I wired seller the money.

Money hit sellers account yesterday afternoon (please don't lecture me. I'm freaked out enough as it is. I researched the seller and found nothing bad about seller online, found where seller's two businesses are registred with state they are in, confirmed by voice recognition on youtube and our phone conversations, as well as some phone number tracking that person I was talking to is the person found on the internet.). So money hits sellers account yesterday and VOILA! The original (and supposedly sold) diamond his the internet again.

I had a friend from a different state halfway across the country call the seller this morning about the ad that hit the internet last night. Seller tells my friend it's available and gives my friend the same story I got about the history on the diamond, etc.

I call seller to ask if my funds have showed up in sellers acount, because they AIN'T IN MINE ANY MORE! Seller said it showed pending, but that seller was sure it would show up soon. Told seller great, just want to make sure you have money so we can wrap this up. While I have you, I say to seller.... I noticed that last night the orignal diamond you and I talked about is online again, what's the deal? I think I might rather have that one at the price posted last night (which was actually a couple hundred dollars more than it was the first time I saw it). Seller responded (which I would be the response)... my assistant doesn't always know which ones to post and which ones are gone.

Mind you, 10 minutes earlier, seller told my friend that it was available. I bit my tongue.

So, at the very least seller is dishonest. Not sure why seller is being dishonest, but seller is. Mabye seller is making a killing on the diamond I commited to and the initial diamond had deal fall through. Still, it's killing me to know that a dishonest person has almost my entire bank ancout and I have nothing. Now what?

Looks to me like seller's assistant (or seller) posts freakin' BAIT just to get you to call. I thought this might have been the case then, but I pretty much know now. When orignal diamond vanished, I even told my girlfriend that it coudl ahve just been a "come-on" to get you to call.

So here I sit...

Like I said, I have to play my cards carefully because

1. I still want a good ring (seller is going to polish down the rough casting that I picked out to a thinner width, seller is going to plate it, mount the 3 point side stones... all of which are better quality than you'll find on most websites, lots of local shops and all Kay / Jerad's / etc places, mount my center stone, blah blah)

2. For what I'm getting (if it all goes down like planned... which I'm worried about now) sellers price is still fair. I'm getting a bit of deal and seller is making money. I'd estimate that I'd pay 30-40% more at my local high-end jewlery place here, and 20% more at a Blue Nile type deal. That's also just dollars. Does not account for better quality sidestones and a thicker plating that seller is going to do.

3. Most importantly - dishonest seller has my moeny.

So... it's a matter of curiousity as much as anything else. I now know that the intial ad was just bait. I don't want to drag sellers name through the mud and don't plan on it. I don't want to accuse seller to his face in case I'm missing something, I want him to like me... tick seller off and seller might not do the job that seller is capable of, etc. BUT... I'm nervous as a freakin' cat now! And it's not my fault.

Not much I can really do about it at this point... seller has my money and I don't want to tick him off between now and when I get the ring. I just can't believe I fell for seller's "1. Sold it out from under ya. 2. Price hike. 3. Better buy this one now. 4. Get my money. 5. Find a new bait and switch sucker." When seller sold the original one, my girlfriend was pretty ticket because that was the diamond she wanted. I told her then that there might have never even been one and that's just his way of getting people on the line. Guess I was right and I new it at the time... to have seller lie to me over phone after all our conversations and emails really brought me down just now, though.

And, GF is the one that found the sellers re-post of the add last night. So, she's wanting me to get to the bottom of it, or move on and find a ring elswhere. It's very tough hearing her bad-bouth the seller and the operation... seeing as I'm trying to surprise her. After months of searching, she found a much better ring last night. She's showing me that and I'm just dying inside because seller has my $$$$ and I can't even tell her to quit with the searching.

Suggestions?

EDIT: I believe that I'm still going to get a ring adn the diamond. I'm just nervous now because obviously the seller is not of the utmost character. I'm not even all that concerned with the bait-and-switch... it happens everywhere, just having seller tell buddy oen tihng and then me another minutes later burns me up. Fact that seller is even ABLE to do that makes me really question seller's character and integrity and seller's estimation of my intelligence. At least say "original diamond came back yesterday. Like I told you, I'll always take it back if she's not happy with it." Nope, instead, the stupidity and arrogance of the seller prompts him to just LIE about it to me, or to my friend... either way it doesn't matter.

At the VERY least, I'm going to have it shipped directly to a jeweler so that I can have a witness when I open the package and jeweler can confirm what kind of diamond is in it. I'd hate to have this seller send me a POS diamond, and then claim that I swapped them out and pocketed the good one. But heck, what if the new-hire at the jewelry store signs a bogus name and puts the package in his truck!?

Starting to wish I'd just paid the premium and delt locally. Really really really am.

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

ONE MORE EDIT: As long as things go as planned, I will NEVER reveal the seller's name or the seller's business. ONE THING GOES SIDEWAYS though, and I promise... not onl will seller have a legal battle on seller's hands like seller won't believe, but I will make it my daily objective to litter this board and every board with every last ounce of seller's contact info and business information.

I REALLY REALLY REALLY don't want to do that. Honestly.
 

nfowife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
544
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Well first of all, you have already stated this seller has shown you through his actions that he is not being honest with you. How do you know that you will get the things he has promised you- better quality sidestones, etc. He's already shown you he is not a jeweler with integrity.

Can you get your money back?

In your position, I would call seller, tell him I've had a change of heart about the stone, request a full refund, and go with another jeweler. This should not be a highly stressful process. You are buying something wonderful for the person you love. It should be joyful. If you can't trust your jeweler- if he has shown you through his ACTIONS that he can't be trusted- then money talks, baby. Take yours elsewhere.
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

nfowife|1309378612|2958281 said:
Well first of all, you have already stated this seller has shown you through his actions that he is not being honest with you. How do you know that you will get the things he has promised you- better quality sidestones, etc. He's already shown you he is not a jeweler with integrity.

Can you get your money back?

In your position, I would call seller, tell him I've had a change of heart about the stone, request a full refund, and go with another jeweler. This should not be a highly stressful process. You are buying something wonderful for the person you love. It should be joyful. If you can't trust your jeweler- if he has shown you through his ACTIONS that he can't be trusted- then money talks, baby. Take yours elsewhere.

I completely agree! It should be a very simple process to cancel the transacation, you'll see in the link that was posted that your bank can do this for you! Your going to be a wreck through the entire process if you don't. And now how can you trust him to mount the stones you think that your getting? No, I would bail on this deal, otherwise you'll end up with more problems when the ring is complete and you find out what you bought isn't what you got! Keep us posted!
 

AnneinGA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
403
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Panhandler,
I agree. See if you can get your money back. If you get absolutely any issue with it, I would inform them outright about the friend that called with interest in the same stone and ask them what the deal is. Hopefully that will get them to pony up the refund. If they'll bait and switch online, you do not want to get into a situation where you worry that the diamond they set is not the diamond you purchased. And if you can't do anything at all and have to stick with what you have, ship to an independent appraiser not a jeweler. Good luck.
 

Panhandler80

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
19
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

I'm so tired of looking, though. Really want to be done.

Seller says that GIA Cert numuber is inscribed on girdle and he's going to send the orignal GIA... this should clear a lot up once (hopefully) it's in my posession and I get it to an indepedent appraiser. Can't they search the cert number on the diamond and make sure what's in a database somewhere is congruent with the paper in my hand?

I'm not making excuses here, but I really don't mind the "bait-and-switch" in and of itself. It's what the technique represents.

I thought about being honest and up front with the seller. You know, simply calling and saying "Can you tell me why you told my friend that the original diamond is available, but told me a different story?"

I just don't know what good comes out of that. If it was just a harmless marketing techinque I can get over THAT, but is the seller lying all over the place.

I think if I go "can you tell me why..." route with seller, I need to just go ahead and ask for my money back.

UGH........

:confused:

So tired. If only she hadn't found that re-post that popped up last night. Answering her questions right now is difficult too because she knew i was talking with seller, but has no idea that i sent the money yesterday. She's wanting me to do more / get answers etc, and I can't because I still want to suprise her.
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Panhandler80|1309380034|2958300 said:
I'm so tired of looking, though. Really want to be done.

Seller says that GIA Cert numuber is inscribed on girdle and he's going to send the orignal GIA... this should clear a lot up once (hopefully) it's in my posession and I get it to an indepedent appraiser. Can't they search the cert number on the diamond and make sure what's in a database somewhere is congruent with the paper in my hand?

I'm not making excuses here, but I really don't mind the "bait-and-switch" in and of itself. It's what the technique represents.

I thought about being honest and up front with the seller. You know, simply calling and saying "Can you tell me why you told my friend that the original diamond is available, but told me a different story?"

I just don't know what good comes out of that. If it was just a harmless marketing techinque I can get over THAT, but is the seller lying all over the place.

I think if I go "can you tell me why..." route with seller, I need to just go ahead and ask for my money back.

UGH........

:confused:

So tired. If only she hadn't found that re-post that popped up last night. Answering her questions right now is difficult too because she knew i was talking with seller, but has no idea that i sent the money yesterday. She's wanting me to do more / get answers etc, and I can't because I still want to suprise her.

understand that your tired of shopping, I get that, but if she found a ring that she adores and assuming its with a reputable jeweler, why not just cancel the transacation and go with the ring that she fell in love with? Either way it will still be a surprise and you will know up front that the ring your buying and what she really wants is one and the same.

IMO if you sit back and wait to long, your going to be stuck doing this deal, it will be alot easier to get out of now then it will be if he pulls some dishonest tactic in the future. Me? I wouldn't want that sort of stress, I'd cancel and go another route. If your uncomfortable with dealing with him and putting him on the spot, would you consider having someone close to you act on your behalf? I'm a wreck for you just reading this! :errrr:
 

Circe

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
8,087
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Dude. You want the dealer to "like" you? This is ... not a big priority in business.

You know he's dishonest, you can't trust anything he says from this point out, and it sounds like you're going to have to install triple-redundancy to minimize the ways in which he can screw you from here on out. Not worth it.

Tell him you found the repost and don't like his business practices, request a refund, and move on. Why let the memory of being steam-rolled and cheated taint your proposal?
 

Thebishop07

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
23
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

This post really concerns me as I am very close to purchasing exactly what I have been looking for. I am really really curious as to who the dealer is and what type of precautions I can take to ensure I won't have to worry about a bait and switch. It is so difficult to make these large transactions online without having a bit of worry. If anyone has tips to prevent this from happening, please let me know! How can you guaranteee the diamond/ring you are purchasing will be the one you want when you purchase via wire transfer?
 

nfowife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
544
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Thebishop07|1309382993|2958348 said:
This post really concerns me as I am very close to purchasing exactly what I have been looking for. I am really really curious as to who the dealer is and what type of precautions I can take to ensure I won't have to worry about a bait and switch. It is so difficult to make these large transactions online without having a bit of worry. If anyone has tips to prevent this from happening, please let me know! How can you guaranteee the diamond/ring you are purchasing will be the one you want when you purchase via wire transfer?

You do your research and choose a vendor who is recommended time and again for being honest, fair, and has excellent customer service. If you research here you will see the same vendors mentioned over and over- there's a reason for that.
 

Lula

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
4,544
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

My advice -- call your bank ASAP and cancel the wire transfer. You don't owe this seller your business and he certainly hasn't earned it. Step back; take a few days' break from shopping. Post your budget and desired specifications here, and we can help you find something from an honest vendor within your budget. In my experience, these types of situations tend to get worse, not better, as the transaction proceeds, so get out early!
 

scepture

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
88
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Thebishop07|1309382993|2958348 said:
This post really concerns me as I am very close to purchasing exactly what I have been looking for. I am really really curious as to who the dealer is and what type of precautions I can take to ensure I won't have to worry about a bait and switch. It is so difficult to make these large transactions online without having a bit of worry. If anyone has tips to prevent this from happening, please let me know! How can you guaranteee the diamond/ring you are purchasing will be the one you want when you purchase via wire transfer?

This is the million dollar question. I am in the process of looking (and have been for quite some time), and this is something that scares me as well. There is never (with very few exceptions) a real 'steal of a deal' when it comes to diamonds. Unless you are buying from a private party, the jeweler will know what the diamond is worth and charge accordingly. If s/he has a 1.5ct D VVS2 GIA excellent with H&A, they are not going to 'give you a deal' and give it to you for $5,000. WHY would they? From their shoes, if it was actually that good of a diamond, they would have no problem bumping the price up significantly and still selling the diamond. If they did, I would imagine they wouldn't be in business for very long! There is a markup in every transaction, and you have to think of that accordingly.

Although I am speaking for myself, I think almost everyone who looks into buying a diamond initially looks for the 'find of a century' deal. I remember when I first started looking I was 2 minutes away from pulling the trigger on a non certified diamond because it looked like it was such a good deal compared to even others that I found online. However, with help from places like pricescope, you start to read other's stories and experiences about what to do and look for, and unfortunately, what not to do and what you should not buy.

While many are hesitant when I tell them the process of looking online for diamonds, I think I have learned and know far more about diamonds and grading that I would have ever known had I just walked into a B&M store and blindly listened to the salesperson. Are there deals that are somewhat 'better' than others? Yes. However, there is a cost associated with the risk you're willing to take on. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have found nice stones on Ebay, but I would venture to guess that there are plenty of others who have gotten completely hosed also.

If you want to be 'safe' (or at least safer) when you're buying online, buy from a website/company that has a reputation for strong customer support and a no questions asked return period. The ones that are often mentioned (Brian Gavin, GOG, Whiteflash, James Allen) have a long history of outstanding customer service on here, and have a great incentive to continue to give that level of service (e.g., me referring you to one of them now).

While I think we all want 'that deal of a lifetime', I think the piece of mind of knowing exactly what you're getting at a FAIR price should be the ultimate goal. You may pay a little bit more, but I would certainly sacrifice a few tenths of a carat to know that if there was ever a problem or an issue I could immediately get help and solve the situation. Hope that helps!
 

dmd4ever

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
102
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

bigdiamondtinygal|1309378046|2958276 said:
I feel for you. I'm the guy in the other thread and I know how much it sucks to go through something like this. My best advice is do what you can as soon as you can to get out now. This sounds like a situation that can only get worse, and for me any savings would not be worth it for the frustration and anxiety, even if all went well. Talk to your bank, talk to him, see if you can cancel the deal and then go through one of the vendors with good reputations on this forum... Good luck!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,805
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Under no circumstance would I tell him you think he is dishonest and then ask for your money back!!!!! Making him mad is not going to help you!!! You need to immediately call him and tell him your girlfriend found another ring locally not knowing you had wired the money and you want to cancel. Does he have his return policy on his site? if not, you are probably stuck. But I'd cancel no matter how tired you are. It is easy to click on "reserve" at WF, GOG, or Brian Gavin. There are hundreds of positive testimonials on those vendors.
 

SFGuy

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2011
Messages
27
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Circe|1309382273|2958329 said:
Dude. You want the dealer to "like" you? This is ... not a big priority in business.
While this is true, and ideally one tries to avoid this type of emotion during negotiations, it's often not possible. In fact, playing on that very desire (for the person on the other side of the table to like you) is a key sales tactic in many industries.

So, strive to not care about being liked, but don't feel awful for thinking about it. It is human nature.
 

lbling

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
40
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

I agree with everyone on this forum! Get out and get out now. This seller has done nothing to earn your trust. The "bait and switch" method of getting business is dishonest in itself, therefore this seller has been dishonest from the start. If it was me, and I am a cynic, I would have told him where he could put his "replacement" diamond if he sold the one I wanted out from under me and moved on and taken my business somewhere else. This is the most important time for you and for a buyer you need to feel comforted and reassured. For instance, I am currently having my e-ring and wedder made as I lost my origninals, I constantly call my jeweller in a state of massive anxiety regarding diamond choice, even though I know the diamond I have seen is of superior quality and the design of the ring, she calms me and reassures me that the craftsman is the best and his quality is second to none and that I will be really happy when I pick up my rings. This is what a good seller should do, NOT force a diamond that you are unsure about claiming price rises. This is just dodgy!

I say get your money back and start again. Excel diamonds, Engagement Rings Direct, Whiteflash and James Allen to name a few have massive rave reviews on this website from many many happy customers. This is what you want to see not posts of men who are trying to make a big financial commitment and a commitment to the women they love freaking out because a seller is dodgy. This should be a smooth transaction where you come out feeling reassured and comforted that you have gotten the best quality for you budget.
 

lbling

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
40
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

scepture|1309386451|2958382 said:
Thebishop07|1309382993|2958348 said:
This post really concerns me as I am very close to purchasing exactly what I have been looking for. I am really really curious as to who the dealer is and what type of precautions I can take to ensure I won't have to worry about a bait and switch. It is so difficult to make these large transactions online without having a bit of worry. If anyone has tips to prevent this from happening, please let me know! How can you guaranteee the diamond/ring you are purchasing will be the one you want when you purchase via wire transfer?

This is the million dollar question. I am in the process of looking (and have been for quite some time), and this is something that scares me as well. There is never (with very few exceptions) a real 'steal of a deal' when it comes to diamonds. Unless you are buying from a private party, the jeweler will know what the diamond is worth and charge accordingly. If s/he has a 1.5ct D VVS2 GIA excellent with H&A, they are not going to 'give you a deal' and give it to you for $5,000. WHY would they? From their shoes, if it was actually that good of a diamond, they would have no problem bumping the price up significantly and still selling the diamond. If they did, I would imagine they wouldn't be in business for very long! There is a markup in every transaction, and you have to think of that accordingly.

Although I am speaking for myself, I think almost everyone who looks into buying a diamond initially looks for the 'find of a century' deal. I remember when I first started looking I was 2 minutes away from pulling the trigger on a non certified diamond because it looked like it was such a good deal compared to even others that I found online. However, with help from places like pricescope, you start to read other's stories and experiences about what to do and look for, and unfortunately, what not to do and what you should not buy.


While many are hesitant when I tell them the process of looking online for diamonds, I think I have learned and know far more about diamonds and grading that I would have ever known had I just walked into a B&M store and blindly listened to the salesperson. Are there deals that are somewhat 'better' than others? Yes. However, there is a cost associated with the risk you're willing to take on. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have found nice stones on Ebay, but I would venture to guess that there are plenty of others who have gotten completely hosed also.

If you want to be 'safe' (or at least safer) when you're buying online, buy from a website/company that has a reputation for strong customer support and a no questions asked return period. The ones that are often mentioned (Brian Gavin, GOG, Whiteflash, James Allen) have a long history of outstanding customer service on here, and have a great incentive to continue to give that level of service (e.g., me referring you to one of them now).

While I think we all want 'that deal of a lifetime', I think the piece of mind of knowing exactly what you're getting at a FAIR price should be the ultimate goal. You may pay a little bit more, but I would certainly sacrifice a few tenths of a carat to know that if there was ever a problem or an issue I could immediately get help and solve the situation. Hope that helps!

Here, here. I think you have made an excleent point!
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
11,608
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Thebishop07|1309382993|2958348 said:
This post really concerns me as I am very close to purchasing exactly what I have been looking for. I am really really curious as to who the dealer is and what type of precautions I can take to ensure I won't have to worry about a bait and switch. It is so difficult to make these large transactions online without having a bit of worry. If anyone has tips to prevent this from happening, please let me know! How can you guaranteee the diamond/ring you are purchasing will be the one you want when you purchase via wire transfer?
Only buy from a well-known, trusted PS vendor with an excellent reputation. That's how you can guarantee it.
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

I would actually just ask you to post:

1) The GIA certed diamond specs, 4Cs, Angles, Image of diamond if you have one
2) The price you paid for the stone
3) How much you paid for the setting

The forum can then decide if you acquitted yourself decently well. If the diamond shows up as inscribed on the cert, and is within the price threshold, and you researched and feel comfortable that the diamond is going to make your SO happy, I don't see why it matters.

At most you end up with a screwed up setting, and less of a deal than you thought you had.

If there is open fraud, that's different. Initially I was afraid that you purchased a particular stone and he switched it on you without your knowledge.
 

Panhandler80

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
19
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

TristanC|1309400993|2958626 said:
I would actually just ask you to post:

1) The GIA certed diamond specs, 4Cs, Angles, Image of diamond if you have one
2) The price you paid for the stone
3) How much you paid for the setting

The forum can then decide if you acquitted yourself decently well. If the diamond shows up as inscribed on the cert, and is within the price threshold, and you researched and feel comfortable that the diamond is going to make your SO happy, I don't see why it matters.

At most you end up with a screwed up setting, and less of a deal than you thought you had.

If there is open fraud, that's different. Initially I was afraid that you purchased a particular stone and he switched it on you without your knowledge.
GIA Cert is from April, 2010
1.19 Carat
Excellent Cut / VG Polish / EX Symetyr
6.79 x 6.82 x 4.21
3.5% faceted girdle
58% Table
35 degree crown
41.2 pavillion
F color
SI2 (eye clean according to seller. a black spot cyrstal at very edge of table. visibile with 10x, then with loop if you then know where to look. other inclusions are very small in line crystals lines total that are straiht line [not V's' from the perimiter straight towards the center of the stone)
Florescence - faint (seller says no hint of it in beaming sun outside..)

Diamdond was $7,200

Setting:
Set into a 14K white Gold ring with 14 R/BR 3 point diamonds... .42cts t.w., E/F-VS ideal cuts
Seller gets rough casting is going to polish, plate and set his diamonds personally. SAYS that side diamonds will have far more fire than what you usually find on the small diamonds.

Setting $925

------------------

Total price $8,125

Not exactly a steal I know, but certainly better than my B&M guy here. He wanted $8k for an EGL-USA (a new cert at least) with same basic specs, but 4% girdle, and no fluoresence at 1.08 carat. I don't have the exact measurements for that one. Would have spent at least another $1,500 with him, and it would have been in a "Chevy / Toyota / etc" setting. I don't think $8,125 is THE best deal in the world... but if the setting is truly well done at $925, maybe that will make up for some of it. Maybe?

I did not mean that I want the seller to actually "like" me. I just meant that if I decide to let it ride and hope for the best, there is no point in me calling seller out on the bait and switch. At least I don't see one.

Seller confirmed yesterday that dollars are in seller's account. I think my course of action right now (at $8,125 and me wanting it to be done) is to just keep my mouth shut, let seller go about baiting other folks and hope for the best. I have an independent appraisal guy lined up, and I will probably seek a second one after that. If things down pan out, then I'm going to go back to the seller guns-a-blazin a request the my funds are returned.

Approach:

1. Confirmed dishonesty with either me or my friend... doesn't matter wich.
2. Evaluation from appraiser doesn't match (isn't even close) to what's on paper / what was conveyed to me
3. I have free legal representation in my state and seller's
4. I have written acknoledgement that seller has my funds
5. I would like my funds back.
6. This thread (and the promise of many more like it) is emailed to seller without seller's info anywhere on it
7. Seller is told that I get my funds back and this thread is deleted.

I don't get my funds back... Well, in addition to this thread, there will be many many many more like it with all of seller's information; including emails (from friend, from seller outlining return policy), conflicting independent evaluation of diamond and seller's posted specs, etc. Seller's whole business is online. Right now seller's name is squaky clean online... which is one of the reasons I went through with this. Surely seller wants to keep internet reputation this way.

I hope I get the diamond and LOVE it. I want this to be wrapped up and I'll instantly delete this thread. I'm chalking it up right now to a decent seller just using some shady marketing techniques. I've seen other good people do such things in different industries. I wouldn't, but after sleeping on it, for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

If all does go as planned, I will thank the seller for the wonderful diamond and then tell seller that I found it EXTREMELY unnerving when seller was dishonest about the ORIGINAL diamond, whether it was with me, or my friend and I will polietely recommend that seller not insult the buyer's intelligence. I would have been WAY WAY WAY happier if yeterday the seller had said to me, "Well, I'll level with you. I never really had the original diamond. I just use it as a lead generator. Things have been kind of slow and I just have to do whatever it takes. Will you accept my appology? Let me take $200 off the ring purchase, or I can return your money. I really am sorry and embarrased." I mean heck! I called the seller MINUTES after seller had hung up the phone with my buddy. You think he might have put two and two together and come clean.
 

Panhandler80

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
19
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Decent price if all goes well, or not?

PH80
 

swingirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
5,655
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Depth? Do you have the percentage of the stone's depth off the certificate?
 

acebruin

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
677
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

wait after all that you said... you STILL want to get a ring from this crook? i don't know how you can let a dishonest dealer still MAKE you a ring for your future bride... trust has to be earned, and with a lot of money at stake you're STILL giving him the benefit of the doubt that you will get the ring that you want?

c'mon man... GET OUT NOW... RUN not walk, but RUN away and ask for your money back period...

it seems like you have 2 choices here...

#1 ask for your money back and look elsewhere...
#2 you stick with this guy and get your ring made with this guy... and if things go wrong, do not complain because you could have run with your money NOW at the first sign of red flag!

sigh....
 

maplefemme

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
874
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

"I would have been WAY WAY WAY happier if yeterday the seller had said to me, "Well, I'll level with you. I never really had the original diamond. I just use it as a lead generator. Things have been kind of slow and I just have to do whatever it takes. Will you accept my appology? Let me take $200 off the ring purchase, or I can return your money. I really am sorry and embarrased." I mean heck! I called the seller MINUTES after seller had hung up the phone with my buddy. You think he might have put two and two together and come clean."

He would never do this. Attempting to sell you a diamond that doesn't exist isn't even a civil case, the Feds would prosecute and it's a serious fraud offense.
Does he have a return policy? Is it in writing? Because if he doesn't, and that carbon spot turns out to be visible to you and/or your girl "eyeclean" is subjective, I don't think you'd stand a chance, legally, of getting your money back if he doesn't have a return policy.
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028

Panhandler80

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
19
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

swingirl|1309459502|2959264 said:
Depth? Do you have the percentage of the stone's depth off the certificate?
Yeah, 6.79 x 6.82 x 4.21... or 61.9%
 

Panhandler80

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
19
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Christina...|1309462928|2959318 said:
to be honest, I think you got a very average deal, and a HUGE headache thrown in for free.

I couldn't find the exact same specs as yours but this was just from a quick search...

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1389615.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/White-Gold-2-1mm-French-Cut-Pave-Engagement-Ring.html

I'd bail and the sooner the better......
That diamond is certainly interesting. Cut was VG as opposed to EX. Heck of price, though a. Hmmm. Price difference between the two would have allowed me to buy something nice for MYSELF this year. :appl:
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Panhandler80|1309463757|2959334 said:
Christina...|1309462928|2959318 said:
to be honest, I think you got a very average deal, and a HUGE headache thrown in for free.

I couldn't find the exact same specs as yours but this was just from a quick search...

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1389615.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/White-Gold-2-1mm-French-Cut-Pave-Engagement-Ring.html

I'd bail and the sooner the better......
That diamond is certainly interesting. Cut was VG as opposed to EX. Heck of price, though a. Hmmm. Price difference between the two would have allowed me to buy something nice for MYSELF this year. :appl:
haha I didn't take a real look at the numbers or run through HCA or anything on yours or on this one, I was just trying to give you an idea of what was out there for price. I have no idea how the quality of this stone compares to the one that you have under contract. But I agree it's always nice to save some money, especially with a wedding comming up! :naughty: But seriously, if you decide to pull the plug on your deal, let us know and I'll really put an effort into finding you something comparable with a reputable dealer. I know that your tired, buy hey, we will do all the work and you just yah or nay them as we show them to you, how much simpler do you want it?? :D

actually i just went back and took a real look at that stone (JA), and stay away from it, it has feathers close to the girdle, could have structural issues down the road. but really if you want us to take a look...
 

Panhandler80

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
19
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Well, I certainly appreciate it. This will be the first place I come if I need to. If that's the case, it will be in about a week or so and my money will be burning a hole in my pants!

I've been at this hard since about early May, and while I don't necessarily learn something new every day, at the very least I do discover something each day... this website for example. Would have loved to spent some more time on here earlier on.

I did see that circular inclusion fairly close to and parallel to the girdle. Who knows, though. Could last forever and I would have saved $1k.

It just stinks that I discovered the bait and switch. Almost wish I hadn't confirmed it with the buddy call... ignorance is bliss right?

Reason I say this, is because the my seller HAS been prompt, seller HAS dealt with a VERY particular buyer, seller HAS looked at other certs for me and given seller's best estimation of where diamond might excell or have issues, seller HAS had hands on diamond I bought and personally looked at, seller HAS been in business for long time and actually has cutting experience (I confrimed thtis), and seller did give me a FAIR price...

IF

All seller says is true... that's all. Seller's whole business is online and there's nothing negative about seller anywhere that I can find.

I'm burrying my head in the sand at this point and writing off the sketchy marketing technique.

If and when the ring is in my posession, and to my liking, I am going to bring it up with sell,though. Just to ask why. Just sheer curiousity. We're all adults here. Most people know about what an idividual new diamond is worth at retail. I have a certain amount of money to spend. You want a certain amount of money. SO... what do you have, and how much? If it works great, if it doesn't... one of us goes up or down, or we both walk away. Not complicated.

It's not like the first diamond was INSANELY cheap. Had it been, I wouldn't have called. It was just cheap enough to be at the very very cheap end of believable... AKA: Bait. So, who calls this seller? Not pie-in-the-sky dreamers wanting a diamond for 20% of what they pay elsewhere... rather, seller gets folks who have done their homework and are ready to make a move. An effective strategy yes, but certainly not honest, and I am very suprised that it has not bit seller on the butt yet!

Of course... it still may.
 

Lula

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
4,544
Re: Mild Panic - Need input from diamond dealers / brokers e

Panhandler80|1309470130|2959407 said:
It's not like the first diamond was INSANELY cheap. Had it been, I wouldn't have called. It was just cheap enough to be at the very very cheap end of believable... AKA: Bait. So, who calls this seller? Not pie-in-the-sky dreamers wanting a diamond for 20% of what they pay elsewhere... rather, seller gets folks who have done their homework and are ready to make a move. An effective strategy yes, but certainly not honest, and I am very suprised that it has not bit seller on the butt yet!

Of course... it still may.
From my experience over the past several years, reading many threads similar to this, it is usually the consumer who gets bitten in the butt. No doubt this diamond seller has been at this game longer than you've been alive. I don't mean to be harsh, and I hope, for your sake, that I'm wrong. But my advice earlier in this thread still stands -- get a full refund while you can. This guy hasn't earned your trust -- and nothing you've written since your first post has changed my mind about that. This is the kind of "good deal" that typically ends up costing more in the end.
 
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